Honestly, the fanboyism on NeoGAF feels like it's only getting worse. My big problem with the arguments made is that refusing refunds for games that have been played for little to no amount of time has no practical value beyond ensuring that Sony doesn't have to lose a sale. It's inherently anti-consumer and anyone who thinks it's good is holding an opinion that is inherently harmful to them and every other consumer in this industry.
I disagree. By letting scammers take advantage of situations like this it encourages companies to be less consumer friendly in the future when they take a look at where they lost revenue each year.
Its not about defending any company, the exact same arguments would hold equally as much water, had this happened on Xbox or Wii (or Ouya). Stop trying to turn this into a shitty console war thread.
wwwwwwwwwaaayyy to easy to purchase something from the store. and No password for purchases seriously.. do people not make mistakes or have curious nieces nephews little bro or sis who might just get a hold of your ps4 when your out and spend all your cash away? God only hope they ask for a password when you store your credit card and try to use it. Also it was stated on the PSN forums that DS4 is supported on ps3 and pc but says nothing about controlling to consoles?
There is a password system:
As an additional safeguard, you may wish to enable the option to require a password on checkout from the PlayStation Store. If this option is enabled, every time a purchase is made, you will be prompted to enter yourPlayStation Network password in order for a purchase to be successful. https://support.us.playstation.com/...e-password-at-checkout-from-playstation-store
You are right, his PS4 and his PS4 controller are both turned on! How would he know they work together? When Cerny unveiled the PS4, i was under the assumption that it was self aware and would know why someone was using it.
Again for the ones saying how he couldn't have noticed his ps4 turned on there are plenty of things reasons the ps4 could not be right next to him, or he had music on and didn't hear it power up, plenty of things could happen if you take the time to actually think instead of running to Sony's protection.. calm down they ain't paying you to defend them. Anyways to OP sorry bout the little rant there a lot of jerks on the internet who let others do the thinking for them, i really do hope you get your money back, should be no reason they couldn't it was a simple mistake which could literal happen to a lot of folks.
You are a again projecting, and trying to turn this into a shitty console war thread, stop it. Its not about any company. Also do refrain from calling people jerks, especially since you do not know anyone here.
He knew his PS4 was on, that is what the TC made aware of, he just assumed the PS4 would magically not take his inputs.
By no means am i saying the ps4 is a bad system, matter of fact its pretty cool, but theres alotof improvements they can make with how the online store works to avoid thigns like this in the future, being arrogant and an idjit of it wont help Sony improve
Yeah, like the optional, free, credit card password requirement. Like spending 2 seconds of your precious gamer time to check if you PS4 is indeed controlling your PS4?
Man some of these responses are just asinine. Like are the Sony fanboys
not saying all of you are who disagreed with op
heads so far up the companies butt that you cant even see the problem the damn system has? wwwwwwwwwaaayyy to easy to purchase something from the store. and No password for purchases seriously.. do people not make mistakes or have curious nieces nephews little bro or sis who might just get a hold of your ps4 when your out and spend all your cash away? God only hope they ask for a password when you store your credit card and try to use it. Also it was stated on the PSN forums that DS4 is supported on ps3 and pc but says nothing about controlling to consoles?
Also speaking of controlling two consoles never in my gaming life have I've seen something so ridiculous, of course he wouldn't know. Again for the ones saying how he couldn't have noticed his ps4 turned on there are plenty of things reasons the ps4 could not be right next to him, or he had music on and didn't hear it power up, plenty of things could happen if you take the time to actually think instead of running to Sony's protection.. calm down they ain't paying you to defend them. Anyways to OP sorry bout the little rant there a lot of jerks on the internet who let others do the thinking for them, i really do hope you get your money back, should be no reason they couldn't it was a simple mistake which could literal happen to a lot of folks.
By no means am i saying the ps4 is a bad system, matter of fact its pretty cool, but theres alotof improvements they can make with how the online store works to avoid thigns like this in the future, being arrogant and an idjit of it wont help Sony improve
What websites are you juniors coming from making these terrible comments? I mean Wtf? First of all, No one is defending Sony but showing the stupidity of the person. If I happen to work at GameStop and someone ask for a refund in something they themselves fucked up, all of a sudden I'm defending GameStop for saying no? People do that shit all the time. Not saying his friend is lying but he friend obviously caused this issue on himself. A refund is not obligated in this situation Ugh....
Fact of the matter is there is a password protected checkout (which these post towards the bottom has said).
The DS4 is able to be detected by the PS3, however is not stated to work for every PS3 game especially Dark Souls because there is no advertising for it. The fact that the PS3 can pick up the controller but the controller is unresponsive to any of the PS3 features just shows that a connection is there, full usage isn't. The nerve of you to sit here and act like Sony fanboys are the only ones who do it is ridiculous.
Oh I definitely agree with the 2 step system. Would make me feel a lot more secure with all the FIFA hacks and whatnot. Uaving it on my Gmail and Android feels good. Not that it would have helped in this case though
As for the password on purchase? It already exists, just need to activate it. The mistake there is they should have it on by default, while giving the user the option to turn it off. That way it's more secure, and it's the consumers discretion if they want to use it or not
Honestly, the fanboyism on NeoGAF feels like it's only getting worse. My big problem with the arguments made is that refusing refunds for games that have been played for little to no amount of time has no practical value beyond ensuring that Sony doesn't have to lose a sale. It's inherently anti-consumer and anyone who thinks it's good is holding an opinion that is inherently harmful to them and every other consumer in this industry.
Aweful thread titel! Dont see why Sony should refund anything. Dont use your PS4 controllers on PS4 unless The PS4 is turned off and unplugged from the wall!
There was nothing "magical" about it. He assumed that using a wired data connection would override the wireless one (since the wired one was working, after all.)
That was all. This is not a stupid assumption, and if you genuinely can't see that then I don't even know what to say. It turned out to be wrong, sure, but it equally could have been fine. I sure hope you never make a totally innocent mistake leading you to lose your hard-earned money while a bunch of people defend a company worth billions of dollars and call you an idiot for having made a different assumption than you would have done.
Honestly, the fanboyism on NeoGAF feels like it's only getting worse. My big problem with the arguments made is that refusing refunds for games that have been played for little to no amount of time has no practical value beyond ensuring that Sony doesn't have to lose a sale. It's inherently anti-consumer and anyone who thinks it's good is holding an opinion that is inherently harmful to them and every other consumer in this industry.
I disagree. By letting scammers take advantage of situations like this it encourages companies to be less consumer friendly in the future when they take a look at where they lost revenue each year.
What scam involves the refunding of content that was not played? What scam can take advantage of that? Most importantly, what scam is so grave that it necessitates the punishment of good customers to hit the bad ones?
Yeah, sorry - no matter how you spin this, you're trying to justify anti-consumer practices. Like someone said, I can get a refund for something that I intended to buy at retail, let alone something I didn't intend to buy. Pray tell, what makes an unplayed PSN game a notable exception to this? What value has been gained? Simply, it's just an arbitrary system that seeks to hurt everyone to harm a minority of existing potential scammers.
If it hasn't been done in this thread yet,Can someone with a ps4 and ps3 side by side check to see if they can control both at the same time? Just don't buy anything.
So many accidental purchasing on ps4 at the moment, time to turn on the password at checkout option i think, even then still my fault if i do something wrong.
There was nothing "magical" about it. He assumed that using a wired data connection would override the wireless one (since the wired one was working, after all.)
That was all. This is not a stupid assumption, and if you genuinely can't see that then I don't even know what to say. I sure hope you never make a totally innocent mistake leading you to lose your hard-earned money while a bunch of people defend a company worth billions of dollars and call you an idiot for having made a different assumption than you would have done.
Ive yet to lose my hard earned money, simply because they are hard earned money, its something i, and millions of people around the world protect as best we can and not make dumb assumptions. If you work hard for something, you tend to caretake it.
You still have not answered why this user could not have spend 3 seconds of his gamer life (and you know how busy we are!) to check if his PS4 is taking any inputs. Why are those 3 seconds so precious now?
At least Ghost Trick had the decency to admit that the user fucked up, but he is also right that there was no consent (at least if we were to believe the person in question), i wonder if you can do that, admit that the user fucked up. I doubt it
It wasn't idiocy, it was a perfectly reasonable mistake that half the people in this thread could have made. It was just a series of unfortunate events, really.
You still have not answered why this user could not have spend 3 seconds of his gamer life (and you know how busy we are!) to check if his PS4 is taking any inputs. Why are those 3 seconds so precious now?
Because why would you? A controller controlling two consoles at once is something that simply won't even occur to a whole lot of people before reading this thread.
Okay, fine, you would have done it, but so what? Someone else didn't and there's no reason why Sony should be withholding their money for what is a flaw in their system. However "stupid" you might have to be to fall victim to the flaw, it is still a flaw, and Sony should accept that.
Ive yet to lose my hard earned money, simply because they are hard earned money, its something i, and millions of people around the world protect as best we can and not make dumb assumptions. If you work hard for something, you tend to caretake it.
You still have not answered why this user could not have spend 3 seconds of his gamer life (and you know how busy we are!) to check if his PS4 is taking any inputs. Why are those 3 seconds so precious now?
At least Ghost Trick had the decency to admit that the user fucked up, but he is also right that there was no consent (at least if we were to believe the person in question), i wonder if you can do that, admit that the user fucked up. I doubt it
Your argument seems to be that Sony should actually be punishing the TC, rather than the idea that the TC should be able to get a refund. Blanket final-sale policies for Sony are simply too archaic to support, especially when used as a weapon to punish "irresponsible people."
I agree that Sony should refund the money, it's not like the people that were screwed by the events are here on GAF being misleading about it in the thread title.
If the thread creator lost his money I'd say fuck him for trying to game the wrath of GAF, but then again I have a big issue with misleading thread titles to generate controversy.
There was nothing "magical" about it. He assumed that using a wired data connection would override the wireless one (since the wired one was working, after all.)
That was all. This is not a stupid assumption, and if you genuinely can't see that then I don't even know what to say. I sure hope you never make a totally innocent mistake leading you to lose your hard-earned money while a bunch of people defend a company worth billions of dollars and call you an idiot for having made a different assumption than you would have done.
Actually it is stupid to assume the wireless connection would magically stop working when plugged in via USB to another non supported device. Connection to PS4 takes precedence>>>>>>>>>> over connection to any other device. When DS4 is synced to PS4, it assumes any connection via USB is for charging only because that is its core function. When plugged into a USB port of a PC or PS3, it is seen as a generic controller.
Connection to PS4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connection to any other device.
Disable connection to PS4, it loses it core function and turns into a generic USB controller and when plugged into another device like PS3, it just serves that purpose and does not sync with PS4.
I'll never understand not turning on password protection for purchases. It's like leaving your bank account unlocked on your laptop or something. Seems insane to me.
See, a lot of these replies sound more like people who are upset at the TC for blaming the mistake on Sony, for making a misleading thread title, etc. etc. etc. Not because there isn't a valid reason to ask for a refund - which "I didn't intend to buy these items" qualifies as one of the best reasons imaginable. I don't know where the idea that refunds are only for mistakes made by the company running the store or making the games, but it's a bad idea. I still don't really 'get' the slippery slope that comes as a result of someone getting a refund for a game from which the consumer gained no value.
It wasn't idiocy, it was a perfectly reasonable mistake that half the people in this thread could have made. It was just a series of unfortunate events, really.
The DS4 doesn't auto-sync, you have to press the PS button, and the PS button doesn't work for the PS3 on the DS4, so there's no reason to press it.
The only way this would really happen is to boot the PS4, with the controller sync'd, change the channel to PS3 and magically assume the PS4 is no long being controlled by the pad.
It's not stupid not to understand how a gamepad can work with both systems, it's stupid to blankly assume how it works and not test to make sure you're not buying stuff.
Because why would you? A controller controlling two consoles at once is something that simply won't even occur to a whole lot of people before reading this thread.
Okay, fine, you would have done it, but so what? Someone else didn't and there's no reason why Sony should be withholding their money for what is a flaw in their system. However "stupid" you might have to be to fall victim to the flaw, it is still a flaw, and Sony should accept that.
Because your credit card information is on that machine!?
Are these 3 seconds that precious to you? Id say your save files, installed games, settings are worth spending 3 seconds of your life, to make sure you dont fuck anything up, let alone your CC information.
Your argument seems to be that Sony should actually be punishing the TC, rather than the idea that the TC should be able to get a refund. Blanket final-sale policies for Sony are simply too archaic to support, especially when used as a weapon to punish "irresponsible people."
There is a password system, that will prevent this very thing.
This passcode will not affect your PSN password. This passcode is mainly used to prevent kids from accessing a main PSN account or pals or other users of the PS4. Think of it like a password that you set up on your user login on a computer. If you have autologin enabled for this account, it will prompt for the passcode when you power on the PS4. It will still try to autologin but will require you to enter the passcode before it loads to the dashboard.
In this situation either the company or the individual is to be "punished", and id say the company has done nothing wrong. The individual acted in a irresponsible way, every precaution that could have been taken, was not. Not a single one.
Actually it is stupid to assume the wireless connection would magically stop working when plugged in via USB to another non supported device. Connection to PS4 takes precedence>>>>>>>>>> over connection to any other device. When DS4 is synced to PS4, it assumes any connection via USB is for charging only because that is its core function. When plugged into a USB port of a PC or PS3, it is seen as a generic controller.
Connection to PS4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connection to any other device.
Disable connection to PS4, it loses it core function and turns into a generic USB controller and when plugged into another device like PS3, it just serves that purpose and does not sync with PS4.
"When DS4 is synced to PS4, it assumes any connection via USB is for charging only..."
Is it really "stupid" to not realise that? It doesn't sound very stupid to me to not know that. That's basically specialist knowledge into the workings of controllers and charging cables that most people simply don't have any reason at all to have.
I have mine require a password, but it is annoying, especially as mine is a lastpass randomly created one, so a pain to type in, and I have to get my iPad out to see it because I can't possibly remember it.
Is it safe enough to turn off the password on the PS4, but leave it on the PSN web? Or are they tied together?
Doesn't the command to enable/disable features such as wireless when connected to usb come from the console/device? For the PS3 to issue these commands to the DS4 wouldn't it have to be synced with the controller first(which it is unable to do)? This is probably the only way the DS4 would had worked on the PS3 since it is likely a byproduct rather than a design choice of the DS4.
Even when wired the DS3 and I believe the Wiimote and other controllers (unless they are recognized as generic USB controllers) have to always be synced first before they will work.
DSII bought Fifa 14? So I guess Dark Souls isn't as hardcore game as GAF makes it out to be.
Honestly though, it's quite funny. Unfortunate, but funny. I'm surprised that this can even happen at all, but it's obviously an oversight on Sony's part, nothing more/
Because your credit card information is on that machine!?
Are these 3 seconds that precious to you? Id say your save files, installed games, settings are worth spending 3 seconds of your life, to make sure you dont fuck anything up, let alone your CC information.
There is a password system, that will prevent this very thing.
In this situation either the company or the individual is to be "punished", and id say the company has done nothing wrong. The individual acted in a irresponsible way, every precaution that could have been taken, was not. Not a single one.
Your reply doesn't address the problem that getting a refund for digital stores is treated like an extremely rare occurrence - because refunding the valuable, honest consumers will lead to them refunding dishonest consumers. Refunds are a concept we've had for a pretty long dang time, and this is the first time I've ever heard of a refund being used to punish a corporation. The fact of the matter is that Sony giving a refund out would put them back where they were. The purchase shouldn't have happened, and if we can acknowledge that, then TC is being punished by having Sony force the user to stick with the content he purchased for no justifiable reason.
What scam involves the refunding of content that was not played? What scam can take advantage of that? Most importantly, what scam is so grave that it necessitates the punishment of good customers to hit the bad ones?
Yeah, sorry - no matter how you spin this, you're trying to justify anti-consumer practices. Like someone said, I can get a refund for something that I intended to buy at retail, let alone something I didn't intend to buy. Pray tell, what makes an unplayed PSN game a notable exception to this? What value has been gained? Simply, it's just an arbitrary system that seeks to hurt everyone to harm a minority of existing potential scammers.
This is a lie. I mean are you serious? Have you worked retail? Do you realize that there are no refunds or certain things even if you didn't intend on purchasing it. If you buy a new game from GameStop, rip off the plastic and happen to open the case, you will NOT receive a refund. They will allow you to trade it in but refunds are not obligated for them because that is there rules.
The problem you seem to be trying to pin Sony on for being anti-consumer is legitimacy. There is no real system in the world that can tell if this person is telling the truth or lying about their purchases. Out of good faith you can do it, anyone can, and to make it seem like Sony never ever gives refunds is shortsighted as hell. This situation however, as others, they aren't obligated to. There is no fight, No defending etc. How is that hard to understand. If it's anti-consumer to give every single customer a refund for every single reason they could of fucked up, we'll that's beyond just a Sony issue then.
Because your credit card information is on that machine!?
Are these 3 seconds that precious to you? Id say your save files, installed games, settings are worth spending 3 seconds of your life, to make sure you dont fuck anything up, let alone your CC information.
I think you misunderstood my previous post because you've just said the same thing you said before.
I said it would not even occur to some people that this might happen, therefore they wouldn't even consider the idea of "spending 3 seconds of their life" checking for it. It's not that they were lazy, it simply did not occur to them that the system could allow this. Which, yeah, it turns out was wrong, but it's still a flaw of Sony's creation that the system allows this.
"When DS4 is synced to PS4, it assumes any connection via USB is for charging only..."
Is it really "stupid" to not realise that? It doesn't sound very stupid to me to not know that. That's basically specialist knowledge into the workings of controllers and charging cables that most people simply don't have any reason at all to have.
God what I'm trying to say is that a password check should be A default. Not go through options just to turn it on, believe or not some people might make the mistake of over looking that God forbid.
Also it was not my intention to try and turn this into some shitty console war. But the responses on the first few pages were arghh. If this was going on with other companies I'd be damn sure to complain just the same but the thing is I haven't heard such complaints from the others. But I do apologize that wasn't my intention. For the jerk comment if people act like jerks I'll say people are acting like jerks don't give two s*** if I know them or not. Geez n peas people...
Moral of my wall of text. It's your guys attitude to the OP thats the real problem here. It's OK to disagree but don't be a JERK about it.
I'm surprised to see people supporting Sony here. Yes the guys are at fault for not checking their PS4's were off, or using a password, but it looks like both are in the UK and then therefore are both protected by the distance selling law.
Stupidity on the user side does not give Sony the right to break the law, which is what they're doing by refusing a refund. I'd suggest they contact Sony again and mention the distance selling law.
Your reply doesn't address the problem that getting a refund for digital stores is treated like an extremely rare occurrence - because refunding the valuable, honest consumers will lead to them refunding dishonest consumers. Refunds are a concept we've had for a pretty long dang time, and this is the first time I've ever heard of a refund being used to punish a corporation. The fact of the matter is that Sony giving a refund out would put them back where they were. The purchase shouldn't have happened, and if we can acknowledge that, then TC is being punished by having Sony force the user to stick with the content he purchased for no justifiable reason.
Pardon me if i misunderstood your point then. I am all for digital refunds, on every digital platform. If it can be done in a fair way for both consumer and company (and i am sure it can), then i am 100% for it.
No, the issue is OP already had the controller connected to PS4 then he proceeded to connect it to PS3 via USB without disabling the connection to PS4 first.
DS4 when synced with PS4 sees that USB connection as just for charging and maintains its connection to PS4.
What? When I plug a charging cable into a thing, it charges. I don't give a shit how it charges or what processes are occurring. That's completely normal behaviour.
This is a lie. I mean are you serious? Have you worked retail? Do you realize that there are no refunds or certain things even if you didn't intend on purchasing it. If you buy a new game from GameStop, rip off the plastic and happen to open the case, you will NOT receive a refund. They will allow you to trade it in but refunds are not obligated for them because that is there rules.
The problem you seem to be trying to pin Sony on for being anti-consumer is legitimacy. There is no real system in the world that can tell if this person is telling the truth or lying about their purchases. Out of good faith you can do it, anyone can, and to make it seem like Sony never ever gives refunds is shortsighted as hell. This situation however, as others, they aren't obligated to. There is no fight, No defending etc. How is that hard to understand. If it's anti-consumer to give every single customer a refund for every single reason they could of fucked up, we'll that's beyond just a Sony issue then.
Thank you for clarifying the justification for Sony not issuing refunds.
Oh wait you didn't explain why Sony would be harmed by issuing refunds on things that haven't even been so much as touched. There is no such thing as a blanket refund refusal being anything other than anti-consumer. There are plenty of ways Sony can verify whether the user is trying to scam them, and they are pretty obvious - date of purchase versus date of complaint, for example. If the complaint comes a short amount of time after, what justification could Sony possibly come up with to argue that they cannot give a refund?
If Sony refunds this purchase, they will be back where they were. They won't lose a sale because the sale wasn't intended to have ever happened.
Uh... I'm going to have to go with Sony on this one. The Bluetooth should probably just switch off when it's plugged in, but apart from that slight oversight this one is on the people who decided to use a paired device for a secondary purpose without switching off the original console.
Also, while password protection on store purchases should be the default... It isn't. Take some responsibility for your own fuck ups, and maybe you'll learn something from them.
Regardless of whether it's 'their fault' for not making sure it was disconnected from their PS4, pretty much exactly the same thing stands here re: giving a refund as did in the TitanFall bundle and price drop in the other case.
