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[Obscuritas]

I thought we decided not to use the words "next generations" anymore, since this and Neo scream "cross generations" over all the place.

Not really, in the scenario you quoted, as developers will need to target to an ever moving common denominator situation that gets worse with the reduced time between iterations. From a few years of cross gen titles to a never ending cross gen titles period.

That's my fear too. Practically we'll spend more in order to get less, compared to the old traditional hardware cycle. The downsides of PC without the benefits.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Assuming now that the leaked Neo docs are legit then what of the dev kits that went out recently being returned in January 2017 that DF mentioned? Also DF mentioned that the docs ask devs not to show the dev kit...why unless it is housed in an early retail box versus a nondescript rectangle box like the PS4 dev kit?

I'm now questioning everything! Way too much detail (and contradictions) in the leaks and only 6 months left to launch this year and yet nothing official/confirmed.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

Yeah, see this Beyond3d post vindicated by the No Man Sky news appeared today:

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1916406/

Rumor from a friend working in retail and had a meeting with a Sony rep

Sony have a more precise idea about the next Xbox announcement at E3 and release just after E3

A non announced exclusive game will be release for end of year.

No Man Sky is not coming next month and delay until at least August.

No PS4 Neo this year, PSVR is the end of year product.


Edit: he didn't precise if it is Xbox One slim or Xbox Next

I think they are going also for the upper power next year. Knowing Sony they will never launch an underpowered console knowing beforehand what the competition has. Who knows, maybe the leaked docs with Neo specs was a controlled leakage to mislead MS.

He said this too:

From what Sony knows of the next Xbox, it will be a very good product and as good as anything Phil Spencer has done.

The Sony rep just told the next Xbox product will be announced at E3 and be available just after E3 like 360 slim and it will follow the 180° politics Phil Spencer has done since he took the command.

He never said if it is Xbox One slim or Xbox Next... But it was a well hidden project...

 

[NullPointer]

Some folks will inquire, but for the most part people don't judge tech powerhouse games on how they look on Medium and Low, they talk about the game at its max potential or near it. If they launch an Xbox more powerful than the strongest PSX, I would expect conversations here and on other sites to center around PS4K and Scorpio.

That's exactly what would happen, and already has.

 

[SPCTRE]

Console War...s never change... except when they do?

 

[darkinstinct]

Don't be so touchy about it lol.

Point is, the PS4 Neo is releasing this year as far as we know so its specs are in line with that. I actually think the Scorpio lines up in exactly the same performance bracket for its time if it releases end of 2017.

By that time AMD Vega will be old news and we'll be close to Navi GPUs which will pack around 12+ tflops. Scorpio will look extremely underpowered compared to the high-end at the time.

I wouldn't count on Neo coming this year. I think the AMD hardware releasing this year is the slim Xbox, the two next year are Neo and Xbox One 2. And Nintendo goes Tegra/Arm for both console and handheld (easy scaling).

 

[chromatic9]

And 6 Tflops is what, a Titan X? A $1,200 card! Colour me sceptical.

.

No, you need to use AMD specs. Radeon 290X/390X which have been out for 1-2 years are 5.6-5.9 tflops which are based on 2014 specs which sell for around 350-400$. This AMD ~6tflop spec is going to be a $250-300 part soon.

Nvidia performance is around 4 tflops in this range of 290/390x cards.

Fury X from 2015, AMD's most powerful card right now is 8 tflops and that is in the Nvidia 6tflops TitanX/980ti range. Plus you're getting doubly carried away here, you mention a silly Titan X price at $1200 when you simply need to look at the 980ti which is 6flops at half the price.

 

[Xando]

Hope they not only launch a new console but pay some attention to that huge country europe

 

[SaucyJack]

I am not saying that just because X they can do Y.
There are many factors... however, for arguments sake (and this is just for arguments sakes) that one day Satya Nadella wakes up and thinks that Xbox should be the most awesomest videogames platform ever, then there is the potential to throw lots of money into Xbox.

I remember meeting with J Allard at X02 in Seville and we talked abit about the financial aspect of Xbox (when MS was bleeding money just to establish the brand) and he said that they had no problem continuing doing that for 10-15 years if that was what it would take.

Now, MS has different leadership now and the question for MS is, how important is Xbox to the whole Windows ecosystem? The more important, the more resources will be steared that way..

There you go. That is the question.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Hope they not only launch a new console but pay some attention to that huge country europe

Not sure if serious.jpg

 

[Maximilian E.]

Ah yes. They are losing because they chose to lose otherwise their infinite warchest means they can win. I mean look at Windows phone. OG xbox was anything but a successful product too.

They "lost" because they were not focused. MS were all over the place with Xbox One. Trying to get the TV-content angle, forcing Kinect2 into everybody when even they did not use it to the fullest extent, the whole digital only debacle..

I think that much of what MS wanted to do with Xbox One "could" have been more succesfull if MS would have released a 3TF machine instead of the 1.23 TF. Yeah, MS would have either taken a loss or have sold the machine a bit more expensive but the power angle would have persuaded many more people..(at least I think so).

There is a quote from Gladiator:

I think he knows what Rome is. Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted. Take away their freedom and still they'll roar. The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate, it's the sand of the coliseum. He'll bring them death - and they will love him for it

People would have accepted Xbox Ones original plans if it was a 3TF+ machine.
But perhaps not considering their "lack" of focus,

Oh, and MS mobile push.. TOTALLY lack of focus, that is why they lost. But as you can see.

 

[gofreak]

Jaguar is near 100 Gflops in consoles. At 2,1 Ghz is not too far from that. Not a lot of flops to make a difference in the flops metric.

Yeah, but if it's a zen cpu, it might be double that?

And the range per JSchreier is 5-6Tflops which is the other part of the equation that is new to me overnight.

If it's 'over 4x Xbox One' that's presumably less than 5x ... '6Tflops' may be just a neat rounding with the CPU included.

So depending on which end of the range of 5-6Tflops and which end of the range of '4x the Xbox One' we're talking about, the difference might not be quite as flattering as the headline comparisons being made by Polygon/AGies.

i.e. it could well be a 5-5.5Tflop GPU vs a 4-4.5Tflop GPU - a ~1Tflop or ~25% difference on the GPU side rather ~2Tflop (~50%)

I guess the spec isn't finalised yet, but the numbers being presented leave a little bit of a window of vagueness over how exactly it will compare.

 

[Doffen]

Ah yes. They are losing because they chose to lose otherwise their infinite warchest means they can win. I mean look at Windows phone. OG xbox was anything but a successful product too.

I'm pretty sure that Uncharted 4 had more marketing in mainland Europe than any Xbox One games combined. Lumia 950 just recently started to run ads here in Norway, only 5 months after launch, while there's been iPhone 6S ads running since November.

You can't expect consumers to buy your product if they don't know it exist. Preferably you want your product to be top-of-mind.

 

[justsomeguy]

He said this too:

Hah, imagine if they called it the Xbox 180.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

But you also get games on PC you can't play on Playstation. MS doesn't really care if you buy the Xbox hardware and play their games or do it on your PC. Software is where the money is.
It's basically not PS/XBox/PC anymore but PS/PC. You are free to buy the hardware prebuilt for you but you don't have to. I don't see how this is confusing at all.
The thing is that many people don't want to build their own PC and you have to take care of that the hardware runs well and is powerful enough to be able to play all the games while with the MS hardware it takes care for you for that.

That is a very small market. In any case, you can just as easily buy a pre-built PC and plug your Xbox controller into that. Are you seriously telling me that is too hard for the vast majority of people?

So I ask again, what is the selling point of this console other than slightly easier accessability? No unique games, not the most powerful, borrowed VR support, and all of that with all the disadvantages versus an open PC system where you can install Steam, Origin etc and upgrade yourself. This thing could be dead in the water if they don't tread carefully with the marketing, as people will quickly realise they can get a much better deal buying their own SFF PC.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I would say this is not a one-chip APU, too much hot from the GPU part to be an APU. It could be a SOC-like APU with Zen cpu and HBM2 memory on an interposer. Like the one rumored months ago.

Roadmap is old with the PS4 using Polaris GDDR5 early 2017 and the XB1 using Vega and HBM2 late 2017.

TDP and efficiency determines performance with PS4 about 4TF and XB1 about 6 TF.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

Bah, rumors.

Either ways more or less powerful in a iterative console new brave world won't mean much.
From MS then with this new W10 policy, will be very interesting to see if the xbox will still have a mass market to sell to.

E3 is coming....

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Maybe people are being more negative about the Xbox Scorpio because they see it as largely pointless. As you say. you can build your own PC or buy one that is much more powerful and play every single one of its games, probably for cheaper prices. In this sense, MS's strategy is a confusing one.

With the PS4/Neo, you know you are getting a batch of top-tier AAA exclusives like Bloodborne, Uncharted 4, GoW etc that you cannot play anywhere else. You can't build a PC to play these games. You also won't be able to play any of the many exclusive PS VR titles Sony has in the works.

On the other hand, MS are trying to team up with Occulus and get their VR games on Xbox Scorpio as well. Again, what's the point when you can play them better on PC with higher settings.

Because the convenience of buying a single box is what many millions of people want? Also not sure about the argument here with MS games being on Windows making the Xbox pointless - they're serving two audiences. PC gamers who don't want an Xbox and gamers who don't want a big rig.

Also would you prefer Gears 4 wasn't on PC? Wouldn't it be good business for Sony to release a game or two on Steam?

 

[kraspkibble]

well i think i'll pass on the XB1 slim and get the XBS next year.

definitely picking up a PS4N though.

 

[Camp Freddie]

God only knows what'll really happen, but it's clear that MS want to shit all over any hype around Neo's launch.

Being first to market isn't always a good idea when your competitor is whispering, "Just wait a few months and we'll show you something even better!"
That's part of what killed the Dreamcast, since everyone was just waiting to see what Sony would do.

I wonder what MS are targeting with those specs though. 4K30? or just 1080p60 with a bit more headroom for post-processing effects compared to the Neo?

 

[Makikou]

TL;DR Buy a GTX 1070/1080 and it'll last longer than these consoles that seem to be pushed out all the time now.

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah, but if it's a zen cpu, it might be double that?

And the range per JSchreier is 5-6Tflops which is the other part of the equation that is new to me overnight.

If it's 'over 4x Xbox One' that's presumably less than 5x ... '6Tflops' may be just a neat rounding with the CPU included.

So depending on which end of the range of 5-6Tflops and which end of the range of '4x the Xbox One' we're talking about, the difference might not be quite as flattering as the headline comparisons being made.

i.e. it could well be a 5-5.5Tflop GPU vs a 4-4.5Tflop GPU - a ~1Tflop or ~25% difference on the GPU side rather ~2Tflop (~50%)

I guess the spec isn't finalised yet, but the numbers being presented leave a little bit of a window of vagueness over how exactly it will compare.

Both Sony and MS will be pushing to get the most performance out of the smaller node at an acceptable price (heavily impacted by yield). The result with XB1/PS4 was a very similar die size, with MS being hamstrung by the area reserved for embedded ram. So I don't see much different this time around - both dies may be a similar size but this time would provide similar power assuming MS removes the embedded ram and works around it.

The wildcard is the timing. The new nose should mature over the course of 2017 and some big die GPUs will come out on that process. So waiting 6 months could allow a bigger die for similar cost.

 

[c0de]

That is a very small market. In any case, you can just as easily buy a pre-built PC and plug your Xbox controller into that. Are you seriously telling me that is too hard for the vast majority of people?

So I ask again, what is the selling point of this console other than slightly easier accessability? No unique games, not the most powerful, borrowed VR support, and all of that with all the disadvantages versus an open PC system where you can install Steam, Origin etc and upgrade yourself. This thing could be dead in the water if they don't tread carefully with the marketing, as people will quickly realise they can get a much better deal buying their own SFF PC.

People could've done that since ages. There are way more reasons to go PC instead of consoles besides power but this forum seldom covers it.
Why would you buy a PS4? For a few exclusives? Are they worth spending so much money for the hardware *and* the games? Because you could build yourself a PC that plays every 3rd party way better than the PS4 can.
I don't see how this conversation will come to conclusive end as your opinion is already set in stone while I think everything can happen in the future and I am eager to see how it will turn out and not call doom over something that is a new approach.
But as I said, perhaps it takes some time to realize that console wars are over like generations are over, once and for all.
People are getting more freedom to fulfill their gaming needs than they ever had before. This should be only a positive thing for gamers in general, in my opinion.

 

[_Legacy_]

I wonder how much the new Xbox consoles will cost, I'll buy either way. I hope we get to see something at E3.

 

[jelly]

God only knows what'll really happen, but it's clear that MS want to shit all over any hype around Neo's launch.

Being first to market isn't always a good idea when your competitor is whispering, "Just wait a few months and we'll show you something even better!"
That's part of what killed the Dreamcast, since everyone was just waiting to see what Sony would do.

I wonder what MS are targeting with those specs though. 4K30? or just 1080p60 with a bit more headroom for post-processing effects compared to the Neo?

Whatever the devs want to do. I hope they don't waste the power on 4K all the time though. 1440p would be a sweet upgrade with amazing visuals.

 

[LostDonkey]

Yeah Xbox is getting sold, put money towards a 1080 I think. The wait until the end of June will be painful but worth it.

 

[justsomeguy]

Because the convenience of buying a single box is what many millions of people want?

I legit don't understand why people can't get their heads around this.

I'm a hardcore tecchie, I love tinkering with gadgets and machines. I always custom build my PCs.

Yet I will be there *day one* for a console launch because I just love the convenience, all-in packaging, and no dicking around with driver updates, incompatibilities, and so on. I imported an OG Xbox from the states. I was up at 4am to queue for my 360 and being over the moon when I got a Premium. I remember the joy of home delivery for my Xbox One, hah.

Also not sure about the argument here with MS games being on Windows making the Xbox pointless - they're serving two audiences. PC gamers who don't want an Xbox and gamers who don't want a big rig.

Right. This is the one where I understand it being harder for people to get their heads around:

"LOL Microsoft if you do that I don't need to buy an Xbox, I'll just use my PC".

That's the whole point of what Phil Spencer is doing. If you're a Windows 10 gamer then you're a Microsoft customer, using a Microsoft product and the Microsoft store (for the MS-published games at least). Microsoft see this as a net positive, supporting their #1 product (Windows) and cementing customer loyalty / use there even if it "costs" them a console sale. Hence why the much-mocked MAUs are more interesting than sold-through console numbers going forward.

The big elephant in the room for me is Xbox Live Gold. Could we be seeing a bomba whereby multiplayer becomes free on console at E3, and Gold gets rebranded as a "value add" for those who want the free games and discounts - and comes to PC too? (Xbox Live Prime?!) IMO the value proposition is there, I'd certainly keep paying for gold even if multiplayer became free. It'd need to be insanely precisely messaged though to prevent cynics from saying "This is the first step to making multiplayer charged-for on PC and moving stuff behind a paywall".

edit: as always this is just me 100% speculating, I have no inside knowledge on any of this.

 

[driver116]

At this point Microsoft should make the Xbox brand device agnostic. Then you can merge the PC user-base and make the Xbox hardware basically like a steam machine, and when you buy an Xbox game, you can install it on your Xbox or PC.

 

[Obscuritas]

God only knows what'll really happen, but it's clear that MS want to shit all over any hype around Neo's launch.

Being first to market isn't always a good idea when your competitor is whispering, "Just wait a few months and we'll show you something even better!"
That's part of what killed the Dreamcast, since everyone was just waiting to see what Sony would do.

And that's not touching Sony at all, cause they still have the mindshare and the biggest userbase out there. Knowing that you can play all the old exclusives on PC, that's something that damages you more (hardware sales wise).

 

[jelly]

I wonder how much the new Xbox consoles will cost, I'll buy either way. I hope we get to see something at E3.

Slim 1TB - $199
Slim 2TB - $249

 

[Three]

They "lost" because they were not focused. MS were all over the place with Xbox One. Trying to get the TV-content angle, forcing Kinect2 into everybody when even they did not use it to the fullest extent, the whole digital only debacle..

Yes, they put out a product that people ultimately did not want. They didn't choose to do so though and their "warchest" did not help them.

I'm pretty sure that Uncharted 4 had more marketing in mainland Europe than any Xbox One games combined. Lumia 950 just recently started to run ads here in Norway, only 5 months after launch, while there's been iPhone 6S ads running since November.

You can't expect consumers to buy your product if they don't know it exist. Preferably you want your product to be top-of-mind.

So you are saying that windows phone and xbox one are not doing well because there simply was not enough marketing?

There was a massive marketing push for xbox one and especially one for windows phone. The product didn't do well and now there is a small marketing push because that infinite warchest isn't so infinite and MS aren't that silly. There is a small marketing push now because they know the ROI is not there. I would say Windows phone failed badly because they failed to gain developer support for their app store, it had nothing to do with marketing and we know where xbox ones shortcomings were too.

 

[Kordelle]

Will they be able to do full Xbox/360 Emulation with that power level?

 

[blastprocessor]

Star Citizen on at least one of the new consoles, come to me!

Please Chris can you release a game?

 

[c0de]

Will they be able to do full Xbox/360 Emulation with that power level?

What do you mean with "full"?

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Yeah, see this Beyond3d post vindicated by the No Man Sky news appeared today:

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1916406/

Rumor from a friend working in retail and had a meeting with a Sony rep

Sony have a more precise idea about the next Xbox announcement at E3 and release just after E3

A non announced exclusive game will be release for end of year.

No Man Sky is not coming next month and delay until at least August.

No PS4 Neo this year, PSVR is the end of year product.


Edit: he didn't precise if it is Xbox One slim or Xbox Next

I think they are going also for the upper power next year. Knowing Sony they will never launch an underpowered console knowing beforehand what the competition has. Who knows, maybe the leaked docs with Neo specs was a controlled leakage to mislead MS.

Ugh, it's not like adding RAM will make 4.14TF become 7TF.
You know, unless it delayed to fall 2017, a console that target release at Fall 2016-Spring 2017 won't have enough time to change something huge.

 

[amstradcpc]

No, you need to use AMD specs. Radeon 290X/390X which have been out for 1-2 years are 5.6-5.9 tflops which are based on 2014 specs which sell for around 350-400$. This AMD ~6tflop spec is going to be a $250-300 part soon.

Nvidia performance is around 4 tflops in this range of 290/390x cards.

Fury X from 2015, AMD's most powerful card right now is 8 tflops and that is in the Nvidia 6tflops TitanX/980ti range. Plus you're getting doubly carried away here, you mention a silly Titan X price at $1200 when you simply need to look at the 980ti which is 6flops at half the price.

Well Polaris suppossely will come with big increase in perf/flop (new shaders, new command processor, improved cache, new primitive culling acceleration...).

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

People could've done that since ages. There are way more reasons to go PC instead of consoles besides power but this forum seldom covers it.
Why would you buy a PS4? For a few exclusives? Are they worth spending so much money for the hardware *and* the games? Because you could build yourself a PC that plays every 3rd party way better than the PS4 can.
I don't see how this conversation will come to conclusive end as your opinion is already set in stone while I think everything can happen in the future and I am eager to see how it will turn out and not call doom over something that is a new approach.
But as I said, perhaps it takes some time to realize that console wars are over like generations are over, once and for all.
People are getting more freedom to fulfill their gaming needs than they ever had before. This should be only a positive thing for gamers in general, in my opinion.

No things are very different to how they were just 6 months ago with Xbox. I don't know how it escaped you but MS announced recently that all major titles from now on will be appearing on PC as well as Xbox. This changes things massively.

If Sony announced that all PS4 and PSVR titles were going to release on PC I would consider selling it, as I already have a high-end PC. It's as simple as that. It's down to MS to convince people why an Xbox Scorpio, with likely medium settings for PC games, is worth the money. From where I stand, it isn't.

 

[amstradcpc]

Ugh, it's not like adding RAM will make 4.14TF become 7TF.
You know, unless it delayed to fall 2017, a console that target release at Fall 2016-Spring 2017 won't have enough time to change something huge.

Polaris 10 in PS4 = 36 CUs with 911 Mhz = 4,2 Tflops.

Rumored desktop Polaris 10:
http://videocardz.com/60253/amd-radeon-r9-480-3dmark11-benchmarks

36 CUs at 1,266 GHZ = 5,8 Tflops.

The difference is the distance from a clock for a cold console at 150 watts and a console with a more desktop-like clock at near 220 watts.

The main problem could be if PS4 is one chip-APU (and XBOX 2 being a SOC) that don´t allow to take the clock much further.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

No things are very different to how they were just 6 months ago with Xbox. I don't know how it escaped you but MS announced recently that all major titles from now on will be appearing on PC as well as Xbox. This changes things massively.

If Sony announced that all PS4 and PSVR titles were going to release on PC I would consider selling it, as I already have a high-end PC. It's as simple as that. It's down to MS to convince people why an Xbox Scorpio, with likely medium settings for PC games, is worth the money. From where I stand, it isn't.

Then don't buy one. Let the millions of others who don't want to or can't afford a high end graphics card buy it and they'll be as happy as a lamb. Just like you.

 

[driver116]

So the 6TF is a rouse to get Sony to think that's what they're targetting,and they actually launch something with 10TF.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Polaris 10 in PS4 = 36 CUs with 911 Mhz = 4,2 Tflops.

Rumored desktop Polaris 10:
http://videocardz.com/60253/amd-radeon-r9-480-3dmark11-benchmarks

36 CUs at 1,266 GHZ = 5,8 Tflops.

The difference is the distance from a clock for a cold console at 150 watts and a console with a more desktop-like clock at near 220 watts.

The main problem could be if PS4 is one chip-APU (and XBOX 2 being a SOC) that don´t allow to take the clock much further.

Ugh, even Xbone had a huge box they only can add 53Mhz to their GPU, you think PS4K can add 350Mhz?
Besides, i'm not sure what's the point of "Sony have a more precise idea about the next Xbox announcement at E3 and release just after E3", unless they think Scorpio will release next month with 6TFlops!? no way man.

 

[Bad_Boy]

so there will be 3 graphic targets for games this gen? damn

 

[ekim]

He said this too:

Oha... Now it's getting interesting. Any proof he is legit?

edit: Oh yeah - the NMS post.

 

[c0de]

No things are very different to how they were just 6 months ago with Xbox. I don't know how it escaped you but MS announced recently that all major titles from now on will be appearing on PC as well as Xbox. This changes things massively.

If Sony announced that all PS4 and PSVR titles were going to release on PC I would consider selling it, as I already have a high-end PC. It's as simple as that. It's down to MS to convince people why an Xbox Scorpio, with likely medium settings for PC games, is worth the money. From where I stand, it isn't.

It's a prebuilt PC with much more convenience. I don't get how people can miss that. Do you expect 160 million people who bought a console last gen to be able to build themselves a PC although gaming was better there? Or that they only chose the consoles because of exclusives? And of course I got that but I don't think that you got the implications from that. Xbox is PC is Xbox now. Build a PC? Cool, MS customer. Buy the scorpio? Cool, MS customer. It is more or less the same platform. It seems that in your case, the Sony exclusives are just overly important and I think that doesn't apply to all gamers out there.

 

[amstradcpc]

Ugh, even Xbone had a huge box they only can add 53Mhz to their graphic card, you think PS4K can add 350Mhz?
Besides, i'm not sure what's the point of "Sony have a more precise idea about the next Xbox announcement at E3 and release just after E3", unless they think Scorpio will release next month with 6TFlops!? no way man.

The bigger the wattage the bigger the box of course.

About the E3 announcement he was surely talking about the new Xbox slim that the leak in the OP talks about (the post in B3D was previous to yesterday´s news).

 

[madmackem]

I definitely agree that many people simply care about games but saying that the "900p vs. 1080p" talk hasn't played a role in how things currently are -- especially as to why the Xbox One isn't as dominant as the 360 was in the US and UK isn't really telling the true history of how this current gen has gone in my opinion.



But the Xbox One isn't doing as well as the 360 did in those territories against PlayStation so there's definitely room to grow/improve in my opinion.



And I'm saying that this will more than likely never happen for the Xbox brand as those territories will simply never have an interest in the brand no matter the (solid) effort from MS. I feel that this plays a role in why MS are bringing console exclusives to PC. People in territories outside of US and UK may be far more interested in playing Xbox titles on PC (a device they already own) in comparison to buying an Xbox console to play these games.

MS gaining in US and UK though would definitely help as it would make their position closer to how things were with the 360 instead of how they currently are with the Xbox One.



Same was true for the PS3 last gen. Fighting games and RPGs still sold better on the PS3 in comparison to the Xbox 360 because it was what the Playstation brand was known for. Again, I definitely agree that power is not the most important trait but it definitely should help -- especially as seemingly more people are buying consoles to simply play multiplatform games.



But this time everything that we bought on PS4 & Xbox One will work on the Neo & Scorpio so it's definitely different in that sense. It's not a complete refresh as things were from this gen to last gen since compatibility with the old will be there at launch. People (seemingly) won't have to buy a "new console version" of a game that they already own for their older console since games will scale & download visual content based on what system they are being played on. This is on top of accessories more than likely being compatible too.

What people have now should work on what's coming out in the future and that's very different from the PS3/360 --> PS4/Xbox One transition.



I really don't see how it's foolish, especially if the PS4 Neo won't be marketed as a "next gen" console. If the Xbox Scorpio gets marketed as a next gen console from MS that simply has full compatibility with Xbox One then that may be very attractive to many gamers in the US and UK thus creating a gain that will continue on until whenever the next Playstation system (the one after Neo) launches.



I don't fully agree considering a part of that (eventually) 63-65 million userbase would be UK and American gamers who bought the original PS4 due to it being the more powerful console for multiplats. Some of those people would definitely stay with Playstation but not all if the power advantage for many of the best selling games (i.e. multiplats) changes.

I definitely feel that Playstation will always have the greater userbase worldwide -- especially if people who will move from the PS4/PS4 Neo and go to Xbox Scorpio will still count as being people in that Playstation userbase. I just also feel that the Xbox brand's position would improve if the Scorpio is as powerful as rumors are stating and it releases at an acceptable price (nothing more than $400) since the visually better version of third party games matters to people in the US and UK. The Playstation brand wouldn't have made as big of gains in these territories in comparison to how things were during the PS3 gen if power didn't matter at all.

So we are back to power matters, I'm sure I've been reading for months now no one cares about resolutions etc expect forum users. Ms fucked Xbox one up not because of it being slightly less powerful, they fucked it up because they didn't know what box they were even bringing to market. The messaging is up there with the worst launched pieces of tech ever, you'll still find the average joe who buys two games a year asking if it plays second hand games because he heard it didn't. That and price, for instance ms launched the 360 in the uk for £279.99 they launched Xbox one for £429.99, there's you're two reasons for it falling behind the ps4 more so than any resolution talk.

I'm not sure they can now pull the power card and it make a jot of difference, unless the box is on par or cheaper than the neo at launch there is little to no chance of them pulling any sort of lead back Sony gained due to ms fucking it all up. These boxes will be seen as the same boxes just more powerful we won't see any gen reset like the last one ever again it seems.

 

[_Legacy_]

Slim 1TB - $199
Slim 2TB - $249

Thanks, anyone have a rough estimate for Scorpio. I reckon it could end up being around £500. I'll buy regardless but hope this is the ballpark.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I kind of hope Sony announces a console with plug in and play components after the Neo...that is the way things should go. I think this upgraded platforms iterations will and should become archaic...Of course it can be parts adapted for the consoles. It will essentially becoming a PC platform focused on gaming only, but with much more streamlined architecture and much simpler internal interface on the customer end, i.e., plug and play hardware interchange.

I also kind of think that if they market the scorpio as a successor to the Xbone, there might even be a bigger backlash than Neo. This gen is only just hitting its stride now, and I also don't think the leap looks particularly big as a console sequel.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Ugh, even Xbone had a huge box they only can add 53Mhz to their GPU, you think PS4K can add 350Mhz?
Besides, i'm not sure what's the point of "Sony have a more precise idea about the next Xbox announcement at E3 and release just after E3", unless they think Scorpio will release next month with 6TFlops!? no way man.

They are talking about the slim Xbox One, not Scorpio. Polygon have the slim for release in August.

 

[amstradcpc]

Oha... Now it's getting interesting. Any proof he is legit?

He was on point about:
-No man Sky delay.
-the news about a new Xbox presented in the E3 (polygon OP leak confirms this).