WAR recon zero
Banned
Twitter and twitch not having any moderation at all does not help
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Popular streamer Narcissa Wright ends Twitch account, appears suicidal
Ginger Hail
Member
Hadn't heard she was transitioning until just now. Hope she'll be able to get some help and fully recover. Wonder if the speedrunning community could possibly come together and do something to show their support.
For anyone who cares, using phrases like "used to be a man" - "is now a woman"- etc is a little misunderstanding of what it means to be trans. It can imply that there was a decision made to change their gender, or that they weren't always the gender they associate with, which in turn trivializes the struggles of trans people. Not trying to call anyone out, just putting this out there.
The suicide rate for trans people being so astronomically high is heartbreaking. It makes the suggestion to 'grow a thick skin' a little hollow.
The suicide rate for trans people being so astronomically high is heartbreaking. It makes the suggestion to 'grow a thick skin' a little hollow.
ChaosSmurf
Member
It 100% doesn't have to be and maybe if Twitch stopped glorifying chat, the absolute worst part of their service and one of the most aggressive, awful places on the internet that makes 4chan look like the Reasonable Thought Emporium, and started putting real work into fixing their community, things would be better.
EDIT: Twitter too, while we're here.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
Problem is is that it seems most of her past enjoyment was interacting with others via Twitch and Youtube. When that happens, you become involved with the good and the bad of what people say to you.
It's very hard to separate yourself from that kind of negativity when it's the forum that you built a small career on. This happens with a lot of Internet personalities and it takes a while to develop a thick skin. Look at Boogie and how he had such a difficult time removing himself from all of the hate he received because of his weight. Now, imagine trying to transition into being a woman, trying to find a new you and people belittle you for it. Doesn't matter where the hatred comes from, it still deeply affects you.
Cereal Enthusiast
Banned
Yes, I can understand that, and of course I'm not as popular as her so maybe I don't know what it is like to have maybe hundreds of people saying mean things to you.
benicillin
Banned
Fuck the Internet, and fuck Twitter and Twitch for still sitting idly by and not addressing the problems that a total lack of moderation cause. The saddest thing is that this isn't even an extraordinary story, we see it happen literally every day.
When you see all the laws being passed in order to make life more miserable to people that are ever so slightly "different", just imagine how much easier it is to make life miserable when hiding behind the internet anonimity.
Many people are brave only when anonymous, either behind a fake profile or as a part of a mob. And when those mobs get justified by lawmakers and opinion leaders, it becomes a fertile breeding ground for bad people.
And even though the world is changing and advancing, some people never will. It is a sad reality.
Of course, some groups of people are just an easier, bigger and more vulnerable target.
Demoskinos
Member
I'm of two minds on that because while twitter harassment is a thing that has really taken a horrible turn especially in the last 2-3 years at the same time I think Twitter being essentially an open platform is one of the appealing things about it and I always get really I guess nervous about where you draw lines on that stuff because i'm very much in the camp of free speech and expression.
It's the fucking internet. Of course there are assholes everywhere that will dedicate their sad life to make her life hard. She should stop worrying about anon comments from the internet, because nothing will change sadly. There is literally nothing that she can do, because dickheads on the internet will keep going. The only option for her is to start ignoring dipshits.
And she will do it, because she is crying for help and there are still people supporting her of course.
Netherscourge
Banned
It's just more evidence that internet anoniminity needs to go away so people will be held accountable for their bullshit.
I hope she has real life support and can pull through this.
Its hard when the internet is often your escape and coping mechanism for real life issues; to come on and experience the same thing and often way worse is alienating. People hate the concept of sticking to only positive interactions but thats often what you have to resort to to not deal with all this shit.
all of this happens way to often. hopefully the world comes sooner or later where people are accepted for who they are. I'm not holding my breath though
Its hard when the internet is often your escape and coping mechanism for real life issues; to come on and experience the same thing and often way worse is alienating. People hate the concept of sticking to only positive interactions but thats often what you have to resort to to not deal with all this shit.
all of this happens way to often. hopefully the world comes sooner or later where people are accepted for who they are. I'm not holding my breath though
Triggerhappytel
Member
I agree with what you're trying to say, but when your job is on the internet and you're probably quite reliant on social media, I imagine filtering out all the hate is pretty difficult.
WAR recon zero
Banned
Your free speech ends when another person begins.
Some gaf people glorify that piece of shit twitch chat as well
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
Could be that too. I saw Carci have a breakdown on stream a couple months back because he felt he had stagnated with his content and subscribers. It was incredibly sad. Streaming for a living is such a fickle monster.
old manatee
Banned
Bunch of peckerfaced fuckwits can't handle it that a trans person can body them at video games.
chaobreaker
Member
I get where you're going with your posts but man... thinks about how much hateful shit she has to go parse through on a daily basis even if she starts ignoring it or "grows a thicker skin". How her enjoyment of streaming or doing something innocuous as going to bloody YouTube and Twitter is ruined by these shitheads who are harassing her. Day in and day out of all this mess. You can't just ignore it because then she would have to shut herself off from her livelihood; Shut herself off from using the internet.
i used to think this..but when's the last time you've been on facebook? EVEN WITH THEIR FULL NAME ON DISPLAY people can be REAL hateful.
Demoskinos
Member
I don't think this would help sadly and anonymity can help protect some of the people that would be affected by this kind of harassment. I see plenty of fucking incredibly hateful shit on YouTube and Twitter with people proudly displaying their real names.
hobblygobbly
Member
Twitch has a lot of moderation of both staff and appointed moderators by a channel owner for their channel. Her chat is subscriber-only and the harassment isn't coming through twitch's platform, it's very easy on twitch to filter yourself from that if you want to but the harassment is coming from the avenues of youtube and twitter. If another twitch streamer for example was sending their viewers to her open chat to harass, twitch staff mods would come down heavily on that streamer since it would be a violation of the rules.
Demoskinos
Member
I'm not saying Twitch chat isn't usually almost always shit but at the same time you can't say your for free speech if you just shut people down because they say shit you find distasteful.
Truer words have never been spoken
The point of non-anonymity isn't that they can hide from the people they attack - the point is they can't hide from family/friends.
There are countless people who have families and are 'upstanding memebers of society' - polite, well mannered, etc - who then go online and unleash horrific vitriol at people.
If your wife could see what you were saying to some Twitch streamer, words would be had. The idea is to open up human culture's interpersonal feedback loops (gossip, normalisation- basically "social judgement") to the internet.
And of course the policing/legal thing.
RecRoulette
Member
Yep. When ESPN switched their comments section to Facebook only, things actually got worse!
entremet
Member
They'll just create new accounts.
Moderation with these Web 3.0 sites is very difficult to do for a variety of reasons.
Message boards like GAF are older school and easier to moderate.
I dunno, judging from personal experience working yourself up to suicide can take a while. If she's looking into it however, there's consideration, and if that is left untreated it's bound to eventually happen.
That's important to know, trans people don't decide to be the other gender outta nowhere just for the heck of it rather than deciding to want to be themselves. As far as I know, gender identity already develops throughout early childhood, however the decision to commit to a non-cis gender identity can take a whole lot longer simply due to social pressure amongst other things. And looking at the reaction towards Narcissa here, I don't blame anyone for staying in closet about their gender identity, since again we're proven the world just isn't ready yet to accept people wanting to be themselves if that happens to go against the supposed norm in our current society.
On facebook, when a friend/family member likes or comments on something, it shows up on your news feed. I'm telling you, man. it means DICK. people do not give a fuck.
ClosingADoor
Member
The people saying distasteful stuff isn't the problem. Go ahead and shout that on your own Twitter feed or Facebook.
The problem is when it is targeted towards someone. Then it quickly becomes harassment.
PontyfaxJr
Member
I stopped following Narcissa's stuff shortly after she transitioned because she stopped playing games pretty much, but I hate to see anyone so miserable, especially someone who I always thought was pretty cool.
Hopefully she has a good support network in real life who can help her through this and the online stuff is just venting.
Hopefully she has a good support network in real life who can help her through this and the online stuff is just venting.
Demoskinos
Member
Still doesn't matter. You should see some of the shit on Facebook people post in view of their family and friends.
Remember that this would also strip transgendered people of their privacy, safety, and outlet to be themselves as well, among other persecuted groups. The bigots are in the majority in quite a few places and still make up a sizable block in most others - see the legislation passed recently in various American states as an example.
These massive websites just need to stop cutting vital corners and improve moderation standards. No need to out everyone in the closet to do so. I totally understand that the intention is noble, but I think it would cause more harm than good.
I hope Narcissia receives an outpouring of support and feels better soon. We're all standing with you, cheering you on!
Muskieratboi
Member
Godamnit, I do NOT want SGDQ to be a memorial.
Hoping she is able to get the help she needs.
Hoping she is able to get the help she needs.
This is a very good point that most people ignore. I wouldn't post in TransGAF if I knew my friends and family could find it. Anonymity allows you to reach out for support when you normally can't
Internet is a just a shitty place full of brats, rude and insensitive people who think they can say/do whatever they want hiding behind a screen.
Quitting with this fake-reality is a good first step if you've not developed the right mentality that allows you to simply not care about these people.
Second step is to go out, rely on those people who have supported you in your real life and are your friends. You'll find the same assholes in real life as well but you can also find lots of good people who are going to support you in unexpected ways.
It's not easy in general, go figure for people who are going through delicate things like transitioning to an other sex.
I hope she can get better and go through this moment stronger.
Quitting with this fake-reality is a good first step if you've not developed the right mentality that allows you to simply not care about these people.
Second step is to go out, rely on those people who have supported you in your real life and are your friends. You'll find the same assholes in real life as well but you can also find lots of good people who are going to support you in unexpected ways.
It's not easy in general, go figure for people who are going through delicate things like transitioning to an other sex.
I hope she can get better and go through this moment stronger.
Could her depression possibly be because she regrets her decision to change sexes? I've been trying to learn more about trans people and the issues surounding them and it seems one of the main reasons why their suicide rate is so high is because they regret undergoing a sex change. To me it seems more likely to be the main reason rather than people being mean online because if you have been on the internet for a while you should know that people love being assholes so you shouldn't take them seriously.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
What's the best way to contact her if you don't have a twitter account?
As someone who recently came to terms with my gender identity and I feel like I should send some words of encouragement because I've certainly been in her shoes before.
That is categorically false. The reason why the suicide rate is so high amongst trans people that have transitioned is because of the extreme level of prejudice trans people face.
Holygriever
Banned
You do realize that a sex reassignment op is not a pre-requisite for being trans/transitioning, right?
smh
I don't know :/ I follow her on twitter and was stunned to see those tweets on my TL last night.
If I knew how to do more, to help her more, to reach out to her and be heard, I'd do it. I'd give her a hug if I could.
Looks like Wright doesn't have that freedom.
I thought you could have personal mods on twitch chat?
Repeat after me.
Freedom of speech does not extend to private platforms. Freedom of speech only means the government can't arrest you for what you say.
Once again. Freedom of speech does not extend to private platforms. You should not expect such. You should not hope for such. There need to be better rules in place to keep people from spewing hateful--and not critical--language. There's nothing good about saying nasty shit. A private platform's right to protect their users from harassment is the only thing you should expect.
Which is why Twitter being a shitty company is always so upsetting.
It could be, but your question is ignorant at best. Depression is rarely linked to choices, especially if it leads to damaging and self-harm oriented behavior. Brain chemistry can be fucked. To ask if it has to do with regret is a cruel thing to say, and I'm not trying to demonize you--but I also won't coddle anyone who asks this question.
Try having your livelihood depend on the internet, and everywhere you turn you're told that you're subhuman. That you don't matter. Try going to work every day and hearing from your coworkers and the people outside that you're trash and you should kill yourself. It's easy to say that maybe you should find a different place of work. It's easy to say you should get thicker skin.
Now imagine a world in which there is no other place for you to work. Imagine living in a world that, no matter where you go, people are going to tell you to kill yourself. That you're disgusting. That would wear anyone down. No person is an island.
This is bullshit spun by TERFs and right wing wingnuts.
Carl2291
Member
Twitch has moderation.
If she is being harrassed on her stream, it's down to her own rules on the stream. Go sub mode and have moderators on your chanel who will actually do something about people causing trouble in chat.
7DollarHagane
Banned
I've always thought it was possible that *some* people might been better served with some sessions with a therapist to deal with other issues before making this kind of change.
People who are unhappy with themselves or have some major self image issue look to anything as a solution for that and changing your identity could look like an attractive solution to your problems but it might not be. This is not always the case but I think it has happened.
It seems like anyone who goes through this change should be sure they are free of any other major issues or self image problems if only because of the thick skin they will likely need in today's world, unfortunately.
This isn't a thing i would ever want to do but I don't understand harassing someone else who does. It just seems like insecurity.
canedaddy
Member
I hope this person gets some help... very sad.
I hate to say it, but anyone who puts himself or herself out there and engages with all of humanity in a forum like Twitch had better be prepared to encounter nastiness. Mean people will always exist, as will internet anonymity... there's no way to avoid hurtful and hateful attacks if you open yourself up like that. I'd never do it myself. It breaks my heart to see vulnerable people who just want some attention and/or affirmation throw themselves to the wolves and get torn apart. Unless your skin is super thick, you have an endless supply of self-confidence and you honestly could not care less what anyone else says about you, don't go public.
I hate to say it, but anyone who puts himself or herself out there and engages with all of humanity in a forum like Twitch had better be prepared to encounter nastiness. Mean people will always exist, as will internet anonymity... there's no way to avoid hurtful and hateful attacks if you open yourself up like that. I'd never do it myself. It breaks my heart to see vulnerable people who just want some attention and/or affirmation throw themselves to the wolves and get torn apart. Unless your skin is super thick, you have an endless supply of self-confidence and you honestly could not care less what anyone else says about you, don't go public.
hydragonwarrior
Member
YouTube comments... There should really be a hater filter esp if they become famous. Ppl like Beiber (universally hated by the internet) pretty much have to to maintain their sanity