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[harSon]

The transparency is in the FAQ

That was added this afternoon Lol

 

[Littlefang]

The transparency is in the FAQ

First, this portion was added after Sony announced its interest in the project. Second, it does not indicate how much of the funds will come from external sources which is a huge problem with the overall integrity of the kickstarter.

 

[Alucrid]

That was added this afternoon Lol

And? Kickstarter is a fluid process.

My apologies I thought the ratio had been disclosed about the publisher funding vs. kickstarter funding but I was just going off what other people were saying. If they haven't disclosed this information than I do have the same qualms that I have with Shenmue.



First, this portion was added after Sony announced its interest in the project. Second, it does not indicate how much of the funds will come from external sources which is a huge problem with the overall integrity of the kickstarter.

How much of it? The rest.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

WHAT THE FUCK?

Yu has already said he will not compromise the story to rush the ending.

 

[WrenchNinja]

It is not like Sony will hold the IP, so what's the matter?

People are just concerned

 

[Littlefang]

And? Kickstarter is a fluid process.



How much of it? The rest.

But what is that amount? That will completely change what the game's ambitions are and whether a kickstarter was justified in the first place. If the game hasn't asked for enough money, they face diminishing the quality of the final product. If Sony has provided the brunt of the budget, why would the game need a kickstarter?

 

[Cat Party]

I don't see an issue with the general concern that Shenmue fans were not really being told anything about the game they were backing. Doesn't seem like there's a demand for the actual budget to be disclosed, but the instead the source of the funds.

Using a kickstarter to prove interest is probably a good thing, but it would be better for all if the backers who are putting their money down knew what the situation with outside financing was expected to be.

 

[xxracerxx]

But what is that amount? That will completely change what the game's ambitions are and whether a kickstarter was justified in the first place. If the game hasn't asked for enough money, they face diminishing the quality of the final product. If Sony has provided the brunt of the budget, why would the game need a kickstarter?

People have answered this question over and over, and you know it and chose to ignore those reasons.

 

[Dreamgazer]

Budget affects the size of the world, voice acting, animations, unique NPCs, number of quests, variety of environments, etc.

I gave you an exact number and you gave me a no good vague answer.
I don't see how you will do any better even if you have the actual number.

This isn't exactly the first Kickstarter where people are skeptical or inquisitive about what exactly is being promised. Why are people acting like this is "all of a sudden" an issue?

In the past people been skeptical or inquisitive about kickstarters because
1) There are doubts toward the amount requested amounts vs. actual budget needed to complete a kickstarer (ex: Don't trust someone who ask for 200K to do a FF7 remake.)

2) Signs of development issues/lack of update.

Item 1 isn't an issue cause both Sony and Shibuya Productions have stated they will help fund.

Item 2 isn't an issue right now cause development hasn't even started.

So why is Polygon all of a sudden identifying this as a "problem" kickstarter?

 

[Oersted]

"Like I said, you're allowed can say whatever you want. "

Thank you.

"But then everyone else also has the right to go "Who gives a fuck what this guy thinks?", "


1. Apparently, you do. 2. That also applies to your opinion. Lets see how you voice it.

"which is exactly what I, and everyone else are doing. It's everyone's job to convince everyone else why what they're saying matters, and Kuchera's point essentially boils down to "Other people spent their money on something I don't like the structure of, and I think that's bad." That's an incredibly dumb point that doesn't deserve to be taken seriously."

Indeed, that would be stupid. Have some citation?

" It's none of your, my, or Ben Kuchera's business what other people spend their money on. "

A Kickstarter is the definition of being of public interest. That applies to people who invest and those who don't have done so (yet).

"If a bunch of people spend their money on something that doesn't effect you in the slightest, why should I care about your opinion on the situation?"


It apparently needs clarification. It is totally fine you spent money on a Kickstarter. Noone is attacking you for that. People are just asking about the Kickstarter.

"Why should I care about what someone who has no stake in the project, and no investment in it thinks about how it's structured? "

Normally, because they raise valied points. If you choose to ignore regardless, its on you.

"Him being a journalist doesn't remove him from criticism of his points. "

I can't follow you there.

"It's not a problem because absolutely nobody was forced to put money into this project."


That is a strawman. And that is never how it works or will work. If someone asks the public for money on Kickstarter, the public has the freedom to ask who is involved, to what an extent and what happens with the money. Thats literally it.

" If anyone who donated wants to pull their money out they can for the next month and wait for the final release."


Correct.

 

[Alucrid]

People have answered this question over and over, and you know it and chose to ignore those reasons.

Oh, I won't answer then.

 

[PeskyToaster]

I don't believe a Kickstarter has to entail public disclosure of financials. People should withhold money until it's released if they are concerned but the beauty of Kickstarter is that it's a democracy. People voted and said they don't give a shit, they want Shenmue III.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I don't believe a Kickstarter has to entail public disclosure of financials. People should withhold money until it's released if they are concerned but the beauty of Kickstarter is that it's a democracy. People voted and said they don't give a shit, they want Shenmue III.

And that is the principal.

 

[Littlefang]

People have answered this question over and over, and you know it and chose to ignore those reasons.

Come on, gauging interest is not a good enough justification for a kickstarter if the game doesn't need the funds. You can decide that this is a good enough reason, I'm saying it's not for me.

I gave you an exact number and you gave me a no good vague answer.
I don't see how you will do any better even if you have the actual number.



In the past people been skeptical or inquisitive about kickstarters because
1) There are doubts toward the amount requested amounts vs. actual budget needed to complete a kickstarer (ex: Don't trust someone who ask for 200K to do a FF7 remake.)

2) Signs of development issues/lack of update.

Item 1 isn't an issue cause both Sony and Shibuya Productions have stated they will help fund.

Item 2 isn't an issue right now cause development hasn't even started.

So why is Polygon all of a sudden identifying this as a "problem" kickstarter?

1) is an issue because we don't know how much money Sony is providing. At this point the game has only asked for $2 million with an unknown external funding number for a game that can easily exceed that by quite a lot.

 

[JoeyJungle]

They probably have multiple potential funding sources that they aren't able to disclose because they're still in negotiations. For example, at $4m maybe Sony will fund them an additional $10m, or Sega will fund $5m and allow them to use Sega franchises that Suzuki has worked on in the past. I think it's every likely that everything is up in the air, and that the discussions and sources of potential funding aren't allowed to be mentioned, so he can't say anything.

 

[Oersted]

I don't believe a Kickstarter has to entail public disclosure of financials. People should withhold money until it's released if they are concerned but the beauty of Kickstarter is that it's a democracy. People voted and said they don't give a shit, they want Shenmue III.

A democracy where people are not allowed to voice their opinion outside of elections, might not be considered as one.

 

[Furoba]

But what is that amount? That will completely change what the game's ambitions are and whether a kickstarter was justified in the first place. If the game hasn't asked for enough money, they face diminishing the quality of the final product. If Sony has provided the brunt of the budget, why would the game need a kickstarter?

As has been repeated over and over, the main goal of doing this kickstarter was to gauge interest. If the kickstarter had failed, there would not be any external funding, and of course, no Shenmue III.

Other big kickstarters also had external funding, and those funds were not revealed either. How is this an issue?

The more successful the Shenmue 3 kickstarter, the more priority it will carry for Sony, Sega and any other external partner, which will give the title more exposure and end quality as a result.

Win-win? YES!

 

[Spaghetti]

lots of people in here looking to tell nearly 40,000 people how to spend their money

 

[BadAss2961]

Who is we? Which complaining? And why do some of you guys keep making driveby posts, which add nothing to the discussion?

What exactly is the discussion? A lack of information?

It's Kickstarter... Anyone who's done their homework knows the deal and the risks involved. But there's a number of factors that minimize those risks. This isn't a promise from unknown or unproven talent. It's Yu Suzuki. It's Shenmue III, and we know that Sony is involved in some capacity. Now with all the buzz this has generated, Sony's likely to put forth an effort to ensure that this thing comes to fruition -- their involvement means it's their reputation now too.

As a bonus, backers of this kickstarter are getting pre-orders on the cheap.

 

[Carl]

First, this portion was added after Sony announced its interest in the project. Second, it does not indicate how much of the funds will come from external sources which is a huge problem with the overall integrity of the kickstarter.

No it isn't

 

[Remachinate]

When the title includes the phrase "why that's a problem", it stops being journalism and becomes an editorial. The article was written to generate controversy and drama. Now there are posters here acting as though it's their right to review the game's budget and that there is something menacing going on because it hasn't been released.

Here's why it's problematic. Shenmue 1&2 set a baseline for the features, scope and overall quality of a proper installment in the series. When a sequel is announced, barring information to the contrary, Joe Fanboy is then led to believe that this sequel will meet this baseline, and contributes toward the Kickstarter based on that belief. However, the Kickstarter isn't intended to fund this level of quality on its own, but there's no assurances about the level of funding outside it.

2-3 years later, Joe Fanboy gets his copy of the game and learns that it's much scaled back version of what he had in his head, because outside funding was lower than was needed to meet that baseline, and is ultimately let down. Now you can say, "well that's the risk of Kickstarter", and to some extent you'd be right, but there's a difference between pitching a Kickstarter in good faith that you'll have enough funds to deliver and then development falls short due to unforeseen issues; and pitching in bad faith because you don't have all the funding locked down to deliver on your implicit promise.

I'm not saying Shenmue 3 definitely falls into the latter, I'm saying right now we don't know, and that's a problem because many people may be backing based on false assumptions. Consumers deserve to know exactly what they're getting into when they outlay cash.

 

[superseohyun]

A democracy where people are not allowed to voice their opinion outside of elections, might not be considered as one.

Dont worry. Nobody has been able to stop "concerned" people from posting. They merely question the neccessarity of it.

 

[Elfforkusu]

They probably have multiple potential funding sources that they aren't able to disclose because they're still in negotiations. For example, at $4m maybe Sony will fund them an additional $10m, or Sega will fund $5m and allow them to use Sega franchises that Suzuki has worked on in the past. I think it's every likely that everything is up in the air, and that the discussions and sources of potential funding aren't allowed to be mentioned, so he can't say anything.

Exactly. The final $$$s of the kickstarter will be one part of the negotiation.

In general, with a game of this scope, there had better be other sources of funding. Luckily Yu Suzuki knows how the "game" works. Maybe somebody should clue Polygon in?

Spoiler

But honestly, I'm sure they know, and just write faux-outrage articles to get clicks.

 

[Oersted]

As has been repeated over and over, the main goal of doing this kickstarter was to gauge interest. If the kickstarter had failed, there would not be any external funding, and of course, no Shenmue III.

Was that clarified from the beginning?

Other big kickstarters also had external funding, and those funds were not revealed either. How is this an issue?

Which ones? Were they upfront about it? If not, why was it okay? Or was it not okay?

 

[ZettaiSeigi]

Come on, gauging interest is not a good enough justification for a kickstarter if the game doesn't need the funds. You can decide that this is a good enough reason, I'm saying it's not for me.

But what if it's good enough for Sony to back the project? Who are you to say otherwise? It is good enough reason for them to inject money into it and help in its development and marketing. You haven't heard plenty of die-hard fans who waited for so long complaining about how everything is happening in the background. Why? Because they only want the game made so they can finally play it.

So it's not good enough justification for you? Okay, that's fine. You didn't give a cent and nobody is holding it against you. So why not just move on? It's not your place to tell other people how to spend their money. If you're so against the idea of Kickstarter, maybe you should setup a rival platform where people behind the projects are required to divulge every detail to their backers. After all, be the change you want to see, right?

 

[Alucrid]

Here's why it's problematic. Shenmue 1&2 set a baseline for the features, scope and overall quality of a proper installment in the series. When a sequel is announced, barring information to the contrary, Joe Fanboy is then led to believe that this sequel will meet this baseline, and contributes toward the Kickstarter based on that belief. However, the Kickstarter isn't intended to fund this level of quality on its own, but there's no assurances about the level of funding outside it.

2-3 years later, Joe Fanboy gets his copy of the game and learns that it's much scaled back version of what he had in his head, because outside funding was lower than was needed to meet that baseline, and is ultimately let down. Now you can say, "well that's the risk of Kickstarter", and to some extent you'd be right, but there's a difference between pitching a Kickstarter in good faith that you'll have enough funds to deliver and then development falls short due to unforeseen issues; and pitching in bad faith because you don't have all the funding locked down to deliver on your implicit promise.

I'm not saying Shenmue 3 definitely falls into the latter, I'm saying right now we don't know, and that's a problem because many people may be backing based on false assumptions. Consumers deserve to know exactly what they're getting into when they outlay cash.

That's literally impossible to do due to the nature of game development. Hell, any sort of development. Look at Double Fine's game, guess how many people knew it was going to be split in to two parts during their funding? Probably fucking no one. Because you can't. You're asking for the impossible here. That's the thing about Kickstarter, you're not paying X to get Y, you're donating X on the promise of being delivered Y.

 

[MetatronM]

Anybody with a brain would know that $2 million is not enough to "fund development" for a game like Shenmue. That in and of itself should be all the transparency you need to make an educated decision about whether you wanted to pledge money towards that or not.

 

[superseohyun]

Here's why it's problematic. Shenmue 1&2 set a baseline for the features, scope and overall quality of a proper installment in the series. When a sequel is announced, barring information to the contrary, Joe Fanboy is then led to believe that this sequel will meet this baseline, and contributes toward the Kickstarter based on that belief. However, the Kickstarter isn't intended to fund this level of quality on its own, but there's no assurances about the level of funding outside it.

2-3 years later, Joe Fanboy gets his copy of the game and learns that it's much scaled back version of what he had in his head, because outside funding was lower than was needed to meet that baseline, and is ultimately let down. Now you can say, "well that's the risk of Kickstarter", and to some extent you'd be right, but there's a difference between pitching a Kickstarter in good faith that you'll have enough funds to deliver and then development falls short due to unforeseen issues; and pitching in bad faith because you don't have all the funding locked down to deliver on your implicit promise.

I'm not saying Shenmue 3 definitely falls into the latter, I'm saying right now we don't know, and that's a problem because many people may be backing based on false assumptions. Consumers deserve to know exactly what they're getting into when they outlay cash.

They dont. Not when they choose to outlay the cash despite some uncertainty because they trust Yu Suzuki.

 

[MetatronM]

Here's why it's problematic. Shenmue 1&2 set a baseline for the features, scope and overall quality of a proper installment in the series. When a sequel is announced, barring information to the contrary, Joe Fanboy is then led to believe that this sequel will meet this baseline, and contributes toward the Kickstarter based on that belief. However, the Kickstarter isn't intended to fund this level of quality on its own, but there's no assurances about the level of funding outside it.

2-3 years later, Joe Fanboy gets his copy of the game and learns that it's much scaled back version of what he had in his head, because outside funding was lower than was needed to meet that baseline, and is ultimately let down. Now you can say, "well that's the risk of Kickstarter", and to some extent you'd be right, but there's a difference between pitching a Kickstarter in good faith that you'll have enough funds to deliver and then development falls short due to unforeseen issues; and pitching in bad faith because you don't have all the funding locked down to deliver on your implicit promise.

I'm not saying Shenmue 3 definitely falls into the latter, I'm saying right now we don't know, and that's a problem because many people may be backing based on false assumptions. Consumers deserve to know exactly what they're getting into when they outlay cash.

You are not a consumer when you pledge to a Kickstarter. You're an investor. You're investing in somebody's business with the speculative hope that you are going to get something of value to yourself out of it in the end, whatever that may be.

Like every other type of investment on the planet, there is always the risk that you do not actually get what you hoped for in the end.

 

[xxracerxx]

Was that clarified from the beginning?

Right in the Kickstarter text:

If we do not reach our funding goal, Shenmue 3 will not go forward.

 

[qualitydisc]

Since when do we know the budget of any game project, especially one that was announced 3 days ago?

 

[DeepEnigma]

You are not a consumer when you pledge to a Kickstarter. You're an investor. You're investing in somebody's business with the speculative hope that you are going to get something of value to yourself out of it in the end, whatever that may be.

Like every other type of investment on the planet, there is always the risk that you do not actually get what you hoped for in the end.

Agreed.

I love how people are also getting an economics and business class in here as well.

 

[border]

I gave you an exact number and you gave me a no good vague answer.
I don't see how you will do any better even if you have the actual number.

I'm sorry -- how am I supposed to know how exactly the budget and dev time will be divided up between multiple in-game mechanics and systems? That is Yu Suzuki's call. I don't think it's exactly crazy to assume that the bigger the budget, the closer the game gets to a true modernization of Shenmue. The smaller the budget, the closer it gets to a Yakuza or small-scale exploration game like Gone Home or Vanishing of Ethan Carter.

Item 1 isn't an issue cause both Sony and Shibuya Productions have stated they will help fund.

Item 2 isn't an issue right now cause development hasn't even started.

Sony cancels or scales back even games that they are publishing.....and they aren't even publishing Shenmue. They've only vaguely admitted financial association with Ys Net when pressed in interviews.

Can the game withstand a rocky development cycle? DoubleFine had to go back to the well and ask for more money a couple times......22cans basically just cut promised features and dived into Free2Play bullshit to get their game out the door. And those were both helmed by industry veterans.

Shenmue ends up being something of a special case specifically because they're asking for a really tiny amount of money in comparison to what games like Shenmue 1&2 were.

 

[Oersted]

lots of people in here looking to tell nearly 40,000 people how to spend their money

It would help the discussion if you guys wouldn't take this so personal. But I can understand the extreme emotional investment, so to clarify: this isn't about attacking or telling people what to spend money.

It is about finding out on what exactly money was spent on and by whomelse, to what an extent. Thats literally it.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Who is responsible for the amazing features on polygon? I know for FUCKING SURE Ben kuchera has nothing to do with it. He's so utterly talentless. Pretty sure gies has nothing to do with them either. Not to put them in the same league. I can tolerate gies but kuchera really does seem to have a genuine contempt for his audience. He genuinely seems to hate video games and should probably be using his bad to mediocre writing skills to write click bait articles for actual tabloids or something

 

[xxracerxx]

It is about finding out on what exactly money was spent on and by whomelse, to what an extent. Thats literally it.

Well...they haven't spent any of the money yet and will not for another 29 days and change.

 

[Alucrid]

It would help the discussion if you guys wouldn't take this so personal. But I can understand the extreme emotional investment, so to clarify: this isn't about attacking or telling people what to spend money.

It is about finding out on what exactly money was spent on and by whomelse, to what an extent. Thats literally it.

Because that information is available three days after the project launches.

 

[Infernostew]

It is about finding out on what exactly money was spent on and by whomelse, to what an extent. Thats literally it.

Why have a discussion on information we are not entitled to and are never going to find out? All we know is the kickstarter money is going towards game development and additional funds will be raised by funding partners.

 

[Elfforkusu]

It would help the discussion if you guys wouldn't take this so personal. But I can understand the extreme emotional investment, so to clarify: this isn't about attacking or telling people what to spend money.

It is about finding out on what exactly money was spent on and by whomelse, to what an extent. Thats literally it.

Somewhat impossible to prevent it from becoming personal when the negativity hurts the campaign, ostensibly lowering funding, ostensibly leading to a lesser game.

Just so you can understand. It's infuriating that at day 3 this is the big discussion. This is goddamn Yu Suzuki we're talking about!

 

[Oersted]

Right in the Kickstarter text:

You do not unterstand. It is not clarified that they need the money for the development or just to show the real investors that there is interest. The wording makes it sound like the former, while it is actually the latter.

Well...they haven't spent any of the money yet and will not for another 29 days and change.

They? Sony, or who are you talking about?

 

[Mxrz]

People want a game. Game can't get made. Game Maker finds a way. People jump in to support it, will get copies of the game. Company sees interest. Jumps in too. Game is now getting made when we never thought it would.

Not entirely sure the problem is with Shenmue there, Polygon.

 

[dark_inferno]

I think it if this bad talk goes on we might not even get Shenmue 3 at all.

"Why does Sony announce a Kickstarter?"
"Why doesnt Sony fund this?"
"Why is it only 2 million?"
Etc

It gets to a point where it seems that nobody is happy that we finally get something that many of us ever wanted.

 

[xxracerxx]

You do not unterstand. It is not clarified that they need the money for the development or just to show the real investors that there is interest. The wording makes it sound like the former, while it is actually the latter.

Potato potatoe

They? Sony, or who are you talking about?

The development team (aka not Sony).

 

[bmcphail2008]

That's literally impossible to do due to the nature of game development. Hell, any sort of development. Look at Double Fine's game, guess how many people knew it was going to be split in to two parts during their funding? Probably fucking no one. Because you can't. You're asking for the impossible here. That's the thing about Kickstarter, you're not paying X to get Y, you're donating X on the promise of being delivered Y.

Actually, it's not impossible at all. Modern games are scoped in massive detail from budgets to time required to features down to how many and what kind of staffing will be required at each stage. While there are often changes at the margins, it's definitely not impossible for someone, particularly a very, very experienced producer and an experienced production team, to estimate with a great degree of certainty what the scope of a game will be and what resources are needed to get there. If you were a Double Fine backer that regularly watched the behind the scenes, I think you can really see where things went off the rails as far as scope and budget and while Double Fine is an experienced developer, I think they had a significant lack of discipline and maturity in management that resulted in some very poor decisions along the way.

My major concern as a backer of Shenmue is that I got swept up in the hype initially and now I'm starting to think logically about what I want in a Shenmue game. I suppose I want something that's just as large in scope as the two previous games. My question now is whether the millions being raised on Kickstarter and whatever funding is coming from other sources can really deliver a game of that scope. I think it's fair to expect someone accepting millions of dollars from the general gaming public through Kickstarter to provide some type of cohesive vision of what they will deliver if X number of dollars are raised. I haven't seen what that vision is and I would hope it is fleshed out before the campaign ends. The fact that other backers don't seem interested in that level of transparency is disturbing, particularly given how badly some Kickstarters have ended up even when started by people with really good intentions.

 

[Portugeezer]

There is plenty of time for that, don't worry.

 

[oceanskie]

This shouldn't be a thread.

That is a trash article from polygon.

They are pretty much a low class tabloid pretending to be hipster

 

[Spaghetti]

It would help the discussion if you guys wouldn't take this so personal. But I can understand the extreme emotional investment, so to clarify: this isn't about attacking or telling people what to spend money.

It is about finding out on what exactly money was spent on and by whomelse, to what an extent. Thats literally it.

you are literally telling me how to spend my money for something i've waited 14 years for but casting doubts on its validity.

you don't get to do that. you don't get to do that to any of the near 40,000 people who in two days have made this kickstarter smash records.

you don't care about us. you do not have our best interests in mind.

neither do sony, or sega, or ys.net, but this kickstarter is giving us a product we have wanted for years. and we are paying for it, willingly.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Here's why it's problematic. Shenmue 1&2 set a baseline for the features, scope and overall quality of a proper installment in the series. When a sequel is announced, barring information to the contrary, Joe Fanboy is then led to believe that this sequel will meet this baseline, and contributes toward the Kickstarter based on that belief. However, the Kickstarter isn't intended to fund this level of quality on its own, but there's no assurances about the level of funding outside it.

2-3 years later, Joe Fanboy gets his copy of the game and learns that it's much scaled back version of what he had in his head, because outside funding was lower than was needed to meet that baseline, and is ultimately let down. Now you can say, "well that's the risk of Kickstarter", and to some extent you'd be right, but there's a difference between pitching a Kickstarter in good faith that you'll have enough funds to deliver and then development falls short due to unforeseen issues; and pitching in bad faith because you don't have all the funding locked down to deliver on your implicit promise.

I'm not saying Shenmue 3 definitely falls into the latter, I'm saying right now we don't know, and that's a problem because many people may be backing based on false assumptions. Consumers deserve to know exactly what they're getting into when they outlay cash.

The mistake you're making here is drawing parallels between buying a product and putting money forward for a Kickstarter. They're two different things. When you back a Kickstarter project you're investing in a concept/business. You're not buying anything and have absolutely zero consumer rights.

 

[Oersted]

Because that information is available three days after the project launches.

Launching a project with a big lack of information is normally an issue.

Why have a discussion on information we are not entitled to and are never going to find out? All we know is the kickstarter money is going towards game development and additional funds will be raised by funding partners.

Why are you not feeling entitled about having information for the project you invested in? That is standard among Investors.

Somewhat impossible to prevent it from becoming personal when the negativity hurts the campaign, ostensibly lowering funding, ostensibly leading to a lesser game.

Just so you can understand. It's infuriating that at day 3 this is the big discussion. This is goddamn Yu Suzuki we're talking about!

I can relate and understand. But you know, just being upfront would have solved/prevented the issue.

The mistake you're making here is drawing parallels between buying a product and putting money forward for a Kickstarter. They're two different things. When you back a Kickstarter project you're investing in a concept/business. You're not buying anything and have absolutely zero consumer rights.

Investor rights, look them up.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

"Like I said, you're allowed can say whatever you want. "

Thank you.

"But then everyone else also has the right to go "Who gives a fuck what this guy thinks?", "


1. Apparently, you do. 2. That also applies to your opinion. Lets see how you voice it.

"which is exactly what I, and everyone else are doing. It's everyone's job to convince everyone else why what they're saying matters, and Kuchera's point essentially boils down to "Other people spent their money on something I don't like the structure of, and I think that's bad." That's an incredibly dumb point that doesn't deserve to be taken seriously."

Indeed, that would be stupid. Have some citation?

" It's none of your, my, or Ben Kuchera's business what other people spend their money on. "

A Kickstarter is the definition of being of public interest. That applies to people who invest and those who don't have done so (yet).

"If a bunch of people spend their money on something that doesn't effect you in the slightest, why should I care about your opinion on the situation?"


It apparently needs clarification. It is totally fine you spent money on a Kickstarter. Noone is attacking you for that. People are just asking about the Kickstarter.

"Why should I care about what someone who has no stake in the project, and no investment in it thinks about how it's structured? "

Normally, because they raise valied points. If you choose to ignore regardless, its on you.

"Him being a journalist doesn't remove him from criticism of his points. "

I can't follow you there.

"It's not a problem because absolutely nobody was forced to put money into this project."


That is a strawman. And that is never how it works or will work. If someone asks the public for money on Kickstarter, the public has the freedom to ask who is involved, to what an extent and what happens with the money. Thats literally it.

" If anyone who donated wants to pull their money out they can for the next month and wait for the final release."


Correct.

1) You don't have to care about what I think. You have the right to not give a shit what I think. That's fine. Again, you could ignore me, just as Kuchera could ignore this Kickstarter and move on with his life, since doing so wouldn't change his life in any way, shape or form.

2) That's what he's implying by saying that the Shenmue 3 budget being a mystery is a problem. He's saying that something that has nothing to do with him is bad, even though he has no involvement in it, and it effects him in no way whatsoever. He can have that opinion, but everyone else can also not give a shit about said opinion based on a combination of his, and his company's history of shoddy work, and the fact that said problem wouldn't effect him either way. He's voicing a personal issue about the situation, an opinion, not a fact. And every one is saying "Why would we care about your personal opinion on the situation when you're not involved?"

3) A Kickstarter is not public interest. A Kickstarter only effects people who donate to said Kickstarter and since said Kickstarter is an entertainment product, that turns the Kickstarter into an economic interest. It does not effect the general public whatsoever, because every person has the choice to ignore said Kickstarter and move on with their life with absolutely no repercussion.

4) People can ask about the details of the Kickstarter all they want, but when they start implying that something about said Kickstarter is a problem, everyone has the right to ask why anyone should care why said person thinks it's a problem, especially if said "Problem" will never effect him in any way whatsoever if he just ignored it. It would be no different then if I got on Twitter and ranted about my buddy buying a new car I didn't like. The new car doesn't effect me in any way. It's not my money being spent on the car. Him buying the car won't damage my life in any way. Even if I think my buddy got screwed on the price, or paid for things relating to the car I would see as a waste, if he is happy with said car purchase, it's not my place to go around telling people what he bought is a problem.

Therefore, him buying the car, and the car itself, are not in any way, a problem. I may personally have a problem with the car, but my friend would be fully in his rights to say "Why the fuck do you care so much that I bought a car you don't like?"

5) The whole "The public has the right to ask who is involved." when it comes to donators is true. The part that is not true, is the idea that you have to be told, and that not knowing is some kind of factual blemish on the project itself. If it were, the Kickstarter would be taken down and would have never been funded in the first place because they refuse to give the public this information. "The right" and "I think it would be better if they would tell us..." are two separate things. If you do not like the way said project is set up, you do not have to pledge, but you, in no way, have any "Right" to this information.

Also, I saw your point about investors rights at the bottom of the last page, and it should be noted that Kickstarter backers are donators, not investors. They do not get the same rights as investors.