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Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

J

J-Rzez

Member
GANGSTERKILLER said:
Input lag test on the new G6 LG OLED will be done by no other than David Mackenzie. He's my favorite reviewer from my favorite TV review site. http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk No doubt he will try every option to get the lowest possible input lag.

If only LG can cut the lag into the 20ms range, but honestly? I don't think they can pull this off.
Click to expand...

20ms is going to be wishful thinking I believe. That low of input lag with OLEDs crazy response time would be something else.

I'm just happy they addressed the judder, that was the most annoying thing to me about my EF9500. I can live with the lag
 
M

MrJames

Member
GANGSTERKILLER said:
Input lag test on the new G6 LG OLED will be done by no other than David Mackenzie. He's my favorite reviewer from my favorite TV review site. http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk No doubt he will try every option to get the lowest possible input lag.

If only LG can cut the lag into the 20ms range, but honestly? I don't think they can pull this off.
Click to expand...

He just posted some pretty positive impressions of the G6 and stated that input lag was less than last year but didn't give a number. Hopefully he follows up since someone already asked.
 
G

GANGSTERKILLER

Member
Yes, David sounds really positive about the G6 LG OLED. Unfortunately he didn't give an exact number on the input lag.

Maybe we'll have to wait for his full review to find out.

Here are some of his impressions.

Hey everyone
It's honestly flattering to see how many people are waiting to hear my impressions of this. I've spent the day at VE checking it out.

I hope to be able to do a proper thorough review later, but I can summarize and say that the LG Signature OLED that's in the store is absolutely stunning. The uniformity problem is almost gone, the menus are snappier, so as a result it should be much less annoying to calibrate, and the input lag is less than last year. It's not perfect, but the problems, from what I've seen on this visit, are no longer at any significant level. The color accuracy (x+y vs luminance) is also excellent, which wasn't the case in previous generations. unless something bad happens, this'll be the year I buy one.
Click to expand...

More at this link. Look for post #1631. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2277258-2016-lg-oleds-g6-e6-c6-b6-55.html
 
Jigolo

Jigolo

Member
David said it's (G6) better than last years model but not as good as 2015 Samsung TVs

I'll average the top 3 Samsung TVs from rtings # (7500, 9000, 9500) and both 4k OLEDs (EG/EF)

22.6>G6>51.8

He doesn't want to publish a number until his review which I'm perfectly okay with. He deserves all the clicks he'll get for the retail model G6 review. Since the one he was just messing around with was a VE store showcase
 
D

Dewoh

Neo Member
Jigolo said:
David said it's (G6) better than last years model but not as good as 2015 Samsung TVs

I'll average the top 3 Samsung TVs from rtings # (7500, 9000, 9500) and both 4k OLEDs (EG/EF)

22.6>G6>51.8

He doesn't want to publish a number until his review which I'm perfectly okay with. He deserves all the clicks he'll get for the retail model G6 review. Since the one he was just messing around with was a VE store showcase
Click to expand...

Get it in the 30s and I think I'll be ok with it.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
About the sony kdl 60"
How does it handle 720p games? Does it not stretch itnproperly or do i need to alter a setting?
 
F

FrankNitty

Member
Tatsumi Oga said:
A grayscale ramp is what you have in these calibration tests? Xbox One has a tool for that where you can set the brightness, contrast etc...correctly. Is that what you're talking about?
Click to expand...

Yeah but you want a full screen one. Make sure your contrast and brightness are set correctly and then check a pluge pattern to back sure you don't have color tint in the white bars, then check a grayscale ramp and see if it transitions correctly, as well as doesn't have color tint. If you have color tint or you can see significant steps on the lower end it means your grayscale is off.
 
H

hooijdonk17

Member
Nobody makes Plasmas anymore, do they? I'm considering replacing my LG Plasma 55" for something larger (mostly because I'm not thrilled with its latency even in game mode than anything) but I can't find anything that gives me the feel of a Plasma on the market. Everything looks too bright, too sharp. What is the best choice on the market for an old Plasma lover?
 
M

MrJames

Member
33.7ms is decent. Coming from 50-53ms on the 2015 models, I'll take it. David measured the Sony X940C at around 36-37ms last year during the VE Shootout.
 
Y

Yaari

Member
MrJames said:
33.7ms is decent. Coming from 50-53ms on the 2015 models, I'll take it. David measured the Sony X940C at around 36-37ms last year during the VE Shootout.
Click to expand...

I've never been able to find out what my G10 Panasonic from 2009 has. Did they not test it (input lag) the way they do now or something?
 
Jigolo

Jigolo

Member
MrJames said:
33.7ms is decent. Coming from 50-53ms on the 2015 models, I'll take it. David measured the Sony X940C at around 36-37ms last year during the VE Shootout.
Click to expand...

I little over 2 frames and that's basically my minimum standard for input lag. Over the last few years. But then again I've never had 0.1 response times and almost no motion blur on a TV. I wonder how that would feel on this TV and possibly make it feel any different while gaming.

So that does it for me. If it wasn't for the price, I would be a G6 owner as soon as possible. Price is the only thing remaining.
 
Dr. Zoidberg

Dr. Zoidberg

Member
it's 33.7 ms in the "Game" mode.
Click to expand...

If true, that's far better than I expected it to be and it's an amount I could live with. It's already better than ALL of Sony's 2015 TVs. If there are no other "gotchas" with this set (and there always seem to be some), I'll wait for the prices to lower and pick one up. I don't mind splurging if this is the set that will finally check all the needed boxes for me.
 
Y

Yaari

Member
Jigolo said:
I little over 2 frames and that's basically my minimum standard for input lag. Over the last few years. But then again I've never had 0.1 response times and almost no motion blur on a TV. I wonder how that would feel on this TV and possibly make it feel any different while gaming.

So that does it for me. If it wasn't for the price, I would be a G6 owner as soon as possible. Price is the only thing remaining.
Click to expand...

What about the other models though? I'm not a fan of the G6 for the sound bar. I heard a lot of good things about the 3D on these OLEDs though. But even then, I like the B6 one too. I might just have to let the 3D slip.

The input lag should be the same on the other ones too, right?
 
Dr. Zoidberg

Dr. Zoidberg

Member
Yaari said:
The input lag should be the same on the other ones too, right?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Using last year's OLED sets as an example, the input lag varied as much as 10ms between models. If this year is the same, the B6 could be as high as 43.7ms which is not horrible but more than I would want.
 
Jigolo

Jigolo

Member
Yaari said:
What about the other models though? I'm not a fan of the G6 for the sound bar. I heard a lot of good things about the 3D on these OLEDs though. But even then, I like the B6 one too. I might just have to let the 3D slip.

The input lag should be the same on the other ones too, right?
Click to expand...

Nope there is pretty much no guarantee for them to be the same. Not only that but like the Gaffer posted above input lag could vary big time from TV models year to year. Sony once had best in class input lag but their recent TVs are in the mid 30s.

Today it's 33.7 but next year it could be 44.2.
 
Y

Yaari

Member
Awh. Well, will wait to see what happens with the other models then. The G6 is out of my budget too. Hopefully one of the other TV's will match the input lag somewhat.
 
J

J-Rzez

Member
Jigolo said:
I little over 2 frames and that's basically my minimum standard for input lag. Over the last few years. But then again I've never had 0.1 response times and almost no motion blur on a TV. I wonder how that would feel on this TV and possibly make it feel any different while gaming.

So that does it for me. If it wasn't for the price, I would be a G6 owner as soon as possible. Price is the only thing remaining.
Click to expand...

Yeah, these OLED response times are pretty strange to experience while gaming on a big old screen. It's perhaps one reason I didn't find the EF9500 "too bad" overall despite it's input lag. That input lag is noticeable to me for sure, but it didn't break the experience for me, but then again I don't do competitive gaming on console anymore. If it were my PC I'd have an issue. So that said, low 30's with that response time overall may be enough for some of the more demanding.

I won't bother going from my EF9500 to a G6 of the same size, but if the 77" isn't ridiculously priced, I may consider selling my old set for the new one.
 
F

FrankNitty

Member
J-Rzez said:
Yeah, these OLED response times are pretty strange to experience while gaming on a big old screen. It's perhaps one reason I didn't find the EF9500 "too bad" overall despite it's input lag. That input lag is noticeable to me for sure, but it didn't break the experience for me, but then again I don't do competitive gaming on console anymore. If it were my PC I'd have an issue. So that said, low 30's with that response time overall may be enough for some of the more demanding.

I won't bother going from my EF9500 to a G6 of the same size, but if the 77" isn't ridiculously priced, I may consider selling my old set for the new one.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat as you. Not going to go from EF9500 to a G6 at t hat price point. I am looking to see what the street price of the E and C cost before I decide. If it makes sense I'll sell my ZT60 and get one, but only if the improvements are substantial. If they are slight vs the EF its not worth it imho. No doubt the G6 is already better than the EF but the question is just how much better in all aspects.

What's funny is I'm getting same same vibe I got with the jump from the VT30 to the VT50. Like the 50 was better and fixed some of the 30 issues but not substantial enough to warrant the upgrade from 30 to 50. Unlike the substantial difference from the 30 to 60. Not sure why but getting that same feeling about the EF to G like I did back then. Definitely going to wait and see how things shake out.
 
G

GANGSTERKILLER

Member
33.7ms for the G6. That's perfectly playable guys. This is really surprising coming from LG.

No wonder David Mackenzie is so positive about this TV, this guy is also an avid gamer.

The first OLED suitable for gaming is finally here i guess...

Who is gonna buy that G6 OLED here? ;-) It will be expensive as hell. No doubt about that.
 
J

JustCheezze

Banned
Believe it or not, majority of gamers overestimate the input lag that they can perceive. If no one told anyone, majority won't notice high input lag unless it's really like insanely high that it's obnoxious.

33.7ms is good enough.
 
M

MrJames

Member
The internals are identical for all the 2016 OLEDs so I'll likely be getting the 65" E6. Last I read it should be out around April.
 
F

FrankNitty

Member
MrJames said:
The internals are identical for all the 2016 OLEDs so I'll likely be getting the 65" E6. Last I read it should be out around April.
Click to expand...

Yeah I would be looking at the E or C. The G doesn't make sense for me because I already have an avr and 7.2.2 the sound bar would be wasted on me. I honestly think it will be wasted on most because if you're buying a 7-8k dollar tv you probably have a set up for sound. Either a nice avr or a pre pro
 
Dr. Zoidberg

Dr. Zoidberg

Member
FrankNitty said:
Yeah I would be looking at the E or C. The G doesn't make sense for me
Click to expand...

Is there a link to a site that lays out the LG 2016 OLED models in a grid or something so I can easily see the differences between them? I've tried searching a bit and just keep hitting articles with generalized text from CES.
 
B

Buburibon

Member
33.7ms? That's a little lower than what my x940c can do, and I find it to be pretty good with a controller. Now, Panasonic just needs to deliver something comparable in terms of input lag, and I'll surely be all over it. :)
 
T

tmdorsey

Member
MrJames said:
I agree with on the premium cert regarding edge-lits. A taste of HDR is probably all you will get with an edge-lit LCD. They can't do true local dimming like FALD models can so I'm a little suspect when when we hear announcements of edge-lit models that can hit 1,000 nits. OLEDs would be best since each pixel has its own light control followed by FALD LCDs with a decent zone count.

If I don't get an OLED, my only other option will probably be the 75" X940D. It's the only FALD model Sony is offering for 2016.
Click to expand...

Once again as a person with an edge-lit display that hits around 540 nits, the HDR looks good. Highlights are just about as bright as I could physically tolerate.
 
J

J-Rzez

Member
FrankNitty said:
I'm in the same boat as you. Not going to go from EF9500 to a G6 at t hat price point. I am looking to see what the street price of the E and C cost before I decide. If it makes sense I'll sell my ZT60 and get one, but only if the improvements are substantial. If they are slight vs the EF its not worth it imho. No doubt the G6 is already better than the EF but the question is just how much better in all aspects.

What's funny is I'm getting same same vibe I got with the jump from the VT30 to the VT50. Like the 50 was better and fixed some of the 30 issues but not substantial enough to warrant the upgrade from 30 to 50. Unlike the substantial difference from the 30 to 60. Not sure why but getting that same feeling about the EF to G like I did back then. Definitely going to wait and see how things shake out.
Click to expand...

Only thing I know as a difference between the EF9500 and these are slightly brighter output, wider color gamut, and the G-model has an additional HDMI? That doesn't sound enough to warrant that jump for me alone for the same size for sure. It does sound like the scenario you described.

Now, the differences between the B, E, and G seems to be aesthetics, sound, and the G-model has 4 HDMI, while the B-series doesn't have 3D. That's all on paper. There has to be something else going on there in the background as in CPU or something otherwise I can't see how LG can justify price differences on those things alone.

LG updated their old flagship TVs to WebOS 2.0 last year, I kind of hope they do the same this time, but I haven't seen any mention of it yet.

And yes, it's absolutely crazy to think that those LED TVs this year will hit 1000+nits with ease. I'd check that out just to say I saw it, and never look at it again as that's too damn bright. I prefer to see black and no image when I close my eyes after looking at a TV usually. lol.
 
D

DOT DASH DOT

Member
I don't think the LG will see input lag as a big enough of a differentiator to list between the models. I bet there's gonna be some processing differences between them, and lag will be worse. I'm calling it now ;)
 
Y

Yaari

Member
JustCheezze said:
Believe it or not, majority of gamers overestimate the input lag that they can perceive. If no one told anyone, majority won't notice high input lag unless it's really like insanely high that it's obnoxious.

33.7ms is good enough.
Click to expand...

That's cool but I don't want to be the one to find out that it does bother me, when I buy a new TV. That said, I'm happy that 33.7 is good enough. I've waited long enough until I jumped on the OLEDs.

Hopefully there won't be any new issues showing up. That would suck.
 
M

MrJames

Member
J-Rzez said:
Only thing I know as a difference between the EF9500 and these are slightly brighter output, wider color gamut, and the G-model has an additional HDMI? That doesn't sound enough to warrant that jump for me alone for the same size for sure. It does sound like the scenario you described.

Now, the differences between the B, E, and G seems to be aesthetics, sound, and the G-model has 4 HDMI, while the B-series doesn't have 3D. That's all on paper. There has to be something else going on there in the background as in CPU or something otherwise I can't see how LG can justify price differences on those things alone.

LG updated their old flagship TVs to WebOS 2.0 last year, I kind of hope they do the same this time, but I haven't seen any mention of it yet.

And yes, it's absolutely crazy to think that those LED TVs this year will hit 1000+nits with ease. I'd check that out just to say I saw it, and never look at it again as that's too damn bright. I prefer to see black and no image when I close my eyes after looking at a TV usually. lol.
Click to expand...

2016 OLED upgrades:

- 50% increase in light output (400 nits to 600 nits)
- Color gamut increase from 86% DCI to 99% DCI
- Input lag decreases from 50ms to 34ms
- Dolby Vision support
- HDR presets (standard, bright, vivid) control luminance range for day/night HDR viewing.
- Production updates to reduce panel uniformity issues.
- VESA compatible mounting support
- VP9 Profile 2 support for Youtube HDR
- User control over voltage compensation process

Right now pricing estimates look like this:

G6: 77" $25,000, 65" $8,000 - 4 HDMI, better soundbar, one piece folding design, flat, 3D, panel on glass design
E6: 65" $7,000, 55" $5,000 - Soundbar, flat, 3D, panel on glass design
C6: 65" $6,000, 55" $4,000 - Curved, 3D
B6: 65" $6,000, 55" $4,000 - Flat, 2D only

No way I would be able to justify going from a EF9500 to a 2016 especially if I had one without any panel issues. It has HDMI 2.0a and supports HDR10. That should be good for a few years until LG starts shipping larger panels from their new OLED plant that should be coming online around mid 2018.

EDIT: Only the 65" G6 and 65" E6 pricing is official. The rest is what some retailers are taking preorders for. Launch is still months away for most models so pricing could still change.
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
MrJames said:
2016 OLED upgrades:

- 50% increase in light output (400 nits to 600 nits)
- Color gamut increase from 86% DCI to 99% DCI
- Input lag decreases from 50ms to 34ms
- Dolby Vision support
- HDR presets (standard, bright, vivid) control luminance range for day/night HDR viewing.
- Production updates to reduce panel uniformity issues.
- VESA compatible mounting support
- VP9 Profile 2 support for Youtube HDR
- User control over voltage compensation process

Right now pricing estimates look like this:

G6: 77" $25,000, 65" $8,000 - 4 HDMI, better soundbar, one piece folding design, flat, 3D, panel on glass design
E6: 65" $7,000, 55" $5,000 - Soundbar, flat, 3D, panel on glass design
C6: 65" $6,000, 55" $4,000 - Curved, 3D
B6: 65" $6,000, 55" $4,000 - Flat, 2D only

No way I would be able to justify going from a EF9500 to a 2016 especially if I had one without any panel issues. It has HDMI 2.0a and supports HDR10. That should be good for a few years until LG starts shipping larger panels from their new OLED plant that should be coming online around mid 2018.

EDIT: Only the 65" G6 and 65" E6 pricing is official. The rest is what some retailers are taking preorders for. Launch is still months away for most models so pricing could still change.
Click to expand...
Sounds great

I am happy with my 65EF9500, I figure 2017 or 2018 will be a good year to take the plunge on another OLED set
 
Y

Yaari

Member
Meh, if the TVs are no longer going to support it, then surely theres not going to be any new content either. I might just go for that B6 OLED.
 
F

FrankNitty

Member
It's begun...

3C844F7D-E2FD-4206-9180-94C9A10E37D1_zpsjfl69fym.jpg


824B50E6-0C5E-4DFE-964C-6BA660F9EA31_zpsqqm5q0el.jpg
Click to expand...

going to see how it compares to the Oppo 103D for upscaling and speed on some standard blu rays, and and see the visual difference of Exodus as well.
 
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