It's a legitimate concern, and in a thread about a funding a potentially transparent gaming website, it's a bit ridiculous to scoff at an effort for transparency.
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Pete Dodd (aka famousmortimer) is running an Indigogo campaign for a new website
- Thread starter ElTorro
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It's a legitimate concern, and in a thread about a funding a potentially transparent gaming website, it's a bit ridiculous to scoff at an effort for transparency.
Who's more biased; the person who blindly cheerleaders or the person who has a equity stake in a product and has hard criticisms and truths because he wants it to be better?
As far as I know FM has a XB1, like its (not loves) and has probably bought more software on it than a lot of the fanboys out there.
Getting MS (or any of these companies) to realize marketing BS isn't going to help them isn't biased IMO. Someone should have lit that fire under Nintendo's ass a few years back. Consumers (and GAF) did so to Sony back in 05-07'.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Serious question, how will this be different from the many sites that use n4g trying to get clicks for opinion pieces and content creation? There's a ton of smaller sites that WANT to be recognized as a significant news or opinion site and they do it for free, usually while they work other jobs, because they're just chasing their dream. I might not be interpreting the overview right, so maybe someone can direct me towards the differences.
For real, many negative nancies here. What he wants to try is not easy, we can all agree, but let's not shoot it down so quick; this site is exactly what many wanted to see, a gaming site that tries not to polish publishers' shoes but to stand on the consumer's side.
Go for it mort!
Seriously, asking questions will probably help clarify what the campaign is. Asking about rent is valid as hell. Is it his own living space or an office space dedicated solely to this business that he wants to embark on?
famousmortimer
Banned
The weird thing is that if I want to put every waking hour into creating and maintaining this website I need to pay for my rent and electricity. Because if I don't have a place to live or power and Internet going to my computer, I can't do this.
You got me!
Just the way I see it. He leans to the Sony side of things. I just dont think he could write objectively. Just my opinion.
That doesn't seem healthy.
theusedversion
Member
I have no opinion about this endeavor but I think it would really be great if some developers came out in support of movements like this. I realize the majority would rather keep the norm that is currently shit and shady as hell but there must be some developers out there who support a more balanced and ethical industry, right?
This might take some time, however.
pastapadre
Neo Member
If anyone cares to watch, here's a recent live hangout with Pete, Rich Grisham and I discussing our approaches to covering the industry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrTKlrs8d34
The show as an MP3 for those who'd rather listen than watch.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3UtEYGaz83gMExWLTNyUVg4TEE/edit?usp=sharing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrTKlrs8d34
The show as an MP3 for those who'd rather listen than watch.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3UtEYGaz83gMExWLTNyUVg4TEE/edit?usp=sharing
SEGAvangelist
Member
I agree. This thread could actually be useful in order to ask some questions and maybe those answers could be added in an update for the Indigogo page.
ReignofSparrows
Member
Does anyone write about games objectively? I don't understand this concern at all.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I'm not sure anyone truly can, but he doesn't hide it. Hopefully he works with others who have opinions that slant another way.
R3TRODYCE
Member
Nailed it but good luck FM.
Wouldn't developer support muddy the purpose of the site?
SEGAvangelist
Member
I'd like to see some samples of your work as well. That would be useful for people.
Dr.Schlomo
Banned
As a professional web dev, this is very true. Although, tossing up a WordPress site on a shared server with a theme from themeforest will cost less than $500 for a year. I certainly don't suggest that, but it's a cheap route.
My main concern is monetization. If he is only going to rely on on adsense he will need tons of views to make any money at all. He won't get tons of views unless he is constantly writing, updating the site, and growing in SEO.
I would donate but I don't see this becoming anything more than Pete's personal blog that might have a contributor or two every once and awhile.
*Also, yay Gaf account approval!*
Edit:
Also, this
I wish him the best of luck and I really like his vision but there are far far too many unanswered questions. This feels like something that was hastily thrown together one night after a passionate disbelief with the current state of games journalism/sites.
pastapadre
Neo Member
In this example, if you published a review early, wouldn't the review have missed the severe problems that only materialized once the game was released to the masses? Anything online related really can't be assessed for days/weeks after a game is out.
The best thread famousmortimer did still is, in my opinion the one called "It's not all drama" which is this one:
Link
And my post on it, for curiosity sake: Here
I remember sending him a PM about this which he was kind enough to take some time and replied to me. Leaks, in my opinion are good to keep the consumer informed and to find some things that otherwise, others would only know after buying a certain product. Constant negative thinking towards this industry (or anything, actually) is just something I failed to see the point. I also follow him on Twitter and while I hope this idea to see the day of the light I'm not sure if it will be really doable in the long term.
I know how harsh the internet can be for every single person. There's a lot of random hate, rude people, threats, fanboys and so on. Ignoring all this might be hard for some and I can see how it can affect others who are more sensitive towards negative feedback.
If you want my advice mort (you probably don't) I always enjoy reading something from someone when they are polite (avoiding cursing, etc), have good writing skills, and stay neutral regarding the subjects while providing an opinion at the same time. Even when something is bad, when developers lie and so on it's important to keep your integrity. You don't need to be super optimistic but I feel that the negative side of things often hit you and upset you more than it should. And not only being negative, but also being hyperbolic about things (just like mort wrote on that thread he made) does not help. I remember in that thread that you didn't want to be like that and what made you realize this was that comment "unless you're being a jerk" from the postcard you got.
Credibility and trust can take years to earn but can be lost in seconds. Whatever you do, always respect others even if you don't agree with them and remember that's there's almost two sides, the positive and the negative.
Best of luck.
Link
And my post on it, for curiosity sake: Here
I remember sending him a PM about this which he was kind enough to take some time and replied to me. Leaks, in my opinion are good to keep the consumer informed and to find some things that otherwise, others would only know after buying a certain product. Constant negative thinking towards this industry (or anything, actually) is just something I failed to see the point. I also follow him on Twitter and while I hope this idea to see the day of the light I'm not sure if it will be really doable in the long term.
I know how harsh the internet can be for every single person. There's a lot of random hate, rude people, threats, fanboys and so on. Ignoring all this might be hard for some and I can see how it can affect others who are more sensitive towards negative feedback.
If you want my advice mort (you probably don't) I always enjoy reading something from someone when they are polite (avoiding cursing, etc), have good writing skills, and stay neutral regarding the subjects while providing an opinion at the same time. Even when something is bad, when developers lie and so on it's important to keep your integrity. You don't need to be super optimistic but I feel that the negative side of things often hit you and upset you more than it should. And not only being negative, but also being hyperbolic about things (just like mort wrote on that thread he made) does not help. I remember in that thread that you didn't want to be like that and what made you realize this was that comment "unless you're being a jerk" from the postcard you got.
Credibility and trust can take years to earn but can be lost in seconds. Whatever you do, always respect others even if you don't agree with them and remember that's there's almost two sides, the positive and the negative.
Best of luck.
-MD-
Member
I actually want to see numerical scores just to combat bullshit metacritic scores. In no way is GTA4 a fucking 98/100 game.
Everything is graded on a 7-10 scale and it's getting old.
so you want other people to pay for rent and electricity
no offence but dont you have any savings ? youre asking strangers to pay for your entire website
good luck with your site though
This is a cool idea, but I'm kinda disconcerted by the lack of business plan - just how do they plan to grow and monetize, other than the unfeasible Google Ads? - and disappointed that a site billing itself as "independent journalism" just plans to do the same old "reviews, news, editorials" that every gaming site on the planet is doing. Best of luck to Pete, though.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
I've listened to the Doddcast off and on for about a year now I guess. I appreciate the vision he has for the site and wish you well Pete.
To me though it sounds exactly like what I came and stayed at GAF for. I understand there is a subset of people out there that don't like to have to trawl through multiple threads and posts for the opinions, rumors, #truthfacts, and user reviews they are looking for. Hopefully you are able to capture that audience. Good luck Pete!
To me though it sounds exactly like what I came and stayed at GAF for. I understand there is a subset of people out there that don't like to have to trawl through multiple threads and posts for the opinions, rumors, #truthfacts, and user reviews they are looking for. Hopefully you are able to capture that audience. Good luck Pete!
And is there a reason why would can't host on Wordpress/Blogspot and buy a domain on Godaddy and get a .com address? Why not do it as a hobby to begin with and play it safe? It will be like $30 a month. If you get like 2000 hits a month you can get $150 back from Google adsense every month.
Start small.
Start small.
tehrik-e-insaaf
Member
maybe he should become a writer at Gamecritics
So this is for personal rent, I personally would want this clarified on the site. I really thought it was for an office space.
Are you planning on trying to cover the big game shows (E3, PAX, PAX East, etc)? How do you expect to pay for that?
Hush, you!
I just posted this in the other "LOL videogame journalism" thread floating around today:
The bigger the gaming website, the less beholden to the publishers they are. Both editorially, and monetarily.
Think about it.
Editorially, a huge site like IGN doesn't need to be afraid of Sony or Ubisoft or anyone else blacklisting them. IGN reaches 41 million unique readers every month. So even though a game like Assassin's Creed or whatever might drive huge traffic, it's a drop in the bucket of the site's total reach. There wouldn't even be a daily traffic dip if the publisher wouldn't let IGN preview a game other outlets got to preview.
Plus, the audience size tips the balance of power. Publishers really want to reach those millions of gamers, so they are more likely to do things the way that the big site wants to do them, instead of getting to dictate terms themselves like they might with a smaller outlet that could really benefit from the access.
On the $$ side, first of all, $$ coming in doesn't touch or impact Editorial departments at all. No Editorial group ever knows who is spending money, how much they're spending, etc. But, let's say you don't believe that. Let's say you think the $$ does impact coverage. Here, too, the big site should be more trustworthy.
Small and mid-tier websites rely almost wholly on video game ads. A big ad campaign for Sonic or Thief or whatever can be a REALLY big deal for a business that makes a couple million bucks a year and employs ~10-20 people. But the huge websites, with 100+ employees, only earn a portion of their revenue from video game ad campaigns. They are big enough, with enough ad volume, to have money coming in from Ford, Old Spice, fast food companies, etc. So here, too, the (imaginary) influence of the video game company's ad spending would be significantly diluted.
The big sites just don't need any one specific campaign as much, since they have so much more overall $$ coming in the door.
The bigger the gaming website, the less beholden to the publishers they are. Both editorially, and monetarily.
Think about it.
Editorially, a huge site like IGN doesn't need to be afraid of Sony or Ubisoft or anyone else blacklisting them. IGN reaches 41 million unique readers every month. So even though a game like Assassin's Creed or whatever might drive huge traffic, it's a drop in the bucket of the site's total reach. There wouldn't even be a daily traffic dip if the publisher wouldn't let IGN preview a game other outlets got to preview.
Plus, the audience size tips the balance of power. Publishers really want to reach those millions of gamers, so they are more likely to do things the way that the big site wants to do them, instead of getting to dictate terms themselves like they might with a smaller outlet that could really benefit from the access.
On the $$ side, first of all, $$ coming in doesn't touch or impact Editorial departments at all. No Editorial group ever knows who is spending money, how much they're spending, etc. But, let's say you don't believe that. Let's say you think the $$ does impact coverage. Here, too, the big site should be more trustworthy.
Small and mid-tier websites rely almost wholly on video game ads. A big ad campaign for Sonic or Thief or whatever can be a REALLY big deal for a business that makes a couple million bucks a year and employs ~10-20 people. But the huge websites, with 100+ employees, only earn a portion of their revenue from video game ad campaigns. They are big enough, with enough ad volume, to have money coming in from Ford, Old Spice, fast food companies, etc. So here, too, the (imaginary) influence of the video game company's ad spending would be significantly diluted.
The big sites just don't need any one specific campaign as much, since they have so much more overall $$ coming in the door.
famousmortimer
Banned
Those sites are part of the reason I'm doing this. Everything I post here or tweet gets turned into a story on those sites. Hell, sometimes yahoo games. If I'm going to be the source for all of these stories I might as well do it myself.
The other difference is just dumb luck on my part. Since the noDRM thing blew up I gained more visibility. Deserved or not, I did. Now that I want to make a site a lot of very talented people want to come on board because, I assume, of that visibility.
There are also other things that I hope set us apart. I have two sociologists that want to write occasional pieces on the social implications of games. If I can get some money together I can get Greg Sewart, formerly of egm (in the 90s, when they were good) and game now who has a family history in car racing to be my "racing game guy" which will make us the best site for that particular genre on the net.
I also want to be a platform to promote other people. Up and coming youtubers, writers, artists. Anything. I personally like looking for and helping talented people that just need a chance so that's something I will spend a decent amount of time on. I'm much more interested in the gaming community than I am publishers.
And I know most of you don't give a crap about this but most parents are completely lost finding games for kids because there are no sites that cover that. It won't be a huge part of the site but that will be an angle we take. Kids should be playing good games
I think this sets us apart. If it doesn't, good. I want sites like this. I wouldn't be creating this if I didn't think there was a huge void. If IGN and polygon actually did their job for us and not for publishers I would not be creating a website right now.
Could he actually enlighten the industry with scientific consumer data and insights, or would it just be him on a soapbox sharing his opinion based on the ramblings of the lowest common denominator on gaming forums and his social circles? The former would be incredibly interesting to me, I'd donate for the cause, but the latter is exactly what I would like to see go away and never return.
theusedversion
Member
I don't mean specifically about this fundraiser. Not actively support. I mean just the general idea that the industry would be better and more fair for all. I imagine that the smaller developers would support this as they are at a disadvantage compared to the big firms who can pressure sites to get the results that they want. Support could be shown by promising to not do the shady shit that PR firms currently engage in, to not retaliate, etc.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Those sites are part of the reason I'm doing this. Everything I post here or tweet gets turned into a story on those sites. Hell, sometimes yahoo games. If I'm going to be the source for all of these stories I might as well do it myself.
The other difference is just dumb luck on my part. Since the noDRM thing blew up I gained more visibility. Deserved or not, I did. Now that I want to make a site a lot of very talented people want to come on board because, I assume, of that visibility.
There are also other things that I hope set us apart. I have two sociologists that want to write occasional pieces on the social implications of games. If I can get some money together I can get Greg Sewart, formerly of egm (in the 90s, when they were good) and game now who has a family history in car racing to be my "racing game guy" which will make us the best site for that particular genre on the net.
I also want to be a platform to promote other people. Up and coming youtubers, writers, artists. Anything. I personally like looking for and helping talented people that just need a chance so that's something I will spend a decent amount of time on. I'm much more interested in the gaming community than I am publishers.
And I know most of you don't give a crap about this but most parents are completely lost finding games for kids because there are no sites that cover that. It won't be a huge part of the site but that will be an angle we take. Kids should be playing good games
I think this sets us apart. If it doesn't, good. I want sites like this. I wouldn't be creating this if I didn't think there was a huge void. If IGN and polygon actually did their job for us and not for publishers I would not be creating a website right now.
Dope. Thanks for answering. They'll still post that shit to N4G though
What? This money goes to your personal rent and electricity?
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Good luck, Pete! I'm planning to do something similar as I think there is a lot of improvement that can be made in terms of gaming media. I'm planning it to be entirely non-profit.
I'll probably start that venture in the next few months but its going to be ambitious as hell.
Pledging and rooting for you!
I'll probably start that venture in the next few months but its going to be ambitious as hell.
Pledging and rooting for you!
When you donate to a Kickstarter, where do you think that money is going?
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
Good luck with it. Sounds like it will be cool when up. And you're only 36?!?!!?!?!??!?!
famousmortimer
Banned
I have zero interest in big game shows.
And yes, my office is in my apartment. I would like to move it out at some point but if I wanted to do that now the goal would be a hell of alot higher and I'm already uncomfortable with how high it is. I figured it was clear on the site, I want to be as transparent as I want publishers to be. I will fix that.
I wonder if you guys have any idea just how many people think this and try to do this.
Where is he going to run his website? In a wooden shack using solar power?
Yeah, re: bolded- isn't that the mission statement of every game site anyways?
That's literally what you do if you pay somebody to do a job for you, and this here is not different.
Otherwise, the website would be a hobby and not a full-time job. As a hobby, the website would probably not get regular updates since the real job, family and other hobbies would conflict with it every other day. It wouldn't get daily updates, it wouldn't cover everything that's currently relevant, since the real job would be more important.
The baseline is, if you want something, you have to pay for it. And if what you want is not sustainable through advertisement, you have to pay real cash.
You aren't pitching this all that well, but you have my pittance $5 because I want you to do this.
Best of luck!
Sort of. Utah.
...that's what a JOB is. Other people paying for your rent and electricity.
How is this in any way surprising or sketchy? He's being straightforward and letting us know that, yes, a person has got to pay his own bills.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Oh I'm sure of it. My goal is not to be the next Kotaku, but to be the next metacritic. I think metacritic is broken and too inconsistent with their vision since they've diversified to other mediums.
Or better yet, I want to start a "Rotten Tomatoes" for gaming, that not only rewards gamers for participating but also ensures that its less of a fanboy haven and more of a gaming haven without being too general.
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