Phil Spencer appearance at the AMD CES 2019 Keynote.

Oct 17, 2005
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#51
You can't blame Phil Spencer, for example, for Sea of Thieves, State of Decay 2 or even halo 5's single player. He has no hand in how those games are developed. Yet you put Mark Cerny up there for making...what Marble Madness and Knack? I'm not saying Mark Cerny doesn't deserve any credit, but if we are keeping things factual, didn't Mark Cerny say you need 8 teraflops to do 4k gaming? Didn't he say the PS4 Pro would be able to do 8.4 teraflops with the 16-bit variable handling? Neither one of those statements is true. And Mark Cerny is close to being a legend for you? Ok...have fun with that.
Ignorance is bliss. Here's Mark Cerny's work:

Major Havoc (1983, arcade) — Programmer, designer
Marble Madness (1984, arcade) — Programmer, designer
Shooting Gallery (1987, Master System) — Programmer, designer
Missile Defense 3-D (1987, Master System) — Programmer, designer
Shanghai (1988, port to Master System) — Programmer
California Games (1989, port to Master System) — Programmer
Dick Tracy (1990, Genesis) — Programmer, designer
Kid Chameleon (1991, Genesis) — Programmer, designer
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1992, Genesis) — Producer
Crash ‘n Burn (1993, 3DO) — Programmer, designer
Total Eclipse (1994, 3DO) — Programmer, designer
Disruptor (1996, PlayStation) — Executive producer, designer
Crash Bandicoot (1996, PlayStation) — Executive producer
Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back (1997, PlayStation) — Producer, designer
Spyro the Dragon (1998, PlayStation) — Producer, designer
Crash Bandicoot: Warped (1998, PlayStation) — Producer, designer
Spyro the Dragon 2: Ripto's Rage! (1999, PlayStation) — Producer
Crash Bash (2000, PlayStation) — Producer, designer
Spyro: Year of the Dragon (2000, PlayStation) — Design consultant
Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy (2001, PS2) — Programmer
Ratchet & Clank (2002, PS2) - Designer
Jak II (2003, PS2) — Programmer, designer
Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando (2003, PS2) — Designer
Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal (2004, PS2) — Design consultant
Resistance: Fall of Man (2006, PS3) — Design consultant
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (2007, PS3) — Design consultant
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (2007, PS3) — Design consultant
Resistance 2 (2008, PS3) — Designer
God of War III (2010, PS3) — Design consultant
Killzone 3 (2011, PS3) — Design consultant
Knack (2013, PS4) - Director
The Last Guardian (2016, PS4) - Executive producer
Knack 2 (2017, PS4) - Director
Marvel's Spider-Man (2018, PS4) - Executive Producer
Death Stranding (TBA, PS4) - Technical producer

https://www.igda.org/page/lifetimemembers
https://www.interactive.org/special_awards/details.asp?idSpecialAwards=15

The guy has literally been through every faucet of game development whether it be software or hardware. I think the only thing he hasn't done is be a marketing shill like Phil Spencer.
 
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Jan 31, 2018
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#52
Ignorance is bliss. Here's Mark Cerny's work:

Major Havoc (1983, arcade) — Programmer, designer
Marble Madness (1984, arcade) — Programmer, designer
Shooting Gallery (1987, Master System) — Programmer, designer
Missile Defense 3-D (1987, Master System) — Programmer, designer
Shanghai (1988, port to Master System) — Programmer
California Games (1989, port to Master System) — Programmer
Dick Tracy (1990, Genesis) — Programmer, designer
Kid Chameleon (1991, Genesis) — Programmer, designer
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (1992, Genesis) — Producer
Crash ‘n Burn (1993, 3DO) — Programmer, designer
Total Eclipse (1994, 3DO) — Programmer, designer
Disruptor (1996, PlayStation) — Executive producer, designer
Crash Bandicoot (1996, PlayStation) — Executive producer
Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back (1997, PlayStation) — Producer, designer
Spyro the Dragon (1998, PlayStation) — Producer, designer
Crash Bandicoot: Warped (1998, PlayStation) — Producer, designer
Spyro the Dragon 2: Ripto's Rage! (1999, PlayStation) — Producer
Crash Bash (2000, PlayStation) — Producer, designer
Spyro: Year of the Dragon (2000, PlayStation) — Design consultant
Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy (2001, PS2) — Programmer
Ratchet & Clank (2002, PS2) - Designer
Jak II (2003, PS2) — Programmer, designer
Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando (2003, PS2) — Designer
Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal (2004, PS2) — Design consultant
Resistance: Fall of Man (2006, PS3) — Design consultant
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (2007, PS3) — Design consultant
Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (2007, PS3) — Design consultant
Resistance 2 (2008, PS3) — Designer
God of War III (2010, PS3) — Design consultant
Killzone 3 (2011, PS3) — Design consultant
Knack (2013, PS4) - Director
The Last Guardian (2016, PS4) - Executive producer
Knack 2 (2017, PS4) - Director
Marvel's Spider-Man (2018, PS4) - Executive Producer
Death Stranding (TBA, PS4) - Technical producer

https://www.igda.org/page/lifetimemembers

The guy has literally been through every faucet of game development whether it be software or hardware. I think the only thing he hasn't done is be a marketing shill like Phil Spencer.
I was quoting what the previous poster said about Marble Madness and Knack. I didn't say that was all Mark Cerny did. I even said that it doesn't mean Mark Cerny doesn't deserve credit. My argument is that different people have different criteria for what they call a legend. If someone disagrees with that criteria it doesn't make it automatically wrong or right. You chose to focus specifically on what I began with Mark Cerny when that was not the actual point. The previous poster said Phil has done absoutely nothing. That's not factual and simply biased. Does it mean he's a legend? No it doesn't. I don't hold him in that regard either, but it's not my opinion we are discussing here. All I'm doing is poking holes in this guy's argument and showing the hypocrisy for what it is.

The fact that you misinterpreted the point of the post to the point of literally posting all of Mark Cerny's involvement in anything ever without taking an unbiased eye to the arguments put forth show that a short sightedness that is simply baffling.
 
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Dec 16, 2018
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#53
Shigeru Miyamoto, Yu Suzuki, Will Wright, Tim Schafer, Hideo Kojima and others are Legends. After these i put Cerny, since he is more behind the curtains ... Philis Spencerina is soooo far of being considered

A) a game designer
B) a legend among game designer
C) a gamer

You can see from afar an Microsoft employee, they all have the same "odor" .. all corporate snakes. He was part of the Encarta Team, that is all his pedigree ... he didnt make any game, he didnt code anything.

His job might have been printing encarta cd covers for all we know. He is a puppet, elevated to some fake fame. All he had to do is be "Fuck You Don! I can do betta!"

He keeps promising more 1st party support, less 3rd party since 2014. If Don is responsible for the xbone fiasco, Phil should be held accountable for everything post 2013 ... every game project, every bundle, everything under his umbrella. Yet he got some many "freepasses" like Messi in his whole career.
I'm not gonna debate if he's a "legend" but don't act like he's not a gamer. I can recall countless speeches with him referencing games and specific features about them that you would only know on hand like he does by genuinely gaming. To think any of these companies would put someone whose not a passionate about games at the top. I'll just add that you don't have to directly design a game to have a positive influence on the industry.
 
Oct 17, 2005
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#54
I was quoting what the previous poster said about Marble Madness and Knack. I didn't say that was all Mark Cerny did. I even said that it doesn't mean Mark Cerny doesn't deserve credit. My argument is that different people have different criteria for what they call a legend. If someone disagrees with that criteria it doesn't make it automatically wrong or right. You chose to focus specifically on what I began with Mark Cerny when that was not the actual point. The previous poster said Phil has done absoutely nothing. That's not factual and simply biased. Does it mean he's a legend? No it doesn't. I don't hold him in that regard either, but it's not my opinion we are discussing here. All I'm doing is poking holes in this guy's argument and showing the hypocrisy for what it is.

The fact that you misinterpreted the point of the post to the point of literally posting all of Mark Cerny's involvement in anything ever without taking an unbiased eye to the arguments put forth show that a short sightedness that is simply baffling.
That's why I removed all of the irrelevant back and forth non-sense you and him were spewing and focused only on the portion of Mark Cerny. Did you see what I even quoted? I was simply correcting you. The only short sightedness and baffling aspect of all of this is you trying to paint Mark Cerny's career with one of his early titles and a subjectively poor performing game.
 
Likes: Yakuzakazuya
Apr 23, 2016
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#55
None of you noticed that before she brought Phil out, she mentioned Sony first, then Microsoft?

I think they have equal standing, but Phil was there. Sony's streaming platform isn't using AMD.
 
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Oct 17, 2005
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#56
None of you noticed that before she brought Phil out, she mentioned Sony first, then Microsoft?

I think they have equal standing, but Phil was there. Sony's streaming platform isn't using AMD.
I noticed when they were talking about how AMD leads in terms of providing custom solutions for the console business. However, I'm confident that Sony is using AMD for their streaming platform seeing how we are able to stream PS4 games. :messenger_grinning:
 
Apr 23, 2016
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#57
I noticed when they were talking about how AMD leads in terms of providing custom solutions for the console business. However, I'm confident that Sony is using AMD for their streaming platform seeing how we are able to stream PS4 games. :messenger_grinning:
Right was only thinking about the PS3 stuff. Duh on my part.
 
Jan 12, 2018
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#58
Sony fans - relax. Jesus. Lol.

Its like, anything, and I do mean ANYTHING positive about Xbox and you guys come out of the woodworks. Seriously, if anyone at Sony was really worth mentioning (according to the criteria) they would've been asked on stage as well. Sony already won this gen. What else do you want?
 
Jan 31, 2018
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#59
I was quoting what the previous poster said about Marble Madness and Knack. I didn't say that was all Mark Cerny did. I even said that it doesn't mean Mark Cerny doesn't deserve credit. My argument is that different people have different criteria for what they call a legend. If someone disagrees with that criteria it doesn't make it automatically wrong or right. You chose to focus specifically on what I began with Mark Cerny when that was not the actual point. The previous poster said Phil has done absoutely nothing. That's not factual and simply biased. Does it mean he's a legend? No it doesn't. I don't hold him in that regard either, but it's not my opinion we are discussing here. All I'm doing is poking holes in this guy's argument and showing the hypocrisy for what it is.

The fact that you misinterpreted the point of the post to the point of literally posting all of Mark Cerny's involvement in anything ever without taking an unbiased eye to the arguments put forth show that a short sightedness that is simply baffling.
That's why I removed all of the irrelevant back and forth non-sense you and him were spewing and focused only on the portion of Mark Cerny. Did you see what I even quoted? I was simply correcting you. The only short sightedness and baffling aspect of all of this is you trying to paint Mark Cerny's career with one of his early titles and a subjectively poor performing game.
I didn't try to paint Mark Cerny's career as anything. The previous guy mentioned Marble Madness and Sonic 2 or something. I threw in Knack. I'm not quoting my opinion of Mark Cerny, I'm questioning his. If all he can come up with is Marble Madness and Sonic 2...why is he considering Mark Cerny a legend? I think an even better question is why is Mark Cerny even in the conversation when the whole thread is regarding Phil Spencer? by focusing on this we do this thread a disservice and you are perpetuating that infraction. The original post you quoted of mine was like 90 percent about Phil Spencer. You cherry-picked what I said about Mark Cerny, assuming I was giving my own opinion about him. The only reason I mentioned him is because the guy I was responding to mentioned him. Talk about why or why don't you feel Phil deserves this type of accolade. There's plenty of material to draw from.
 
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Likes: lynux3
Mar 19, 2013
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#60
Sony fans - relax. Jesus. Lol.

Its like, anything, and I do mean ANYTHING positive about Xbox and you guys come out of the woodworks. Seriously, if anyone at Sony was really worth mentioning (according to the criteria) they would've been asked on stage as well. Sony already won this gen. What else do you want?
I think you read a different thread if you think Sony fans needs to calm :D
 
Dec 10, 2018
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#69
You would think Sony fans would be feeling very secure and confident and no need to bash on XBox. Also where is the evidence that Navi is exclusive to PS5?
Only because someone is doing well or poorly, he or she is not exempt of any form of criticism. Sony will never see the day, where ppl. wont mock them for the "2nd job, no games, the $599, giant enemy carbs!" ... and Microsoft had and still have their fair share of wrongdoings this generation and that includes this fanboi made up "xbox saviour" Phil Spencer.

He like Don were part of the original Xbone team. Why are we all to blame Don? Because of the "get a 360, you cheapskate?!"

I'll just add that you don't have to directly design a game to have a positive influence on the industry.
He is pushing for a GaaS driven industry. Retention is their trojan. They want you to stay playing for decades Sea of Thieves, chasing skeletons, krakens without underpanties and unlocking cars via boxes, removing VIP benefits from CE ... etc.

Is that a positive influence? Most are going to disagree with you on that. GaaS will kill the industry in the long run. The only way for GaaS to work, is to have your product built around these "elements".

Perma online, dlc, dlc, dlc, microtrx, after microtrx. want a bigger red pixel¿ $4 ... all about selling you assets. In Forza 9 you will be buying car parts for real money ... neew rear mirror with LED and hologram ? $5.99 please ... new rims? with LED screws? $1.99 per screw ..

"live in your world, play "forever" in ours"

Ok, so your criteria for legend means you have to be a gamer, involved in the development of games...etc. Like I said before, everybody has their criteria. I'm not familiar with the "Encarta" team. Would you care to explain why this is a negative thing? Also your speculation on his career is seriously biased.

You can't blame Phil Spencer, for example, for Sea of Thieves, State of Decay 2 or even halo 5's single player. He has no hand in how those games are developed. Yet you put Mark Cerny up there for making...what Marble Madness and Knack? I'm not saying Mark Cerny doesn't deserve any credit, but if we are keeping things factual, didn't Mark Cerny say you need 8 teraflops to do 4k gaming? Didn't he say the PS4 Pro would be able to do 8.4 teraflops with the 16-bit variable handling? Neither one of those statements is true. And Mark Cerny is close to being a legend for you? Ok...have fun with that.
Encarta is the offline Wikipedia of the 90s. He was basically writing articles , printing cds, updating or simply watching over what his teams/division was doing (supervisor).

He didnt do anything beyond that. And about Mark Cerny ... he got a shitload money from Universal Studios, with it he created Naughty Dog, Insominac Games pretty much. He put those two teams together ... and worked on games as a programer, director, producer and got few awards to show off.

Compared to the Nintendo/Sega gurus he, like i said is not a legend per se, at least not on the same level as them. But he is for sure leagues above Phil Spencer, in terms of "real" contribution and not just pure "PR talk" ... even Layden who made vib-Ribbon is above Phil.

In other words, Phil was lost for a while after encarta got shut down. Someone managed to get into the gaming division, made it to the top even though Rob Bach, Ed Fries or J Allard were imho. the better candidates for that role.

Compared to the original, pioneers of the first xbox .. who all left ... why him? Ed Fries with his knowledge alone would have done a much better job. Phil does a good job a "keeping the cost low", but ... no risk, no fun.

Pretty sure he will be the first to take a dive, should the next box have rough start.
 
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Likes: Yakuzakazuya
Aug 16, 2018
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#70
Comon now Spencer might be as good as he talks but he just can't be compared to the likes of Miyamoto. He doesn't have the trajectory yet nor the clout. He might one day get there but he's just not now.
Frankly im offended on Miyamotos behalf that he's been compared with fucking phill. No disrespect
 
Likes: Yakuzakazuya
Jan 31, 2018
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#71
Only because someone is doing well or poorly, he or she is not exempt of any form of criticism. Sony will never see the day, where ppl. wont mock them for the "2nd job, no games, the $599, giant enemy carbs!" ... and Microsoft had and still have their fair share of wrongdoings this generation and that includes this fanboi made up "xbox saviour" Phil Spencer.

He like Don were part of the original Xbone team. Why are we all to blame Don? Because of the "get a 360, you cheapskate?!"



He is pushing for a GaaS driven industry. Retention is their trojan. They want you to stay playing for decades Sea of Thieves, chasing skeletons, krakens without underpanties and unlocking cars via boxes, removing VIP benefits from CE ... etc.

Is that a positive influence? Most are going to disagree with you on that. GaaS will kill the industry in the long run. The only way for GaaS to work, is to have your product built around these "elements".

Perma online, dlc, dlc, dlc, microtrx, after microtrx. want a bigger red pixel¿ $4 ... all about selling you assets. In Forza 9 you will be buying car parts for real money ... neew rear mirror with LED and hologram ? $5.99 please ... new rims? with LED screws? $1.99 per screw ..

"live in your world, play "forever" in ours"



Encarta is the offline Wikipedia of the 90s. He was basically writing articles , printing cds, updating or simply watching over what his teams/division was doing (supervisor).

He didnt do anything beyond that. And about Mark Cerny ... he got a shitload money from Universal Studios, with it he created Naughty Dog, Insominac Games pretty much. He put those two teams together ... and worked on games as a programer, director, producer and got few awards to show off.

Compared to the Nintendo/Sega gurus he, like i said is not a legend per se, at least not on the same level as them. But he is for sure leagues above Phil Spencer, in terms of "real" contribution and not just pure "PR talk" ... even Layden who made vib-Ribbon is above Phil.

In other words, Phil was lost for a while after encarta got shut down. Someone managed to get into the gaming division, made it to the top even though Rob Bach, Ed Fries or J Allard were imho. the better candidates for that role.

Compared to the original, pioneers of the first xbox .. who all left ... why him? Ed Fries with his knowledge alone would have done a much better job. Phil does a good job a "keeping the cost low", but ... no risk, no fun.

Pretty sure he will be the first to take a dive, should the next box have rough start.
How does a person who works in this capacity all of a sudden become the head of Xbox? It feels like there's something's missing from this story? So Phil works for Encarta...does nothing after this, and then emerges as a Microsoft executive? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't see how that happens. If if that is in fact the case that he rose through the ranks at Microsoft...I think it matters more what he did when he got to that point. Phil is not a legend in my mind either, but that's because my idea of a legend is Hideo Kojima, somebody who either defines or transcends typical video game culture. Phil has done great things too, but just

I think my concern with Mark Cerny is his misrepresentations for the sake of competition. That, in my opinion blemishes his reputation. Not saying he didn't do great things, but there was a clear effort from him to cloud the narrative behind Xbox One X. He definitely wasn't the only one from Sony doing that, but his claims were strictly in reference the the PS4 Pro competitor. I'll again reference the needing 8 teraflops to render 4k...which is obviously false. Also he tried to pull that 8.4 teraflops half float garbage, that everyone ran with at the time. It wouldn't be so bad if he would have clarified this himself and not have the community basically debunk him on this. It's one thing I don't really like about some of Sony's tactics. They play dirty even when they are ahead. It kinda shameful.
 
May 6, 2012
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#73
I think my concern with Mark Cerny is his misrepresentations for the sake of competition. That, in my opinion blemishes his reputation. Not saying he didn't do great things, but there was a clear effort from him to cloud the narrative behind Xbox One X. He definitely wasn't the only one from Sony doing that, but his claims were strictly in reference the the PS4 Pro competitor. I'll again reference the needing 8 teraflops to render 4k...which is obviously false. Also he tried to pull that 8.4 teraflops half float garbage, that everyone ran with at the time. It wouldn't be so bad if he would have clarified this himself and not have the community basically debunk him on this. It's one thing I don't really like about some of Sony's tactics. They play dirty even when they are ahead. It kinda shameful.
PS4 Pro has a 4.2TF 32bit full precision GPU, it is however also capable of 8.4TF 16bit or half precision calculations, a fact that can be exploited to do certain things twice as fast at no extra cost. A fact which becomes clear when you know that there are certain shaders and aspects of rendering that can be done at half precision without any visible loss in quality. It wasn't some conspiracy to undermine the power and capability of Xbox One X, it was just a fact that PS4 Pro aka Neo was capable of that. Reading PS4 Pro dev documents makes that very clear, see the exerts below.



Secondly there are games that are running on PS4 Pro at native 4K,, heck you could render games at native 4K on PS3 and Xbox360. What he was saying was that he has seen first hand that 8TF is the minimum required to render most current generation games across the board at native 4K.
 
Dec 3, 2013
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#74
None of you noticed that before she brought Phil out, she mentioned Sony first, then Microsoft?

I think they have equal standing, but Phil was there. Sony's streaming platform isn't using AMD.
Sony streaming platform does use AMD because the blade thing is nothing new. PS Now PS3 games are using PS3 blades on a rack, and the PS4 games use PS4 blades.

Edit: Saw that you corrected, my bad.
 
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Likes: gspat
May 6, 2012
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#75
Phil Spencer is a legend in the industry in a similar vein to Shu Yoshida or Kaz Hirai and Reggie Fils Aime. He might not have been a game developer or programmer but he has been in charge and oversaw many projects, he has wielded enough power to close and open new studios, he is respected by his peers across the industry, his name is synonymous with Xbox. There are hundreds of legends in the industry we don't even know about because they mostly work in the background. Only a handful get to have their faces and names known by the general public at large. I've always hated the whole X person doesn't even know how to play games well so he or she is not a true gamer. The father of PlayStation was not really a gamer, he was an engineer who saw his daughter play a Nintendo console and thought to himself that he could engineer a better sound chip for the console.
 
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Dec 3, 2013
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#76
Phil Spencer is a legend in the industry in a similar vein to Shu Yoshida or Kaz Hirai and Reggie Fils Aime. He might not have been a game developer or programmer but he has been in charge and oversaw many projects, he has wielded enough power to close and open new studios, he is respected by his pairs across the industry, his name is synonymous with Xbox. There are hundreds of legends in the industry we don't even know about because they mostly work in the background. Only a handful get to have their faces and names known by the general public at large. I've always hated the whole X person doesn't even know how to play games well so he or she is not a true gamer. The father of PlayStation was not really a gamer, he was an engineer who saw his daughter play a Nintendo console and thought to himself that he could engineer a better sound chip for the console.
He's also a legend for Microsoft Game Studios being a stagnant turd on the PC all those years he was at the helm after their height prior.

But with all this talk where he wants to reinvest into that, I hope he definitely turns that sour note around.

You heard me Phil, Freelancer 2, make it happen.
 
Likes: Tarkus98
May 6, 2012
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#77
He's also a legend for Microsoft Game Studios being a stagnant turd on the PC all those years he was at the helm after their height prior.

But with all this talk where he wants to reinvest into that, I hope he definitely turns that sour note around.

You heard me Phil, Freelancer 2, make it happen.
Oh i don't disagree. He has been in charge of Xbox games for a long time, he has closed many studios and greenlit many bad as well as good games, and was part of the decision making process that birthed the original Xbox One vision though Don Mattrick took the fall for it on a big pile of money as a good leader should. Phil has been in charge of Xbox since the beginning of this generation when Don Mattrick was fired. Although he has been making some good moves as of late in preparation for next gen.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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#78
Ok, so your criteria for legend means you have to be a gamer, involved in the development of games...etc. Like I said before, everybody has their criteria. I'm not familiar with the "Encarta" team. Would you care to explain why this is a negative thing? Also your speculation on his career is seriously biased.

I'll agree that since he's taken over he should be held responsible for the majority of moves Xbox has made. However, I think he get free passes due to the fact that timelines overlap. Xbox didn't start a new when he took over and Phil was pretty clear on what his objectives were. The first thing he wanted to fix, was the hardware. Xbox One X did that. He then wanted to work on the services. Game Pass is a product of that effort. Lastly he wanted to work on the games. From a business perspective its the best way to do this because what good are the games if you don't have a proper platform to play it on? the services just enhance the value of the games. So think of the hard ware and services as laying the foundation upon which the gaming experience can be built. Good games take time. He's admitted this time and time again. However it's not like he's just sitting on his thumb now that the X is here and game pass is here. He's actively courted Japanese developers, he greenlit the acquisitions of multiple studios. He's now laying future foundations. It's still left to be seen if this will bring us what we want as gamers, but I would say he hasn't given me any reason to doubt him specifically so far.

You can't blame Phil Spencer, for example, for Sea of Thieves, State of Decay 2 or even halo 5's single player. He has no hand in how those games are developed. Yet you put Mark Cerny up there for making...what Marble Madness and Knack? I'm not saying Mark Cerny doesn't deserve any credit, but if we are keeping things factual, didn't Mark Cerny say you need 8 teraflops to do 4k gaming? Didn't he say the PS4 Pro would be able to do 8.4 teraflops with the 16-bit variable handling? Neither one of those statements is true. And Mark Cerny is close to being a legend for you? Ok...have fun with that.
Sometimes you need a face nobody knows and that is a good internal manager to change the PR outlook of the company (notice how his dress code changed overnight as he was primed as face of Xbox) and then you can sell him as good guy Phil that is changing the world and saving puppies ;).

The 8 TFLOPS for 4K statement, once you add context to it, is reasonable and if you take the most technically demanding games across the board and wanted to make it easy for developers to get them to be rendered at native 4K (likely with some head rooms to improve the visuals beyond resolution alone) then 8 TFLOPS would be the target they would have aimed at with the PS4 Pro had they aimed it as a true 4K next generation machine. I do not see a problem with that statement.

About the 8.4 TFLOPS numbers, that is the kind of performance level the HW has thanks to the support of double rate FP16 processing (he tried to say it in a way the more general public would understand) when the compute or graphics shaders are ported to rely on half floats. Again, I do not see a problem with that as it is factually true. When he discussed it with Gamasutra and other outlets he was very clear this was true for the code that could take advantage of it, but not that all code would and thus PS4 Pro would become a Scorpio killer. Insecurity behind the 6 TFLOPS beast moniker seems to have more to do with this than facts based evidence.

Again to reiterate, to say that “taking a portion of code using half floats exclusively throughout” would be processed at the equivalent speed “a machine with twice the FP processing power would have” and that since PS4 Pro processes 4.2 TFLOPS at FP32 precision this would mean the equivalent speed of a 8.4 TFLOPS machine (only for the portion of code using 100% half floats) is correct. I never seen a piece in which he mislead anyone about it. The anger around this seems more based on him being behind PS4 Pro, a Sony product, than what he actually said and did.

He is a technical guy (with a quite good business acumen in terms of games production) not a PR wordplay guy, so yeah he is not perfect ;).
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
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Unknown Body, Proxima Centauri, 4th O.B.
#79
Completely ignoring the PR horseshit, this is a really great example of how you can make people believe lies by repeating them endlessly. The AMD person introduced Phil Spencer as a "legend in the gaming industry" as if he has some long gaming heritage and has actually been instrumental or important to gaming when the reality is that he's a suit who's done absolutely nothing. People just keep repeating horseshit like this about him until people stop fact checking and just assume it's true. It's crazy how many articles and videos on the internet that you can read where they refer to him as if he actually made games or has been involved with them for decades.

He's done absolutely nothing for gaming. He's just a talking head for Microsoft who hasn't actually delivered on anything tangible since we've been subjected to seeing his head on the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Spencer_(business_executive)

Man, what a load of crap.
.... So what do you think of Reggie? Same shit, right?

All the fingerblaming you do on practically everyone in the industry but always chickening out when you need to prove your own body of work. Its really telling.
Legend can also just mean extremely famous in a certain field and I think Phil qualifies as being extremely famous though he is in fact just a talking head.
Exactly. We can all remember Reggie for instance. I don't mind what people consider legends, either by body of work or by being that long in the industry.

All this hate for no reason. Did someone hurt your feelings or something? You must be one of those flat earth conspiracy theories kind of guy with the kind of shit you are posting in this thread.
He isn't, but D-Head in generally dislikes a lot of things regarding gaming. Its kinda pedantic to be honest.

I for one didn't mind Spencer being there. He is a public figure of a big company, so its no surprise that he would show up.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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#80
Sometimes you need a face nobody knows and that is a good internal manager to change the PR outlook of the company (notice how his dress code changed overnight as he was primed as face of Xbox) and then you can sell him as good guy Phil that is changing the world and saving puppies ;).

The 8 TFLOPS for 4K statement, once you add context to it, is reasonable and if you take the most technically demanding games across the board and wanted to make it easy for developers to get them to be rendered at native 4K (likely with some head rooms to improve the visuals beyond resolution alone) then 8 TFLOPS would be the target they would have aimed at with the PS4 Pro had they aimed it as a true 4K next generation machine. I do not see a problem with that statement.

About the 8.4 TFLOPS numbers, that is the kind of performance level the HW has thanks to the support of double rate FP16 processing (he tried to say it in a way the more general public would understand) when the compute or graphics shaders are ported to rely on half floats. Again, I do not see a problem with that as it is factually true. When he discussed it with Gamasutra and other outlets he was very clear this was true for the code that could take advantage of it, but not that all code would and thus PS4 Pro would become a Scorpio killer. Insecurity behind the 6 TFLOPS beast moniker seems to have more to do with this than facts based evidence.

Again to reiterate, to say that “taking a portion of code using half floats exclusively throughout” would be processed at the equivalent speed “a machine with twice the FP processing power would have” and that since PS4 Pro processes 4.2 TFLOPS at FP32 precision this would mean the equivalent speed of a 8.4 TFLOPS machine (only for the portion of code using 100% half floats) is correct. I never seen a piece in which he mislead anyone about it. The anger around this seems more based on him being behind PS4 Pro, a Sony product, than what he actually said and did.

He is a technical guy (with a quite good business acumen in terms of games production) not a PR wordplay guy, so yeah he is not perfect ;).
The 8 TF for 4k statement was PR BS.

At the time X was coming out (or just released) and Cerny had to downplay it, since X is more powerful than Pro. He knows PS5 isn't coming out for years so he had to prop up Pro.

So what Cerny and Sony fans did was take that "if you double the TF using FP16 you get 8.4TF" which is more than X and solves the native 4k solution, and magically is more powerful than X since X somehow can't do this FP16/doubling to get 12 TF. After PRing that he'll disappear and let forums run with it.

He also did a disappearing act for Knack too. When PS4 was launching he was promoting Knack. Second it releases and gets lousy scores, guy disappeared for years. Knack 2 info comes out and Cerny pops up again. Knack 2 gets lousy scores again. Cerny disappears again.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
12,793
917
1,700
#81
The 8 TF for 4k statement was PR BS.

At the time X was coming out (or just released) and Cerny had to downplay it, since X is more powerful than Pro. He knows PS5 isn't coming out for years so he had to prop up Pro.

So what Cerny and Sony fans did was take that "if you double the TF using FP16 you get 8.4TF" which is more than X and solves the native 4k solution, and magically is more powerful than X since X somehow can't do this FP16/doubling to get 12 TF. After PRing that he'll disappear and let forums run with it.
Sony being blamed for some fans running with it is hardly fairer than blasting MS because people saw a prerendered video of a product not being launched for like a year and started to scream BEAST BEAST!!!!!! in every threads they could ;).

The 8 TFLOPS statement (which again makes sense with propercontext) and the double rate FP16 are not connected statements even if you are willing to stretch facts and see what else they could imply.

The statement around double speed half floats processing was made before PS4 Pro came out and at the time Xbox One X was quite far from coming out (article out on October 2016 and rumore about PS4 Pro HW were leaking before E3): http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/283611/Inside_the_PlayStation_4_Pro_with_Mark_Cerny.php

It was a factual statement, it has been used by both AMD and nVIDIA cards on PC and by developers on PS4 Pro and they have been honest and factual about what it was and where it could bring benefits. It is not magic, Xbox One X supercharged the Southern Island generation of AMD GPU cores while Y took some features from Vega. Xbox One X is still the faster of the two, but it is not Skny’s Fault if not being able to cal the competition half baked shit that is destroyed in every metric makes people feel insecure ;).
 
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