It's both, but the console wars would be there regardless, so I think DF is a net positive.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Phil Spencer: "Not a fan of marketing deals with exclusive content"
- Thread starter MauroNL
- Start date
It's both, but the console wars would be there regardless, so I think DF is a net positive.
To be clear, I'm not saying that any of this is great.
I'm not saying what he sad was good or bad. But Spencer did specify timed exclusive content. I'm just pointing that out.
That's for Matt to elaborate on if he wants to. As far as I know (?) they didn't announce anything with timed exclusive content? Could just be a comfortable way to make MS look like the good guys. That's for you to decide.
I'm not saying what he sad was good or bad. But Spencer did specify timed exclusive content. I'm just pointing that out.
That's for Matt to elaborate on if he wants to. As far as I know (?) they didn't announce anything with timed exclusive content? Could just be a comfortable way to make MS look like the good guys. That's for you to decide.
I'm with you.
For me timed exclusive console launches or whatever are damn annoying just as much as held back content.
I don't want to play Tacoma or PUBG after a year of waiting, I want to play them as early as possible.
I feel like it's been held back from me.
Sure maybe MS helped funding etc but we could level the same at Sony paying for the Destiny content to be actually made (it's all messed up).
Phil is a bit hypocrital here, if Xbox was in the lead, he'd be gobbling up every piece of exclusive marketing he could get.
Just own it Phil, this console launch exclusivity is your new path down this road.
Why MS doesn't get that "arrogant MS" thing?Because in that case it would absolutly fit. Or this "the PS4 Pro is competiting with the XO S, not the XO X" thing. Ahah.
Every exclusive content or temporary exlusive game/content sucks.
Because it's weird to label the clear loser as arrogant.
TBiddy
Member
Yes, but that's not what you wrote. Hence the hyperbole part.
Which part of my posts are confusing? I'm not a native English speaker, so if there's anything you're having trouble understanding, please say so.
Brand loyalty is important, but as long as you buy their consoles neither Sony nor MS gives a shit about what you think about their policies or how you feel about their game lineup at E3.
morgtheborg140
Neo Member
So its ok to look away whole games for a period of time, but not a weapon or a mission???
These deals make sense for the smaller devs looking to lift off, which this year was pretty much those very same developers.
Tomb Raider or Street Fighter on the other hand? Total bullshit.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Why MS doesn't get that "arrogant MS" thing?
Every exclusive content or temporary exlusive game/content sucks.
But it's not arrogance when he's basically being a massive hypocrite. He's absolutely spinning to try and look good in the media, when anyone with a bit of knowledge or critical thinking will realise he's full of shit.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
That's an interesting question, especially considering I've been thinking for awhile that one of the reasons X1X exists is to win the DigitalFoundry face off every time. Just to get out from under that dark cloud, and you know damn well it will ripple through every youtube comment section's shitposts and flame wars. It doesn't have to light the world on fire, it just has to be the premium option for any percentage of new or existing customers, and be good for the brand's image. As it should be.
Not because they partnered with them for access, but because the system really will be a beast and who better to communicate the system's advantages... so why wouldn't you tap DF to evangelize your advantages? They'd do it anyway, and it's mutally beneficial. So I don't consider it to be a Polygon documentary kinda thing at all.
I think DF does have the unintended side effect of exactly what you said, or maybe have partly emerged out of it (or at least come to prominence amidst it), but I don't think it's anything more than a natural byproduct of doing something genuine.
They're not noxious people and they tend to give credit wherever credit is due. I think it's mostly a positive force that helps keep standards high, and helps people understand or appreciate polish and performance. It's definitely helped me over the years, and I get a lot out of it, but I also don't really fight - if I don't own something, it's purely because I can't afford everything and can barely keep up with what I already have to play anyway.
DF's retro game coverage especially shows that what they do isn't inherently linked to current states of competition and purchase prospects. The retro game collector market certainly isn't coming to them to price their games... but you know what, I bet great videos like that Soul Calibur one will naturally lead to people looking for a Dreamcast on ebay, and anything dealing with games from an era where Nintendo, Sega and Sony were pitted against each other will drudge up a fight in the comment section about bygone pros and cons.
I think they're doing good in the same way that TotalBiscuit's fixation on PC menus, options, and optimization proliferated a lot of beneficial expectations and standards too. Sure, that guy's passions may consequentially fuel console peasant, master race mentality... AND it may have even been the type of second hand knowledge ammo that lets people make mountains out of molehills and punish games, or exploit infamous refund opportunities because they can cite issues that they didn't actually experience or even really comprehend. I don't think it's deliberate, machiavellian influencing, though. Just collateral consequence.
I don't even think that about Phil Spencer, or Microsoft... I just look at that as business, recognizing what people are already doing, and capitalizing on it. Any company will do that when they can. If it was irresponsibly playing with real fire like politics do, it'd be a problem, but since it's just games, products, and team spirit - it's harmless.
The only consequence any of this stuff ever has, is when it makes things anti-consumer for any of us... paid online, gacha gambling, DRM, and all that BS. That's when you can tell someone their hot air is pollution and take 'em to task for it.
funkystudent
Member
I like Phil but this E3 it feels like he is tossing the bullshit normally left for Greenberg or Major Nelson.
Previously it felt like they wanted to keep Spenser away from the mud slinging and leave that to the PR attack dogs
Previously it felt like they wanted to keep Spenser away from the mud slinging and leave that to the PR attack dogs
SenkiDala
Member
Well yes, in that case.
But in the case of "the PS4 pro compete with XO S, not the XO X" it's clearly arrogance to me, a very good exemple of it in fact. ZachzOOming
Member
... Phil... I remember a time when I believed he might convince me to get an Xbox One (I already own PS4, Wii U and more recently Switch). I don't anymore.. (at least not this gen, I don't think)
You gotta laugh at folk who think something is wrong when someone comes along and beats you at your own game lol
Fredrik
Member
Even if Phil wasn't in charge of the previous less popular exclusivity deals he shouldn't say that he dislikes these deals unless he start by saying that he's so sorry for how his predecessors acted.
You don't see Sony mocking MS for the price of Xbox One X. Because they're smarter than that. They know their company history. Phil don't.
You don't see Sony mocking MS for the price of Xbox One X. Because they're smarter than that. They know their company history. Phil don't.
Unreal Champ
Banned
Man there are a lot of dumb people on NeoGAF. As much as I don't like Phil, he already said on the Gamespot interview that the Tomb Raider deal was done before he took over.
He said those deals were in place before he took over.
He said those deals were in place before he took over.
SenkiDala
Member
All the "First on Xbox" from the conference of this 2017 E3, Don Mattrick? again? Sure...
But yeah, Philly is your deep friend.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yeah, okay. So what about the deal for Dead Rising 4, which came out by my reckoning about 33 months after he took over as head of Xbox? Was that done before Poor Innocent Phil's tenure as well? What about The Division or Anthem? What about the conference a few days ago which was rife with questionable use of the word 'Exclusive'. I guess Evil Don is to blame for all that as well?
All the "First on Xbox" from the conference of this 2017 E3, Don Mattrick? again? Sure...
But yeah, Philly is your deep friend.
A timed exclusive is not always paid ? If you know that they paid for those in their conference please share it. We dont have the details.
I imagine that most of those smaller studios cant afford both plattforms at a time, so some choose to do xbox first and some choose playstation first. Nothing wrong with that ?
You remember a time when a brand manager might had convince you to buy his product???
Yeah, it's hilarious. Combined with Ryan's comments from Sony, this years E3 delivered on weird statements and comments, where it failed to deliver new games.
TBiddy
Member
Reading comprehension isn't a requirement for getting outraged. The amount of concern trolling in any threads regarding MS is staggering.
GHG
Gold Member
No, the only thing that's staggering is the relentless defence force from fanboys. And that goes for all the ridiculous shit that's come out during the last couple of days over E3 from all manufacturers.
It will be ok if you admit there is something wrong, your precious box won't delete your account and prevent you from playing your favourite games anymore.
I mean am not surprised but good to have this. There is almost nothing Phil says you can take at face value.
Hmmmm
Originally Posted by Phil Spencer regarding Tomb Raider exclusivity said:
Unreal Champ
Banned
All the "First on Xbox" from the conference of this 2017 E3, Don Mattrick? again? Sure...
But yeah, Philly is your deep friend.
Ummm because exclusive content isn't the same thing as an exclusive game or getting the game as a timed exclusive. I mean you have a brain, its not hard to tell the two apart.
Which I find funny because GAF likes to portray itself as the intelligent forum of the internet, but yet majority of the posters in this topic alone are just as bad or even worse than a poster on Gamefaqs.
Ok fair enough but still time exclusive game =/= time exclusive content. It's not the same thing.
TBiddy
Member
It goes both ways. On the one hand you have a large amount of "concerned" posters posting ridiculous things, which then triggers a response from the fanboys to defend their console of choice.
Examples could be "There's no games for the XBOX. I'm not gonna buy it." or "Sony!!! No crossplay, no buy!!". Or perhaps "<insert name of public figure here> is an idiot. Full of bullshit." You, me and everyone else knows that rapid fanboys are never going to buy the console made by the enemy. And if they did, they would never admit it.
I highly enjoyed my PS3, even though I'm biased towards MS. I'm also sad that I can't play Uncharted, TLoU or some of the other great exclusives that Sony has, and I'd wish that MS did more in that regard. But even though I'm biased towards MS, you'd rarely (I'd like to think never) see me in threads regarding Sony or PS stirring up shit.
True. But on the whole, it's usually a small minority of regulars doing the shit-stirring (?). I'd still regard GAF as a better place for discussions than most other forums.
BlackClouds
Member
Gotta love these comments by Phil Spence. He's delivering talking points to the various Xbox minions out there that would actually follow his comments. The real question is, why is he apparently a fan of stoking fanboy fires? This is so silly.
ZachzOOming
Member
panda-zebra
Banned
What? Both practices could involve spending or not, there's no fixed rule in either case. Deals to delay content appearing on other platforms are shitty. Deals to prevent whole games being delayed on other platforms are shitty. Both these kinds of deals might come at a cost to the platformholder or not, instead they might involve promotional advantages to the producers or not (such as appearing at a presser with a large audience, for example). There's also ways of wording these things in terms of being paid to create exclusive content rather than slicing off a chunk of a game for exclusivity... they both amount to the same thing for us gamers, but we rarely get to know exactly what was agreed. Therefore, singling one practise out as being a bit shitty while actively participating in the other is rightly seen as hypocritical. No amount of shaking your head will negate this fact.
Couple this comment with the Pro being a direct competitor to the S rather than the X because X is "True 4K" after a year's worth of " true 4K/purest pixels" rhetoric and the questionable icon use on the website indicating "4K Ultra HD" content could equally well be CBR or dynamically scaled, and it's not all that difficult to see why people are questioning the guy's integrity.
It's understandable in a way, if not excusable: he's chosen this path of a year later with more power for the mid-gen refresh, we can witness his confidence (some might prefer arrogance) when we take a look at the wall of cringe at E3 "Almost unfair. Terrifying clarity. Feel every pixel.". Yet there's no denying the outright disappointment and even upset at the $499 pricing. Add to this the reaction to a conference of game after game with plenty of timed "exclusives" that failed to offer much in the way of really compelling and excitingly unexpected first party exclusives to give confidence in the platform going forward, OG XB backwards compatibility being the one true moment of excitement. It's gotta hurt that, I think he's truly fucked off with the whole thing and feels a bit like his parade has been pissed on somewhat. Leading up to E3 and thinking you'd ticked all the boxes, set the master plan in place, only to be met with something of a muted response sprinkled with a dose of backlash... poor guy. So coming out swinging and rallying the troops, yep, totally get it. But the way it's done, with actions that do little to further his image as Good Guy Phil, while as I say can be seen as understandable and might feel good as a tension release to blurt out, unfortunately ain't doing much for the greater cause in the eyes of those whose veins don't run green.
Speaking of which...
Disagreeing with actions and not buying into an offered view of the state of play is not concern trolling. Paranoid-looking blanket statements do little to further the conversation.
Both involve blocking content on other platforms, big difference is one usually just involves mostly forgettable content you can go without the other is a full game.
Both suck for the most part, unless it's caused by a small team having to prioritize 1 platform over another, which is understandable.
Regardless Xbox under Phil has done both (people have already pointed out The Division was first shown with DS4's pointing to no MS marketing deal at that point) and he's just being a hypocrite trying to come across as some good guy who is above it.
Games are "content" also you know. In practice it may be difference in principal it isn't and still has the negatives he mentions in the OP. Trying to dismiss one aspect whilst practicing the other may not be hypocritical but it also isn't truly representative of things.
sturgboski
Member
As someone posted earlier: fine don't buy the game until the DLC comes to Xbox. There now you have your times exclusive game which you seem to think is a ok.
GHG
Gold Member
Let me be clear about one thing. Some of us who you might deem to be "concerned" might genuinely be concerned and have a right to be.
If I see Phil Spencer say some bullshit, I can say it's bullshit.
If I see that Microsoft are not doing enough in terms of 1st party I can say so.
If I see them marketing things in a misleading way they will get called out on it.
If I feel the UI is lacking based on my tastes and what I deem to be user friendly or not, I can say so.
I bought the console partly for Forza and partly under good faith that there would be other good stuff coming. I'm also giving them money on a monthly basis for Xbox Live, a service I barely ever use. They have largely delivered as far as Forza is concerned, but they can still do better in certain areas there and I will say so in the relevant Forza threads. But everything else? Everything has been a joke to be honest with you.
As somebody who is currently invested in the platform and as somebody who largely had a great time with the Xbox 360 (and hence knows what "good" looks like from Microsoft) I have a right to make my voice heard and to voice my opinion on things concerning the platform. I'd be lying if I said I was sorry that it hurt your or anybody else's feelings on this board. Microsoft watch this board, like they watch many others, they will only make necessary and relevant changes if we are giving honest feedback. They are not your friends, we are their customers.
Zok310
Banned
MS need to get rid of this guy, he has no competitive spirit which he is clearly admitting to.
How else are you going to differentiate your console from Nin and Sony if you don't compete for exclusive content or exclusive games in general?
He is obviously saying shit like this to get some sympathy from gamers, shit is pathetic really.
How else are you going to differentiate your console from Nin and Sony if you don't compete for exclusive content or exclusive games in general?
He is obviously saying shit like this to get some sympathy from gamers, shit is pathetic really.
TBiddy
Member
You have every right to be mad, concerned or whatever else you want to be. I wasn't referring to you in my post (I've only noticed you in the next-gen face-off thread - or was it another thread featuring Forza?, where you're a good contributor) though, but some of the more blatant trolling in this thread. It's fairly obvious who is actually interested in getting some proper feedback out there and who is more interested in gloating, mocking and generally being an ass.
I doubt you or anyone else are hurting many feelings, but I can't speak for everyone, of course. Raising concerns should be something we all encourage, as long as it's constructive and civil. This thread is neither, by now, and that's what I'm saddened by. As the TOS says, it's about holding civil, evidence-based discussions.
longdi
Banned
Being locked out from using a pistol or a skin vs being forced to pay $299 for another box taking up space and ports...smh
ShadowKingpin
Member
That's cute. Call of Duty & Tomb Raider say 'hello'.
I was talking about timed exclusivity, which had several examples at the conference. In that case, waiting and then purchasing the product on your existing box is an option.
Edit: I don't support publishers paying for exclusivity unless they themselves are funding development to make the project happen at all. Timed exclusive games, DLC, etc. is stupid. I get why people are upset. But attacking Phil because he said what he said doesn't make sense. Exclusive DLC deals make customers feel like they get a worse deal when buying on certain platforms (I get less content for the same money), whereas timed exclusive games offer the same experience when purchasing a product, just at different times (I get the same amount of content for the same money). Maybe I'm not communicating this properly, but that's how I see it.
GusZamboni
Member
well, in his defense, he could just got in with the deal already done
kofvscapcom
Neo Member
I kinda respect the hustle, it takes a big brave man to lie this hard.
Seriously though, the Destiny 1 strikes were a shitty situation for anyone playing it on Xbox and the Division thing basically made me stop playing that game. But this is going to keep happening until they have an incentive to stop, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Seriously though, the Destiny 1 strikes were a shitty situation for anyone playing it on Xbox and the Division thing basically made me stop playing that game. But this is going to keep happening until they have an incentive to stop, and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Most marketing exclusive content is timed too, just wait and download them for probably free when they release on the other platforms.
Salty Rice
Member
The Phil defence force trying to differentiate between tomb raider and the console launch exclusive fest we got this E3 is hilarious.
Melchiah
Member
Yeah, it's not the same. Timed exclusive games are worse.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked