I didn't mean in terms of dealing with its customer base, but rather, a full fledged, professional game studio would generally have more resources, and expertise to deliver a more adequate product.
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People who refuse to play Indie-Games - Why?
- Thread starter Chairmanchuck
- Start date
I didn't mean in terms of dealing with its customer base, but rather, a full fledged, professional game studio would generally have more resources, and expertise to deliver a more adequate product.
starchild excalibur
Member
As someone who plays a decent-ish number of indie games, my guess is that the prevalence of them combined with some of them having similar (at least on a cursory level) art style is probably off-putting to some folks. I was playing Hue the other day on PSN (it was free) and while it was a perfectly fine game, it definitely immediately reminded me of Limbo, Braid, and a few other 2-d side scroller games in art style. It was an experience that was fine, but fairly average. The gameplay wasn't incredibly rich, the look of the game felt cheap, and it just seemed like the type of game I'd beat and then think "Did I really need to spend 4 hours playing this?"
And that isn't to say AAA games don't copy each other either, but perhaps because of how much money and time it takes to make them, you don't find as many of them on the marketplace as you do indie games.
Indie games like Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, Journey, Overcooked, Rocket League, Cuphead, etc are excellent because they stand out in some meaningful way that say, "Retro 8-bit game #12" doesn't. And unfortunately, it's these games that have painted a perhaps unfair perception of "indie games" to some people.
And that isn't to say AAA games don't copy each other either, but perhaps because of how much money and time it takes to make them, you don't find as many of them on the marketplace as you do indie games.
Indie games like Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, Journey, Overcooked, Rocket League, Cuphead, etc are excellent because they stand out in some meaningful way that say, "Retro 8-bit game #12" doesn't. And unfortunately, it's these games that have painted a perhaps unfair perception of "indie games" to some people.
Weltall Zero
Member
Considering your post in this thread that'd be like arguing that water is wet.
Um, what the fuck? Hollow Knight is an absolutely stunning game by any metric. If anything, loving it is one hundred percent consistent with being a graphics whore.
Own your shallowness and enjoy what you like, I say. I also have a hard time getting into games I find visually unpleasant (like pissfilter "realistic" AAA games with low framerates), while well-done pixel art and 8 / 16-bit aesthetics are extremely pretty to me.
If your contribution to the "why" thread is going to be "just because", perhaps consider if it adds anything of value?
Jubenhimer
Member
I think it's because some people still see digital games, and or games not made by a major publisher to be inferior for some strange reason. Which I don't really get, especially in this day and age. This isn't the WiiWare, PSN, Xbox Live Arcade days anymore. Freedom Planet is considered just as much of a PS4 game as Bloodborne is.
Then again, there's also people who just aren't into the style of most indie games, so it could just be preference as well.
Then again, there's also people who just aren't into the style of most indie games, so it could just be preference as well.
A Hat in Time and Cuphead are some of the best games I've played in a long, long time and they're indies so I'm not sure why there are people who straight out refuse to buy indie games. I understand being a bit apprehensive because a lot of indie games are pretty bad but to not give any indie game a chance seems really weird.
Weltall Zero
Member
I find it worrying that every single game you posted except one is a 3D game and that you equate "8-bit visuals" with "doesn't add anything new to the medium". So the original version of Spelunky didn't add anything? FTL? Shovel Knight?
Huge Succeeded
Banned
It hurts to read this thread.
This thread does have me glad I switched to PC gaming two years ago and shed myself of that ridiculous AAA tunnel vision, though. Reading through this thread has me less surprised that so many here somehow consider AAA console games to be the default games, and everything else is 'niche'
This thread does have me glad I switched to PC gaming two years ago and shed myself of that ridiculous AAA tunnel vision, though. Reading through this thread has me less surprised that so many here somehow consider AAA console games to be the default games, and everything else is 'niche'
J
JeremyEtcetera
Unconfirmed Member
If anything this thread has shown me that we have a void. Specifically, we need a review team similar to Gamespot/giant bomb/easy allies that covers and champions only independent games. Yes, only independent because once the outlets I've mentioned get copies of games like Destiny or Zelda, all of their content revolves around said game for the next few weeks. This goes for their podcasts, features, and streams. Also a lot of these outlets also tend to ignore lots of independent games when fall hits. We need the independent only personality based review team to shine more light on these games.
Posters specifically offering their reasoning aside, people often use arbitrary criteria to reinforce their choices when there is so much to choose from. What does someone, who, say, only plays half a dozen big AAA games a year, (let's say a mix of action games, shooters, open world and RPGs as they make up a large chunk of that sector) really lose by saying 'I don't play indies'? Probably about as much as saying 'I don't play sports/racing' (a huge sector easily dismissed by many gamers for several reasons) or 'I don't play mobile games'. It's not that they automatically don't like indies, it's that most gamers only get to play a fraction of a single percent of the sheer number of games released in a given year.
I mean, I don't really play many AAA games, it's not on principle, it's more that, of the few new games I'll play, the genres I like exist elsewhere. A shitload of great AAA games released this year, and if I played 30 games rather than 10, I'd probably get around to some of them. The visable end result is the same, my friends think I don't like western AAA stuff, when that isn't true, they just aren't my priority. It's an easy assumption to make though.
I mean, I don't really play many AAA games, it's not on principle, it's more that, of the few new games I'll play, the genres I like exist elsewhere. A shitload of great AAA games released this year, and if I played 30 games rather than 10, I'd probably get around to some of them. The visable end result is the same, my friends think I don't like western AAA stuff, when that isn't true, they just aren't my priority. It's an easy assumption to make though.
potatohead
Member
Play games that are fun and you like to play. Distinctions beyond this are unnecessary and superfluous.
If not, your loss. The end.
If not, your loss. The end.
starchild excalibur
Member
Where did I say it didn't add anything new to the medium? All I said is that the art style seems more prevalent amongst indie games and that to some people they probably more easily blend together.
I'm not qualified to speak about what the games you mentioned added to the medium. But if you're wondering why some people refuse to play games in that sort of aesthetic, part of it is due to their association with "old games," regardless of how unfair that association is, and part of it is due to how prevalent that style may seem.
I grew up on 8 and 16 bit games (I'm 31). I've never said - or will say - that games in that art style "don't add anything new to the medium." However, I will say that I'm not generally drawn to games in that style in part because many of them also tend to adhere to styles of gameplay I'm generally less interested in (namely side scrollers and platformers).
Mysterious Stranger
Member
95 percent have poorly written stories, and steal ideals from other games.
AudioEppa
Member
I mean, This is where I start and end on this subject.
It comes down to a few styles indie developers go after. If you never found those particular styles interesting, Or youre tired of seeing the same thing. That can put you off from playing those games.
Its like theres individuals who dont like semi realistic or almost photo realistic looking games. They never like them, Or tired of seeing them within the AAA market.
For myself, theres a small window of indie styles I enjoy playing. Anything 8 & 16bit is a instant fuck no. Same for space shooters and top-down games. But games like limbo and firewatch grab my attention.
Megalosaro
Banned
For me, it's hard to tell which ones are worth playing. There are so many shitty ones. So unless it's something like Cave Story or Undertake or stardew I usually ignore it.
That said, I tend to like the indy games I do like more than most AAA games.
That said, I tend to like the indy games I do like more than most AAA games.
First of all, I love your avatar. It's from the documentary about Melissa's grandfather, right? And I also agree that indie games get lumped up in with the abundant "cheap 2D sidescrollers" and they get a bad reputation, whether or not it's warranted.
A lot of games that use this style are good but you have to sift through a bunch of shovelware to find those good games. The art style itself isn't the problem, I actually played the Octopath Traveler demo on Switch that had a similar art style, but it's made by Square Enix so it probably has a large budget, but the fact that there are so many bad games that use the style negatively impacts how people perceive most indie games.
The funny thing is that indie games seem to be rife with 2D platformers, one of my absolute favorite genres, but I just can't get into most of them.
So like most games then.
Mysterious Stranger
Member
Accept they try to pose as "ART"
Ruud_Luiten
Member
I hear this alot. Its laughable.
Every time I hear someone saying they dont like indies I stop taking them seriously.
Every time I hear someone saying they dont like indies I stop taking them seriously.
Voidwolf
Member
Pretty much this (not so much the sidescrolling bit tho). I loved Transistor, and am currently enjoying Ruiner. I've played and enjoyed a few indies over the years. But most of them are bad, cheap, or just the current trend.
There is a very, very wide array of indie games, so it's hard to cast all, even most, in the same light. That being said, the majority of indie games I have played, mostly through Steam, have been pretty terrible. There are a few that stand out, but most are unfinished and buggy disasters.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Generally prefer indie games.
Play less than I'd like to because I don't buy digital on consoles
Play less than I'd like to because I don't buy digital on consoles
InterMusketeer
Member
A friend of mine is really into the Marvel movies. He loves them to bits. He's trying to get me to watch Guardians of the Galaxy. But here's the thing: I don't care about the guardians. There's like three super heroes I care about: Spider-man, Batman and The Hulk. That's it. The rest I don't give a damn about.
I think it's the same with games. Even if I like games within a certain genre, there's only so many I really care about and want to play. If an indie dev tries to create something similair, that's great but my thirst for that kind of game is probably quenched already.
I don't necessarily avoid indie games, but I just don't find too many of them appealing. I feel like they often don't offer as much content and polish as AAA games either. So I just skip them, or wait for them to get cheaper and skip them at that point because damn there's a lot of games these days.
I think it's the same with games. Even if I like games within a certain genre, there's only so many I really care about and want to play. If an indie dev tries to create something similair, that's great but my thirst for that kind of game is probably quenched already.
I don't necessarily avoid indie games, but I just don't find too many of them appealing. I feel like they often don't offer as much content and polish as AAA games either. So I just skip them, or wait for them to get cheaper and skip them at that point because damn there's a lot of games these days.
Boy Wander
Member
Please tell me this is sarcasm.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Your logic is pure nonsense. Let no one on GAF wonder why I often give console-only gamers the side-eye.
Abilidebob
Member
Jesus, why was this thread bumped? I had almost forgot about it and Neogaf's dark side.
RavageX
Member
I like games, just so happens most aren't indie. A lot of them follow "retro" style graphics, and if I buy a ps4 or Xbox one....or custom build a PC, I don't want to really mess with retro graphics in this day and age.
There are some games that don't follow the retro style and that's fine but most I will bypass cause that's just not what I want to play.
Good games or not....i didn't get a ps4 pro to play something looking like nes legend of Zelda.
There are some games that don't follow the retro style and that's fine but most I will bypass cause that's just not what I want to play.
Good games or not....i didn't get a ps4 pro to play something looking like nes legend of Zelda.
Magic Mushroom
Member
This post makes no sense.
I used to be in the camp of "nope."
It was mainly because I had less gaming time and what time I did have, I wanted to stick with the big-name stuff.
Now I have a bit more time to dabble and have found some indie games that are amazing, and enjoy more than a lot of AAA games, but of course some aren't as good. Imagine that.
One thing I do like doing is using them as a change of pace.
It was mainly because I had less gaming time and what time I did have, I wanted to stick with the big-name stuff.
Now I have a bit more time to dabble and have found some indie games that are amazing, and enjoy more than a lot of AAA games, but of course some aren't as good. Imagine that.
One thing I do like doing is using them as a change of pace.
ShironRedshift
Member
Interesting. Are you under the impression that something needs to reach a certain level of quality to be art? That something can't simultaneously both be art and be terrible? That is, that terrible art doesn't exist? And it seems quite irrelevant besides, as surely you'd agree that video games are in fact art regardless of what the development team says or doesn't say? After all, video games are simply a composite medium--they consist of the work of a variety of different forms of art, such as music, writing, background/character art, etc. All these things are agreed to be art when they exist in isolation, so why would they stop being such when put together? That seems odd to me. Surely they're just as much a form of art together as they are separately. That shouldn't even be a question.
And it's also odd to say this because this is also a problem that AAA games suffer from as well, that's in no way unique to indies. In fact, AAA games are way more likely to brag about how beautiful everything is and how great the IQ is, how gorgeous and detailed their worlds and character models and assets are, etc.
ScatheZombie
Member
Because when most people say that, they don't actually mean "indie games", they mean the <$15 at full price, pixel art, bargain bin crap that you expect to get on PS+/GWG within a couple months or in a Humble bundle for 3 cents.
And when they mean that definition, and not all indie (i.e. independently/self-published) games, I actually fall into that group as well. And it's entirely because I don't have time to play all the games I already want to play and can't be bothered to expend the energy (or time or money) to pick up and try out all the crap that falls through the cracks.
It's not that I don't intentionally play indie games (as defined above), it's that they are way, way down on my list of games to play and I usually never get that far down the list before another dozen AAA, AA, or high quality self-published products get released.
And when they mean that definition, and not all indie (i.e. independently/self-published) games, I actually fall into that group as well. And it's entirely because I don't have time to play all the games I already want to play and can't be bothered to expend the energy (or time or money) to pick up and try out all the crap that falls through the cracks.
It's not that I don't intentionally play indie games (as defined above), it's that they are way, way down on my list of games to play and I usually never get that far down the list before another dozen AAA, AA, or high quality self-published products get released.
pretty done
Member
People who are like this just haven't found their GOAT indies yet. I was kinda the same way until I played Hotline Miami. Now stuff like Hollow Knight and Cuphead are challenging Horizon/BOTW for my personal GOTY.
I think perception is skewed both ways though. I don't think indies are any better than AAA games. There's probably a higher percentage of shitty indies than AAA but if you go into the 'elitist' gaming cliques people act like indies are for real gamers and AAA are all mindless trash. It's whatever, I just play what looks good to me and I'm glad indies are here to bring back the budget and mid tier games.
Indie movies though... fucking blows away most of this box office blockbuster superhero shite. That's for a different thread.
I think perception is skewed both ways though. I don't think indies are any better than AAA games. There's probably a higher percentage of shitty indies than AAA but if you go into the 'elitist' gaming cliques people act like indies are for real gamers and AAA are all mindless trash. It's whatever, I just play what looks good to me and I'm glad indies are here to bring back the budget and mid tier games.
Indie movies though... fucking blows away most of this box office blockbuster superhero shite. That's for a different thread.
SirNinja
Member
It is absolutely not as "simple as that". If someone swears off all indie games forever, there is a big - and probably very weird - reason behind that decision.
It hasn't been particularly hard to notice that some people are quick to categorize games that fall outside of their comfort zone as lesser games. You see it in discussions regarding mobile and virtual-reality titles as well. I find this type of attitude abhorrent.
The vast quantity of quality releases and the incredibly diverse number of genres that make them up can't be ignored.
Personally, I find that most AAA titles offer little more than production values. They're designed for the largest audience possible and the effect on game design is often fatal. I generally find that lower budget titles are much more focused in design because their game doesn't have to appeal to a multi-million audience. These are generalizations of course.
The vast quantity of quality releases and the incredibly diverse number of genres that make them up can't be ignored.
Personally, I find that most AAA titles offer little more than production values. They're designed for the largest audience possible and the effect on game design is often fatal. I generally find that lower budget titles are much more focused in design because their game doesn't have to appeal to a multi-million audience. These are generalizations of course.
No... I really do think that way.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Man, how ignorant can people be? Have you seen what Ori looks like? Cuphead? Inside? The Witness? A Hat in Time? The Talos Principle? Observer? Ruiner? Abzu? Nex Machina? Absolver? Firewatch? Rime? Hollow Knight? The Last Night? Sundered? Indivisible? Ashen?
I could go on and on. There is an incredible variety in the indie space, both in terms of gameplay and art design.
JudgmentJay
Member
Yeah this is just about the most ridiculous opinion I've seen on this site, and that's saying something. If you pass on games like Hollow Knight, Shovel Knight, The Witness, etc just because they're indie games or because of the art styles... well... your loss.
I mean, you could say that about anything
The Binding of Isaac
Age of Decadence
Hard West
Cook, Serve, Delicious
The Legend of Grimrock II
Steamworld Heist
Hand of Fate
Rocket League
Skyhill
Inside
Jalopy
One Finger Death Punch
Detention
What Remains of Edith Finch
Tacoma
Yooka Layle
Event [0]
Papo & Yo
Dust: An Elysian Tale
Assault Android Cactus
Stories Untold
Firewatch
Oxenfree
Paper Sorcerer
1979 Revolution: Black Friday
Orwell
Deadly Tower of Monsters
The Vanishing of Ethan Carter
Dicetiny
Don't Starve
Sunless Sea
Ladykiller in a Bind
Contradiction
Ori and the Blind Forest
SOMA
Transistor
RONIN
HEXCELLS
Doorkickers
The Banner Saga
Antichamber
Bastion
Torchlight 2
Mark of the Ninja
Planet Coaster
Cuphead
Renowned Explorers
The Witness
This War of Mine
Pyre
Endless Space
SUPERHOT
Darkast Dungeon
This is the Police
Expditions: Viking
Invisible Inc.
Pillars of Eternity
Torment: Tides of Numenera
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Shadow Tactics
Battle Chasers: Nightwar
Subsurface Circular
White Day: A Labyrinth Named School
ECHO
West of Loathing
RUINER
Hello Neighbour
Paint the Town Red
Wartile
HOT LAVA
Agony
Prey for the Gods
DUSK
My Friend Named Pedro
Abandon Ship
Who Must Die
The Pedestrian
ZIBA
Ray's the Dead
Griftlands
Indivisible
Tartarus
Longsword: Tabletop Tactics
Light Fairytale
A Morticians Tale
SINNER
Long Gone Days
Megaton Rainfall
Albino Lullaby
State of Mind
No Truce with the Furies
All Walls Must Fall
jfc, this stereotype about indies is seriously so freaking tired
I certainly think people should give them a shot
I like a good few indie games but I do feel some get far more acclaim than they deserve IMO
I was very underwhelmed with Gone Home for example, and games like Firewatch and Abzu were ok but certainly not great for me.
Im pretty unoriginal when it comes to my all time favorite indie games, but I would recommend anyone who hasnt to play the likes of Braid, Limbo and my personal favorite Guacamelle
Edit: was just reminded of two more games at either end of the scale for me. Ori is still one of the best games this gen and oxenfree one of the worst games Ive played this gen
I like a good few indie games but I do feel some get far more acclaim than they deserve IMO
I was very underwhelmed with Gone Home for example, and games like Firewatch and Abzu were ok but certainly not great for me.
Im pretty unoriginal when it comes to my all time favorite indie games, but I would recommend anyone who hasnt to play the likes of Braid, Limbo and my personal favorite Guacamelle
Edit: was just reminded of two more games at either end of the scale for me. Ori is still one of the best games this gen and oxenfree one of the worst games Ive played this gen
digita1alchemy
Member
Indie games are kind of like 'AAA' games for me. A high-profile release will come out that everyone raves about, so I'll give it a shot even though it doesn't really grab me, only to find a pretty average game hidden behind big production values. Or, in the case of most indie games--a unique art style, melodramtic story, wacky gimmick, or derivative game design. After getting burned enough times I mostly stick to stuff by developers I already like, of which there are already more games than I have time to play anyway.
The last indie game I played was Cuphead, which wasn't bad at all, but in the end it just made me return to Hard Corps Uprising which is a better example of the genre by nearly every measure.
The last indie game I played was Cuphead, which wasn't bad at all, but in the end it just made me return to Hard Corps Uprising which is a better example of the genre by nearly every measure.
starchild excalibur
Member
Good eye! Yes, indeed it is.
Yeah, exactly. I've thoroughly bought and/or enjoyed many pixel-based indie games - Nidhogg 1, Ollie Ollie 1 & 2, Super Motherload, and I just purchased Stardew Valley last weekend. But there are tons more that just seem utterly pointless and perhaps even worse - slight. And that extends to 3D indie games as well.
I have more indie games hibernating in my PS4 "Downloads List" that were ultimately not worth the money I spent on them than I can shake a stick at.
More_Badass
Member
More adequate in what way? Visual fidelity? Amount of content?