Kayo Police
Member
Honesty the most important thing to know about this game is ult economy and managing it correctly.
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Overwatch ranked competitive matchmaking is the most one sided atrocity EVER.
- Thread starter TheSadRanger
- Start date
I played a game last night where it was the exact same for both teams. Mine are always close.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the matchmaking. It's very good at putting against people comparable. Solo queue sucks because you never know what teammates you'll get, but that's a risk you take. Sure I had a game recently where 2 of my teammates were throwing idiots, but I had really close ones a lot. I can't find another game out there that feels as good as Overwatch to play.
Here's what they need to do:
Simplify SR to be based on wins and loses compared to opponents SR
Reduce gains and losses for matches with less than 6 people on a team. (this would re-average team SR's with a 0SR team member for each missing team member).
Figure out a way to see who has a legit disconnect and tries to reconnect versus someone choosing to leave. too many disconnects and you'll be given a temp ban on competitive. Leaving should be an auto temp ban and if you do it multiple times be permanently banned. if you re-connect within a certain amount of time should still probably take a loss unless it was server side, or if your team is able to win once you rejoin though should be less of a win.
If grouping up with someone who is at a higher rank than you, your SR should not be averaged into the team for matchmaking. So if you want to play with your better rated friends it shouldn't give them easier matches.
Scenario:
Your group of 6 has players rated
A) 2950
B) 2940
C) 2935
D) 2750
E) 2600
F) 2300
Your team SR: 2746
Your Matchmaking SR: 2835
Opponent Team SR: 2840
So the game would try and matchmake you with a team rated 2835. If your team wins, players A-E will get gains relative to the 2835 MM SR vs 2840. Player F will get gains relative to the 2746 SR vs 2840. same for losses. So the Player F would gain more SR on win and lose less SR on a loss. Players A-E would see regular gains/losses. if Player F is capable of playing at that level they would quickly get up to the rest of their team. if not the group will lose more matches and Players A-E will probably lower faster to match the team SR.
Does that make sense? I think it would solve a lot of issues with matchmaking.
Simplify SR to be based on wins and loses compared to opponents SR
Reduce gains and losses for matches with less than 6 people on a team. (this would re-average team SR's with a 0SR team member for each missing team member).
Figure out a way to see who has a legit disconnect and tries to reconnect versus someone choosing to leave. too many disconnects and you'll be given a temp ban on competitive. Leaving should be an auto temp ban and if you do it multiple times be permanently banned. if you re-connect within a certain amount of time should still probably take a loss unless it was server side, or if your team is able to win once you rejoin though should be less of a win.
If grouping up with someone who is at a higher rank than you, your SR should not be averaged into the team for matchmaking. So if you want to play with your better rated friends it shouldn't give them easier matches.
Scenario:
Your group of 6 has players rated
A) 2950
B) 2940
C) 2935
D) 2750
E) 2600
F) 2300
Your team SR: 2746
Your Matchmaking SR: 2835
Opponent Team SR: 2840
So the game would try and matchmake you with a team rated 2835. If your team wins, players A-E will get gains relative to the 2835 MM SR vs 2840. Player F will get gains relative to the 2746 SR vs 2840. same for losses. So the Player F would gain more SR on win and lose less SR on a loss. Players A-E would see regular gains/losses. if Player F is capable of playing at that level they would quickly get up to the rest of their team. if not the group will lose more matches and Players A-E will probably lower faster to match the team SR.
Does that make sense? I think it would solve a lot of issues with matchmaking.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
My only complaint is if your gonna solo comps with randoms the matchmaking should not put you in teams with parties. Overwatch has to be big enough to where there has to be plenty of people playing comps solo. Just copy Mercenary mode in COD.
LordKasual
Banned
I think the ultimate problem with matchmaking systems in multiplayer games is that they're mostly just repurposing systems that were designed to track skill in 1v1 games with essentially ZERO variance between advantage/disadvantage other than the skills of the players themselves.
5v5 and 6v6 games are not 1v1 games, and so win/loss ratio being the only ranking factor is flawed.
Sure Tele isn't as good as res, but I don't see how in any capacity any character doesn't put in work in the slightest. I've blocked multiple ults with my E, gotten good picks especially on supports.
In hindsight, anecdotally, playing Symmetra has gained me my most Elo.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
How many games have you played? I don't want to say "liar" but....
Angry Puppy
Member
Elo hell is something people made up to make themselves feel better about their ranking. Over sustained play, you will get to where you belong. Maybe you just aren't as good as you think you are.
This is something I totally agree with. I don't want to be paired with a 5 stack.
Actually they all are, if your MMR is low enough.
-MD-
Member
What rank are you to where 95% of your matches are balanced within 50 points of each other? I need to be in that bracket.
I think carry means 'pick characters that don't rely on teammates'
You can't carry as Rein or Mercy, But you can carry as Zarya. especially at low ranks where everyone plays Junkrat. Pharah is good against him too.
I'm in gold almost plat right now and most of mine are within about 100. Worst I ever saw was my first season in bronze, it was like a 400 point disparity or something wild. This is on Xbox, however. I can't comment on PC stuff.
I've had fairly balanced matches on PC. It depends on a lot of things.
1) Hidden MMR - Someone can decay (lets say master) from 3500-3000, but he will still be playing with masters because his hidden MMR hasn't changed. He will lose very little points, but gain a ton (50+). This is the #1 thing that people don't understand. Hidden MMR > SR. SR is just the public number shown to people, but hidden MMR is what determines who you get in your matches.
2) Premades - There are premades that queue with lower ranks that will fk with the total SR of each team.
3) Time of day - I noticed that playing earlier in the day when most people are at work tends to have an effect on SR between each time ( But this only happened when I played @ GM Level in season 3). I doubt it will happen in diamond / low master.
4) Platform - On PC, the SR balance is usually fine aside from the things listed above. I know XBONE/PS4 have less people in their community so I can't really comment on that but that might be the reason for the SR difference.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Diamond icon but mostly chilling in high plat this season.
It's funny to still see all this arguing over ELO hells and solo vs. groups. Competitive ranking modes have been around for a while.
Here's how you can better yourself. This is not just from my anecdotal experiences but from extensive talking to other diamonds and grand masters about their experiences. It's still all anecdotal but hey, it's an internet forum I guess? ^_^; :
--light side--
a.) In solo, who do you see as the most overpowered hero? The one that, if skilled enough, has the biggest impact in the game? "Oh, there seems to be a wide variety." You say in public. But then you think "Oh, they got to delete Ana or Genji" to yourself. Take that hero, and practice A LOT. Read hero guides, change your keybinds and sensitivity, put a dozen hours into playing nothing but them. There's only one good way out of ELO Hell, and it's becoming the solo carry.
b.) Find a dedicated group, not just a discord with a smattering of random players. Groups will only prosper if they can rely on what is being heard and said reliably lead to positive results. If you aren't doing this, chances are the other team will and you'll get your shit pushed in.
--dark side--
c.) Buy a smurf account. Now you're stepping out an account that has all your old bad records of being a guy trying to figure out the game and you're stepping into an account of someone who is pretty okay right at the start. It works! Your hidden MMR will be better! I and others have tried to make smurf accounts and "hanjo" to gold to help out the lower rankers in our community but ended up getting carried into diamond. Also the time it takes to go from level 0 to 25 in quickplay is a good opportunity to practice a hero!
--super dark side--
d.) In solo, until you're high plat or diamond, mute voice (or heck, all) communications. I know, that sounds crazy and selfish, but solo is filled with enough toxicity and really dumb people telling you really dumb things that I and others have agreed that this is a net positive. Blizzard has done a wonderful job at putting in visual and directional audio cues, and the game is pretty simple enough, that all you really need to do is pay attention to those elements to understand what is going down. Hell, the Winston who is ranting for a minute to the Ana is only going to block out those cues Blizzard has created.
You don't need a tilting Soldier 76 to scream that Mercy rezzed everybody. You don't need a bad Lucio attempting to bully your good Junkrat into being a bad McCree. You don't need to be pulled into an argument about how you're intentionally throwing because your Genji got countered once.
This also prevents YOU from tilting and raging at your own team, and learning to become a more self reliant in solo comp. At the very least, I can guarantee competitive will be a better experience.
Here's how you can better yourself. This is not just from my anecdotal experiences but from extensive talking to other diamonds and grand masters about their experiences. It's still all anecdotal but hey, it's an internet forum I guess? ^_^; :
--light side--
a.) In solo, who do you see as the most overpowered hero? The one that, if skilled enough, has the biggest impact in the game? "Oh, there seems to be a wide variety." You say in public. But then you think "Oh, they got to delete Ana or Genji" to yourself. Take that hero, and practice A LOT. Read hero guides, change your keybinds and sensitivity, put a dozen hours into playing nothing but them. There's only one good way out of ELO Hell, and it's becoming the solo carry.
b.) Find a dedicated group, not just a discord with a smattering of random players. Groups will only prosper if they can rely on what is being heard and said reliably lead to positive results. If you aren't doing this, chances are the other team will and you'll get your shit pushed in.
--dark side--
c.) Buy a smurf account. Now you're stepping out an account that has all your old bad records of being a guy trying to figure out the game and you're stepping into an account of someone who is pretty okay right at the start. It works! Your hidden MMR will be better! I and others have tried to make smurf accounts and "hanjo" to gold to help out the lower rankers in our community but ended up getting carried into diamond. Also the time it takes to go from level 0 to 25 in quickplay is a good opportunity to practice a hero!
--super dark side--
d.) In solo, until you're high plat or diamond, mute voice (or heck, all) communications. I know, that sounds crazy and selfish, but solo is filled with enough toxicity and really dumb people telling you really dumb things that I and others have agreed that this is a net positive. Blizzard has done a wonderful job at putting in visual and directional audio cues, and the game is pretty simple enough, that all you really need to do is pay attention to those elements to understand what is going down. Hell, the Winston who is ranting for a minute to the Ana is only going to block out those cues Blizzard has created.
You don't need a tilting Soldier 76 to scream that Mercy rezzed everybody. You don't need a bad Lucio attempting to bully your good Junkrat into being a bad McCree. You don't need to be pulled into an argument about how you're intentionally throwing because your Genji got countered once.
This also prevents YOU from tilting and raging at your own team, and learning to become a more self reliant in solo comp. At the very least, I can guarantee competitive will be a better experience.
MikeBison
Member
As well as all the other support ults. Wish there were less Mercy fanboys around, she's the worst healer by far. She is good at one job and that's pocketing a pharah. Other than that there's always a better pick imo.
Ana is the best single target healer and is a damage monster. Her ult is great and sleep/biotic have incredible utility.
Having a zen makes every team fight easier. Healing is the weakest part of his kit but great for dive characters and can be enough to help them win their 1v1. Discord is still super powerful and his ult can decide team fights. Even just psychologically people don't know what to do against Transcendence.
Lucio has speed boost which makes him super important and aoe heals can be useful between engagements. Ult is super strong and often decides team fights.
Mercy needs to be babied, her healing is slow single point, damage boost is crap and her res can win a fight for sure, but is often not available when you need it most because she's dead, or people are going for that POTG res when in fact a solo res is worth it if that means your team can press a numbers advantage.
All of this is off topic but I need to rant sorry ha!
MikeBison
Member
I just vomited. Worst character in the game after Orisa.
Orisa isn't that bad.
She sees more pro play than Reaper, at the moment. (Even if it is only just on Nepal Sanctum, to pull people off the edge with her right click)
UltimaPooh
Member
All of the other supports are better or more equiped to attack then Symm.
MikeBison
Member
One round, on one map and it doesn't really work. Just watched Rogue absolutely blow her up in seconds today.
She doesn't nothing as good as the other tanks. No reason to pick her unless you're a masochist and even then her design is so bland what's the point.
People think she's fighting for the Rein spot, but she's not, she's fighting for one of the utility tank spots and DVA, Zarya and Hog are absolute light years ahead of her in their kits. She'll be getting a huge rebalance that's for sure.
AllBusinessJr
Member
Agreed. I love this idea.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
That doesn't really have any correlation to what you just said but aight.
I was just saying that you seemed to have a very loose, watered-down definition of "carrying." Getting a pick and communicating with your team isn't carrying, it's just playing the game like a normal smart person would. Carrying, in the actual sense of you doing basically all the leg work with minimal to no input from the rest of your team, would be more like you jumping up with Widow and immediately one shotting four people on the enemy team so your team can walk through with no resistance, then proceeding to do that however many more times it takes to win the game.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
Just because you don't know how to play him doesn't mean he's bad, it just means you don't fully understand what he's capable of.
MikeBison
Member
Nah, I explained why. Orisa is just garbage in his/her current state.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
I'm not talking about orisa though
I've found the matchmaking in ranked to be generally ok. Obviously win/loss streaks were a problem (that are getting removed?) because tons of people were ending up either too low or too high in mmr given their actual skill.
Ironically when issues like this come up, you see the first suggestions being "join a team/queue as a group lol" which is absolutely the worst thing you can do since the matchmaker actually just breaks with big groups. The most unbalanced games I've been in always involve groups of size 4+ ruining the matchmaking.
Something I have noticed, though, is that matchmaking in quick play and especially arcade seems really busted even for games with no groups. I'm a high plat/low diamond player and regularly see GMs in those games...I'm surprised the population in those modes is so low that that's all the matchmaker can come up with.
Ironically when issues like this come up, you see the first suggestions being "join a team/queue as a group lol" which is absolutely the worst thing you can do since the matchmaker actually just breaks with big groups. The most unbalanced games I've been in always involve groups of size 4+ ruining the matchmaking.
Something I have noticed, though, is that matchmaking in quick play and especially arcade seems really busted even for games with no groups. I'm a high plat/low diamond player and regularly see GMs in those games...I'm surprised the population in those modes is so low that that's all the matchmaker can come up with.
Junkrat on Eichenwalde defence is godlike even in GM
MikeBison
Member
Oh shit, you're talking about junkrat. My bad.
Well, same applies, no reason to pick him over others in his role. Mad squishy, unreliable damage, charges enemy Zarya to high heaven, second worst ult in the game after Widow's.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
second worst ult lmao, yeah you really don't play junkrat at all.
Because thats what carrying means in a game like OW, a game that is very team/role/ult oriented? Wut... Do you even play? Just because i said "carry", it doesn't mean you're gonna 1 v 6 every single time... it means you're playing a carry hero, coordinating ults with ana (nano boost) or reind (earth shatter), knowing when to flank / good positioning / picking off healers / good tracking / etc.. That is the definition of "carry" in Overwatch. You can differentiate a grand master player and a diamond player playing in the same elo.
MikeBison
Member
No i don't, but I love when the enemy does because he's so unbelievably easy to take care of.
And it is, yeah those 5 man kills in bronze rank are great, but anywhere plat and above it's just so easy to neuter. It's got the loudest audio cues in the game and pitiful hp, just takes one person to look at it and you take it out. Not to mention that it makes him totally static and easier than normal to kill.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Orisa is good at keeping players at a distant. Her gun does decent damage.
people think Junkrat is good, especially when there's a Pharah on the enemy team and we have no hitscan. This game can be pretty miserable solo-que until you're upper diamond/master.
You are never gonna hit a competent team with that ult unless it's after a Earth shatter.
You are never gonna hit a competent team with that ult unless it's after a Earth shatter.
Wait what? Widow's ult is really useful, you can see where are the enemies and predict if they are flanking to use ults like Soldier.
Maube you meant second worst ult after McCree's, that I can agree with.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
You can continue to talk smack, but I've performed consistently with him in upper plat/lower diamond and have easily got at least one or two kills with his ult consistently. You don't understand how to play him at all so its easy to jump on the hate bandwagon.
well if you're playing at your rank you'll win as many as you lose. and until the numbers can see how a single boop or Zarya bubble can win a game I'd rather keep things simple and team focused than not.
It's pretty easy to make a case for Widow's ult being the worst, considering Hanzo has it on a 20 second cooldown.
The vast majority of Ults have complete game-changing potential, Widow's is one of the few that doesn't. Even High Noon, as terrible as it is, can be combo'd into a team wipe.
MikeBison
Member
Her hitbox is the size of the moon though. She counters no one.
Zarya bubbles, therefore dps and ult better than anything she has.
Hogs ability to pick off and 1 shot combo a character every 8 secs is better than anything she has.
Dva's ability to block infinite damage and shut down ults, also to harass is better than anything she has.
Winstons harrassing and get in, get out damage on supports is better than anything she has. (Although high level play only, I suck ass at winston and in awe of the pros using him so well even for dive defences).
In short, she counters no one is and is a jack of some trades, master of none.
Yeah, McCree's ult is pretty garbo. At least he builds it quick?
Spartancarver
Member
That's because Eichenwalde is a garbage map.
Mercy rez makes me want to quit this game. That ult should not be recharging nearly as fast as it does. All Mercy has to do is camp away from a fight, wait til the opposing team uses an Ult or two to kill a couple friendlies, then Shift zoom in and rez. So unfun.
MikeBison
Member
How many pro teams run a junkrat?
Paltheos
Member
Just browsing through the topic again, but it's... really all same old, same old. The asserted problems of competitive and the arguments to support those claims are the same bad they usually are. They're all performance-based and fail to account for the simple point that any such issue can be something the enemy team may need to deal with as well and, if you can gain SR from your current position, you will inevitably climb past in the long term.
There's a couple things you may need to consider:
1) If individual losses bother you that much, maybe Overwatch isn't the game for you, because you will encounter games you can't win (unless you're, like, an absolute god and can land a million headshots in a row while juking the enemy team every time). Sometimes a bunch in a row.
2) You may be just hypersensitive to your own team's errors and weaknesses and not sensitive enough to the opponents'. Some people tend to think of the enemy team's movements as coordinated while not thinking of theirs as the same and... man, all this shit is obvious.
There's a couple things you may need to consider:
1) If individual losses bother you that much, maybe Overwatch isn't the game for you, because you will encounter games you can't win (unless you're, like, an absolute god and can land a million headshots in a row while juking the enemy team every time). Sometimes a bunch in a row.
2) You may be just hypersensitive to your own team's errors and weaknesses and not sensitive enough to the opponents'. Some people tend to think of the enemy team's movements as coordinated while not thinking of theirs as the same and... man, all this shit is obvious.
Someone mentioned in a reddit thread how closer targets to McCree should be locked on faster, that might make up for his ult's weakness.
MikeBison
Member
I nearly said Mcree for second worst. Would probably say 3rd worst. It's mainly for zoning use now. Which itself has been nerfed by him not being able to cancel it at 50%. Offset by the fact that he's a pick monster in the hands of a good hitscan player though. Soldier overall is easier to be more consistent with, but my word a good mcree is something to behold.
I don't think the majority of players are trying to be pros.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I don't see how this couldn't work for Overwatch as well. Bots introduce their own issues, and replacing with a new player does as well (do they jump to the same spot? The respawn point? Were they expecting to come in the middle of an already active game?)