Support NeoGAF

[JustP_Gaming]

I mean, I love Phil something fierce, but he keeps overhyping this year's E3 as the second coming for MS.....Hell, even I am stoked......Yet surely, Phil must know that if he doesn't deliver at E3, there will be an even bigger backlash......This better not be another X018 extravaganza….....

Dont compare it to X18 compare it to e3 2018 which that hit out the park. They delivered with e3 2018 no reason to believe they won't deliver for e3 2019

 

[zenspider]

The "no hardware needed" part from Google will end up being a big problem for them. I'm surprised so many on GAF don't understand this. Having tangible hardware will be a PLUS for the likes of MS, Sony, and Nintendo.

Personally, I feel the opposite. I have a PS4, strong PC, some HMDs, tons of retro machines, yet and Switch is my main platform because, all things being equal, it the least cumbersome and most flexible.

I truly believe the next 'gen' is about flexibility, commitment (or lack thereof), ease of use, and company's ability to game our attention. Something like YouTube stream integration is way more poweful than a Teraflop going forward.

Personally, I agree that having a dedicated piece of hardware is an advantage, but it's not a strictly dominant one. Being (somewhat) hardware free is a huge advantage for Stradia. Toss that controller in a bag and pick a screen to play. That's kinda nuts.

 

[Vasto]

Looking foward to it Phil,

We will have Anaconda a dedicated power house game console, Game Pass and Project X Cloud streaming.

Bring on E3!

 

[iamvin22]

lol did you become the world's first Stadia fanboy overnight? I've never seen anyone so convinced of something being the ultimate future after a reveal with so little concrete information.

You keep making these threads about how every other company in gaming is dead because Google is putting out their own game streaming service, but we don't actually know anything about it yet. At least let it come out and find out if it even works properly before all these insane threads.

I really believe he's a Google employee or yea the world's first stadia fanboy

 

[Stuart360]

Personally, I feel the opposite. I have a PS4, strong PC, some HMDs, tons of retro machines, yet and Switch is my main platform because, all things being equal, it the least cumbersome and most flexible.

I truly believe the next 'gen' is about flexibility, commitment (or lack thereof), ease of use, and company's ability to game our attention. Something like YouTube stream integration is way more poweful than a Teraflop going forward.

Personally, I agree that having a dedicated piece of hardware is an advantage, but it's not a strictly dominant one. Being (somewhat) hardware free is a huge advantage for Stradia. Toss that controller in a bag and pick a screen to play. That's kinda nuts.

Everyone is different though. I play ONLY on my 50inch tv. Thats gaming to me, sat on the sofa, drink in one hand, controller in the other, huge TV for dat experience. A box under the TV will always be my no.1 want from gaming.

 

[Meowzers]

It's cheaper than going out and buying a PS5, so I'll give it a try, but it can never match the excitement of opening up a brand new console and setting it all up.

Stadia is something I'd give a go on day 1, but it surely can never beat real hardware.

 

[Jigsaah]

I mean, I love Phil something fierce, but he keeps overhyping this year's E3 as the second coming for MS.....Hell, even I am stoked......Yet surely, Phil must know that if he doesn't deliver at E3, there will be an even bigger backlash......This better not be another X018 extravaganza….....

I stopped reading at "I love Phil something fierce". This amount of sarcasm is known to cause cancer.

 

[Starfield]

Streaming videogames without input lag is impossible. It will never replace hardware.

 

[Jigsaah]

I'm interested in seeing what Sony will do in terms of scope. I think we all know they'll continue PSNow...however it's not just about scope in terms of how far reaching. Google's announcement now bring custom features into the fray. Like Phil said, the youtube integration is impressive and is the biggest selling point for me right now. Currently I believe Sony does allow you to upload your clips directly to Youtube. I've never used the feature myself because I have a PC...but I'd like to see how Sony and Google distinguishes this feature next gen.

As far as Phil's response. I think we just gotta wait and see. I don't think he's bluffing necessarily . It would be difficult to imagine him asking the developers what they wanted and getting different answers than Google did. How they delivered on those requests is left to be seen.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

If Phil wants to go big they have to not only show a real working demo of XCloud but REALLY show it.

Not some shitty camera angle over the shoulder of some person who looked like they were shitty at the game to begin with.

Plus you have to actually reveal your consoles and give us dates of release.

That would be going big.

 

[Stuart360]

The only time i will be remotely interested in streaming is when the image quality looks as good as if you were playing on loacal hardware. That DF video with the Ass Creed Odyssey comparison between the streaming version and the X version, was huge, and that was on a badly compressed Youtube vid, whats it going to look like in person!.

 

[McHuj]

I think he's right that it will come down to execution. If MS can deliver a streaming service and a home console that will cover both basis.

I really think they need to position the next box as the premium place to play but offer a low cost entry to everyone who doesn't want that.

 

[Jigsaah]

I think he's right that it will come down to execution. If MS can deliver a streaming service and a home console that will cover both basis.

I really think they need to position the next box as the premium place to play but offer a low cost entry to everyone who doesn't want that.

Good point. I think it's important to remember Microsoft's offering includes a box as well, this may mitigate some of the worries i think we all have about the quality of the stream in general. I still want to see the features. They have mixer...but they got nothing to compete with Youtube.

 

[mckmas8808]

Personally, I feel the opposite. I have a PS4, strong PC, some HMDs, tons of retro machines, yet and Switch is my main platform because, all things being equal, it the least cumbersome and most flexible.

I truly believe the next 'gen' is about flexibility, commitment (or lack thereof), ease of use, and company's ability to game our attention. Something like YouTube stream integration is way more poweful than a Teraflop going forward.

Personally, I agree that having a dedicated piece of hardware is an advantage, but it's not a strictly dominant one. Being (somewhat) hardware free is a huge advantage for Stradia. Toss that controller in a bag and pick a screen to play. That's kinda nuts.

But this usage is relatively niche compared to the overall gaming world. There's nothing stopping MS and Sony from allowing us to play our current games through streaming means next gen also. (Sony has an option for PC and laptops, but they don't allow you to stream your "current" bought games on the go).

 

[zenspider]

Everyone is different though. I play ONLY on my 50inch tv. Thats gaming to me, sat on the sofa, drink in one hand, controller in the other, huge TV for dat experience. A box under the TV will always be my no.1 want from gaming.

For sure! That's where I'm coming from. We have these kind of biases as hobbyists, but then we're blinsided by these big trends (e.g., Wii Sports, mobile gaming, GaaS, etc.) because they're not for us.

There's alot of smart people here, but sometimes we have these blindspots.

 

[Hendrick's]

Is Phil's bluffing? Will Google call it out?

Phil got a little cocky it seems, saying no real surprises were at the event. While im interested in what Microsoft will show at E3, there's no way they have the massive 7500 200 country fiber infrastructure of Google.

They may have a surprise in store but Microsofts solution is based on hardware like Sony. Google can stream You a game running on 4 server GPUs and even mentioned 8k in the Keynote. No hardware needed.

It's looking pretty rough, Sony and Nintebdo will have many issues. Microsoft might hold on a bit longer but they won't be able to counter Google by themselves. A partnership with Amazon is the only way to have a competitive alternative im afraid.

Were there any?

 

[ResilientBanana]

They should roll xCloud into Xbox Live and just leave it at that. I want streaming to be secondary, I would never pay for it up front. But playing games wherever I'm at would be cool.

 

[zenspider]

But this usage is relatively niche compared to the overall gaming world. There's nothing stopping MS and Sony from allowing us to play our current games through streaming means next gen also. (Sony has an option for PC and laptops, but they don't allow you to stream your "current" bought games on the go).

Playing Switch is niche?

I agree there's nothing stopping MS and Sony from streaming - I wasn't making a case against streaming but for the value of the least cumbersome route.

I'm confused about you saying you can't stream current titles now with Playstation. That's how I played a ton of Persona 5.

 

[Burrito Bandito]

The "no hardware needed" part from Google will end up being a big problem for them. I'm surprised so many on GAF don't understand this. Having tangible hardware will be a PLUS for the likes of MS, Sony, and Nintendo.

how is no hardware a problem for them? thats their main asset. Sure, us more hardcore gamers would prefer hardware over streaming but we are a small minority in the grand scheme. Streaming is 100% the future so its either adapt or be left behind.

Streaming isnt there yet to be able to match hardware fidelity but honestly, what google showed isnt THAT far off. It will only be a single console “generation” away from eliminating enough latency and compression to be negligible for even a die-hard. Especially with rapidly growing broadband speeds and 5g around the corner.

The console manufacturers best best is to atleast offer the console as a subscription/termed payment deal like phones. When it comes down to it people will see Stadia doing 4k60fps with AAA games at a low monthly fee (probably $9.99 or $14.99 like netflix) vs. the same thing with an upfront cost of $499. But if both options were the same in cost and the console offered more fidelity and capabities for slow-broadband people then it can compete.

 

[mckmas8808]

Playing Switch is niche?

I agree there's nothing stopping MS and Sony from streaming - I wasn't making a case against streaming but for the value of the least cumbersome route.

I'm confused about you saying you can't stream current titles now with Playstation. That's how I played a ton of Persona 5.

No the Switch isn't niche at all. It's awesome, because there's no need for any internet connection to play your games on the go. It's literally the best current option to playing videogames while on the go.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Everyone is different though. I play ONLY on my 50inch tv. Thats gaming to me, sat on the sofa, drink in one hand, controller in the other, huge TV for dat experience. A box under the TV will always be my no.1 want from gaming.

This is me as well. I have the 3 current consoles under my TV, and I will never game on a PC or through streaming. If this ever goes away, I’ll be a retro gamer for the rest of my days.

 

[mckmas8808]

how is no hardware a problem for them? thats their main asset. Sure, us more hardcore gamers would prefer hardware over streaming but we are a small minority in the grand scheme. Streaming is 100% the future so its either adapt or be left behind.

Streaming isnt there yet to be able to match hardware fidelity but honestly, what google showed isnt THAT far off. It will only be a single console “generation” away from eliminating enough latency and compression to be negligible for even a die-hard. Especially with rapidly growing broadband speeds and 5g around the corner.

The console manufacturers best best is to atleast offer the console as a subscription/termed payment deal like phones. When it comes down to it people will see Stadia doing 4k60fps with AAA games at a low monthly fee (probably $9.99 or $14.99 like netflix) vs. the same thing with an upfront cost of $499. But if both options were the same in cost and the console offered more fidelity and capabities for slow-broadband people then it can compete.

This just isn't going to be possible though. Why would 3rd parties want Google to have people stream their games and "NOT" require people to buy the game directly? Unless you're saying Google will be moneyhatting these companies to allow NBA 2K, Red Dead Redemption 2, CyberPunk 2077, etc to be all playable for one low price.

How can Google afford something like that?

 

[Stuart360]

This just isn't going to be possible though. Why would 3rd parties want Google to have people stream their games and "NOT" require people to buy the game directly? Unless you're saying Google will be moneyhatting these companies to allow NBA 2K, Red Dead Redemption 2, CyberPunk 2077, etc to be all playable for one low price.

How can Google afford something like that?

Yeah i agree. I mean i can see studios wanting retail games, and having their games on streaming services, but streaming only?. I cant see how it would be viable with games often having $100+mil budgets. The likes of Google would have to pay studios ridiculous numbers to get their games. Thats what Microsoft and Sony are doing it the smart way, physical consoels, physical games, digital games, and streaming service for the people that want that.

 

[zenspider]

No the Switch isn't niche at all. It's awesome, because there's no need for any internet connection to play your games on the go. It's literally the best current option to playing videogames while on the go.

I think I'm losing the story here.

We might agree here in principle. If we take what makes Switch so awesome and decouple that from dedicated hardware being necessary for that experience, we're left with the appeal of the use case that is less cumbersome (and less robust) than even Switch. At the very least, it's a very different propsition than what we're used to disscusing (performance, sunken cost platform dependence, etc.)

I don't think Stadia is necessarily going to be there on Day 1, or ever, but that's the core of my argument for the appeal of a (somewhat) hardware free platform.

 

[Burrito Bandito]

This just isn't going to be possible though. Why would 3rd parties want Google to have people stream their games and "NOT" require people to buy the game directly? Unless you're saying Google will be moneyhatting these companies to allow NBA 2K, Red Dead Redemption 2, CyberPunk 2077, etc to be all playable for one low price.

How can Google afford something like that?

im not sure where you are getting that from. I didnt say anything in regards to the games themselves. Of course you would still buy the games themselves. What I am saying is that the choice will be between a $499 console+games vs a Stadia $9.99 a month subscription+games. The second option is far more attractive to the vast majority of people.


edit: noticing the bold in your quote i see the confusion. I didnt mean that the Stadia subscription include games, ala Netflix with movies. The subscription is to use the Stadia service. games would be seperate

 

[Stuart360]

im not sure where you are getting that from. I didnt say anything in regards to the games themselves. Of course you would still buy the games themselves. What I am saying is that the choice will be between a $499 console+games vs a Stadia $9.99 a month subscription+games. The second option is far more attractive to the vast majority of people.


edit: noticing the bold in your quote i see the confusion. I didnt mean that the Stadia subscription include games, ala Netflix with movies. The subscription is to use the Stadia service. games would be seperate

How do you know?, have you asked everyone?. If this forum is anything to go buy, its the complete opposite to that.

 

[Burrito Bandito]

How do you know?, have you asked everyone?. If this forum is anything to go buy, its the complete opposite to that.

this forum is nothing to go by. The nature of being a video game dedicated forum means the people here are hardcore gamers comparatively.

I base my assumption in societal trends. We know for a fact most people prefer to pay monthly for something rather than full price upfront even if they pay more in the end. this is abundently clear with cell phones, credit cards, ect.

If the same product is offered at $499 upfront and then also at $9.99 per month, most people will choose $9.99.

For the upcoming gen, atleast, a console will still have enough of a performance edge to push people toward the upfront cost. But when the cloud service develope to the point where input lag and compression are negligible then theres no reason to buy hardware

 

[Jigsaah]

How do you know?, have you asked everyone?. If this forum is anything to go buy, its the complete opposite to that.

I think maybe he's referring to the casual market. At this point, majority of the casual market doesn't even know this is coming. To say they prefer this over consoles is questionable because I'd argue the casual market is gaas oriented. They play on their phone or tablet using the playstore or apple store. living in microtransaction hell and often times happy to pay for their veiled torture born of ignorance and shame.

 

[Stuart360]

this forum is nothing to go by. The nature of being a video game dedicated forum means the people here are hardcore gamers comparatively.

I base my assumption in societal trends. We know for a fact most people prefer to pay monthly for something rather than full price upfront even if they pay more in the end. this is abundently clear with cell phones, credit cards, ect.

If the same product is offered at $499 upfront and then also at $9.99 per month, most people will choose $9.99.

For the upcoming gen, atleast, a console will still have enough of a performance edge to push people toward the upfront cost. But when the cloud service develope to the point where input lag and compression are negligible then theres no reason to buy hardware

How many of the casual masses have high speed UNCAPPED internet, which is what you will need for streaming. I dont know the answer myself but i bet its waaay lower than 50%, probably lower than 30% i bet. Thats the no.1 reason why streaming will only ever be an option, an option for the people that want it, or the people who have the internet for it, for the forseeable future.

 

[Jigsaah]

How many of the casual masses have high speed UNCAPPED internet, which is what you will need for streaming. I dont know the answer myself but i bet its waaay lower than 50%, probably lower than 30% i bet. Thats the no.1 reason why streaming will only ever be an option, an option for the people that want it, or the people who have the internet for it, for the forseeable future.

What about 5g? I don't know the specs, but could this resolve internet problems for those who'd want to stream exclusively? I know it's rolling out in cities slowly, but when fully establish, could 5g and subsequently increased data caps solve that problem?

 

[Shin]

The best part of this is how Phil addresses his colleagues, modesty, humble.
If it wasn't all staged or whatever then major props to him, it's that attitude/mentality that will make great strides for them moving forward.

 

[mckmas8808]

What about 5g? I don't know the specs, but could this resolve internet problems for those who'd want to stream exclusively? I know it's rolling out in cities slowly, but when fully establish, could 5g and subsequently increased data caps solve that problem?

No way 5G will be (truly) mainstream until the year 2025.

 

[Barakov]

Xbox One 2 reveal... believe.

Eff that. Call this thing the Xbox 720 and be done with it.

 

[thief183]

I can't understand how can we gamers go towards something like google, we should be the first ones stopping it from becoming relevant in the gaming industry.

Gamers most of the time are ppl that are well into the internet mechanism and are the ones that probably knows how bad will be for us if we let the "monopolyizing" Google in our time.

If I'd have to choose I'll go all the way to microsoft, or sony, no way I'm going to give Google even more control of my life.

 

[Kagero]

This is bad for MS. Google is making them lean hard in to cloud. My personal thought is it's too early. MS needs to lean heavy in to creating strong IP's like Sony.

 

[Baron Samedi]

The end of gaming has begun.

Just as the music industry and the film industry ended? come on man, have a little vision.

 

[Calibos]

This memo was leaked by the Thurrot which was sent by Phil to various Microsoft employees.





Is Phil's bluffing? Will Google call it out?

Phil got a little cocky it seems, saying no real surprises were at the event. While im interested in what Microsoft will show at E3, there's no way they have the massive 7500 200 country fiber infrastructure of Google.

They may have a surprise in store but Microsofts solution is based on hardware like Sony. Google can stream You a game running on 4 server GPUs and even mentioned 8k in the Keynote. No hardware needed.

It's looking pretty rough, Sony and Nintebdo will have many issues. Microsoft might hold on a bit longer but they won't be able to counter Google by themselves. A partnership with Amazon is the only way to have a competitive alternative im afraid.

I am convinced you are a bot troll at this point.


You really should do some research on MS, Xcloud and Azure my friend.

Also, Google says 4K 60fps and even 8K! And yet there floor demos and hands ons are all at 1080p 30fps...with lag, compression and latency issues. Look at DF's analysis for more.

 

[Von Hugh]

Streaming videogames without input lag is impossible. It will never replace hardware.

But you have input lag with traditional setup as well.

 

[Jigsaah]

But you have input lag with traditional setup as well.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Maybe.

You are probably right, it may have begun but I think it won't fully arrive for a long time. Next gen is definitely safe. Too many people have crap internet, too many people have data caps. Too many people still prefer physical media and powerful machines.

Streaming might become the new standard but not for a long time.

That’s how I feel as well. The market just isn’t ready for it yet imho. Streaming movies and video games are pretty different from each other where one you watch and the other generally relies on constant interaction.

 

[nikolino840]

If Phil wants to go big they have to not only show a real working demo of XCloud but REALLY show it.

Not some shitty camera angle over the shoulder of some person who looked like they were shitty at the game to begin with.

Plus you have to actually reveal your consoles and give us dates of release.

That would be going big.

Well... public beta start this year.. and tomorrow on gdc there Is the panel of ms xcloud

 

[kraspkibble]

Even though Stadia looks far from perfected it does definitely look like a glimpse into the near future of gaming.
Google and MS are both right in jumping on this early and I think Sony will do the same.

You do know Sony already has a streaming service you can use today, right?

 

[yurqqa]

I mean imagine if someone released a blu ray that only used 10% of the disc, because they used the stream version as the master. I mean, it's both 1080p right?

In the beginning of 2000s we had a lot of pirated DVDs with 4 or 6 or even 6 movies on 1 disk. They were selling like hot cakes. So it works. People don‘t care.

I remember playing Morrowind at 10-15 FPS back in the day and after some time it was „ok“. So for many people it‘ll be a way to go.

I‘m not even talking about the kids who can‘t buy a console, but maybe could pay for streaming service. They are sitting and watching gameplay videos on YouTube and they‘ll be the first who will press „Play it now“ button.

 

[Alebrije]

With Google stream service gaming will become more about exclusive IPs more than ever. Nintendo its safe with thier stron IPs , they can keep releasing consoles for many years also it does not hurt to them being on 2 or 3 place in industry sales. Sony has developed strong IPs those years that could keep console sales for years. Microsoft its the more vulnerable of the 3 vs. Google since they lack of IPs , Halo and Gears are done, and mostf they new IPs this generation have failed.

So Phill memo just shows this , pretty sure People on Nintendo and Sony are just being conservative cautious about Google but Phill feels like ...."Winter is coming" moment.... so embrace your self Microsoft....

 

[Breakage]

Growing up in the PlayStation generation, it's weird seeing Harrison at the front of this (I know he also had a stint with Microsoft).

 

[DanielsM]

Growing up in the PlayStation generation, it's weird seeing Harrison at the front of this (I know he also had a stint with Microsoft).

He's a Nintendo insider sent to other companies to destroy their Nintendo competition before they even launch. Wait and see, catastrophes come in threes . (I'm not sure, if I'm joking, I think so, but not sure)

 

[Croatoan]

Ok, ill play. Check the bolded.

This memo was leaked by the Thurrot which was sent by Phil to various Microsoft employees.





Is Phil's bluffing? Will Google call it out?
Why does Phil need to bluff? They have a new hardware system coming out that doesn't have horrible input lag.... Imagine playing an fps with 100ms+ input lag, LOL.

Phil got a little cocky it seems, saying no real surprises were at the event. While im interested in what Microsoft will show at E3, there's no way they have the massive 7500 200 country fiber infrastructure of Google.
Stadia is PS Now or Onlive with a even more vague business model. There are no real surprises because this crap has been done before.

I don't give a shit what "infrastructure" google has. That "Infrastructure" does not reach every house in every city. Even if it did it would take everyone having quantum entanglement level internet speeds to make streaming anything but a niche option due to input latency. I have tried streaming locally in my house using various means and it fucking sucks. I got pixelation, latency, and the whole nine yards. Can't even imagine how bad it will be over the internet (unless you live right next the data center of coarse).

They may have a surprise in store but Microsofts solution is based on hardware like Sony. Google can stream You a game running on 4 server GPUs and even mentioned 8k in the Keynote. No hardware needed.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you say hardware like it is a bad thing? Call me when Google figures out Quantum Entanglement to get rid of the very real physics problems that currently keep streaming games from being viable. I'll take my PC with its single GPU, or a PS5, over anything google duct tapes together to get suckers buy into their walled garden.

It's looking pretty rough, Sony and Nintebdo will have many issues. Microsoft might hold on a bit longer but they won't be able to counter Google by themselves. A partnership with Amazon is the only way to have a competitive alternative im afraid.
With a line like this you either are Nostradamus or have seen the future. I am thinking you are more of a Nostradumass though. Oh, but your troll threads are highly entertaining!

Sony and Nintebdo will be fine and so will Microsoft.

 

[Maxwell House]

They may have a surprise in store but Microsofts solution is based on hardware like Sony. Google can stream You a game running on 4 server GPUs and even mentioned 8k in the Keynote. No hardware needed.

It's looking pretty rough, Sony and Nintebdo will have many issues. Microsoft might hold on a bit longer but they won't be able to counter Google by themselves. A partnership with Amazon is the only way to have a competitive alternative im afraid.

Microsoft has just as much capability to stream as Google does, with their Azure system. That is what XCloud is. Not sure why you have this notion that Microsoft's solution is only hardware based. Simply not true.

 

[Insane Metal]

Nobody is afraid of Stadia. Until actual hands-on and feedback from the consumers. Plain and simple.

 

[CyberPanda]

Things are getting heated.