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Overwatch |OT9| There is no Cow Hero

M

MartyStu

Member
Chance said:
I agree that more utility would be good and make her more fun and interesting to play as, with and against, but the fact that Res 1.0 was almost-always-but-not-quite-always a death sentence was a big problem that I'm glad is fixed.
Click to expand...

In all fairness, several Ults are effective death sentences: Pharah, Reaper, and McCree being the biggest offenders.

I actually liked the fact that Rez required some sharp decision making in order to have value. Now that is less so.

Backlogger said:
That is awesome, but make sure your healers are competent too
Click to expand...

That is more a "make sure your healer is Ana" thing.
 
S

Stallion Dan

Member
2 KOTH rounds we lose while I try tell people 4 DPS too much, third round they switch, we win 2 rounds...And final round it back to DPS and we lose.
 
T

Terareflection

Member
MartyStu said:
In all fairness, several Ults are effective death sentences: Pharah, Reaper, and McCree being the biggest offenders.

I actually liked the fact that Rez required some sharp decision making in order to have value. Now that is less so.



That is more a "make sure your healer is Ana" thing.
Click to expand...
Rez requires just as much decision making as it used to before the buff, now you choose whether to save yourself or save the team.
 
U

UltimaPooh

Member
MartyStu said:
In all fairness, several Ults are effective death sentences: Pharah, Reaper, and McCree being the biggest offenders.

I actually liked the fact that Rez required some sharp decision making in order to have value. Now that is less so.
Click to expand...

The difference is that they aren't in the thick of it typically when they Ult aside from Reaper. They are usually flanking.
 
O

ohkay

Member
Anyone know of a good resource for call out locations? I'm always scrambling to figure out something more descriptive than left, right, behind, etc.
 
A

Anne

Member
Karsticles said:
@Anne: why wasn't Bastion in your list at all? I find that most teams don't have the necessary coordination to handle him.
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He still loses to tons of shit and is overall just too gimiicky. My list assumes people are trying to climb to and through the point where teams are coordinated enough to deal.

Edit: also yeah Mei is kinda garbo right now. Junkrat is probably better to pick than her.
 
F

Fugu

Member
MartyStu said:
In all fairness, several Ults are effective death sentences: Pharah, Reaper, and McCree being the biggest offenders.

I actually liked the fact that Rez required some sharp decision making in order to have value. Now that is less so.
Click to expand...
I can't remember the last time I killed anyone with a Mercy res. As a Pharah player I can attest to the fact that ulting usually means dying but unless your ult went horribly you're going to end up ahead. Her ult is also among the most difficult to use in the game; Reaper often doesn't die (although it seldom matters) and McCree shouldn't die.

If Mercy dies, she has to get a double res to have accomplished anything and likely has to get bigger than that for it to really change the tempo of the fight. This is coupled with the fact that anything that can kill three people at once can also probably kill Mercy.

I struggled in diamond as a Mercy main for most of S3 because she depended so much on her teammates doing the damage and positioning themselves well. Now she is much more capable of being a decisive factor on less... good teams while still fundamentally requiring the player to have awareness and creativity.

The reason I stopped playing her was that I realized that I've got a lot more control of the outcome of the match if I'm the one shooting everyone. Now it's fun to play her again since I don't have to die to potentially save my team. And to put it in perspective the pros aren't exactly lining up to play her; yes, her usage in comp is high, but it's always been high.
 
C

Chance

Member
Terareflection said:
Rez requires just as much decision making as it used to before the buff, now you choose whether to save yourself or save the team.
Click to expand...

This. And Mercy still is in a vulnerable position once the invincibility ends AND her team is still in the potentially-catastrophic positioning that could havr contributed to the wipe in the first place.

Pharah's ult is a fine example of one that's hard to pull off without gettin' wrecked in the process, though. It all depends on whether or not the position you launch it from inspires "ohfuckohfuckohfuck" from the other team as opposed to "BOOM headshot!"
 
M

MartyStu

Member
Fugu said:
I can't remember the last time I killed anyone with a Mercy res. As a Pharah player I can attest to the fact that ulting usually means dying but unless your ult went horribly you're going to end up ahead. Her ult is also among the most difficult to use in the game; Reaper often doesn't die (although it seldom matters) and McCree shouldn't die.

If Mercy dies, she has to get a double res to have accomplished anything and likely has to get bigger than that for it to really change the tempo of the fight. This is coupled with the fact that anything that can kill three people at once can also probably kill Mercy.

I struggled in diamond as a Mercy main for most of S3 because she depended so much on her teammates doing the damage and positioning themselves well. Now she is much more capable of being a decisive factor on less... good teams while still fundamentally requiring the player to have awareness and creativity.

The reason I stopped playing her was that I realized that I've got a lot more control of the outcome of the match if I'm the one shooting everyone. Now it's fun to play her again since I don't have to die to potentially save my team. And to put it in perspective the pros aren't exactly lining up to play her; yes, her usage in comp is high, but it's always been high.
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The point was risk versus potential value. I am arguing that she was not the only one that had to herself at great risk in order to gain value from her ult.

I really like that design and actually think more 'safer' ults should follow that pattern.
 
F

Fugu

Member
Chance said:
This. And Mercy still is in a vulnerable position once the invincibility ends AND her team is still in the potentially-catastrophic positioning that could havr contributed to the wipe in the first place.

Pharah's ult is a fine example of one that's hard to pull off without gettin' wrecked in the process, though. It all depends on whether or not the position you launch it from inspires "ohfuckohfuckohfuck" from the other team as opposed to "BOOM headshot!"
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If you fire the ult from anywhere but where the enemy team is expecting to see you, you'll probably get at least two, and that's plenty.

Use concussion to get behind the enemy team. Make sure they don't see you while you're doing it. Ult into the hitscans and/or the support (depends on the situation). Make sure you're not going to be firing into barriers and don't aim at anything with more than 200 health unless there's nobody left to kill you.

The problem as I see it is that many Pharah players know that their ult will make them vulnerable so they try to do it from a safe position. This, ironically, gets them killed because they can't do much damage from a safe position. Pharah's ult should explicitly be used from places where playing her normally would be inadvisable since the enemy team will only be able to react to your positioning after you've already killed someone.

MartyStu said:
The point was risk versus potential value. I am arguing that she was not the only one that had to herself at great risk in order to gain value from her ult.

I really like that design and actually think more 'safer' ults should follow that pattern.
Click to expand...
Right but the positive effect of Mercy's ult is to increase the number of living players on your team, which is directly contradicted by her dying. If Pharah dies while ulting, it doesn't bring another player back onto their team; she can 2-for-1 and have sufficiently served her purpose. A 2-for-1 res - Mercy gets two and then dies - is a very bad situation most of the time; you've burned an ult and lost a healer to give yourself one more player in a teamfight.
 
C

Chance

Member
I think my best was from silently floating above an entire team in that little indoor flanking passage with the small health pack on Anubis B. Close enough to do insane damage, sneaky enough that they couldn't stop it once it started.
 
C

Cappa

Banned
LiK said:
Yea, Komaru might be the best Pharah in our group. I prefer him sticking with her for our sessions. Works real well most of the time.

As Soldier, I like that Komaru can distract the other Pharah so I can go kill her or he can kill her himself.
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Im killing it with Winston right now lol I think he might be my new pick just finished with 58 elims on koth Nepal won 3-0
 
A

Anne

Member
Chance said:
I think my best was from silently floating above an entire team in that little indoor flanking passage with the small health pack on Anubis B. Close enough to do insane damage, sneaky enough that they couldn't stop it once it started.
Click to expand...

This is the best way to use Pharah ult outside of a combo btw. Hover over a doorway or something that the enemy team has to push, then once they are hella committed you just pop Q.
 
F

FiveSix4Three

Member
ohkay said:
Anyone know of a good resource for call out locations? I'm always scrambling to figure out something more descriptive than left, right, behind, etc.
Click to expand...

I thought about this yesterday. Trying to describe exact locations on the fly turns into some gibberish at times. Lol
 
A

Anne

Member
Found out people will pay up to $75 to get boosted to master on PC. Why am I even bothering to get my own rank up.
 
A

Anne

Member
snack said:
Are you serious? Is this like a site where you pay for people to queue up with you? Lol mah gawd.
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Yaa, boosting isn't some new thing it's been around for ages but I hit up the cheating forums to see what people are using (and see banwave tears). I went to look today and saw people will pay more for low level Overwatch boosting than most other games.
 
O

Owzers

Member
What's the point in getting boosted to master, there isn't any mega loot. Then what, you make an alt and play with plat people?

ND totally boosted to master.
 
P

papasmurf1038

Neo Member
I still think the best tool to give Mercy would be a Guardian Angel point that she can manually set in the game world, to allow her to plan escapes independent of her team's positioning.

Fugu said:
Mercy is often described as being very easy to play but it's simply not true; she depends on, perhaps more than any other character, a strong understanding of positioning and the enemy team's tempo to play well. When she dies, the team dies, and that's a lot of pressure.
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Yeah, this. Mercy is mechanically very easy to come to grips with, but that ease is extremely misleading. The baseline skill floor for competent play with Mercy requires her to nimbly avoid flankers, hitscans, crowd control ults, and almost never die while still staying in the thick of the action and outputting consistent healing to keep key team members from dying. All while being one of the highest-value targets for the enemy team pretty much at all times. The ease and "game-changing" feel of the Huge Rez encourages most Mercies I've seen at Diamond and below to hang back behind a wall and watch as their team dies without her healing, and then complain bitterly about needing protection when a Tracer focuses them down in 2 seconds. But because they're getting those big Revive PotGs here and there, and because Mercy is "easy", they don't even realize they fundamentally misunderstand how to play the character.

Basically, Mercy's 1-star difficulty rating is a huge trap and I wish she wasn't considered the "default healer" by everyone who begrudgingly fills their team's support slot.
 
A

Anne

Member
I think Mercy is extremely easy to play until you get to like a pro level tbh. People vastly overstate how hard it is to survive on her and get value rez.

Not trying to say Mercy players aren't good, just saying there's a reason "boosted Mercy main" is a stereotype at high elo. It's easy to be just a decently passable Mercy and get carried very far with no other mechanics to fall back on.
 
A

Azoor

Member
Anne said:
I think Mercy is extremely easy to play until you get to like a pro level tbh. People vastly overstate how hard it is to survive on her and get value rez.

Not trying to say Mercy players aren't good, just saying there's a reason "boosted Mercy main" is a stereotype at high elo. It's easy to be just a decently passable Mercy and get carried very far with no other mechanics to fall back on.
Click to expand...

Mercy is one of the hardest heroes to get at higher levels because of vulnerable she is, but she can be extremely useful when done right.
 
A

Anne

Member
Azoor said:
Mercy is one of the hardest heroes to get at higher levels because of vulnerable she is, but she can be extremely useful when done right.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I have respect for pretty good players that happen to play a lot of Mercy, but she's mad easy to play. The hardest part is staying alive which is what people is saying is hard, but anybody with common game sense can do it well enough. Anybody can also get babysat through some more poor decisions too.

She's supposed to be more or less mechanic-less and easy to pick up to have heals on a team. Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

This isn't to say there isn't a skill ceiling for Mercy players to work towards, but the skill floor is def contender for lowest in the game to be effective.
 
F

Fugu

Member
Anne said:
I think Mercy is extremely easy to play until you get to like a pro level tbh. People vastly overstate how hard it is to survive on her and get value rez.

Not trying to say Mercy players aren't good, just saying there's a reason "boosted Mercy main" is a stereotype at high elo. It's easy to be just a decently passable Mercy and get carried very far with no other mechanics to fall back on.
Click to expand...
I think that's myopic. If you already have the skills and mentality to survive as Mercy then yes, it's going to feel awfully easy to do it since she doesn't have to aim at anything. But that mentality evidently eludes the vast majority of people who play as the character.

Besides, the requirements for aim in this game are so low that there are plenty of hitscan players in diamond who can just barely hit the broad side of a barn but don't have any of the requisite awareness to play as Mercy.
 
S

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
Fugu said:
I think that's myopic. If you already have the skills and mentality to survive as Mercy then yes, it's going to feel awfully easy to do it since she doesn't have to aim at anything. But that mentality evidently eludes the vast majority of people who play as the character.

Besides, the requirements for aim in this game are so low that there are plenty of hitscan players in diamond who can just barely hit the broad side of a barn but don't have any of the requisite awareness to play as Mercy.
Click to expand...

The same skills are required to play any squishy character. The difference is Mercy has an escape, movement, and repositioning tool on par with the best flankers in the game. While taking out the need for aim. Her only concern is awareness and positioning. Which every other class needs anyways to be effective. She is the lowest bar for skill.
 
F

Fugu

Member
shintoki said:
The same skills are required to play any squishy character. The difference is Mercy has an escape, movement, and repositioning tool on par with the best flankers in the game. While taking out the need for aim. Her only concern is awareness and positioning. Which every other class needs anyways to be effective. She is the lowest bar for skill.
Click to expand...
She also flies around with a giant bullseye on her back and has no means of defending herself except by corralling her teammates into doing so.
 
K

killdatninja

Banned
antitrop said:
Because hiding for rez was the best way to play Mercy, at one point in the game.
But that point hasn't been for a fucking loooooooooong time and people haven't relearned how to play her.

Hiding for rez is some Season 1 shit. We're on Season 4. People need to wake up.
Click to expand...

When I read your thoughts on Mercy, you've been 100% on the money. I haven't consistently played Mercy since season 1, one reason was everyone told me I played her wrong (and Lucio has since always been meta...). And at the time, I think I would agree, my play style did not mesh well with how Mercy was being played for a long time. The last buff changed my life, it allows me to be more aggressive with my rez.

Last night, there was quite a few times that I popped a rez to keep the momentum going, I think one time I solo-rezed a tank (maybe Owzers?) just to keep numbers and front line intact. Last night was the first time, no one said a (negative) thing about my rez's, it was a very surprising to me because I get in arguments with randoms whose thinking that it should only ever be used on 4+ (3+ if OT).

Being able to stay alive once you burn a rez, then being able start building it up shortly after has been a game changer (instead of dying due to a kamikaze rez). Being able to tell someone, "I'm already at 55%" when I burned an Ult not even 30 seconds ago tends to shut people up pretty quickly.

Btw: You were right so far, the Mercy win streak is real!
Im50myN.png
 
A

Azoor

Member
Anne said:
I disagree. I have respect for pretty good players that happen to play a lot of Mercy, but she's mad easy to play. The hardest part is staying alive which is what people is saying is hard, but anybody with common game sense can do it well enough. Anybody can also get babysat through some more poor decisions too.

She's supposed to be more or less mechanic-less and easy to pick up to have heals on a team. Nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

This isn't to say there isn't a skill ceiling for Mercy players to work towards, but the skill floor is def contender for lowest in the game to be effective.
Click to expand...

I respect your opinion, but I disagree, things like survivability and rezz timing aren't as easy as you think it is, skills like knowing when to run, when to hide and how many people you need to rezz and how to prioritize heal and damage buff aren't as "mad easy" as you think it is. She is not as hard as someone like Ana or Zen, I'll give you that.
 
A

Anne

Member
Azoor said:
I respect your opinion, but I disagree, things like survivability and rezz timing aren't as easy as you think it is, skills like knowing when to run, when to hide and how many people you need to rezz and how to prioritize heal and damage buff aren't as "mad easy" as you think it is. She is not as hard as someone like Ana or Zen, I'll give you that.
Click to expand...

I mean I've played Mercy in GM games and played Mercy in comp scrims back in S1. It's about as easy as I think it is because I've literally done it myself.
 
F

Fixed2BeBroken

Member
Azoor said:
I respect your opinion, but I disagree, things like survivability and rezz timing aren't as easy as you think it is, skills like knowing when to run, when to hide and how many people you need to rezz and how to prioritize heal and damage buff aren't as "mad easy" as you think it is. She is not as hard as someone like Ana or Zen, I'll give you that.
Click to expand...

i mean, if Ana and Zen are the "harder" ones....then Lucio and Mercy are the easier ones.
 
F

Fixed2BeBroken

Member
Azoor said:
But not "mad easy" though.
Click to expand...

I get what he's saying. He's saying she's just easy mechanically to just pick up and play.

He wasn't necessarily saying she is easy to master. I'd argue any noob can pick up mercy and play her...but it takes experience to be very good with her.
 
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