• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops

Status
Not open for further replies.
I feel like if something will take down Trump it will be something stupid. Like his hair surgeon writes an op-ed.
I dunno man. Even an illegitimate black baby from a Muslim mistress from Syria probably won't at this point. Your best bet is GOP electorate suddenly deciding to wake up from a stupor.
 
the only thing the will take down Trump is his ground game, or lack there of traditional ground game.

Caucus contests tend to be long and boring, I don't think that non-traditional supporters are used that sort of system as opposed to traditional party supporters
 

User 406

Banned
We need a new Trump OT.

Donald Trump |OT| The Man Who Sold the World

Trump |OT| If it's legitimate fascism, the GOP has ways to try to shut that whole thing down


Judging from the Hillary vs. poll numbers, I'm leaning towards the theory that a Trump third party run would lead to a better Republican downballot result. Both moderates and sTrumpets would have someone to turn out for at the top of the ticket, and a healthy chunk of the Trump voters will probably still vote for their (R) Senators and Representatives. Hillary's higher percentages in the 1v1 matchups makes it look like a lot of voters stay home altogether in both Trump and non-Trump nominee cases. Unless there's a GOP crossover factor, but that would only hold true for Trump, and he's got the best percentage of the lot.

Still way way too fucking early tho.
 

Makai

Member
Reuters

Trump - 37
Carson - 13
Rubio - 12
Cruz - 11
Wouldn't Vote - 6
Jeb - 5
Christie - 4

Zs6lHNJ.png
 

sangreal

Member
the only thing the will take down Trump is his ground game, or lack there of traditional ground game.

Caucus contests tend to be long and boring, I don't think that non-traditional supporters are used that sort of system as opposed to traditional party supporters

I believe Trump has more paid staff organizing in Iowa than anyone else -- or did at some point. Wouldn't be surprised if the same were true in the other caucus states
 

User1608

Banned
The people hoping for Trump to get murdered is a weird trend on GAF.
Yup, absolutely stupid, and I say this as a target of his rhetoric. All those el chapo jokes wth him made me feel weird too, from months ago in addition. Just feel like it's the wrong way to respond even if he's a putrid human being.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/

Unknown:
Will the anti-Trump majority in the GOP ever coalesce around one or two of his opponents? Surely that will happen eventually, but will it be in time to stop Trump’s nomination?

Trump:

The Trump effect is now probably long-term, meaning that even if he falls by the wayside in the nomination contest, he will continue to be a factor. Maybe he will run as an independent. Maybe he will make life difficult for the eventual GOP nominee from his permanent headquarters on Twitter. Or maybe it’s simply the accumulation of his offensive statements on videotape that will be used by Democrats to taint the fall Republican ticket.

An aside: How in the world will the Republican Party ever reunify behind its nominee in time and with sufficient enthusiasm to win next November? Right now, it appears that the party must depend on its members’ deep-seated, intense antipathy toward Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton to do the trick — neither of whom, it should be emphasized, are all that popular with the general electorate at the moment. In addition, the international situation, coupled with domestic terrorism, may be the extra fuel needed for the GOP to prevail. Finally, in a partisan age, we should expect Republican voters to rally around the party in the general election, although a divisive nominee will test this expectation. All of this will be revisited another day, when the smoke of the nomination fight finally starts to clear.

Cruz:

We add two cautions here. First, the month of January will see lots of gambits by all the candidates, and there’s more than enough time for this playbook to be upset and for the polls to move. Second, Cruz’s turn at bat will occasion intense media scrutiny of his weaknesses, including unpopularity that stretches almost across the board among his colleagues in the Senate (though in the age of Trump, that may help Cruz). It’s going to be fascinating to see if and how the electability standard is applied to Cruz. He insists that millions of conservative whites who abstained from voting in 2008 and 2012 will come out to vote for him in November, transforming the Electoral College picture. Yet a large majority of the GOP strategists we’ve consulted reject that theory, believing Cruz to be so conservative that he’ll be restricted to the deeply Republican states that together possess not even 200 electoral votes.

Ponder:

Kyle Kondik ‏@kkondik 8m8 minutes ago
Something to ponder - what if Trump was nominated? He's such a chameleon that he'd probably totally reconfigure his pitch in a general
 
Kyle Kondik ‏@kkondik 8m8 minutes ago
Something to ponder - what if Trump was nominated? He's such a chameleon that he'd probably totally reconfigure his pitch in a general

Why do people think this will work in the GE?
 

User1608

Banned
Why do people think this will work in the GE?
He's way too far gone at this point. There's a good (bad) reason why many candidates used dog whistles in the past. Plausible deniability and different "interpretations". There's nothing to guess about Trump's words; He's a racist, pure and simple.
 
“Demoralization has been the biggest enemy and Trump is changing all that,” said Stormfront founder Don Black, who reports additional listeners and call volume to his phone-in radio show, in addition to the site’s traffic bump. Black predicts that the white nationalist forces set in motion by Trump will be a legacy that outlives the businessman’s political career. “He’s certainly creating a movement that will continue independently of him even if he does fold at some point.”
“When well-known public figures make these kind of statements in the public square, they are taken as a permission-giving by criminal elements who go out and act on their words.” said Mark Potok of the SPLC. “Is it energizing the groups? Yeah. They’re thrilled.”
Well that's just great.
 
A mobilized white nationalist movement seems like it would be terrible for the health of the GOP party long term.
This is what I hate reading.

Of course it's not going to lead to policy or political successes. But because some people aren't a target they view it as sport.

This real life and politics has consequences beyond the horse race and media circus.
 
"You want to call it retro?" meanwhile carson is holding on to 2nd in almost every poll by the tips of his gifted fingers. Smh. It is nailbiting to watch, however.

Even if I win the fifty i'll barely care. Since my mans dropped out nothing was the same
 
This is what I hate reading.

Of course it's not going to lead to policy or political successes. But because some people aren't a target they view it as sport.

This real life and politics has consequences beyond the horse race and media circus.

on the contrary as a minority I welcome the white nationalists crawling back out from whatever rock they ran under after the 60s and 70s- it would at the very LEAST prevent "moderate republicans" from petending that racism is "over" and we can just dismantle all of the hard fought social progress that came about due to the civil rights movement in the 60s.
 

PBY

Banned
"You want to call it retro?" meanwhile carson is holding on to 2nd in almost every poll by the tips of his gifted fingers. Smh. It is nailbiting to watch, however.

Even if I win the fifty i'll barely care. Since my mans dropped out nothing was the same

What are the odds Trump gets every lost Carson vote? Or do he and Cruz split it?

Not sure I'm seeing a Rubio path to victory if that's the case.
 
on the contrary as a minority I welcome the white nationalists crawling back out from whatever rock they ran under after the 60s and 70s- it would at the very LEAST prevent "moderate republicans" from petending that racism is "over" and we can just dismantle all of the hard fought social progress that came about due to the civil rights movement in the 60s.

Indeed. It's the other side of the "if a far left candidate goes up and loses, it'll set the left back for decades" coin. No reason to believe that the same rules don't apply to the right.

For years to come any democrat will be able to denounce the coded language they favour and call it what it is, pointing back to what happened in 2016.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
What are the odds Trump gets every lost Carson vote? Or do he and Cruz split it?

Not sure I'm seeing a Rubio path to victory if that's the case.

Even if they split it Trump will break 40%, which might be enough to win this thing.
 
And terrible for people that are targets of their violence.

Agreed :(

This is what I hate reading.

Of course it's not going to lead to policy or political successes. But because some people aren't a target they view it as sport.

This real life and politics has consequences beyond the horse race and media circus.

I'm not viewing this as a sport. A marginalized right wing is good for minorities long term as well.
 

teiresias

Member
Given all this xenophobic and racist rhetoric I wonder what Kennedy thinks about the way he ruled in the Voting Rights act case. Between that ruling and his Citizens United ruling (and subsequent admission of it not working - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/citizens-united-anthony-kennedy_5637c481e4b0631799134b92 ), I find him to be entirely naive and stupid with regards to the undercurrent attitudes of a large (hopefully) minority in this country and how it affects those of color and other minorities.

The man can't think critically at all and has no conception of how the world is actually operating outside of the court - at least the other conservative justices I can just say are following their horrible conservative ideals.
 
Trump's going to collapse like a soufflé.. any.. moment.. now..

(And I want to watch a SpongeBob marathon now.)
SpongeBob is amazing, I will join you.

Goddamn Trump now has a larger lead than Hillary, in a 14 person field.
Well sure. A good majority of Democrats are like "Hillary or Bernie would both be great". Do any Republicans feel that way about their field? I think it's only the fringe who can't decide between Trump, Cruz or Carson.
 
Jeb's ego won't let him quit.

Dude is entitled as fuck.
If anyone wants to quit it's him, whereas the Bush loyalists seem more like the entitled ones. He looks miserable, like he's being dragged along to do something he doesn't have the heart for.

The game has changed. 16 years ago Bush would cruise to the nomination like his brother did. Now the grassroots and special interest money are engaged in such a way that multiple good candidates can compete. This isn't 2012 where only one person had a shot. The base is tired of losing with establishment guys, they want their own man.

Of course when Cruz or Trump lose the base will claim the establishment ruined them by not fully supporting, or the media doomed them, etc. Nothing will be Cruz's fault which means the base will never learn its lesson.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Thing is, the Democratic party only sticks together because of the Republican party. There's a vast range of views on the American left that're only really united by the desire to keep the Republicans out of office. A full Republican collapse would probably prompt a similar schism in the Democrats.
 
Thing is, the Democratic party only sticks together because of the Republican party. There's a vast range of views on the American left that're only really united by the desire to keep the Republicans out of office. A full Republican collapse would probably prompt a similar schism in the Democrats.

I don't think so.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Thing is, the Democratic party only sticks together because of the Republican party. There's a vast range of views on the American left that're only really united by the desire to keep the Republicans out of office. A full Republican collapse would probably prompt a similar schism in the Democrats.

No, just no. If you can say that I'm not sure you've been paying attention for more than this cycle.
 
Explain.



Explain.

sure, why not. I've got time to explain the obvious.

The democratic party is absolutely NOT the "anybody but republicans" party. Democrats have successfully built a diverse coalition around PROMOTING the issues the base cares about.

The Democrats are:

PRO gun control
PRO marriage equality
PRO gender equality
PRO abortion rights
PRO income equality
PRO campaign finance reform
PRO environment
PRO education

the democratic party isn't just going to "split apart" if the republicans collapse, because their base cares about all of these things, and democrats are the only ones fighting for them. What, you think they're all going to go and vote libertarian?
 

User 406

Banned

Griffin said that he was most enthusiastic about Trump’s candidacy this summer, but that his fervor has cooled since seeing details of the businessman’s tax and trade policies, which hew more closely to mainstream Republican positions than he had hoped.

"Wooo, I'm pumped for Trump, that guy is so racist, he hates everyone that I hate, wait, wait, more tax cuts for the wealthy? That's just not nice!"
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
No, just no. If you can say that I'm not sure you've been paying attention for more than this cycle.

I mean, it's true. The Democratic party is absurdly broad - I mean, take the difference between John Bel Edwards and Bernie Sanders, for example, and that's not even thinking about candidates leftwards of Sanders that would survive in a more fractured system but can be kept out by the establishment under the status quo. It's very difficult to think of any party in Western democracies that has an equivalent spread of views. If the Republicans genuinely stopped being an electoral force - as in, a Trump-like independent running against the Republicans becomes the norm rather than the exception - it's difficult to see some of these factions continuing to co-operate. Why work with someone who holds fundamentally different opinions to yourself if there's no common enemy? This doesn't mean the Democrats splitting into a two parties (that would be nonsense), but you can bet your bottom dollar that factionalism and internecine war within the framework of the Democratic party would increase, primaries would become far more hotly contested, and so on.

Now, this wouldn't be a stable state of affairs. The FPTP system in the United States militates against such a situation. But I still think it would prevail for at least a few electoral cycles.
 
If anyone wants to quit it's him, whereas the Bush loyalists seem more like the entitled ones. He looks miserable, like he's being dragged along to do something he doesn't have the heart for.

The game has changed. 16 years ago Bush would cruise to the nomination like his brother did. Now the grassroots and special interest money are engaged in such a way that multiple good candidates can compete. This isn't 2012 where only one person had a shot. The base is tired of losing with establishment guys, they want their own man.

Of course when Cruz or Trump lose the base will claim the establishment ruined them by not fully supporting, or the media doomed them, etc. Nothing will be Cruz's fault which means the base will never learn its lesson.

I think Jeb! absolutely wants it. I think it's a perverse mix of wanting to be on the same level of accomplishment as his father and brother, and a misguided sense of obligation as a Bush to "save" the country.

Yeah, he's miserable campaigning and has absolutely no natural talent for it, but I don't take that as a sign that he doesn't want it. The fact that he's still in the race despite clearly being miserable makes it even more obvious to me how badly he wants it - and expects it.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Explain.



Explain.

Crab's the one with an assertion that he didn't back up. When he bothers to do so then so will I. Until then, that's the response his assertion warrants.

But I will say that most dems are fairly inline with each other on most issues, its just a matter of what their most important issue is. We're not going to see a schizim over single issues, campaign finance isn't going to split the party because everyone basically agrees on it.
 
I think Jeb! absolutely wants it. I think it's a perverse mix of wanting to be on the same level of accomplishment as his father and brother, and a misguided sense of obligation as a Bush to "save" the country.

Yeah, he's miserable campaigning and has absolutely no natural talent for it, but I don't take that as a sign that he doesn't want it. The fact that he's still in the race despite clearly being miserable makes it even more obvious to me how badly he wants it - and expects it.

Jeb! doesn't want to be known as the loser of the family, especially when he was groomed to be ''the one'' (but his brother W beat him to it, lol)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom