• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Overwatch's Laughably Convenient Ageism / Sexism

mindsale

Member
Overwatch is a game that after criticism has expressed interest in catering to non-ludotypical body types for women, and it's true that Zarya - short of the Amazon in Dragon's Crown - is perhaps the most musclebound woman in videogames. She's a spritely 28 years of age.

Though its heroines may be diverse in body proportions, however, they cannot be old.

Of the Overwatch team, Torbjorn, Soldier 76, Reinhardt, and Reaper represent old men who've been with the division since its original incarnation, making them 50+. And Roadhog and Hanzo are 48, and 38, respectively.

The women, however, are frozen in youth and beauty.

Mei is 31, but was frozen cryonically for a decade plus, conveniently keeping her out of those dreaded forties and within the realm of waifu-bait.

Tracer was a part of Overwatch's original assembly but was frozen in a temporal vortex, making her a perpetually perky, attractive 26. It's jarring to see her alongside the grey men of Overwatch with whom she worked many years prior. [Mod Edit: I wanted to note Tracer was not actually part of the original Overwatch team. She was in near the end and was in a temporal vortex for "months". This should not detract from the overall point of the OP though since she's very young regardless.]

Pharah's mother was originally in Overwatch 1.0, but thankfully she's dead so the game can sport Pharah, keeping her essentially the same character but more youthful and easier on the eyes.

Widowmaker is 33 and her breathing and aging has been slowed by an artifically-reduced heartbeat, keeping her blood less oxygenated and granting her skin a bluish hue.

Symmetra has no such contrivances that keep her young. She simply is. She's 28.

Mercy is the game's oldest female at 37, though her medical training requires her to be and sports a cybernetic Valkyrie suit.

D.Va is a 19 year-old K-Pop starlet in a skintight bodysuit.

It's worth nothing that no robots or true cyborgs in the game can be female.

I found it amusing that for all its posturing on inclusivity among body types (which is essentially six Barbies, a thicker Barbie in a parka, and a short-haired weightlifter), the game sports a glaring juxtaposition in age gaps between those of its male and female protagonists, even when keeping backstories part of the same, original team.

Women in Overwatch, it seems, can vary slightly among body types provided they're a youthful, attractive complement to an aging assemblage of grizzled men.

copper.jpg


// Mod Edit:

I think the OP's point is very worth discussing, so if you're here to just complain that anyone is bringing up this topic, please leave the thread, but I'm adding this to help with some lore clarifications along with listing out everyone's age and nationality since people keep asking:

To help with a bit of the confusion I'm reading, I've listed out the ages, gender, and nationalities of each of the characters, along with listing who were the original members of Overwatch.

Original Members:

Gabriel "Reaper" Reyes, Male, Age Unknown, Mexican-American
Jack "Soldier 76" Morrison, Male, Age Unknown, American
Ana Amari, Female, Hypothetically Deceased, Egyptian
Torbjörn Lindholm, Male, 57, Swedish
Reinhardt Wilhelm, Male, 61, German

New Members (Joined over the course of the following 30 years), also includes villains and other characters who aren't part of Overwatch:

Hana "D.Va" Song, 19, Female, South Korean
Jamison "Junkrat" Fawkes, Male, 25, Australian
Lúcio Correia dos Santos, Male, 26, Brazilian
Lena "Tracer" Oxton, Female, 26, British [Note: Was in a time vortex for "months", afterwards would disappear for "hours" and "days" at a time until Winston invented her chronal accelerator.]
Aleksandra "Zarya" Zaryanova, Female, 28, Russian
Satya "Symmetra" Vaswani, Female, 28, Indian
Mei-Ling Zhou, Female, 31, Chinese [Was in cryogenic stasis for 10+ years.]
Fareeha "Pharah" Amari, Female, 32, Egyptian
Amélie "Widowmaker" Lacroix, Female, 33, French [Had her heart rate slowed down, which is said to dampen her emotion and turn her skin blue. It doesn't explicitly mention slowed aging, but you can make your own judgement.]
Genji Shimada, Male, 35, Japanese
Jesse McCree, Male, 37, American
Angela "Mercy" Ziegler, Female, 37, Swiss
Hanzo Shimada, Male, 38, Japanese
Mako "Roadhog" Rutledge, Male, 48, Australian

Robots:
Bastion, Genderless, 30
Zenyatta, Male, 20, Nepalese

Gorillas:
Winston, Male, 29, Outer Space
 

Ivan 3414

Member
Yeah...it's kind of ridiculous. Reminds me of fighting games, with the lengths they will go to physically de-age older female characters.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Sombra is probably going to be the first older female based on speculation even if her rumored concept art doesn't make her look particularly readable on that front. Then again the only character that has an explicitly visually old look is Torbjörn; everyone else that could be called "old" are masked up. The game still prioritizes style across all characters no matter the age.
 
You're right on that. Too bad it's nothing new(just look at Soulcalibur as an example).

We subconsciously see female beauty as a part of self-worth, and growing old can break that illusion. That's why it seems common in popular media to see more old men than old women.

EDIT: What we can do, though is keep asking for better representation. Ask Blizzard for even more representation with more characters.
 
You're not wrong, but at least optimistically you can see this as baby steps. Both for the publisher and the target audience.
 
I've noticed Fighting games suffer from this as well. I think the only one that comes to mind with old women in it is the Power Instinct franchise. The original Bloody Roar had a middle-aged woman with a power lifter physique, but she hasn't appeared in the series since the first game.
 

Bulk_Rate

Member
So just like TV news Anchors (Judy Woodruf aside) and most films. Agreed it is BS and I hadn't bothered to read the backstory for the characters - so the fact that each female has an excuse for their youth is particularly jarring.

Someone should reskin Widowmaker as Malory Archer with VA lines from the show.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I think this is a very good point and should definitely be brought up. There were complaints about the lack of body types for women after the initial game reveal, and they seemed to add Zarya and redesign Mei from her initial concept art outline in response.

Pharah's mother was originally in Overwatch 1.0, but thankfully she's dead so the game can sport Pharah, keeping her essentially the same character but more youthful and easier on the eyes.

That said, I wanted to note that Pharah's mother might be incoming soon, and given that Pharah is 32, she will presumably be well into her 50s at least.
 

ACE 1991

Member
Interesting argument, I hadn't realized this stuff about the backstories of the female characters in the game. Blizzard absolutely knows what they're doing by keeping the female characters within the realm of "waifu-bait," as you put it.
 

mrqs

Member
Amazing and insightful. This is the kind of stuff that we don't even think about that much, but it has an great impact in our culture.

Hopefully Blizzard adds some older women in the game.
 
Sombra is probably going to be the first older female based on speculation even if her rumored concept art doesn't make her look particularly readable on that front. Then again the only character that has an explicitly visually old look is Torbjörn; everyone else that could be called "old" are masked up. The game still prioritizes style across all characters no matter the age.
Idk, Soldier 76 has white hair, and helmet less Reinhardt is obviously old.

Either way, I agree OP. And hopefully this post about Sombra will be right too!
 

Cubas

Member
I had not noticed this, and yeah, that's something we need to talk about.

Sadly this is not exclusive to Overwatch (or videogames), as it's very rare to see older women in Hollywood or TV.
 

charsace

Member
Sombra is probably going to be the first older female based on speculation even if her rumored concept art doesn't make her look particularly readable on that front. Then again the only character that has an explicitly visually old look is Torbjörn; everyone else that could be called "old" are masked up. The game still prioritizes style across all characters no matter the age.
Reinhardt without his helmet looks old. Hanzo looks middle aged and so does 76 and Reaper with out masks.

Body types of the women don't really vary that much. Zarya is really the only one with a different body type.
 

DrArchon

Member
Mercy is the one that really gets me. She's almost forty but doesn't looks like she's that far beyond her late twenties/early thirties. No explanation either other than "the wonders of modern medicine" I suppose (which in that case, why does ANYONE look old?).

Hopefully when more heroes get added Blizzard adds some less traditionally attractive women to the roster. Or at least some robot women (and not the ME3 Edi kind).
 
It's hard for me to knock the game too much for this considering how diverse its cast is, but I definitely hope they address the few notable gaps with future characters.

In fact, the rumored Sombra character sounds like it very well may be an older woman. That would be great.
 

Zaventem

Member
Pharah's mom isn't dead. She's rumored the new support character. Also i'm glad we've reached the point where we're bitching about mid 30s women.
 
For whatever reason, I always got the feeling Mercy was intended to be older and then just aged down. Though I might only think this because I saw fanart of her and a younger Soldier 76.
 

Ivan 3414

Member
That said, I wanted to note that Pharah's mother might be incoming soon, and given that Pharah is 32, she will presumably be well into her 50s at least.

Considering that Pharah's mother is supposedly dead, I'm willing to bet they'll either cover her face ala Reaper or give her some magical youth serum to make her look not a day older than her daughter. There hasn't been any sign to believe Blizzard will actually have a 50-year-old-looking female playable.
 

mindsale

Member
I wrote this in part because I thought the youth contrivances were lazy writing to keep characters attractive, and in part to light a fire under Blizzard's ass to add more characters ASAP.
 

Sou Da

Member
Pharah's mom isn't dead. She's rumored the new support character. Also i'm glad we've reached the point where we're bitching about mid 30s women.

What supports this other than them both being snipers?

And also I agree with the OP, it's really transparent waifu-bait on their part.
 
and they seemed to add Zarya and redesign Mei from her initial concept art outline in response.
And yet the back of Mei's thick coat conveniently flips up so you can see her ass in what are basically yoga pants. Blizzard designers just can't help themselves.
 

godofrawr

Banned
Baby steps folks...

Overwatch is one of the few games that has respectable gender and racial diversity. Hell, even Mei is the type of female character you wouldn't have seen a few years ago because she isn't overly sexualized like most (ignoring Tumblr and DA).

Yes, there is a problem, but maybe jump down the throats of the games that don't try at all, vs the ones that are at least putting in some effort.
 
Considering that Pharah's mother is supposedly dead, I'm willing to bet they'll either cover her face ala Reaper or give her some magical youth serum to make her look not a day older than her daughter. There hasn't been any sign to believe Blizzard will actually have a 50-year-old-looking female playable.
I hope not :/ imagining it now, they could have a really striking character design if they go the older route.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Idk, Soldier 76 has white hair, and helmet less Reinhardt is obviously old.

Either way, I agree OP. And hopefully this post about Sombra will be right too!

Yeah, this is why I'm going to assume that she will have an alternate outfit that shows her unmasked based on how they've been doing it for other characters (if the look in those few pieces that have been floating around is what they're going for). In terms of the way they publicize all the characters I'd say only Torbjörn is owning the old look wholesale, and Soldier 76 too in a way. I do hope Blizzard takes it all into account for future characters.
 

Griss

Member
Both men and women like playing as beautiful women, and Blizzard knows this. Looks how they deal with female races in WoW. I'm sure they have data that backs up their designs.

This:

I found it amusing that for all its posturing on inclusivity among body types (which is essentially six Barbies, a thicker Barbie in a parka, and a short-haired weightlifter), the game sports a glaring juxtaposition in age gaps between those of its male and female protagonists, even when keeping backstories part of the same, original team.

was always just feel-good marketing bullshit.
 

Illucio

Banned
I believe one of the upcoming characters is a female robot.

But yeah we are severely lacking any young men in this game.
Let's bring these kids backs:

Give them a gauntlet, keep them young, or would older people fighting kids is considered a no no?
 

mrqs

Member
That said, I wanted to note that Pharah's mother might be incoming soon, and given that Pharah is 32, she will presumably be well into her 50s at least.

If those hints are true, Pharah's mother don't even shows her face? It would be an safe way to not show an old woman.

UmerEGT.png
 
Both men and women like playing as beautiful women, and Blizzard knows this. Looks how they deal with female races in WoW. I'm sure they have data that backs up their designs.
You do know that older women can be beautiful right?

Also, Junkrat and Roadhog both clearly break the "well everyone is beautiful regardless of age" thing. It is just ageism directed at women.
If those hints are true, Pharah's mother don't even shows her face? It would be an safe way to not show an old woman.

UmerEGT.png
I'm still not convinced by that in development screenshot because the pose is literally Widow's. Would be disappointing if they covered her face though.
 

pastrami

Member
Baby steps folks...

Overwatch is one of the few games that has respectable gender and racial diversity. Hell, even Mei is the type of female character you wouldn't have seen a few years ago because she isn't overly sexualized like most (ignoring Tumblr and DA).

Yes, there is a problem, but maybe jump down the throats of the games that don't try at all, vs the ones that are at least putting in some effort.

Overwatch having a fairly diverse group of characters doesn't make it immune to criticism, and if anything, highlights how far we still have to go. I mean, we're talking about one of the shining examples of diversity in gaming not featuring a woman who looks a day over 30. We'll see what the rumored new character brings, but it is something noteworthy.
 
Top Bottom