Blizzard stated that they're trying to make Overwatch's cast diverse and inclusive, nothing wrong with pointing out ways they could do an even better job.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Overwatch's Laughably Convenient Ageism / Sexism
- Thread starter mindsale
- Start date
Blizzard stated that they're trying to make Overwatch's cast diverse and inclusive, nothing wrong with pointing out ways they could do an even better job.
I think it's fine to cheer for characters of this type to be added in subsequent updates, which is why I think this discussion has it's purpose, but bemoaning the fact that the current cast includes no older ladies isn't very productive IMO, especially when most of them (aside from Mei) are well justified (contrary to what the OP argues). At that point, your options are to try and peer behind the veil and guess at who could've been "made older" (and go against the character's intended design) or cut characters to fit in others that satisfy this condition. Both of these options I am not thrilled about and both attempt to force the developer's hand in a strange way.
Going forward I'd be totally fine with a new character that happens to be a female robot or middle aged women. I'm not a fan of tinkering with the current cast in an attempt to diversify though.
It's obvious the Overwatch organization has ageist hiring practices. This is all part of the deep lore.
(I cut them some slack for this because they already did a good job of diversification although if Sombra is a nubile 50 year old underneath her armor I'm going to roll my eyes pretty hard.)
(I cut them some slack for this because they already did a good job of diversification although if Sombra is a nubile 50 year old underneath her armor I'm going to roll my eyes pretty hard.)
If you really think that, you might want to exit from gaming as a hobby all together...
No prob, I want to check it out now, those are some cool character designs.No problem fam
I literally cannot answer this question without spoiling the game for you
Sorry
Having a diverse set of heroes is a key defining feature of Overwatch... like, that's the entire theme of the game.
Is that what this thread is about? It reads more like a polemic on Blizzard because they have some secret agenda to make all women attractive. Way less constructive, although admittedly more attention-grabbing. So maybe more effective?
badblue
Gold Member
Then someone would complain that only a misogynist would make women look like that. There is no wining.
Relevant comic [NSFW]
I kind of feel like it's the other way around. They didn't make Emma look like Emmy, in that they gave her the same body as Emmy; they clearly just copied Emmy from Emma. Emmy is barely even a character. It's extremely obvious that Emmy only exists for gameplay reasons,
since Emma dies fighting the main villain and you need a replacement
Criticism is a natural part of the feedback loop in games. Nobody is forcing the devs to do anything. I don't even see people suggesting they should edit current characters after the fact -- I see people suggesting the characters should have been different from the start. The game's story goes out of its way to make the female characters young when they're clearly fine with older male characters and it's completely valid to criticize that. Same thing goes for non-human characters being exclusively male for some reason.
Well, the point the OP is making (I think), is that with the multitude of female characters in the game, at least one of them could be "older".
SmoothRunningGun
Member
This game has more diversity than most. Not something I would criticize them for (I have many other issues with it).
If you read the OP what gets bemoaned is the contrived reasons that they wrote for almost all of the female characters to keep them all young. I'm fine with the character's designs as they are, but the reasoning on the writing is really bad.
Is that why I remember all that praise for the women and thier builds when they were revealed, cuz I'm pretty sure I remember that.
Anyways, this is WaifuWatch, I'm sure Blizzard knew exactly what they were doing.
I was thinking of that as well. Blizzard design in general suffers from the "babeification" of female non-humans.
I agree. The tone of the thread seems to suggest that the diversity already present in Overwatch is somehow undermined by this insidious thread of ageism.
I prefer a more positive spin on it myself; that there is always room going forward (especially given the current rumored characters).
Oh yeah i fully agree. It reminds me of something from Legend of Dragoon...
But yeah, Emma was the real MVP
/derail over
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Okay my post was pretty bad and maybe I should explain.
It feels like they're doing a good job in making Overwatch diverse in a lot of ways, but at the same time with threads like these, it seems like the job could've been a lot better and maybe Blizzard didn't of it in the first place with people pointing out the flaws a lot more. It seems I hear more saying they need to do a lot more, which made me write my post in the first place.
I apologize for my post.
Eh... but they also "manify" non-humans.
Like a male tuaren has just as many human features as a female tauren.
Its not like the male tauren looks like a bull walking around on all fours
I think Blizzard (at least in WoW) gives both genders equal treatment when giving them human features.
To be fair, many of these female characters are actually as old as some of their male counterparts so it's not like they'd be shoe-horning older women into the game, they're there. If anything, the excuses for why they haven't aged feel more shoe-horned and forced than anything else (at least if the descriptions in the OP are accurate, I haven't played the game myself).
Literally the only one who is older than she looks is Mei (who was always designed to be a young-looking character from the start). Tracer was gone for one year and I don't even know where OP got that Widowmaker thing from.
GhostWriter24
Member
I wouldn't mind the inclusion of a wider age range, but people spouting off about how happy they are they didn't purchase the game because of this "issue" are grasping at straws.
Yeah, WoW is pretty good about that imo. Female Orcs are plenty "Orcish". Same goes for female Dwarves and Tauren.
If by many you mean one...
I'm glad OP brought this to light.
Be that as it may, I'm of the minority who thinks Mercy does look her age. Although I don't have the game atm, she's the one character that stands out to me the most because she gives off an air of an older woman. She's no barbie, but she's pleasing to the eye anyway. I can easily believe she's anywhere between the age of 35 - 40.
What I'm saying is, I don't know where people get this idea that women over 35 suddenly start looking like they are in their 50's. Where is everyone looking for references?
I wonder if it has anything to do with the expectation that women and men over 35 should be married with kids, thus reducing their attainability/desirability? It's an assumption on my part but with some consideration, it makes sense. Between 35-40, people are urged to settle down and have families.
Shit, could that be why the fandom thinks of Mercy as the mom of Overwatch? Because she's at the "mom age"?
Be that as it may, I'm of the minority who thinks Mercy does look her age. Although I don't have the game atm, she's the one character that stands out to me the most because she gives off an air of an older woman. She's no barbie, but she's pleasing to the eye anyway. I can easily believe she's anywhere between the age of 35 - 40.
What I'm saying is, I don't know where people get this idea that women over 35 suddenly start looking like they are in their 50's. Where is everyone looking for references?
I wonder if it has anything to do with the expectation that women and men over 35 should be married with kids, thus reducing their attainability/desirability? It's an assumption on my part but with some consideration, it makes sense. Between 35-40, people are urged to settle down and have families.
Shit, could that be why the fandom thinks of Mercy as the mom of Overwatch? Because she's at the "mom age"?
In the grand scheme of things, at least in terms of videogame logic, it's really not that bad. Cryostasis and time travel are pretty inoffensive in terms of logic leaps.
You could argue that the writing could avoid the excuses altogether, but as they currently are, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with the explanations.
The world is set in the far future, where both of these explanations are perfectly reasonable.
No need to apologize, but Blizzard's treatment of the issue is far more inclusive than pretty much everyone else in the arena right now. Overwatch is incredibly diverse compared to most videogames on the market right now.
It's less "are these explanations believable within the context of a gaming universe" and more "why are these contrivances only employed when explaining their aesthetic choices for the women?"
It's kinda like when someone has a young Hillary Clinton avatar instead of how she looks now.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
It really is and I hope they continue to work on it in both character and the abilities that is with the upcoming characters.
GlenChivas
Member
Just so I understand... In a heavily stylized game that features robots and a highly intelligent talking ape, the issue here is a lack of realistic aging on female characters?
If we agree the cast is pretty well designed as it is, then ragging on the designers for some exclusions puts them in an almost impossible spot. Should they have not written these backstories like this in order to include the requisite character types? Then we'd be changing/cutting/replacing their cast.
I disagree with the notion that the backstories are all contrived. In fact I think they are all quite well justified in-universe (except for Mei), and with only Zarya being somewhat arbitrary if we're looking for "reasons" why they might be "kept young".
Yeah.
Yes, that seems to be the "problem" presented in this thread. I can't believe my eyes either.
I think part of it is that it's a clean art style. For a male example, it's pretty obvious in Uncharted 4 vs 3 that Drake is slightly older, but it's in the details, I'm hard-pressed to put my finger on exactly what gives it away, from memory. A couple of tiny extra lines around the eyes maybe? If I look at a pic of myself from a decade ago (I'm 37 now), the differences are there, slightly less hair, a touch of grey when unshaven, an extra wrinkle on the forehead when I frown now. Subtle stuff, I still look like a fairly young adult, but a touch more 'seasoned' as I like to call it
On a cartoony art style, you can't use the receding hairline as easily on a late-30s woman as you can on a bloke and it's harder to use very subtle cues when you want to keep the art clean. So I think they fell back on the cartoon classics of defining youth through bigger, clearer eyes and smiling more. Mercy seem to squint more and looks more stern, which are the fairly subtle cues as to having her look older than Tracer.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
You can't talk about this character without bringing up this badass scene. SPOILER WARNING for anyone who hasn't played it yet.
LQX
Member
I want to say age should not matter especially being that for the most part they all seem close in age but at the same time I sort of wish they had at-least included one black woman in the game. I give Overwatch a ton of credit for the diversity but once again like many others they forget black women.
That's not relevant to what i'm saying at all though....
While it seems an area Blizzard can improve on, I cut them some slack for making the game already so diverse. And after all are they going to keep adding characters
LQX
Member
She is Indian.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I think the game needs more young male characters. Still working on that young Hanzo skin
God Dayumm
Banned
I only play games where my lolis are at least three digits old