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[-viper-]

Considering if Sony bans CFW completely from PSN, they will miss out on a lot of PSN sales. Online gaming they might ban, but will they also block the store?

Now if they do, I think some gamers might resort to then using other means to procure their PSN games. If I understood correctly, they have both small filesizes and have been already distributed on the 3.41 JB consoles with no PSN access. This post is in no way condoning illegal downloading, but simply stating that I think it's a probable scenario.

I doubt most people using CFW would buy games in the first place.

 

[-viper-]

http://psx-scene.com/forums/f149/exclusive-gt5-save-successfully-hacked-unlocked-74882/

Its shit like this as to why CFW should not be allowed on PSN.

FUCKING BOILS MY BLOOD.....!

jeez.

this is why i support the console banning of anyone who uses CFW.

the 'homebrew' applications for PS3 should only be used for offline use. want the homebrew? buy a second ps3 for it. i don't want to see CFW users to go anywhere near online play or the PSN.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think the chances of that are actually pretty decent, if only because the PS3 is cracked so wide open that it'll likely be possible before too long to completely hide any purely client-side activity from Sony, meaning that the only stuff they'd be able to detect and ban for would be server-side stuff (e.g. suddenly acquiring every trophy in the database, cheating, or using the currently hidden/deactivated cross-game voice chat feature).

Which is why they should start banning those with hacked consoles right now. There's really no reason to wait if they can detect those that have hacked their system.

 

[sw1tch]

I hope they ban everyone with a CFW let's be honest only 5% use it for homebrew the rest use it for piracy/cheating, and the hypocrisy in those "cfw" threads is sad..

 

[Keyser Soze]

I hope they ban everyone with a CFW let's be honest only 5% use it for homebrew the rest use it for piracy/cheating, and the hypocrisy in those "cfw" threads is sad..

 

[iapetus]

No, because that makes it into a tautology, essentially -- you don't need an external reason not to want cheats on PSN. There was no logical error in what he said: he doesn't want CFW'd to be able to access PSN because it might lead to cheats, going by the GT5 hacked save thing working only on jailbroken PS3s. You may not agree that the potential for cheating should be punished, but going "fix'd" is weak debating, at best.

So I point out his slippery slope fallacy in a slightly tongue in cheek way, and that's weak debating? There are ways to specifically detect many types of cheating and handle it without a blanket ban of CFW.

 

[Wazzim]

I hope they ban everyone with a CFW let's be honest only 5% use it for homebrew the rest use it for piracy/cheating, and the hypocrisy in those "cfw" threads is sad..

Fucking hell people, can't we just use emulators without being called hypocrits?
Not that it matters, I'm going to OFW right now with some emulators installed obviously, they can detect everything btw. (the ps3 sends user history to their servers)

 

[SolidSnakex]

Digital Foundry just put up a story on this issue

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-psn-jailbreaking

They do mention that Sony does have the ability to brick your console. I didn't think that something like that was possible.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Digital Foundry just put up a story on this issue

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-psn-jailbreaking

They do mention that Sony does have the ability to brick your console. I didn't think that something like that was possible.

Niiiceee. They've linked to my comment in that article. I'm now officialy GAF royalty.

 

[SolidusDave]

Were viper- and sw1tch banned due to their last posts in this thread? Banner Hammer indeed I guess.

Spoiler

(I thought you only get banned if you address all homebrew users as pirates etc.? It's also not even a thread about homebrew)

 

[Metalmurphy]

Did sw1tch just get banned for a comment on his opinion on how Sony should handle bans, on a thread made specifically for ban discussions?


smh...

 

[Zoe]

This sentiment:

I doubt most people using CFW would buy games in the first place.

doesn't necessarily point towards piracy. We have people in this thread and others who have said they stopped using their PS3's a long time ago and are only interested in homebrew developments. They already stopped being customers.

Digital Foundry just put up a story on this issue

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-psn-jailbreaking

They do mention that Sony does have the ability to brick your console. I didn't think that something like that was possible.

Of course there's the ability for them to brick it. All they have to do is write something into the next firmware update. Whether they'd actually do it is more questionable.

 

[Beer Monkey]

They do mention that Sony does have the ability to brick your console. I didn't think that something like that was possible.

I fully expect to just block my whole PS3 from the internet all together at some point. I don't play my PS3 online and I haven't bought a downloadable PSN game since Joe Danger. If I can have my ultimate media center and emulation hub plus disc-based PS3 games, I'm happy.

And Sony won't be able to touch me.

 

[Mr_Brit]

This sentiment:

doesn't necessarily point towards piracy. We have people in this thread and others who have said they stopped using their PS3's a long time ago and are only interested in homebrew developments. They already stopped being customers.




Of course there's the ability for them to brick it. All they have to do is write something into the next firmware update. Whether they'd actually do it is more questionable.

That would be illegal in most countries and would destroy Sony PR wise.

 

[The Elite]

I fully expect to just block my whole PS3 from the internet all together at some point. I don't play my PS3 online and I haven't bought a downloadable PSN game since Joe Danger. If I can have my ultimate media center and emulation hub plus disc-based PS3 games, I'm happy.

And Sony won't be able to touch me.

So is blocking PSN not enough? Should I be pulling the plug on the internet altogether?

 

[Keyser Soze]

So is blocking PSN not enough? Should I be pulling the plug on the internet altogether?

You should not even be posting here, it's too dangerous. Damn spies!!

 

[Zoe]

That would be illegal in most countries and would destroy Sony PR wise.

What would happen if a console is designed to brick if it attempts to perform a function it's not designed to do (say, run game software off of a burned BD). Would that still be considered illegal since it's not an attack directed at the specific user?

 

[darkwing]

http://psx-scene.com/forums/f149/exclusive-gt5-save-successfully-hacked-unlocked-74882/

Its shit like this as to why CFW should not be allowed on PSN.

FUCKING BOILS MY BLOOD.....!

until they can hide an X2010 specs in a Fiat 500 chassis online, it isn't really big an issue online

 

[iapetus]

That would be illegal in most countries and would destroy Sony PR wise.

Yup, just like removing advertised functionality from hardware remotely through a firmware update.

...

...

 

[mattiewheels]

So is blocking PSN not enough? Should I be pulling the plug on the internet altogether?

I actually yanked my ethernet cord, since there may or may not be communication to servers even when not signed in to psn.

 

[Beer Monkey]

So is blocking PSN not enough? Should I be pulling the plug on the internet altogether?

It appears that all current 'phone home' attempts by the system (including the one at boot-up regardless of whether you log in to PSN) are connecting to some *.playstation.net machine i.e. some machine in the playstation.net domain.

To this end I have blocked outbound connections to playstation.net (originating from machines other than my PC) in my router firewall (Tomato running on a Linksys WRT54GL).

However, what if there are other machines being contacted in other domains? Or some future firmware starts contacting other machines and updated custom firmware does not catch this?

This makes me consider blocking, in my router, all internet connection by my PS3's IP address. This would allow me to do local streaming and file sharing without worrying that my PS3 is talking to Sony.

Of course, if some Cydia or Homebrew Channel type app is released, I would want to whitelist the domain that it contacts.

I actually yanked my ethernet cord, since there may or may not be communication to servers even when not signed in to psn.

Be wary, I pulled the plug once and discovered that my PS3 just switched to wireless automatically and grabbed an IP address from my router's DNS. Make sure wireless is turned off.

 

[test_account]

Yup, just like removing advertised functionality from hardware remotely through a firmware update.

...

...

What happend to the OtherOS case? If it was illegal, i guess that the court have setteled things now, or? If yes, what was the verdict? I have heard that someone was offered money back, but i dont know if that was neccessarily done through court.

 

[Zoe]

Be wary, I pulled the plug once and discovered that my PS3 just switched to wireless automatically and grabbed an IP address from my router's DNS. Make sure wireless is turned off.

Shouldn't you be able to avoid this if you don't have the wireless profile set up?

 

[Metalmurphy]

What happend to the OtherOS case? If it was illegal, i guess that the court have setteled things now, or? If yes, what was the verdict? I have heard that someone was offered money back, but i dont know if that was neccessarily done through court.

Dunno about the US, but in Europe, if you pressure a retailer hard enough, they will give you money back. Like if you bought a product that doesn't work the way it's supposed to.

I was able to get 599€ for my broken 60GB unit even though the PS3s cost 399€ when I returned it. Why did I get the full 599€? Cause the new ones didn't play PS2 games.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Be wary, I pulled the plug once and discovered that my PS3 just switched to wireless automatically and grabbed an IP address from my router's DNS. Make sure wireless is turned off.

* Terminator reference*

I personally have been ruining everything online since I installed. Will probably be the first to get hit with what ever happens... I do not think Sony will go crazy though.

 

[gregor7777]

This makes me consider blocking, in my router, all internet connection by my PS3's IP address. This would allow me to do local streaming and file sharing without worrying that my PS3 is talking to Sony.

Absolutely, 100% do this. Or better yet by MAC address if you haven't assigned the PS3 an IP address manually.

EDIT: to be clear, that is, if you want to be sure no traffic is being sent out.

 

[Melchiah]

The only thing that would interest me in this, is if it would allow playing non-EU region Blu-Rays and DVDs, but I think I don't want to risk it if they indeed find a way to ban the accounts.

 

[test_account]

Dunno about the US, but in Europe, if you pressure a retailer hard enough, they will give you money back. Like if you bought a product that doesn't work the way it's supposed to.

I was able to get 599€ for my broken 60GB unit even though the PS3s cost 399€ when I returned it. Why did I get the full 599€? Cause the new ones didn't play PS2 games.

Ok, i see, so even if the OtherOS wasnt restored, at least a financial solution by getting your money back was offered? That is better than nothing at least

Regarding your 60GB PS3, nice that you got a full refund

 

[DangerousDave]

Were viper- and sw1tch banned due to their last posts in this thread? Banner Hammer indeed I guess.

Spoiler

(I thought you only get banned if you address all homebrew users as pirates etc.? It's also not even a thread about homebrew)

So you can get banned from gaf for saying that 95% of CFW user will pirate, but you shouldn't be banned from PSN unless they catch you cheating?

 

[jamaniek]

http://psx-scene.com/forums/f149/exclusive-gt5-save-successfully-hacked-unlocked-74882/

Its shit like this as to why CFW should not be allowed on PSN.

FUCKING BOILS MY BLOOD.....!

It would happen sooner or later. Sad but true

 

[Beer Monkey]

Absolutely, 100% do this. Or better yet by MAC address is you haven't assigned the PS3 an IP address manually.

Everything on the wired network in my house gets a manual IP address, natch. And all my consoles are wired.

 

[gregor7777]

Everything on the wired network in my house gets a manual IP address, natch. And all my consoles are wired.

Same, but still, I would wager most people are using DHCP and those IPs will get changed under various circumstances.

EDIT: and am I missing a joke with the "banner" hammer? Don't people usually call it the "ban" hammer?

 

[Wazzim]

* Terminator reference*

I personally have been ruining everything online since I installed. Will probably be the first to get hit with what ever happens... I do not think Sony will go crazy though.

I hope not, the least they could do is respond to the question about bannings, like a ultimatum to have OFW without brew on your hdd.

It would happen sooner or later. Sad but true

Nah, GT5 has been cheated to hell already with all the exploits in the game. My friend has like 10 X1s.

 

[ScrabbleBanshee]

Same, but still, I would wager most people are using DHCP and those IPs will get changed under various circumstances.

EDIT: and am I missing a joke with the "banner" hammer? Don't people usually call it the "ban" hammer?

Reference to the Wii Banner Bomb perhaps.

I would love to run some emulators on my PS3, particularly the ones that never ever ran quite right on the Wii but I'm taking a wait and see attitude on this whole thing. I like my PSN account and I don't want to lose my BC PS3. I don't quite want to run homebrew bad enough to actually purchase a second PS3 to lead to slaughter either.

 

[RyanDG]

What happend to the OtherOS case? If it was illegal, i guess that the court have setteled things now, or? If yes, what was the verdict? I have heard that someone was offered money back, but i dont know if that was neccessarily done through court.

The Australian court threw out the lawsuit. The US case went into verbal arguments on November 4th with Sony asking the same thing (no result on that one yet). I have never heard of any court ruling against Sony yet in any of the lawsuits on the PS3.

What would happen if a console is designed to brick if it attempts to perform a function it's not designed to do (say, run game software off of a burned BD). Would that still be considered illegal since it's not an attack directed at the specific user?

Sony will not be able to set up a release that specifically bricked a system of a console user. However, if an update Sony does that inadvertently causes issues with a modified or custom firmware, Sony would not be held liable for that (and unfortunately for those with the bricked consoles - in order to get relief they would have to set out to prove that the purpose of the upgrade was to intentionally brick the consoles).

 

[Beer Monkey]

Reference to the Wii Banner Bomb perhaps.

I would love to run some emulators on my PS3, particularly the ones that never ever ran quite right on the Wii but I'm taking a wait and see attitude on this whole thing. I like my PSN account and I don't want to lose my BC PS3. I don't quite want to run homebrew bad enough to actually purchase a second PS3 to lead to slaughter either.

Eventually the CFW authors will get really good at covering their tracks and hiding from Sony all the telltale signs, deleting push data, and so on. But it will be a cat and mouse game and your PSN account will always be at risk if you have a modded system. Having two systems is the only sure-fire way to ensure that you are never banned from PSN.

 

[SolidusDave]

So you can get banned from gaf for saying that 95% of CFW user will pirate, but you shouldn't be banned from PSN unless they catch you cheating?

mh yeah that's strange, we learned in this very thread that you have the RIGHT to not get banned (even if you actually break the rules).
I'm so confused now

 

[TTP]

That would be illegal in most countries and would destroy Sony PR wise.

They could do something different than bricking. Like preventing to install further official FW updates. De facto preventing to play future games.

 

[Angst]

http://psx-scene.com/forums/f149/exclusive-gt5-save-successfully-hacked-unlocked-74882/

Its shit like this as to why CFW should not be allowed on PSN.

FUCKING BOILS MY BLOOD.....!

What the hell does it matter if other players have a gazillion credits, platinum trophy and a thousand X1s? If people want to hack save files I couldn't care less as it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game in any way.

My biggest fear is that people start messing with cars so they get hidden HP boosts and use them online. If I encounter people like that online I'll be pretty mad... :-/

 

[Wazzim]

They could do something different than bricking. Like preventing to install further official FW updates. De facto preventing to play future games.

CFW, they can make their own firmwares to counter.

 

[Zoe]

Edit: nvm

 

[SolidusDave]

btw, couldn't they also remove firmware installation via USB with the next firmware update?

 

[Wazzim]

btw, couldn't they also remove firmware installation via USB with the next firmware update?

That's actually a good idea and would atleast stop the people that have updated to that firmware, now you could install everything you need to downgrade (if they could make it work) and upgrade.

 

[iNvid02]

btw, couldn't they also remove firmware installation via USB with the next firmware update?

this was my guess, its gonna be a "fuck you" to people who have shit internet and rely on updating through their PC, but Sony have bigger things to worry about

 

[EricHasNoPull]

I think it's interesting that people would WANT to go online on a machine that is running anonymous hacker-generated code. WTF?

I mean how many of you people interested in running this code and still going online with the same machine are actually going to be able to check the code of every program you are installing to absolutely know there's nothing malicious in there? Not many, I'd bet. And it's not like there's an anti-virus/spyware suite out there to give you any reasonable peace of mind either.

You just trust a group of anonymous guys on the internet that they won't slip in some program that runs some code in the background to sniff your PSN information, which is often tied to a credit card number, or your messages and friends lists? Aren't you worried about safeguarding your privacy and your PSNetwork identity?

I am.

If I'm going to leave the safe streets of Sony's approved code and network, and go walk around in the scary neighborhood of hacked code, I'm leaving my wallet at home.

You make really good, sensible and valid points, but I am still going to listen to Gafers that look and sound like this guy when it comes to this topic. slightly NSFW
http://tinyurl.com/cxoggh

 

[sajj316]

unplug ether net cable and/or disable wireless .. disable internet. Go completely dark if you want 100% assurance that you won't get banned. Ideal for a two system setup. For those that want to go on PSN but still run CFW, you'll need to wait until we have more info and CFW authors fully understand how to bypass these security measures.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

So I point out his slippery slope fallacy in a slightly tongue in cheek way, and that's weak debating? There are ways to specifically detect many types of cheating and handle it without a blanket ban of CFW.

You gotta admit, blanket ban is the most effective way. It also discourage people from hacking their systems, while people that want the hack couldn't care less about being online (Dragona, the people that stayed with OtherOS firmware, etc.). Allowing people to just walk around PSN with traces of cfw on their system is like letting them walk among people with loaded guns. Sure they might not use it but they could be easily tempted (cheats is like a drug, once you pop you can't stop).

How would you feel if Geohot made a app that allowed gaffers to have mod control and ban mods? They'd say, "We just want this because we can use a awesome search, poster history, and more innovative custom homebrew tools. I'd never ban a mod or unbann my fwends "

 

[Dreams-Visions]

http://psx-scene.com/forums/f149/exclusive-gt5-save-successfully-hacked-unlocked-74882/

Its shit like this as to why CFW should not be allowed on PSN.

FUCKING BOILS MY BLOOD.....!

I don't understand. The guy wanted to basically cheat to unlock some cars and cash to buy other cars? Who gives a shit? How does this affect you?

 

[sajj316]

You gotta admit, blanket ban is the most effective way. It also discourage people from hacking their systems, while people that want the hack couldn't care less about being online (Dragona, the people that stayed with OtherOS firmware, etc.). Allowing people to just walk around PSN with traces of cfw on their system is like letting them walk among people with loaded guns. Sure they might not use it but they could be easily tempted (cheats is like a drug, once you pop you can't stop).

Although I have soft modded my old ps3, I won't be taking it online. I understand the concerns of service integrity and would rather play in a sandbox w/o sand covered dog shit. Doesn't mean everyone is like me and I do agree with a blanket ban. If you try to get on PSN, you should be aware of the consequences.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I don't understand. The guy wanted to basically cheat to unlock some cars and cash to buy other cars? Who gives a shit? How does this affect you?

That's just the beginning, they could enter more hacks via the save file (maybe later the game files) like hidden HP, or whatever their clever enough to implement.