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PoliGAF 2011: The 112th U.S. Congress is now in session: Want some graphs with that?

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D

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
TacticalFox88 said:
Its amazing how 8 years can screw a country for generations
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Not in Osama's wildest dreams did he think that the 9/11 attacks would cause so much damage. I wonder if Bush would have fucked things up as much had the towers not fallen :/
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Doc Holliday said:
Not in Osama's wildest dreams did he think that the 9/11 attacks would cause so much damage. I wonder if Bush would have fucked things up as much had the towers not fallen :/
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Bin Laden didn't cause this, it was the response to 9/11 that did it. We had a choice on what to do with 9/11 and we chose the wrong path. Spending a trillion on two wars, tax cuts, clam down on rights, etc.
 
D

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
LovingSteam said:
Bin Laden didn't cause this, it was the response to 9/11 that did it. We had a choice on what to do with 9/11 and we chose the wrong path. Spending a trillion on two wars, tax cuts, clam down on rights, etc.
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That's exactly what I'm saying.
 
J

Jackson50

Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Moral values was the key issue for 2004 voters according to the exit polls.
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That was certainly propelled by eleven states voting on constitutional amendments to prohibit same-sex marriage that election.
 
N

NumberTwo

Paper or plastic?
Doc Holliday said:
Not in Osama's wildest dreams did he think that the 9/11 attacks would cause so much damage. I wonder if Bush would have fucked things up as much had the towers not fallen :/
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To echo a certain Patton Oswalt. It feels like we are living in some shitty alternate reality.
 
S

Skiptastic

Member
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Reform on SS? Cool. Just remove the cap and voila. Or raise the retirement age by a few years and raise the cap on SS as a compromise is what I'm guessing.
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How about remove the cap, raise the retirement age a few years, and lower rates for all? That's, like, a win and a half for both sides (Dems get cap removed, Repubs get age raised, both sides get to say they lowered taxes) and should keep SS fiscally viable.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Skiptastic said:
How about remove the cap, raise the retirement age a few years, and lower rates for all? That's, like, a win and a half for both sides (Dems get cap removed, Repubs get age raised, both sides get to say they lowered taxes) and should keep SS fiscally viable.
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Raise the cap = raising taxes on the rich = not gonna happen, the GOP has shown they're going to hold the line on it. Dems should have moved on a lot of this stuff in the past two years.
 
S

Skiptastic

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Raise the cap = raising taxes on the rich = not gonna happen, the GOP has shown they're going to hold the line on it. Dems should have moved on a lot of this stuff in the past two years.
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Well, if it's not raising the cap, then it's means testing for the rich. That work better for the GOP's "guidelines"? I mean, they know that something has to be given to the Democrats to get it by the Senate and Obama.
 
L

LosDaddie

Banned
Another great OP, LSteam! And a Happy New Year to you, PoliGAF:D

I don't know what you guys are worried about. The next 2yrs should be great. I mean, the TBers promised to cut the deficit, cut taxes, reduce govt, and spur job growth. Who doesn't want that?



Averon said:
http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=165266
:lol

Pretty hard for me to feel sorry for Floridians. People get the government they elect into office. So they're stuck with the guy until 2014.
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The guy promised 700k new jobs and to run govt like a business. Therefore, I expect to land a new job really soon.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
LosDaddie said:
Another great OP, LSteam! And a Happy New Year to you, PoliGAF:D

I don't know what you guys are worried about. The next 2yrs should be great. I mean, the TBers promised to cut the deficit, cut taxes, reduce govt, and spur job growth. Who doesn't want that?





The guy promised 700k new jobs and to run govt like a business. Therefore, I expect to land a new job really soon.
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If his previous business is anything to go by, you should expect lots of fraud by the Rick Scott administration, not a job :lol
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
Diablos said:
Why are Republicans even going to waste their time with a repeal HCR/FinReg bill? Obama would veto both.
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So? Let him veto.

They're going to "waste their time with a repeal bill" because that is precisely what they were elected to do and what their supporters expect.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
JayDubya said:
So? Let him veto.

They're going to "waste their time with a repeal bill" because that is precisely what they were elected to do and what their supporters expect.
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So.. you're saying the republicans are in favor of increasing the deficit and support profit-driven death panels. Gotcha.

And no, they were elected to govern as elected officials. electing someone shouldn't entail them doing everything you want them to do, nor should it entail them doing everything they want to do. You seem to have the odd view that elections are simply a method to appoint an individual to enact a populist agenda. We'd have a direct democracy if we wanted government to function like that.

I really, really wish you would stop saying "They were elected to do this, so they should do it" or "The polls say people support/don't support X, so legislators should support/oppose X." That's not what legislating is about, and you know it.
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
Okay chuckles, let's try that again.

No, I don't want direct democracy, however, we do have a representative democracy, particularly within the House of... hrm... Representatives.

Said newly elected incoming Republican majority representatives campaigned on doing something, and people voted for them to do it, so they should do it. Whether or not it others will obstruct the goal does not mean that they should fail to try.
 
L

LosDaddie

Banned
GaimeGuy said:
If his previous business is anything to go by, you should expect lots of fraud by the Rick Scott administration, not a job :lol
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no, no, no!

Didn't you hear? Scott was elected because of his business acumen. He should lead FL back to the promised land in short order. That's what his brilliant voters claimed
 
T

ToxicAdam

Member
Interesting defense of the lottery:

The benefit to playing the lottery comes entirely between buying the ticket, and when the winner is revealed. During this interval, someone who has bought the ticket can entertain the idea that they might win, and pleasantly imagine how much better their life could be with the money, what they would do with it, etc. It's true that in some sense you always could just make yourself think about "what if I had $280 million?", but many people find it very hard to get their imaginations going on sheer will-power. A plausible and concrete path to the riches, no matter how low the probability, serves as a hook on which to suspend disbelief. In this regard, indeed, lottery tickets are arguably quite cost-effective. If a $1 lottery ticket licenses even one hour of imagining a different life, I don't see how people who spend $12 for two or three hours of such imagining at a movie theater, or $25 for ten hours at a bookstore, are in any position to talk.
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http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/705.html
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
GaimeGuy said:
So.. you're saying the republicans are in favor of increasing the deficit and support profit-driven death panels. Gotcha.

And no, they were elected to govern as elected officials. electing someone shouldn't entail them doing everything you want them to do, nor should it entail them doing everything they want to do. You seem to have the odd view that elections are simply a method to appoint an individual to enact a populist agenda. We'd have a direct democracy if we wanted government to function like that.

I really, really wish you would stop saying "They were elected to do this, so they should do it" or "The polls say people support/don't support X, so legislators should support/oppose X." That's not what legislating is about, and you know it.
Click to expand...

The more time these fools spend on futile symbolic gestures and vain attempts to emotionally gratify their idiot base, the better.
 
S

siddx

Magnificent Eager Mighty Brilliantly Erect Registereduser
ToxicAdam said:
Interesting defense of the lottery:



http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/weblog/705.html
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I've always maintained this. I enjoy gambling because it's exciting, the prospect of wining is fun. I buy a scratch ticket once in a while, and if im near a casino I'll duck in to play blackjack or some slots. I am aware that 90% of the time I am going to walk away poorer than before. But it's still fun to play, and there is always that 10%.


edit: Worst thing about that Florida nonsense is that it just adds more evidence to my long standing belief that a large percentage of people vote not on their own self interest, but simply because someone happens to be a democrat or republican.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
If I'm seeing this correctly, Obama's job approval ratings are at 50 for the first time since May 29-31 via Gallup. He's currently at 50-42. His 52-week high was 53.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Dude Abides said:
The more time these fools spend on futile symbolic gestures and vain attempts to emotionally gratify their idiot base, the better.
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no. I'd rather the bar get raised instead of continuing on this path towards Idiocracy.
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
GaimeGuy said:
no. I'd rather the bar get raised instead of continuing on this path towards Idiocracy.
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In a perfect world, you'd have intelligent, reasonable people enacting legislation that they genuinely believe, after careful consideration, advances the best long-term interests of the country. In the 2011 Congress, however, I'd rather have the Tea people tilting at windmills rather than actually enacting their nutso agenda.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
reilo said:
If I'm seeing this correctly, Obama's job approval ratings are at 50 for the first time since May 29-31 via Gallup. He's currently at 50-42. His 52-week high was 53.
Click to expand...
Where's Diablos when you need him.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
speculawyer said:
But like religion, it only works if you really believe it. If I buy a lottery ticket I won't get any such feeling. I'll just feel I wasted my money.
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I don't know.
I do enjoy gambling on sports, nothing crazy mind you, a few office pools plus I allocate a few hundred dollars every year for betting.
I don't expect to make money, and if I end up in the black, I just roll it into next year's budget.

And trust me, nothing make a Panthers vs. Bills games exciting like having 20$ riding on it, and no, I don't need to think that those 20$ are going to change my life for that to be true.

That being said, I always found that very old pro lottery argument to be extremely faulty for the following reasons -
  1. That illusionary benefit is a zero sum game. Yeah, you might be hopeful for a week but your hope will be crushed when you lose. This like saying "the benefit of Heroin addiction comes entirely between shooting up and coming down".
  2. if the goal of lottery is actually to give poor people hope, why not limit it's potential harm? I don't know, maybe one ticket per person?
  3. If hope is such a great thing, we can do even better. How about we pick one person at random every week and give that person 1 million dollars! think about it, everyone can win! sure, we'll need to raise taxes on that a bit, but think of the hope you're going to get every week, it's awesome. Wait, we're not for it? So only poor people need hope? Cool, got it, let them pay for it too, fucking freeloaders.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Krauser Kat said:
Good for Bams. Also let them try and repeal, also let the dems filibuster the shit out of it.
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This will be another test of Obama's hitherto poor messaging. A bunch of important, popular reforms just kicked in. When they push for repeal, Obama and company need to make it clear what they are going to be actually repealing. The medical loss ratios, denial of coverage for kids, children insurable on parents plans until age 26, the donut hole prescription drug discounts, ban on lifetime coverage limits, the list goes on. All very popular provisions that would be tossed. Obama is still the most popular national figure in politics and he needs to leverage that.

Though given how badly he did so the past two years, I'm not sure he will.
 
A

Averon

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Wow, they're actually going to try and do it? Holy fuck. :lol
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Expect the GOP house to vote on measures that they know can't pass the Senate, much less beat a presidential veto. They're doing this for media attention and to give red meat for the tea baggers. This is all about 2012 now.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Wow, they're actually going to try and do it? Holy fuck. :lol
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Gotta stoke that fire early I guess. If the Dems work this right it could be a great opportunity to advertise just what Healthcare reform actually entails.

The more I witness politics in action the more I think that Aikido is the way to success. Let yourself be attacked, and use that attack to further your own agenda.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
Averon said:
Expect the GOP house to vote on measures that they know can't pass the Senate, much less beat a presidential veto. They're doing this for media attention and to give red meat for the tea baggers. This is all about 2012 now.
Click to expand...

Yep. Also seeing on twitter that William Daley is being considered for new White House chief of staff. Here's Daley over a year ago:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/31053.html

William Daley, commerce secretary in the Clinton administration, brother of the Chicago mayor and long an influential voice for moderation in the party, went public last week with what is on the minds of other centrist Democrats in an opinion piece in the Washington Post.

Sounding the alarm after the party-switch of Rep. Parker Griffith of Alabama, Daley laid out a stark choice. “Either we plot a more moderate, centrist course or risk electoral disaster not just in the upcoming midterms but in many elections to come.”

Democrats ought to “acknowledge that the agenda of the party's most liberal supporters has not won the support of a majority of Americans — and, based on that recognition, to steer a more moderate course on the key issues of the day, from health care to the economy to the environment to Afghanistan,” Daley argued.
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B

badcrumble

Member
By the 12th it's likely that at least one person will have declared their candidacy for the GOP nomination for President, too, by the way.
 
Y

Yaweee

Member
Incognito said:
It's official: House GOP holding (meaningless) vote to repeal HCR on Jan 12th! Oh boy!
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This is such a bad idea for them, IMO, and will backfire horribly. There's a lot to like in HCR, and I don't think it will be too hard for Democrats to portray Republicans as trying to repeal the wildly approved aspects.

Why don't they just try to overwrite the shitty parts? Would that be too productive for the Republican party, compared to their usual feckless tantrums?
 
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