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[Strakt]

https://www.polygon.com/2017/9/8/16267766/destiny-2-bright-engrams-worth-it

So why isn't this pay-to-win? The Gunsmith sells random rare-quality weapon and armor mods for 2,500 Glimmer each. Mods seem to be Destiny 2's Glimmer dump, so think of these as being similar in value to ammo synthesis from the first game.

You can get rare mods from bright engrams, but they're so readily available from the Gunsmith that spending money to get mods is completely unnecessary, and any advantage it confers is so slight as to be immaterial. You get tons of Glimmer as you play — and these mods are not the primary goal of your grind — so you'll get all you need in the course of pursuing your other goals.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Are you opinions in a loot crate?

 

[RaySpencer]

Thanks for all the info in the thread.

 

[Impeccable]

Thanks for the clarification, Polygon!

 

[HvySky]

Are you opinions in a loot crate?

Keep commenting and you might be lucky enough to roll the contents of the OP!

 

[Finaj]

It's still shitty business practices, P2W or not.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I see. So "pay for very slight advantage" is more accurate. OK.

 

[McDougles]

"Yes, these things drop items that give an advantage and you can pay to win those advantages, but because you also don't have to pay it's not pay to win."

Woof.

 

[Drencrom]

pLOLygon

 

[Some Nobody]

Thanks for all the info in the thread.

If the excerpts are keeping people from reading the whole article then people should stop doing excerpts.

 

[MomoPufflet]

Great summary and effort OP.

 

[Mushroomer25]

"Yes, these things drop items that give an advantage and you can pay to win those advantages, but because you also don't have to pay it's not pay to win."

Woof.

I mean, if the curve to earn the same boosts in-game is reasonable - it's fair to not call the game 'pay-to-win'. That phrase implies that payment is a prerequisite for success, which doesn't seem to be the case for Destiny 2.

 

[Strakt]

Great summary and effort OP.

Thanks man!

 

[EDarkness]

This article hurts my head. So it's not "pay to win", but the stuff you get can give some advantages in the game. Isn't that kind of the definition of "pay to win"? Or maybe they should say "pay to get a leg up on the competition"?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

"Yes, these things drop items that give an advantage and you can pay to win those advantages, but because you also don't have to pay it's not pay to win."

Woof.

Well you see, slight advantage doesn't mean you WIN...so you can't pay to WIN. You can only pay to improve your odds of winning.

or something.

very lawyerish.

 

[Data West]

Polygon is also planning a bunch of their content around destiny 2

 

[Colocho]

So it is definitely pay-to-win, gotcha.

 

[ViviOggi]

That's arguable depending on people's highly variable definition of 'p2w', but there's a much more interesting paragraph in this thing anyway. Let me help you out, OP.

BUNGIE RUINED COLLECTIONS TO SELL MORE BOXES
In Polygon's review-in-progress for Destiny 2, senior reporter Samit Sarkar describes the sequel game as "Destiny without all the bullshit." But let's be real, folks. Without bullshit, it wouldn't be Destiny. So here's some bullshit.

Bungie made some quality-of-life changes in the later Destiny expansions that collectors appreciated. The studio created kiosks in the Tower that stored your collections of spaceships, Sparrows and shaders.

Each item was unlocked in the kiosk, and you could grab one at any time once you earned it, so you didn't have to store things in your vault anymore. You could go and look at your collection of bikes and ships, and pick out whichever one you felt like riding. You could also recolor your armor at will to fit your mood.

But Bungie couldn't sell you boxes containing duplicates of items that you already own for $1.50 each if ships, shaders and Sparrows unlocked at a kiosk like they did in Destiny.

So the kiosks are gone, and the Sparrows, ships and shells you get from boxes are back to being inventory items. They can be dismantled into a new currency called Bright Dust, which you can use to purchase some of the other items in the bright engram loot table. Bright Dust is kind of like Overwatch credits, except that Overwatch recently cut way back on duplicate items in loot boxes, because duplicate items in loot boxes suck.

Shaders got the worst of it, though: Bungie turned them into consumables. I guess the idea was to put shaders in every bright engram without each color becoming useless duplicates of shaders that players had already unlocked. So now, if you want your armor to be pink today and neon green tomorrow, you're going to have to burn through your shaders every time.

Looking cool is obviously something players who buy cosmetic items care about, and Bungie just made it much more difficult and expensive to look cool. How could the studio have possibly thought players would be OK with this? Fans are furious, and rightly so.

The perfect illustration for the community's response to this would be the Salt Bae emote. But nobody has it because it costs a bonkers amount of money to unlock.

 

[ethomaz]

The thread that generated all the buzz was really an attempt to downplay the game without any actual information from the game.

I'm surprised an article gave to be made just to call it out.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Thanks for all the info in the thread.

Keep commenting and you might be lucky enough to roll the contents of the OP!

Looks like I hit the jackpot and got the contents.

 

[kiunchbb]

"Yes, these things drop items that give an advantage and you can pay to win those advantages, but because you also don't have to pay it's not pay to win."

Woof.

First step is denial....

 

[Vlade]

If the excerpts are keeping people from reading the whole article then people should stop doing excerpts.

Well, now I'm discussing whether the thread should provide some info or not, and leaving without knowing why polygon thinks so.

edit:
nm

 

[Steroyd]

I see so it's not pay to win, but pay to gain an advantage.

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

i've not seen anything yet to suggest it is P2W.

everyone is up in a roar about these bright engrams but you get them anyway each time you level. if you want more than the game gives you then you gotta pay. i don't see anyone getting worked up about loot boxes in Overwatch which is the same thing. you get a box each level but if you want more you can pay money for them.

 

[MomoPufflet]

Thanks man!

NP, you can get back to your full-throated defense of Activision and Bungie now.

 

[Aters]

If it affects gameplay, it is pay-to-win. Microtransaction should be limited to skins and nothing more.

 

[Strakt]

I see so it's not pay to win, but pay to gain an advantage.

Yea an advantage while leveling; those mods are irrelevant later on

 

[Strakt]

NP, you can get back to your full-throated defense of Activision and Bungie now.

Did you come in here to shit post because your life revolves around drama and negativity?

 

[ethomaz]

I see so it's not pay to win, but pay to gain an advantage.

The mods are shit level so how do you tranfer that to "advantage" is weird lol

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[Hispanic! At the Disco]

You get these "loot boxes" so easily in game after beating the story I felt like an idiot cuz i bought some. Waste of money, i got probably $15 worth just playing yesterday.

Edit: that doesnt make advantages buyable okay, no matter how small, but the misstep here is very small and doesnt really effect the game imo.

 

[Sora the Cat]

If these microtransactions are so useless why is Activision/Bungie putting them in the first place? Is it really worth all these bad publicity the game is getting because of it?

 

[Alucrid]

can anyone tell me when they encountered a time in destiny 2 where they felt the effects of this p2w or pay for advantage system in place?

 

[redcrayon]

From the article.

Part of the reason we hurried to get this article online is that there have been a lot of news stories ahead of the release of Destiny 2 that claim these are “pay-to-win” boxes because they contain useful rare-quality (blue) modifications for weapons and armor. When applied to gear, these modifications do things like change the elemental damage of energy weapons or make class abilities recharge more quickly.

While these items do affect gameplay, the worries that their inclusion in the boxes make Destiny 2 “pay-to-win” are overblown. Mods are useful, but players who don’t buy bright engrams should be able to get all they need in the course of powering up their Guardian.

So the items do affect gameplay, and allow the user to skip hours of grinding. So it is pay to win then, at least at the start.

 

[Zemm]

Could you imagine if Luke Smith was reviewing this game for 1up?

 

[EDarkness]

If these microtransactions are so useless why is Activision/Bungie putting them in the first place? Is it really worth all these bad publicity?

I'd be surprised if any of this was hurting their bottom line.

 

[rochellepaws]

i've not seen anything yet to suggest it is P2W.

everyone is up in a roar about these bright engrams but you get them anyway each time you level. if you want more than the game gives you then you gotta pay. i don't see anyone getting worked up about loot boxes in Overwatch which is the same thing. you get a box each level but if you want more you can pay money for them.

Many and many people got "worked up" about Overwatch being a full price game which also contained lootboxes. It became especially heinous during the first seasonal event as very nice items were only available during a timed window and weren't craftable with the currency so it gave strong incentive to buy.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

If these microtransactions are so useless why is Activision/Bungie putting them in the first place? Is it really worth all these bad publicity the game is getting because of it?

$$$$$$ that's why.

 

[Mushroomer25]

If these microtransactions are so useless why is Activision/Bungie putting them in the first place? Is it really worth all these bad publicity?

The reason the article proposes is that they fill out the loot boxes, making them feel like a better value than they actually are. But in the grand scheme of the game, those boosts aren't actually meaningful. You'll get far more just by playing through the main content.

 

[Zombie James]

No, Destiny 2 isn't pay-to-win

Once you’ve reached the level cap (20), you’ll get one bright engram each time you fill your experience bar. So you’ll get one for approximately every 90 minutes of gameplay while you’re doing strikes, Patrols, Public Events or Crucible matches.

You may be able to obtain all the possible drops from bright engrams for free — if you anticipate spending several hundred hours playing Destiny 2 over the coming months and years.

While these items do affect gameplay...

So, it's not pay-to-win but then he goes on to explain how it's pay-to-win. Good job, buddy.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

The issue isn't pay to win. It's locking previously universal use mechanics to single time use, primarily offering them in loot boxes, and giving no option to even buy them separately.

 

[ethomaz]

If these microtransactions are so useless why is Activision/Bungie putting them in the first place? Is it really worth all these bad publicity the game is getting because of it?

The lot boxes has exclusive emotes and weapon skins.

Anybody going to buy them wants the exotic/purple cosmetics.

 

[eizarus]

If these microtransactions are so useless why is Activision/Bungie putting them in the first place? Is it really worth all these bad publicity the game is getting because of it?

Same reason someone made pills containing gold leafs to make you shit gold. Because there's always someone who'll pay for it.

The lot boxes has exclusive emotes and weapon skins.

Wrong. I got Salty from a bright engram I got through leveling. Nice try though.

 

[Hispanic! At the Disco]

Many and many people got "worked up" about Overwatch being a full price game which also contained lootboxes. It became especially heinous during the first seasonal event as very nice items were only available during a timed window and weren't craftable with the currency so it gave strong incentive to buy.

Tbf, you can easily purchase better versions of the mods the microtransactions give you. I dont even think I want the stuff these engrams get me.

 

[tbm24]

So, it's not pay-to-win but then he goes on to explain how it's pay-to-win. Good job, buddy.

In what way do you win with this?

 

[ViviOggi]

Surely they won't ever put more gameplay-relevant content in loot boxes after having set the precedent right from the get-go ;-)

 

[Sora the Cat]

I'd be surprised if any of this was hurting their bottom line.

I know a lot of people who weren't going to buy the game because of this. Me included. I guess the money they get from this is way more of course.

 

[Psychoward]

Yeah, it's just pay a lot to play and have a slight acceleration.

 

[Hispanic! At the Disco]

In what way do you win with this?

You win weak versions of purchasable(in game money) mods to use after you beat the game. You also pay to win cosmetics.

 

[Striek]

Modern games always tweak the drop rates to sell more loot crates after launch so its status right now doesn't mean shit either way. They will make paying them more money the more attractive option than playing the game itself.