CadetMahoney
Member
I agree 90%
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PC gaming will never be taken seriously until it fixes the bs
- Thread starter Scrabble
- Start date
I agree 90%
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
This is insane, but I kind of feel the same way.
derExperte
Member
It's interesting to note that most of the 'PC elitists are so mean / PC gaming is hard' posters never show up in the Steam thread. No one will talk down to anyone for having an old PC or some problem in there. You couldn't wish for a friendlier atmosphere. Just don't mention Origin or Uplay.
I got into PC gaming maybe five or six years ago and I'm about ready to exit. I'm not a huge fan of PC centric games like RTS and FPS stuff. What really got me in was the cheap games.
Five years ago I was in undergrad. I had time and no money so messing around with drivers, Xpadder, and key configs was worth the trade off. I'm in grad school now, so I have a little more money but no time.
I found myself with four hours to spare last Friday night, so I decided to boot up Burnout Paradise for the first time because I had heard good things. The game crashes before I even hit the splash logos. After some research I find out that I need to run in compatibility mode, which gets me a little further before crash. After more research I find out that I need to disable my God damn webcam drivers for this game to work, and even then it crashed before I could get into gameplay. I've given up on ever getting it to run.
So I give up and boot up Dark Souls for the first time on this computer. It's not recognizing my 360 controller. Burnout's menus recognized it but Dark Souls doesn't. After some Googling I find out that disabling my mouse and keyboard might fix the problem.
All of my free time evaporated troubleshooting.
The next night I ran Tekken Tag 2 on one of my consoles and I was playing in seconds.
I don't care about framerates or resolutions, graphics, or even paying for online multiplayer (I'm not big on online play anyway). A hit in all of those departments is now worthwhile for me to have a seamless gaming experience. Unless something changes, I doubt I'll ever upgrade my PC with gaming in mind.
Five years ago I was in undergrad. I had time and no money so messing around with drivers, Xpadder, and key configs was worth the trade off. I'm in grad school now, so I have a little more money but no time.
I found myself with four hours to spare last Friday night, so I decided to boot up Burnout Paradise for the first time because I had heard good things. The game crashes before I even hit the splash logos. After some research I find out that I need to run in compatibility mode, which gets me a little further before crash. After more research I find out that I need to disable my God damn webcam drivers for this game to work, and even then it crashed before I could get into gameplay. I've given up on ever getting it to run.
So I give up and boot up Dark Souls for the first time on this computer. It's not recognizing my 360 controller. Burnout's menus recognized it but Dark Souls doesn't. After some Googling I find out that disabling my mouse and keyboard might fix the problem.
All of my free time evaporated troubleshooting.
The next night I ran Tekken Tag 2 on one of my consoles and I was playing in seconds.
I don't care about framerates or resolutions, graphics, or even paying for online multiplayer (I'm not big on online play anyway). A hit in all of those departments is now worthwhile for me to have a seamless gaming experience. Unless something changes, I doubt I'll ever upgrade my PC with gaming in mind.
I've also been PC gaming for decades and you're right, there are hardly any issues in comparison. You don't know pain unless you had to figure out if your game needed expanded or extended memory :O .
Yet there is still a higher technical skill/tinkering and general BS that consoles and handheld/cell phone gaming doesn't have. PC is still he highest barrier to entry in terms of complexity and issues in gaming. There is still a bit of BS.
I really agree with these two fine gentlemen. I've been saving for quite some time to get some components to have a PC to play Current-gen titles, I don't need the best specs and I'm not able to purchase a really expensive PC but that never stopped me from playing great titles on PC and having great fun with one of the most relaxed and friendly communities.
I welcome anyone curious about PC Gaming to check that thread. And I played most of my games on my PS3 this gen but like I said having a PC that can't run Crysis 3 or Metro: LL on Ultra doesn't stop you from having fun.
You can cut down on the vast majority of bullshit by:
1. Meeting the minimum/recommended specs in the first place
2. Staying current on your drivers
3. Staying current on Windows/Windows update.
If you do that, problems where you have to spend time looking for a solution are rare.
dark_prinny
Banned
Yeah fair enough.
What I'm getting at is that "lol I love when shit breaks!" and "it's a tradeoff that comes with high customizability and it doesn't bother me" are two different things and quite a few people have replied with the former.
A lot of you missed the point of the topic entirely. Whether or not you personally enjoy or don't care about having to solve issues is largely irrelevant, the fact is that these issues is what's keeping pc from being as mainstream as consoles. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter how insignificant you may deem the issues to be, they are keeping the pc from being anything other than a niche gaming device. Which is a shame because the highs of pc gaming are extraordinary. The fact that pc's have made such great strides in allowing universal controller support, hdtv living room play, and ease of steam, but still have to deal with the jank of getting games to function properly is something that needs to be addressed. Unless steam os fixes these issues, than I stand by my statement that pc's will never be taken as seriously as consoles. It's really not that controversial a statement.
Also a lot of you misconstrued what I meant by "tinkering." I'm in no way saying editing graphics options, fov, etc to be bad things, those are of course the pros to pc gaming. I'm talking about solving issues that pertain to getting a game working or functioning properly. The fact that's still an issue is a big problem. For those who love pc gaming, like I do, you'd want these issues to be largely non-existent. It's why we wait months for a pc port, suffer with broken games at launch, and shoddy optimization.
Also a lot of you misconstrued what I meant by "tinkering." I'm in no way saying editing graphics options, fov, etc to be bad things, those are of course the pros to pc gaming. I'm talking about solving issues that pertain to getting a game working or functioning properly. The fact that's still an issue is a big problem. For those who love pc gaming, like I do, you'd want these issues to be largely non-existent. It's why we wait months for a pc port, suffer with broken games at launch, and shoddy optimization.
The issue is when Skyrim, or more recently GTA V freezes on my PS3 I'm pretty much screwed.
On PC chances are there might be a solution to the problem. "Love" is probably the wrong term, even I used that on the first page. It's mostly a satisfying feeling knowing you just fixed something, whereas if the same problem occurs on your console you might as well just give up and hope it doesn't happen again.
I think you nail on something really important here, time. When i was in my teens, i had all the time in the world to fuck with Quake 2 mods and all sorts of weird shit, installing Homer Simpsons models and Action Quake etc. Thus all the tinkering/work/whatever you want to call it was acceptable to some degree, there was even some pride in getting some strange to work.
But now that i am older i just dont have the time to "tinker", i did not buy a game on Steam to go on some grand adventure where i spend time just getting the product to work properly, if you enjoy that, good for you. But i view games as entertainment, not projects or dead patients i have to work on just to get them to work.
The only company i know wont cause me any problems is Blizzard, regardless of their recent quality in Diablo 3 and HotS, their games always work, they are tab friendly and run well. So i generally stick with them, not just because of their quality but also having the confidence that i wont have to work just to play.
If you enjoy crafting your own perfect PC paradise and love tinkering that is great, i dont even mean that sarcastically or anything. But surely people can understand that not everyone wants to do that? They want to..play the games? Is that not the point? Is there a meta game here to get the latest Bethsda game to run for 1 hour straight without crashing?
TheLaughingStock
Member
PC gaming has to be taken seriously. It's the biggest global platform.
To keep it honest and real, I just went through my entire Steam library to recall issues I had. I will list the problem candidates:
Dark Souls (required modding and a some GFLW headaches w/ Win 8)
Batman Arkham Asylum (physx needed to be reinstalled from game folder)
Max Payne 3 (Rockstar Social Network would not let me play until I reinstalled It and set it to run as admin)
Rage (had to disable one of my dual cards for thr first month to get decent performance)
Darksiders 2 (had to use an external program to firce Vsync until they added it to prevent frequent tearing)
Chivalry (wanted to just play with friends in a private game and gave up due to obscure set up bullshit)
Terraria (required port forwarding to play with friends)
Walking Dead (would not load my save to next chaoter but I found a fix to restore it)
You Dont Know Jack (no controller suport, had to set up Joy 2 play to play w/ comtrollers with a friend)
Devil May Cry 4 (had to tinker with stuff to get full screen and controller support working)
E.Y.E Divine Cybermancy (never could figure out how to olay with friends due to set up bullshit)
AI War (ditto)
So, there, I went through my entire Steam list of 422 games. I came up with exactly 12 that gave me problems. That is hardly constant problems. In fact it is exaxtly 2.8% of my games I have had some sort of problem with, however minor.
Dark Souls (required modding and a some GFLW headaches w/ Win 8)
Batman Arkham Asylum (physx needed to be reinstalled from game folder)
Max Payne 3 (Rockstar Social Network would not let me play until I reinstalled It and set it to run as admin)
Rage (had to disable one of my dual cards for thr first month to get decent performance)
Darksiders 2 (had to use an external program to firce Vsync until they added it to prevent frequent tearing)
Chivalry (wanted to just play with friends in a private game and gave up due to obscure set up bullshit)
Terraria (required port forwarding to play with friends)
Walking Dead (would not load my save to next chaoter but I found a fix to restore it)
You Dont Know Jack (no controller suport, had to set up Joy 2 play to play w/ comtrollers with a friend)
Devil May Cry 4 (had to tinker with stuff to get full screen and controller support working)
E.Y.E Divine Cybermancy (never could figure out how to olay with friends due to set up bullshit)
AI War (ditto)
So, there, I went through my entire Steam list of 422 games. I came up with exactly 12 that gave me problems. That is hardly constant problems. In fact it is exaxtly 2.8% of my games I have had some sort of problem with, however minor.
Yup.
There are so many people who are incidental PC gamers now that laptops are getting stronger. You can run tons of games on your average laptop these days, from indies to older titles to stuff like League of Legends. You don't need a fatass GPU or anything; there's a whole world of games worth exploring and discussing that still fall under the category of PC gaming, but people always like to bring up problematic AAA console ports when they frame their arguments.
No, I think a lot of people are taking issue with the fundamental premise of your argument. You are vastly overstating the frequency and scope of these problems while ignoring the fact that, in any event, the console platforms are moving towards a more PC-oriented approach to software development, distribution and maintenance.
Trent Strong
Banned
Yeah, PC gaming still has a ton of problems. People who think that the PC will take over the living room or beat out the consoles are delusional. Plus, a lot of games now, lilke Crysis 3 and Dead Space 3, aren't even on Steam. And the number of games that aren't on Steam will probably increase over time as EA and Ubisoft only put games on their own digital services. Not to mention that the Xbox One controversy proved that a lot of people still want to buy their games on a disk, and not digitally.
Agreed, come join us in the Steam thread.
We are always up for some lighthearted discussion, troubleshooting, and hardware advice.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=701650
It really is the best place on GAF.
Its an open platform, no one is stopping you from loading up those distribution services natively, through Wine, or dual-booting Windows.
Both Dice, Blizzard, and, I believe, Riot have all expressed interest in Linux ports.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
I gather OP never had to configure an autoexec.bat to run a game on strict memory parameters. Gaming on PC has come such a long way since the 90s than I can't help but laugh at the face of those who think it's "complicated".
If by 'modding' you mean dezipping an archive and modifying three parameters in a txt... yeah...
Jesus.
If by 'modding' you mean dezipping an archive and modifying three parameters in a txt... yeah...
Jesus.
derExperte
Member
Guess he's hanging out until his 360 has booted up. Damn dashboard, so slow these days. And seriously, my PC (W8, SSD) starts faster than my PS3.
I will happily talk about and defend SS3 against the misguided (but always friendly) SteamGAFers.
Why do you think it's niche? It isn't, companies make HUGE amounts of money with PC games, some of them exclusives. That's why people have a problem with the title of this thread.
Ubisoft releases everything on Steam. And EA.... they like doing sales of their older games on Steam. Maybe they'll come back one day.
lol? Seriously it's a thread about PC gaming. You just want the console players to have a discussion between themselves about settings and tweaking. What?
Do what I just did. Go through your entire Steam library and tally up the games that gave you these sort of problems then divide by your total number if games. I would be shocked if it were over 10%. I'll bet it is under 5%.
It's like a game before the real game!
I like it more often than not. It's only annoying when a new driver introduces fixes for one game but breaks another.
Unfortunately, customers aren't comparing the ease of PC gaming now to PC gaming then, so your point is irrelevant.
petran79
Banned
only regarding MS-DOS and Windows.
The Amiga was more simple. you just pop in the floppy and play the game.
I was a Mac gamer in the mid 90s and I still remember having to actually bypass the Finder entirely to get Pirates! to load on my 16Mhz, 4 megabyte LCII (it was way too slow with virtual memory turned on). Those were some good times.
Yeah, I was trying to be charitable in my list. I still only came to less than 3% of my games that required some sort of extra effort.
Damn, I miss the Amiga....and once in a while you'd run into a stumble there too, but very rarely...
It's only EA and Blizzard that do this. Pretty sure Ubisoft games are available through steam.
fvng
Member
I've been gaming 20 years as well, and if there's anyone who can properly execute it, it's Valve. Besides my message went over your head, for some reason you think Steam Machines will be limited to pre-built PCs, but you're neglecting to acknowledge that you will be able to turn any PC into a steam machine with their OS that they are freely distributing. That message is getting lost on you.
SirMossyBloke
Member
If you think he said it was hard then you are simply not that smart.
Ubi / EA fragmentation from steam was one of my top annoyances this year. Or last year, I forget when they launched. I can remember some of the optimism for a competing platform and price wars. Please EA.
I think the ability to tinker on the PC adds a level of complexity that isn't appreciable for most people. Who buys a console game, only to find that there are a bunch of troubleshooting steps you need to take before it'll open. That's the reality of PC games for some people.
Always-honest
Banned
This is basicly what's holding me back too. I'm sure it has gotten better, but imo windows still makes every pc a living hell. Sure, you can fix anything if you know your way around... I guess. Maybe it's even more fun when you really know your way around. But i don't have the patience for that.
It's weird, the problems people have with PC gaming are the ones most likely to get frustrated by it, it seems. I can't say I've had any real problem the last few years.
That said, I choose fairly standard parts, Intel CPU, Nvidia GPU and keep my system free of crapware, so maybe that's why.
That said, I choose fairly standard parts, Intel CPU, Nvidia GPU and keep my system free of crapware, so maybe that's why.
eot
Banned
PC gaming isn't "mainstream" because there aren't billion dollar marketing campaigns pushing it into people's faces. That doesn't stop LoL from having 5 million concurrent players.
Let's get something straight. PC gaming has been going strong for 30 years. There are hundreds of millions of PC gamers worldwide. It is not some unknown newcomer that needs to be "taken seriously" in order to succeed. We are far, far past that point.
Having said that, it is true that technical problems on PC suck, and they are a bigger issue than on console.
Having said that, it is true that technical problems on PC suck, and they are a bigger issue than on console.
Felix Lighter
Member
PC gaming really isn't as small a niche as some apparently think that it is. Surprisingly enough, plenty of average human beings have worked through these almost insurmountable issues.
You just have to understand the concept of "gaming platform." Sometimes, a tiny bit of setup is required. Not an great amount, usually, if the programmers do their jobs. And sometimes the publishers don't do as great a support job as they might. But that's part of it, unfortunately. Small bit of risk, but great gains, and usually a much more open system.
Windows is only half of it. Couple that with the sometimes conflicting GPU / Motherboard / CPU issues and it can be hell for an unlucky PC build.
What counts as exotic PC parts?
I don't know how, but I have yet to see an Nvidia based PC not have issues at one point or another. I kid you not.
Tinkering to improve an experience is one thing. Tinkering just to get a game to work out of the box is unacceptable.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
That is true, but my 360 RROD'd and I had to look up the number to call Microsoft and replace it. Does that mean all of console gaming is hindered by hardware failure? I mean, it took something more than Plug-in/Play and I had to make 4 phone calls, so obviously it's not worth the hassle.
Like someone else said, some people should stick to iphone gaming. Even then you might need to GASP visit an apple store if something goes wrong.
I love it when someone's true colors come out after a few posts. The amount of insecurity you feel about 'consoles vs pc's' is sad and baffling.
It's not exactly a minority or fearfully withheld opinion or anything. It's said in every PC thread.
I dont remember when was last time i had any of those problems, seriously i cant remember.
The only thing would be tinkering with .ini files, but it was not required by any game ive played [except maybe to lock to 60fps in some UE games], i just prefer to setup games to my likings.
I have not changed my drivers for almost 2 years.
Does the Skyrim / Crossfire issue count? I spent more hours on trying to fix the issue than I did playing the game, and eventually I quit.
PhysX is the plague to me since I only run ATI. And I'd say about 1/3rd of games on the PC have relatively poor optimisation.
Sometimes the 'smart' gaming keyboards can cause problems too.
Interestingly they seem to arise in LoL almost exclusively now that I think about it though.
I can remember back in the day you used to have readmes or manuals with lists of GPUs that just did not work with a game. Or had huge glaring issues with a game. It's not really an ATI / Nvidia generation thing though.