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[Tulipanzo]

Never said nothing to play, but none of those besides HZD can be consider amazing and would qualify as system seller to the point that you could argue that they sold the system to your casual gamer.

How does it feel to have such bad taste in games?

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

What projection?? You cant be serious.

MS is basically doing the same thing Sony is with the PS5. Games on Series X will be of Series X quality with Smart Delivery. And they still will deliver the same games on older hardware for those who still want to keep their One's. Thats with all their first party games.

3rd party can do what they want as they dont want to mandate what 3rd party developers do. Its literally a win-win. No projection. No BS. It is what it is.

Some of you kats seem super salty about all this for some reason.

Of course you are projecting...

You are setting you up for disappointment.. nothing that ms will show on the 23 will be mind blowing.. you are way over exaggerating what a 17% compute advantage deliver and forgetting all the architectural innovations PS5 bring...

On another note think about this... besides hallo that will look good for sure but is cross gen (compromised rather you liked or not) at launch ms will not have any exclusive to show what next gen gaming is all about and will relay on third party games that will be crossgen and for what we are already seeing will be very weak.. higher frame rate and 4K will not cut it.. people want to see new features like RT and improved fidelity..

Sony will have for sure two or tree strong exclusives in the launch window (first 6 months) that will impress. and If you think spider man miles morales will not impress and be a mere dlc... again you’re making a huge mistake and projecting your own hopes and dreams..

 

[Gavon West]

You have to assume they don't expect people to buy the Series X any time soon with this kind of rhetoric

They already stated officially. Phil is okay with people who dont feel the need to jump into next gen from the gate, especially with the current economic climate.

 

[Psykodad]

They already stated officially. Phil is okay with people who dont feel the need to jump into next gen from the gate, especially with the current economic climate.

Then what will they be selling? Because it isn't XBO either.

 

[quest]

Sony screwed me by giving me a next gen game on a next gen platforms?

PS4 was released in 2013. It's fucki g old and need to be retired

It's not a next generation game its cross generation being withheld for the "exclusive" labeling if that is nextgen then so is every first party series x game. You can try all the mental gymnastics you want the game is not built from scratch for the PS5 that will be spiderman 2.

 

[Gavon West]

Who knows. They've had the performance crown for 3 years now, and nothing they've released in that time looked noticeably better than Horizon, GoW or TLOU2. I've heard people say that that's just because base XB1 was holding them back, but if that's true then that shit is just gonna be the same next gen with Lockhart.

The timeline in your post isnt considered here. It was only AFTER they released the X Phil was promoted, MS began to back the Xbox division 100% and they began buying new studios. Thats not including the inception of GP. Things have changed considerably, even since One X was released.

 

[Tulipanzo]

They already stated officially. Phil is okay with people who dont feel the need to jump into next gen from the gate, especially with the current economic climate.

Console sales are what ultimately drives profit through user engagement, so this still looks like preemptive damage control for your next-gen system selling poorly.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Never said nothing to play, but none of those besides HZD can be consider amazing and would qualify as system seller to the point that you could argue that they sold the system to your casual gamer.



It was the price and release of the PS3 Slim that propelled the insane numbers nothing else, Xbox had the games and it didn't hold PS back. Its all about price and power, which the PS3 Slim had.



Cheaper and more powerful was the only driving force of the sales, not games, almost all the hits from Sony came in the 2nd half of the generation when they already had 65 Million - 75 Million units sold and that is a fact, so this narrative that you need console exclusives to sell consoles is just bullshit with absolutely no data backing it up, but just fanboy fud.

There is a clear and obvious correlation why systems sell well and the past two generations clearly point towards first and fore most the price with power coming in second and games in 3rd. There is nothing to argue here, if you genuinely believe exclusive games sell consoles your ignorant to the facts and just plain and simply biased.

History proves different and if price was the biggest factor then the Xbox One S would be outselling the PS4 and the PS4 Pro right now

 

[Tulipanzo]

Phil Spencer saying exclusives don't matter less than one week from their show is probably a bad sign :/

 

[Ascend]

History proves different and if price was the biggest factor then the Xbox One S would be outselling the PS4 and the PS4 Pro right now

Price is a much larger driving factor in the beginning of a generation. Afterwards, it basically becomes word of mouth, i.e. how many friends of yours have which console, so that you can play with them. It's one of the reasons that momentum rarely changes mid-gen, despite any changes in price and even general games and services.

 

[Gavon West]

Of course you are projecting...

You are setting you up for disappointment.. nothing that ms will show on the 23 will be mind blowing.. you are way over exaggerating what a 17% compute advantage deliver and forgetting all the architectural innovations PS5 bring...

On another note think about this... besides hallo that will look good for sure but is cross gen (compromised rather you liked or not) at launch ms will not have any exclusive to show what next gen gaming is all about and will relay on third party games that will be crossgen and for what we are already seeing will be very weak.. higher frame rate and 4K will not cut it.. people want to see new features like RT and improved fidelity..

Sony will have for sure two or tree strong exclusives in the launch window (first 6 months) that will impress. and If you think spider man miles morales will not impress and be a mere dlc... again you’re making a huge mistake and projecting your own hopes and dreams..

You. Are. High. AF.

Let me get this right: the presser coming up wont have any 1st party exclusives that will look next gen, only 3rd party (despite they showed only 3rd party games in the last presser and the upcoming is primarily 1st party games) to primarily show games on the Series X -- again, the most powerful console out of the two.

And i think youre saying dat PS5 SSD is going to perform miracles beyond a substantially more powerful GPU/CPU with its own super fast SSD? Just wanting to be clear here..

Tell you what champ; we'll see in a couple of weeks...

 

[Gavon West]

Then what will they be selling? Because it isn't XBO either.

Series X and Series S.

This narrative you guys are trying to create is super special. As i said before, we'll see in a couple of weeks.

 

[oldergamer]

Let me see... as a consumer putting that console next to my Xbox 360 both gotten at launch: WiFi built in (add $60-70 to Xbox 360’s price), SDCard and CF support and four USB ports (nothing but proprietary expansion cards at launch), BC with thousands of PS1 and PS2 titles, user replaceable open 60 GB HDD vs 20 GB proprietary MS expansion, SACD support, full featured Blu-Ray playback vs DVD only, HDMI vs Component/VGA, etc... yeah what a ripoff...

Again, there isn't a single thing you can say that will prove PS3 was a "deal" at $599. I had a 120GB hard drive on my 360. Not only that by I had an Xbox elite that was quieter and better then my PS3 (to this day). 599 was a rip off price that was not consumer friendly. PS3 didn't start selling well until they dropped some components and dropped the sticker price.

 

[Grinchy]

Phil Spencer saying exclusives don't matter less than one week from their show is probably a bad sign :/

Well at least they've found some 3rd party devs picking up the slack for them. The Medium and Scorn are both next-gen only.

And when they say that the games can't be scaled back for current gen, you see people excited by the idea of what makes them next-gen only. But then, they will go right back to saying "every game is scalable" the next day

Hopefully they have found more developers picking up the slack for them as the studios they bought work tirelessly to get their next-gen only games finished by year 2 or 3.

 

[sircaw]

Phil Spencer saying exclusives don't matter less than one week from their show is probably a bad sign :/

Its frightening tbh, i guess you could spin it as Microsoft might not have anything decent for a few years as they only recently acquired those new studios.
Some weird form of gas-lighting or something lol, can't really put my finger on it.

But either way, it does not inspire confidence.
but you never know, set the expectations really low and it might be a great ruse.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Price is a much larger driving factor in the beginning of a generation. Afterwards, it basically becomes word of mouth, i.e. how many friends of yours have which console, so that you can play with them. It's one of the reasons that momentum rarely changes mid-gen, despite any changes in price and even general games and services.

I agree price matters more at the start of a new generation but I'd say the games and mindshare are the biggest factors, barring a screw up like a $600 - $700 console

 

[Psykodad]

Series X and Series S.

This narrative you guys are trying to create is super special. As i said before, we'll see in a couple of weeks.

There is no narrative. Spencer and the xbox fanbase are flipflopping around like their pants are on fire.

Everything sounds like damage control ever since Sony had their PS5 reveal.

 

[Gavon West]

There is no narrative. Spencer and the xbox fanbase are flipflopping around like their panta are on fire.

Everything sounds like damage control ever since Sony had their PS5 reveal.

We'll see in a couple of weeks for sure. Hope you dudes keep this same fire after the presser. I can guarantee many will be eating crow. Thats where I'll leave it.

 

[Hobbygaming]

You. Are. High. AF.

Let me get this right: the presser coming up wont have any 1st party exclusives that will look next gen, only 3rd party (despite they showed only 3rd party games in the last presser and the upcoming is primarily 1st party games) to primarily show games on the Series X -- again, the most powerful console out of the two.

And i think youre saying dat PS5 SSD is going to perform miracles beyond a substantially more powerful GPU/CPU with its own super fast SSD? Just wanting to be clear here..

Tell you what champ; we'll see in a couple of weeks...

I think they'll have a great show but I also see PS5 having the most impressive software

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

You. Are. High. AF.

Let me get this right: the presser coming up wont have any 1st party exclusives that will look next gen, only 3rd party (despite they showed only 3rd party games in the last presser and the upcoming is primarily 1st party games) to primarily show games on the Series X -- again, the most powerful console out of the two.

And i think youre saying dat PS5 SSD is going to perform miracles beyond a substantially more powerful GPU/CPU with its own super fast SSD? Just wanting to be clear here..

Tell you what champ; we'll see in a couple of weeks...

Jesus man I don’t understand anything that you wrote? But it seems you get my post backwards..

reading your post it looks like you had a seizure while replaying to me..

And by the way you’re projecting again..

 

[Psykodad]

We'll see in a couple of weeks for sure. Hope you dudes keep this same fire after the presser. I can guarantee many will be eating crow. Thats where I'll leave it.

"you dudes"

I think people should lower their expectations, especially for Halo and Hellblade 2.

And if things come to worse for "us", "we" can just wait til August.

 

[tryDEATH]

XBO has been cheaper than PS4 for a long time.

History proves different and if price was the biggest factor then the Xbox One S would be outselling the PS4 and the PS4 Pro right now

Xbox One's reputation was eviscerated the moment it was presented. The price and messaging basically doomed it with no path to recovery. There is literally no amount of GOTY games that would have some how recovered the sales that they lost to Sony.

Phil has basically been running Xbox One as a rescue operation, if you will a goodwill tour to get back its reputation and on the good side of gamers. Something he is doing with his pro-consumer decision when it comes to next generation, where he can go on the offensive instead of playing catch up in a long lost race.

 

[lastmessiah]

What the hell is "GOTY" even supposed to mean to me? Who decides what is GOTY, gaming "journalists"? Why would I care about that? I hope MS continues to make games that are decidedly NOT GOTY.

 

[Psykodad]

Xbox One's reputation was eviscerated the moment it was presented. The price and messaging basically doomed it with no path to recovery. There is literally no amount of GOTY games that would have some how recovered the sales that they lost to Sony.

Phil has basically been running Xbox One as a rescue operation, if you will a goodwill tour to get back its reputation and on the good side of gamers. Something he is doing with his pro-consumer decision when it comes to next generation, where he can go on the offensive instead of playing catch up in a long lost race.

Still no explanation why PS3 managed to outsell X360 then, since clearly price doesn't matter that much.

 

[Nikana]

There is no narrative. Spencer and the xbox fanbase are flipflopping around like their pants are on fire.

Everything sounds like damage control ever since Sony had their PS5 reveal.

 

[Psykodad]

That's 3 gif replies in a row. Quite telling.

 

[LazyParrot]

The timeline in your post isnt considered here. It was only AFTER they released the X Phil was promoted, MS began to back the Xbox division 100% and they began buying new studios. Thats not including the inception of GP. Things have changed considerably, even since One X was released.

Eh... I'll believe it once I see the games.

 

[Nikana]

That's 3 gif replies in a row. Quite telling.

Whatever you say.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I hope MS continues to make games that are decidedly NOT GOTY.

I'm sure they will.

 

[Tulipanzo]

That's 3 gif replies in a row. Quite telling.

Meaningfully contributing to discussion is hard

 

[tryDEATH]

Still no explanation why PS3 managed to outsell X360 then, since clearly price doesn't matter that much.

Price, Power, and as you initially said and I agreed brand recognition. PS3 managed to catch up to Xbox at the end of the generation and it sure as hell wasn't because of games, because Xbox 360 had that on lock.

Xbox One just fucked up so monumentally that there was no coming back.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Xbox One's reputation was eviscerated the moment it was presented. The price and messaging basically doomed it with no path to recovery. There is literally no amount of GOTY games that would have some how recovered the sales that they lost to Sony.

Phil has basically been running Xbox One as a rescue operation, if you will a goodwill tour to get back its reputation and on the good side of gamers. Something he is doing with his pro-consumer decision when it comes to next generation, where he can go on the offensive instead of playing catch up in a long lost race.

We'll see what they can do but it starts with the games that's the most important piece of the puzzle

I should know as I bought my PS4 for Uncharted 4 and I haven't looked back since

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I was going to be snarky, but no, you simply don't know what is going on on either the CPU side or GPU side without metrics, so I would refrain from making claims like that. You don't know what is going on on each thread, what processes are running there and how much CPU time they are taking just by looking at a trailer. You need performance tools.

I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of stuff that can be cut out from the game or scaled down, but you simply don't know given that they are working with a very high baseline and designing their game around it.

What features can be scaled down and which ones need to be cut? And what can't be cut? In the case of Horizon, what if a low end PC can't load up the terrain on time due to slow SSD or worse, an HDD? What if the low end console has to cut out flying because the terrain can't be loaded fast enough? What if fluid simulation takes a significant part of gameplay and that needs to be cut out? What if the game simulation is too much for a jaguar CPU alongside all the draw calls it has to make? What if you have to remove/replace too many assets since you are working with ~13 GBs of high speed ram?

"EVERYTHING IS SCALABLE!!" is a marketing theme by MS, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. Maybe you have to cut out so much the game is just way too different. I mean, you can "scale down" any game to an Atari 3600 by removing everything, but that's not the point.

If we are talking about the same game just with some settings turned down, with the same features, you WILL design the game around the old CPU and I/O, you just have to.

Thank you for saying this, because neither do you

 

[Psykodad]

Price, Power, and as you initially said and I agreed brand recognition. PS3 managed to catch up to Xbox at the end of the generation and it sure as hell wasn't because of games, because Xbox 360 had that on lock.

Xbox One just fucked up so monumentally that there was no coming back.

KZ2, Uncharted 1-3, LBP, TLOU, GOW3. Those didn't matter?

Besides, how did Playstation get their brand recognition if it wasn't for the games?

 

[tryDEATH]

We'll see what they can do but it starts with the games that's the most important piece of the puzzle

I should know as I bought my PS4 for Uncharted 4 and I haven't looked back since

Yeah it starts with games no doubt, just not exclusive games or else those exclusive games would be pulling in ridiculous numbers, which they aren't. For every Uncharted 4 there are about 10 Timmy's that bought their PS4 due to FIFA and CoD.

 

[Nikana]

Meaningfully contributing to discussion is hard

 

[Hobbygaming]

Yeah it starts with games no doubt, just not exclusive games or else those exclusive games would be pulling in ridiculous numbers, which they aren't. For every Uncharted 4 there are about 10 Timmy's that bought their PS4 due to FIFA and CoD.

Purchasing a console would you rather have a console with

Great exclusives and FIFA and CoD
or
Ok exclusives and FIFA and CoD

Which one would you choose?

 

[Tulipanzo]

I get it, when the head of XBox says something really stupid it's easier to ignore it than to try and justify your pov.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Yeah it starts with games no doubt, just not exclusive games or else those exclusive games would be pulling in ridiculous numbers, which they aren't. For every Uncharted 4 there are about 10 Timmy's that bought their PS4 due to FIFA and CoD.

Yes, we all know the real vote on what console "wins" is decided by the people who want games you can play on either system, to be fair Uncharted 4's lifetime sales aren't that much lower than your average CoD but that's sorta besides the point. It's hard to measure what drives the people who buy Madden and whatever else to what console, I mean if I went by anecdotal evidence people like my younger brother and even younger cousin wouldn't switch from XBOX as a brand because their friends all play on it but my brother really wants to play stuff like TLOU II and other Sony exclusives and has tried persuading his friends to change over but they're not interested. He's tied at the hip to them. When it comes to hardcore gamers... people who post on NeoGAF most often exclusives absolutely matter and friends? I don't have real life friends, the only friends I have I make on dumb internet forums or in video game lobbies, so I go where the games are. People like me are an easy audience for Sony to target by giving me games I can't get elsewhere like Demon's Souls remake. Like that's it, they won again because I want Demon's Souls' remake. But who knows what combination of reasons are required for the people who aren't swayed by exclusives.

 

[tryDEATH]

KZ2, Uncharted 1-3, LBP, TLOU, GOW3. Those didn't matter?

Besides, how did Playstation get their brand recognition if it wasn't for the games?

Not compared to Xbox 360's line up and better playing multiplats.

They have been in the business since 1994 that is a 7 year head start it has nothing to do with exclusive games, they barely even have any exclusive games dating that far back which they can call back on. I should know I had a Playstation and played Fifa, Crash, Spyro, Twisted Metal, and FF on it.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Not compared to Xbox 360's line up and better playing multiplats.

They have been in the business since 1994 that is a 7 year head start it has nothing to do with exclusive games, they barely even have any exclusive games dating that far back which they can call back on. I should know I had a Playstation and played Fifa, Crash, Spyro, Twisted Metal, and FF on it.

360's exclusive line-up was HUGE in the first 2 years... before their timed exclusivity deals ended... by the end of that generation, on a worldwide scale, PS3 outsold 360... wonder why?

 

[Nikana]

I get it, when the head of XBox says something really stupid it's easier to ignore it than to try and justify your pov.

I'd have an easier time trying to explain how Movie Pass would make money then trying to explain anything to you about Microsoft.

 

[Tulipanzo]

I'd have an easier time trying to explain how Movie Pass would make money then trying to explain anything to you about Microsoft.

Didn't Movie Pass famously fail? Kind of unfortunate comparison there

 

[Psykodad]

Not compared to Xbox 360's line up and better playing multiplats.

They have been in the business since 1994 that is a 7 year head start it has nothing to do with exclusive games, they barely even have any exclusive games dating that far back which they can call back on. I should know I had a Playstation and played Fifa, Crash, Spyro, Twisted Metal, and FF on it.

Yet PS3 managed to outsell X360 at a lower price, but XBO can't.

Why? Because of the games.
And it surely isn't 3rd party because those ran better on X360.

3rd party are the core of gaming, so all that's left are exclusives.
Those are the very reason for Playstation mindshare and brand recognition, which is build on word of mouth.

You can move goalposts all you want, it'll always boil down to that point.
So I'll save us both the trouble and just leave it at that.

 

[Ascend]

360's exclusive line-up was HUGE in the first 2 years... before their timed exclusivity deals ended... by the end of that generation, on a worldwide scale, PS3 outsold 360... wonder why?

Because Japan

 

[tryDEATH]

Purchasing a console would you rather have a console with

Great exclusives and FIFA and CoD
or
Ok exclusives and FIFA and CoD

Which one would you choose?

Well, it all comes down to what you prefer as your "exclusive" games if it's MP you go with Xbox if its Single player you go with Sony. If either company offers both great multiplayer and single player games plus FIFA and CoD you would obviously go with that one.

But, then you also take into account price and its ecosystem as Explosive Zombie said which depends on your friends as well, games just aren't the be all end all like they used to be in the PS1/2 days.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Yet PS3 managed to outsell X360 at a lower price, but XBO can't.

Why? Because of the games.
And it surely isn't 3rd party because those ran better on X360.

3rd party are the core of gaming, so all that's left are exclusives.
Those are the very reason for midshare, which is build on word of mouth.

You can move goalposts all you want, it'll always boil down to that point.
So I'll save us both the trouble and just leave it at that.

I will say that regardless of how that generation ended on a worldwide scale (Sony really had a huge comeback beginning in 2009) the mindset was still that they went wrong in the first half of the generation and PS4 was very much like a course correction. They didn't just accept victory and pretend it meant they did everything right, they remained on their toes and I think that's part of the secret to why PS4 was so huge.

 

[Psykodad]

I will say that regardless of how that generation ended on a worldwide scale (Sony really had a huge comeback beginning in 2009) the mindset was still that they went wrong in the first half of the generation and PS4 was very much like a course correction. They didn't just accept victory and pretend it meant they did everything right, they remained on their toes and I think that's part of the secret to why PS4 was so huge.

For sure. Sony definitely learned from their mistakes with PS3 and it shows.

 

[trapanesenyc]

It's not a next generation game its cross generation being withheld for the "exclusive" labeling if that is nextgen then so is every first party series x game. You can try all the mental gymnastics you want the game is not built from scratch for the PS5 that will be spiderman 2.

Yea, it's odd how many people are okay with anti consumer moves when it benefits their favorite console. Like a game thats an updated version of the ps4 game with new content being marketed as "ps5 only" but I'm sure can be played on ps4 in some capacity, and the fans are okay with that? Just odd to me.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

For sure. Sony definitely learned from their mistakes with PS3 and it shows.

And Microsoft has learned from theirs, they've been going in a more pro-consumer direction. The thing is they're taking it to the extreme by giving up on exclusivity. They seem to be operating on the belief that being pro-consumer will win you the war because people will appreciate it... while Switch sells gangbusters being sold by the most anti-consumer console manufacturing company in existence.