WrenchNinja
Member
Why should they be given the benefit of the doubt?
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Phil Spencer: Goals is to get Indies access to full pool of resources on Xbone
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
Glorified G
Member
Op forgot "Goal" in the title
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I'm hoping this is true but really, it's hard to take everything MSFT says at face value. He could just say, "yes, full access.". Not "goal". That isn't as definitive but I do hope they get there sooner than later.
Garrett 2U
Member
Official news drops at Gamescom
They've said this about self publishing so far
http://majornelson.com/2013/07/24/self-publishing-is-coming-to-xbox-one/
The only thing I know for certain is it costs $500.
What if cboat IS a top MS exec?
Honestly, my guess is at the very least he works at Microsoft internally. Maybe top level engineer or programmer or something. He seems to know a lot more about Microsoft than Sony, so I doubt he's a multiplat dev or something like that. Plus there's info on exclusives etc (World of Tanks) and other inside information I doubt third parties would be privy to.
Or he is a A.I. created somehow accidentaly by mistake while people tried to hack the deepest layer of the Darknet.
And that it's coming with Kinect. Don't forget that, it's important.
Honestly, to me it's pretty obvious.
There's *zero* way anybody can just turn an Xbox One into a full-fledged debug kit will full access to the hardware. Just as in there's no way indies will have full access to the hardware unless they push their games through the Live marketplace or whatever the hell it's going to be called on the Xbox One (and not through the Windows 8 Store, which is what this is most likely referring to). You know why? Because if they did, you'd have a way to do a lot of nasty stuff with the console that Microsoft truly doesn't want. This essentially means the console is an open platform where anybody can just develop anything they want, and that's the opposite of the direction MS is taking.
So all this information can mean a few things.
1- If you want to self-publish on the Xbox One, you *absolutely* must do so through the Windows 8 Store (if you're an indie, that is). That implies the restrictions (not limits) that apply to Metro apps (access to less ram on the Xbox One because the Windows 8 portion of the console reserves 3 gigs of ram for itself).
2- If you want full access to the Xbox One hardware, you *absolutely* need a publisher to push content to the Xbox One Marketplace (the XBLA equivalent, again I have no clue how this is gonna be called now). This comes with zero actual restrictions towards the console (you can push it to its limits!) but it need to go through Microsoft QA and carries the inherent problems of XBLA publishing.
Now what I'm wondering is how much ram is actually reserved for Windows 8 on the Xbox One. Do we have a clear confirmation as to that? Because should the Windows 8 portion of the console be able to reserve all the available ram in the console, it could, in theory, have as much ram as the console will allow, but still be restricted to Windows 8 Apps and not have full access to the console.
"No indie ram/access limit" can mean a shitload of things. It can mean that indies can self-publish games on the Xbox One's Live Marketplace with full access to the system. It can mean that there's no limit imposed on indies while developing for Windows 8 on the Xbox One. It can mean indies can develop using an Xbox One as a dev kit and push to the marketplace (not the Windows 8 Marketplace but the Xbox One marketplace). It's so vague and ridiculous.. Microsoft just is unable to clearly state their intent for *anything*.
BTW, Unity has added in support for Windows 8 with Unity 4.2 that released this week. We work extensively with Unity at my job and we found it kinda cute we could now push Windows 8 and Windows Phone apps, but lo and behold, you can only build Windows 8 Apps and Windows Phone apps if you're running Windows 8. The API and the SDK aren't available to Windows under 8. I understand from a debugging standpoint - if you don't have Metro, how could you even run a Metro app, but it's kinda sad you can't do anything without it. So my guess is they're going to push hard for indies to switch to Windows 8 to be able to publish anything on the Xbox One because it'll be required, and they're probably thinking that PR-wise, if even hipster indie developers are using Windows 8, why aren't you?
There's *zero* way anybody can just turn an Xbox One into a full-fledged debug kit will full access to the hardware. Just as in there's no way indies will have full access to the hardware unless they push their games through the Live marketplace or whatever the hell it's going to be called on the Xbox One (and not through the Windows 8 Store, which is what this is most likely referring to). You know why? Because if they did, you'd have a way to do a lot of nasty stuff with the console that Microsoft truly doesn't want. This essentially means the console is an open platform where anybody can just develop anything they want, and that's the opposite of the direction MS is taking.
So all this information can mean a few things.
1- If you want to self-publish on the Xbox One, you *absolutely* must do so through the Windows 8 Store (if you're an indie, that is). That implies the restrictions (not limits) that apply to Metro apps (access to less ram on the Xbox One because the Windows 8 portion of the console reserves 3 gigs of ram for itself).
2- If you want full access to the Xbox One hardware, you *absolutely* need a publisher to push content to the Xbox One Marketplace (the XBLA equivalent, again I have no clue how this is gonna be called now). This comes with zero actual restrictions towards the console (you can push it to its limits!) but it need to go through Microsoft QA and carries the inherent problems of XBLA publishing.
Now what I'm wondering is how much ram is actually reserved for Windows 8 on the Xbox One. Do we have a clear confirmation as to that? Because should the Windows 8 portion of the console be able to reserve all the available ram in the console, it could, in theory, have as much ram as the console will allow, but still be restricted to Windows 8 Apps and not have full access to the console.
"No indie ram/access limit" can mean a shitload of things. It can mean that indies can self-publish games on the Xbox One's Live Marketplace with full access to the system. It can mean that there's no limit imposed on indies while developing for Windows 8 on the Xbox One. It can mean indies can develop using an Xbox One as a dev kit and push to the marketplace (not the Windows 8 Marketplace but the Xbox One marketplace). It's so vague and ridiculous.. Microsoft just is unable to clearly state their intent for *anything*.
BTW, Unity has added in support for Windows 8 with Unity 4.2 that released this week. We work extensively with Unity at my job and we found it kinda cute we could now push Windows 8 and Windows Phone apps, but lo and behold, you can only build Windows 8 Apps and Windows Phone apps if you're running Windows 8. The API and the SDK aren't available to Windows under 8. I understand from a debugging standpoint - if you don't have Metro, how could you even run a Metro app, but it's kinda sad you can't do anything without it. So my guess is they're going to push hard for indies to switch to Windows 8 to be able to publish anything on the Xbox One because it'll be required, and they're probably thinking that PR-wise, if even hipster indie developers are using Windows 8, why aren't you?
Not sure if serious, but I'll take the bait.
You don't need a separate app, just overlay a menu on one side of the screen. You could use smartglass to push a menu to a separate device, but that too is kinda unnecessary.
the bolded is what differentiate it from the ps3, MS knows theyve been arrogant and are trying to right their wrong before the console launches.
Sony was confidently arrogant with the ps3 that they released the console before making changes.
I don't get it, is he confirming it or not? He just copied and pasted the title of the article, which just refers back to Phil Spencer's post about the end "goal". I wish Microsoft would just stop pussy footing around and give us straight answers.
That's a tweet about an article about a tweet about their "goals". What's the point of posting this?
Ricerocket
Member
That tweet is referring to the same tweet in OP...
MS's problem is mostly policies. Sony's problem with PS3 was complicated hardware and Blu-ray. Neither of which is something as easily changed as policies.
This is a continuation of the kind of unclear PR speak that has plagued Microsoft since the reveal and the run up to it. The guy who's tweet is linked works at Microsoft.
nailbombxx
Member
Microsoft also had a goal to crush all used game competition and keep you online 24/7 for the ad revenue.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Good title change.
jordan0386
Member
It was the one oppurtunity to rid ourselves of Gamestop, and the world pussied out.
Gamespot is good for consumers though, despite the fact some some here are too short sighted to see it. Gamespot is however bad for bottom dollar profits for devs and pubs, but only at the expense of consumer choice and value proposition. I'll side with the one that offers us consumers more, i.e. the latter.
But GameStop was one of their "preferred retailers" so it wasn't going to hurt them. Only mom and pop stores and gamefly.
nailbombxx
Member
Probably because the world likes their possessions to be of worth.
travisbickle
Member
Wasn't Gamestop one of the stores MS were going to contract with?
It was an opportunity to change the rules of consumer ownership of disc-game titles.
LukasTaves
Member
Not sure if thread worhty, but apparently Major Nelson on reddit have said that on the xbone, mod support is up to the developer.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Micr...ort-Mods-If-Developers-Want-Them-370995.shtml
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Micr...ort-Mods-If-Developers-Want-Them-370995.shtml
HORRORSHØW
Member
Awesome if true; however, the way Spencer qualifies his wording makes me weary. Time will tell.
Because they are making this shit up as they go, just like they seem to have been doing for this entire console launch/reveal.
The best way to kill off Gamestop's used game business is to beat them on pricing, not implement poorly thought out DRM.
Interesting. I asked this question when the dev kit news first came out, hope this actually happens. After playing Skyrim on PC vs consoles the difference is like Night and Day.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
It doesn't get any clearer than "NO INDIE RAM LIMIT".
Props on thread title change.
Their goal. And I'll believe it when I see it.
#TeamCBOAT
Their goal. And I'll believe it when I see it.
#TeamCBOAT
No indie RAM limit means shit when there are 2 completely segregated pools of RAM. One 3 GB, one 5 GB. Saying there's "no limit" doesn't makes sense. Even AAA devs are limited to 5 GB RAM. So which pool of segregated RAM do unpublished indie devs have access to? All 3 GB or all 5 GB? It's still fucking unclear! Can't you see that?
The indie memory/resource limit makes sense in the context of every xbone being a development tool, as you could use the memory not used in the WindowsRT framework to debug. Just like a regular devkit has extra memory and resources compared to a regular console. This makes sense.
I don't understand how you could run debugging software and other development tools with a regular console, and have it be a anywhere near comparable environment to a proper devkit.
I don't understand how you could run debugging software and other development tools with a regular console, and have it be a anywhere near comparable environment to a proper devkit.
LukasTaves
Member
I don't know how you can interpret that as any other way than indie developers will get the same resources as backed-by-publisher ones.
They maybe lying, but that was a direct response to a question that asked if the hardware resources would be limited to indie devs compared to other devs... So even if they give full memory access to the 3GB memory pool, that would still be a limit that is imposed only to indies.
And with one word it throws the whole deal up in the air, how anyone can take them at their word anymore. Goal, allows so many things to be read into it, and with ms reading into things they have said is almost nailed on at this point, never take them at their word and never just pass off the wording as they have shown the wording is everything with them at this point.
He asked two questions and got a single word response.
So initially devs will be limited? Then down the road when you're fully implemented, devs will have access to everything?
Yes.
If this happens, then great. But I'm taking lots of grains of salt lately.
Phil Spencer was asked "So do indie devs get access to the bigger pool of RAM? Or are we limited to the 3GB in the windows partition?"
His response was "Goals is to allow devs access to full pool of resources available, no indie RAM limit.'
Now I can understand being skeptical about Microsoft delivering on this. But his language is pretty clear. Microsoft's goal is to not have any memory restriction for indie developers.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Edit: what the guy above said.
Whether it happens remains to be seen. But the that message is pretty clear.
LukasTaves
Member
That's not what the OP twitter says.
He was asked if indies get the bigger pool, or are restricted to the 3GB application pool. To which the response was, The goal is to give full resource access, and have no RAM limit to indies.
What the fuck is the word "goal" doing in that sentence though? "Yes, indie devs who self publish will have access to the entire 5GB RAM." There, was that so fucking hard? I'm tired of the sentences that have to be interpreted by a contract attorney. "Our goal is to provide..." That's "language that's clear" to you?
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