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[Rembrandt]

Additional context in the form of more useful data like:
- XBL Gold Subscriber figures
- ARPU per MAU and per XBL Gold Sub
- Average number of monthly transactions per MAU
- Average price of said transactions per MAU
- Conversion rate of XBL Gold per HW unit sold

These are the sorts of data people look for to perform market analysis. Sony provided the data required to determine the data point for some of these. MS provides none of the data required to determine the data point for any of these making their MAU figure less informative.




I have 0 interest in engaging in brand wars with you. You seemed to not grasp the logic behind why MS is criticized for their MAU figures and Sony is not. I was trying to inform you why that is. Clearly you have no interest in learning the answer as everything just devolves back into "LMAO" and outright dismissals so I'll just stop trying.

http://neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1372905&page=1


Did you watch their last financial briefing?


Might have seen information you're curious about.

Granted, I have not. I asked you what you wanted to see and don't dismiss it.

I dismissed your claims of every post about this subject comin from one trying to analyze it. Something I thought I wouldn't be necessary.

Is this the gaming equivalent of 'I have a black gay friend'?

I'm happy to agree to disagree with you, if you want to hold on to that opinion despite all the other points raised in this thread then that's up to you. Maybe if Microsoft decide to start reporting hardware numbers again you might change your mind.

As for the bold... What are you doing?

My post towards you was an obvious joke. I guess not so obvious. maybe I'm just on OT too much.

 

[OléGunner]

Poster now wants to duel in-game to settle a MAU debate?
You couldn't make it up.

 

[jrcbandit]

Expect that when the games released with PS+ were mostly 'overwhelming' their subscription numbers sat at like 1/10 of this.

You make a good point, the multiplayer is what is getting COD/Madden players paying for PS+. I wonder what the breakdown would be for people who pay solely for the multiplayer and how it will be affected (if any?) by the fact that Destiny is coming to PC. Destiny was the sole reason I was keeping my Plus subscription.

That's not low at all. In June of last year they were at 20m subscribers, so they's stacked on another 6m since then.

But isn't it low since there are ~60 (definitely over 54) million PS4 out there (and Vita/PS3 but I doubt many pay for those) and you can't play multiplayer without a subscription.

 

[Yjynx]

Were people high on this thread.... We're talking about more than 1 billion revenue per year..... EA.. in fact any publisher could kill someone for that.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

My subscription, only used to play Destiny, lapses in September and won't be renewed. Once the game hits PC I'll finally be free of the piece of shit that is PS+.

Fuck Sony and fuck Microsoft for starting this crap with Live.

I feel where you're coming from. The free games have made Xbox live worth it to me. $60 for 12+ games.

 

[Oersted]

Thats solely because the value massively increased, right?

 

[Sniffynose]

My PS+ expired, yup... that $70 CAD price tag isn't sitting well with me.

I really hate the idea of paying out yet again for p2p connections, I am going to basically end up using the PS4's as LAN or single player machines from now on.

I haven't had much use for it this past year and banking on the free games isn't much of a value proposition vs. What you can just buy outright on PC.

I mean it's cute they have almost 30million subs but those people likely don't have much choice in the matter since even trying to play minecraft with your family across a few systems counts as "online play".

It's gross, and now we have Nintendo about to pull this shit too...

 

[Rymuth]

?

?

Lmfaoooooooo


wait what are we laughing at

Check his tag. Poor guy...

 

[Gearless]

What are you even talking about? What was the purpose of your first post in this thread? Something about a pot and a kettle being called back springs to mind.

One company is now offering full transparency while the other is pushing numbers that make things look favourable while hiding other numbers in order to keep shareholders on side.

Are you sure? All the numbers I've seen at the moment have been for the PS4 or Plus, no numbers for PSVR except for words like "successful". Where's the VITA, PS Now and PlayStation Vue numbers? If you do have them, please share them with us.

No company will offer you full transparency because that's impossible, manipulation will always happen to benefit the company's interests.

I'm not saying that MS should be excluded from the narrative, all I'm saying is that Sony isn't exactly clean as well when it comes to transparency. Both will show you what they want to show.

 

[wapplew]

How many of those sub last til 2020?


Raise hand, buy too many sub thanks to discount and free game in Asia PSN.

 

[Grumplestiltskin]

http://neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1372905&page=1


Did you watch their last financial briefing?


Might have seen information you're curious about.

No. None of the information presented here provides any of the data necessary to determine any of the data points I mentioned. Its mostly various demographic splits for their users not sales or revenue data. Its interesting info but, as its not revenue or sales related, its not useful in the slightest for the sorts of market analysis people here are interested in. If I have somehow missed some revenue reporting within by all means please point it out to me. I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Rembrandt]

Check his tag. Poor guy...

Lmao. RIP Bish

Didn't think it would offend some people this much, even if you think I'm wrong.

No. None of the information presented here provides any of the data necessary to determine any of the data points I mentioned. Its mostly various demographic splits for their users not sales or revenue data. Its interesting info but, as its not revenue or sales related, its not useful in the slightest for the sorts of marketing analysis people here are interested in. If I have somehow missed some revenue reporting within by all means please point it out to me. I'd love to be wrong.

Did you watch or just check the slides?

I'm genuinely asking. I can skim it tomorrow or see if I can find any. It's why I asked you for what information you wanted to see. It wasn't dismissive.

 

[Arklite]

I feel where you're coming from. The free games have made Xbox live worth it to me. $60 for 12+ games.

I used to feel that way about Plus but I rarely have an interest in their offers anymore. Subscription games sold me on Vita and had me entertained for years but now it's just an extra bill.

 

[SMOK3Y]

Lmao. RIP Bish

Where is Bish haven't seen him post for ages

 

[Usobuko]

I'm on PS plus without ps4.

This month they gave tekken tag 2 revolution ( ps3 ) for Asian users. I think it's worthwhile rental for me.

 

[Grumplestiltskin]

Did you watch or just check the slides?

I'm genuinely asking. I can skim it tomorrow or see if I can find any. It's why I asked you for what information you wanted to see. It wasn't dismissive.

I checked the slides. Don't have time to watch the entire presentation right now. Generally speaking any revenue talk will be supported by graphs and graphics so not seeing any revenue related info or graphics in the slides will almost assuredly mean there was none. There's also the matter of the people on GAF and elsewhere who are interested in the aforementioned data still not having said data for analysis so unless they all somehow missed this presentation (which seems unlikely) then it stands to reason the data isnt there.

 

[Rembrandt]

Where is Bish haven't seen him post for ages

Finishing up the graphic novel, I think. Hasn't posted since he stopped modding a couple months ago.

 

[SMOK3Y]

Finishing up the graphic novel, I think. Hasn't posted since he stopped modding a couple months ago.

Cheers

 

[Gearless]

No. None of the information presented here provides any of the data necessary to determine any of the data points I mentioned. Its mostly various demographic splits for their users not sales or revenue data. Its interesting info but, as its not revenue or sales related, its not useful in the slightest for the sorts of marketing analysis people here are interested in. If I have somehow missed some revenue reporting within by all means please point it out to me. I'd love to be wrong.

LOL!

This is NeoGAF, the place that has users that think a game should come to Play-station 4 because of the amount of consoles sold.

 

[Rembrandt]

I checked the slides. Don't have time to watch the entire presentation right now. Generally speaking any revenue talk will be supported by graphs and graphics so not seeing any revenue related info or graphics in the slides will almost assuredly mean there was none. There's also the matter of the people on GAF and elsewhere who are interested in the aforementioned data still not having said data for analysis so unless they all somehow missed this presentation (which seems unlikely) then it stands to reason the data isnt there.

GAF probably isn't the guaranteed spot to know everything since iirc we still get a lot of NPD numbers from people that left the site or were banned.


But that's information I'm curious about and would love to glance over. So if they don't release console sales, they should release more in depth info about MAU, I agree.

LOL!

This is NeoGAF, the place that has users that think a game should come to Play-station 4 because of the amount of consoles sold.

At least you've posted here enough to see there aren't a whole lot of super-in depth talks around here.


I kid. I kid.

 

[Grumplestiltskin]

LOL!

This is NeoGAF, the place that has users that think a game should come to Play-station 4 because of the amount of consoles sold.

Ooh I made a typo there. Meant "market analysis." But anyway I didn't say "all the people here" I said "people here" as in some of them meaning those discussing sales and analyzing the market on a regular basis. Believe it or not there is a sozeable community of people here that are very well informed and knowledgeable. Even then there are a lot of less informed people that are at the very least interested in a MAU to HW units sold data point and more still interested in specifically the HW sold data point neither of which are determinable with the current data available.

 

[anothertech]

What's wrong with that post I quoted?


Wanna add me on steam, my PS3 I have around here, or XB1?

lol to be fair you made first post in a ps4 numbers thread and your post was mocking the report for being hypocritical.

Did you expect different response?

I mean the only thing your posts are missing is the salt shaker.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Vita to an extent, but especially PS3 are dead platforms from an active user perspective. People are always bringing up the 80+ million install base number of the PS3 in these discussions, but those consoles are not actively used.

So Sony MAU is much more primarily made up of PS4 users compared to how much W10 and mobile makes up of Microsoft's touted 52 million MAU number. 360 is not a significant factor either in active users.

I"m not saying it's not primarily PS4 users. I'm sure it is.

But my first instinct when I read the number was "Wow, 26.4 million PS4 subscribers". But the more I thought about it, the more I realised it wouldn't be that many purely from the PS4.

 

[Hamster Plugin]

I"m not saying it's not primarily PS4 users. I'm sure it is.

But my first instinct when I read the number was "Wow, 26.4 million PS4 subscribers". But the more I thought about it, the more I realised it wouldn't be that many purely from the PS4.

The only other subscriber groups would be Vita owners that had huge amounts of content from Plus and don't want to lose it all, and PS3 subscribers with the same issue.

The free monthly games are such garbage these days I don't see anyone subscribing to that shit. It's at least 95% PS4 online players. I wouldn't sub to this shit if it wasn't required to play online.

 

[texhnolyze]

Good for them, but I don't think i'll ever submit to this kind of 'service'.

Makes you think that if PS+ or Gold are only depending on their own virtues instead of blocking the online functionality of video games that we purchase behind their subscription and use that as the main value of their "services", then just how much higher those non-subscribing percentage will get?

1%.

Seriously, with all big devs putting MP into their games (or making MP only games), it's only natural that these numbers will always grow.

 

[bombshell]

I"m not saying it's not primarily PS4 users. I'm sure it is.

But my first instinct when I read the number was "Wow, 26.4 million PS4 subscribers". But the more I thought about it, the more I realised it wouldn't be that many purely from the PS4.

I'm not sure I understand your last sentence.

This 26.4 million subscriber number is demonstrably almost entirely made up of PS4 owners. As mentioned by Nightengale earlier in the thread the PS+ subscriber number prior to PS4 launch was very, very low (< 3 million estimate) at a time when online was free and the only PS+ subscription incentive was free games and exclusive discounts (much more rare than the PS+ discounts today). Then add that the number of non-PS4 PS+ subscribers definitely has not risen since the launch of PS4 and phasing out of PS3.

 

[Rembrandt]

lol to be fair you made first post in a ps4 numbers thread and your post was mocking the report for being hypocritical.

Did you expect different response?

I mean the only thing your posts are missing is the salt shaker.

No, smh. I should have went for a midpage reply that would have gotten ignored.

I'm going to replace my post with the salt shaker, lol.

 

[anothertech]

Bwahahaaa you did it tho. Good show sir, good show.

 

[Rembrandt]

Bwahahaaa you did it tho. Good show sir, good show.

<3

More MAUr to everyone.

 

[jm89]

I remember reading somewhere sony used the psn username as the id for every user and because it gets referenced so many places it would have been a pain to change it. If it is true seems like a pretty amateur mistake, did they get a college graduate to create psn?

 

[Kashiwaba]

My PS+ expired, yup... that $70 CAD price tag isn't sitting well with me.

I really hate the idea of paying out yet again for p2p connections, I am going to basically end up using the PS4's as LAN or single player machines from now on.

I haven't had much use for it this past year and banking on the free games isn't much of a value proposition vs. What you can just buy outright on PC.

I mean it's cute they have almost 30million subs but those people likely don't have much choice in the matter since even trying to play minecraft with your family across a few systems counts as "online play".

It's gross, and now we have Nintendo about to pull this shit too...

https://mobile.pcgamesupply.com/catalog/buygames/sony-playstation-network-cards/Canada-Region

It's for $60 cad here i got mine from here it's safe and a little bit cheaper than psn store.

 

[Thorrgal]

Family/friend sharing of online play with one PS+ account is even officially detailed here: https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/g...plus-benefits-with-a-friend-on-playstation-4/

It's very easy with the whole "set your PS4 as your friend's primary PS4, set your friend's PS4 as your primary" setup. All accounts on the plus-subscribed account's primary system can play online.

Yeah, not only that but this setup allows us to both play to the games each other has, so for ex this month we bought Ghost Recon on my account and we both playing it. Basically half price for digital for the games we both interested in.

 

[kyser73]

The reason MS got shit for using MAU in NPD threads were the same as Sony getting shit for using 'PlayStation Family' combined sales to big-up PS3 sales PR. Using it as a substitute for continuously lower unit sales in some really creative PR was always going to get ribbed.

What was funnier is how for the X1S renaissance of Jul-Oct 2017 suddenly the PR & tweets from Hyrb & Greenberg were about unit sales, as was their end of year thing when they trumpeted about having higher unit sales than Sony for the Jul-Dec period.

Still, all this banter is in good huMAUr, eh?

 

[ViviOggi]

Clearly a top-notch service

 

[Frillen]

That's less than I thought considering it's a requirement for online gaming (mostly). I thought it would be over 50 % at least.

 

[kyser73]

One thing people forget are the PS+ discounts on the Store - I've saved more than three times my membership cost since my last renewal and managed to pick up some big titles at decent prices (this is Australia where deep discounting on release prices doesn't happen), plus the IGC element means I, at least, am happy with the value it's given.

 

[FelipeMGM]

thats somewhere between 1.3 to 1.5B in revenue just from PS+ (cuz of the price change)

thats crazy. I wonder whats their costs with the service are

 

[xrnzaaas]

That's a lot of people not subscribed to PS+.

I guess singleplayer still reigns supreme.

Not necessarily. I'm sure there are people buying PS+ only for a month or two to play MP in certain games they were looking forward to.

 

[Angel_DvA]

ez money

 

[Poster#1]

Steam has double the userbase, free, and provides 100x download speed.

They need to invest more in their network infrastructure.

 

[Nev]

That's a lot of people paying for nothing. Surprisingly less than I expected though, fortunately.

 

[SMOK3Y]

One thing people forget are the PS+ discounts on the Store - I've saved more than three times my membership cost since my last renewal and managed to pick up some big titles at decent prices (this is Australia where deep discounting on release prices doesn't happen), plus the IGC element means I, at least, am happy with the value it's given.

Ya AU here just bought MGSV for 15 offa PSN wouldn't have bought otherwise

 

[FDC1]

One thing people forget are the PS+ discounts on the Store - I've saved more than three times my membership cost since my last renewal and managed to pick up some big titles at decent prices (this is Australia where deep discounting on release prices doesn't happen), plus the IGC element means I, at least, am happy with the value it's given.

So much this. My membership is easily paid by the discounts I profit, everything else is pure bonus. But I must admit I'm probably buying more than the average gamer, I have a serious backlog problem lol.

 

[Apathy]

Best thing about this and the mua thread is watching Rembrandt lose it. Lol keep plugging away Xbox fanboy, gotta make sure no one is mean that corporation.

 

[Fdkn]

It seems my estimation last month was pretty close... so I think the argument stands about the tired AAA on PS+ argument.

PS3 had more expensive AAA games because there were never more than a couple of million subscribers, most of them on the hardcore spectrum of the consumer base where giving away the games served as promotion for next entries, while PS4 should be around the 25 million mark if the ~half userbase ratio is still going.

Big publishers are probably not that confortable potentially giving away 25 million copies of their games, even if they are no longer selling that much, because it could affect how their next big game is going to perform, as now ps+ subscribers are not mostly a demographic that plays that many games every year.

 

[Gearless]

The reason MS got shit for using MAU in NPD threads were the same as Sony getting shit for using 'PlayStation Family' combined sales to big-up PS3 sales PR. Using it as a substitute for continuously lower unit sales in some really creative PR was always going to get ribbed.

What was funnier is how for the X1S renaissance of Jul-Oct 2017 suddenly the PR & tweets from Hyrb & Greenberg were about unit sales, as was their end of year thing when they trumpeted about having higher unit sales than Sony for the Jul-Dec period.

Still, all this banter is in good huMAUr, eh?

The problem here is that people are claim that Sony offer transparency with is just not true. Be companies have manipulated the data to work out in their favour. So if we are going to mock MS because they didn't give the whole details and the Xbox brand, the same has to happen for Sony.

 

[Welfare]

Nice growth for PS+. ~45% of PS4's (estimating ~58M sold through and a massive amount of those sub's being on PS4) paying for it every year is a massive money generator.

 

[miller.skippins]

The problem here is that people are claim that Sony offer transparency with is just not true. Be companies have manipulated the data to work out in their favour. So if we are going to mock MS because they didn't give the whole details and the Xbox brand, the same has to happen for Sony.

but can i mock MS for trumpeting stats like 'the number of bullets being fired'? Those stats are really the worse.....and as far as i am aware, only MS seems to trumpet those stats.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Are these subscribers paying for the service because they want to, or because they have to?

That's the problem with these bullshit online pay walls.

 

[cyber_ninja]

PS4s gonna cross 100 million with ease



BABY PLEASE!

Easy, peasy, lemon squeezy. With all those games coming out and inevitable price drop they'll get there no problem.