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[orthodoxy1095]

That's great. They do care. I'm saying a lot of it is made up. It has to look good, it's healthcare, it's a service.

It's a service that has many different faces attached to it, some good and some bad.

I'm sure that you in all your wisdom and understanding of the healthcare industry can help share some of what is "made up." Like how they say "mostly violent shootings = violent video games" right?

Spoiler

A laughable statement as well. That hasn't been the common stance on video games for years. Whatever school you went to that taught you that is a joke. The current stance on video games and aggression is much more nuanced and reasonable than that.

And a severe ethics issue.

Of course it was an ethics issue. That doesn't reduce the enormous importance of the findings. It also overlooks that the experiment was important because of the ethics revolution it spawned.

 

[Tremis]

Best crisis ever.

This.

 

[caffeware]

Porn and Video games are ok, just don't mix them with Anime and you should be good.

The Omega Man
Member
(Today, 12:20 AM)

 

[Northeastmonk]

I'm sure that you in all your wisdom and understanding of the healthcare industry can help share some of what is "made up." Like how they say "mostly violent shootings = violent video games" right?

Spoiler

A laughable statement as well. That hasn't been the common stance on video games for years. Whatever school you went to that taught you that is a joke. The current stance on video games and aggression is much more nuanced and reasonable than that.

Video games are the last thing to be brought up. It only even exists in health care because they have to tackle violent teens and psychological problems with youth. They don't care unless they have to make a judgment call about the patient.

Made up isn't what I should really say. I should say they have to act that way or they lose their jobs. You can't be mean, you can't say it how it is, and that's it. If you don't like someone you have to put up with it. Which is worse because you're dealing with all kinds of people, pedos, rapists, killers, etc, etc. You have to be nice.

Healthcare isn't really for me. I've been in a mental ward with other patients as a nurse. You do whatever they tell you to do for their benefit provided its under a doctor, etc. etc. I hated it. If you're good at it. That's great. I don't even like touching this subject. Mental heath clinical sucked.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

You have to be nice.

How absolutely terrible.

 

[Northeastmonk]

How absolutely terrible.

I hope I don't go down the wrong track here, but that school also took me to the Sex Offenders treatment center. Sitting down hearing all their stories. I was wanting to throw a table over their heads and yell. It was awful. Being nice is one thing, but after you hear it time and time again it eats at you and you're sick of it.

I've had plenty of opinions in my time at nursing school. God forbid I had some opposing feelings. They all are celebrities of health. God Bless them, but that's it.

 

[The Awesomest]

This is one of those things I'd love to laugh off if I didn't see shades of it in myself.

I think this is where I am with this, too.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I did. My problem is the headline and throwing the term 'masculinity' around without a definition of what it means to be masculine in their eyes. I can only assume they mean the classic meaning of 'masculine' which I don't really care for and I don't think is relevant in today's times.

I agree with limiting the amount of time you play videogames, watching porn, watching tv, doing drugs, drinking coffee, studying, playing chess, lifting weights, riding your bike, or any other single activity though (unless you're paid professionally and legitimately for any of them, then go for it).

It's a summary of an interview about a study. If you want to know how they're defining "masculinity", maybe you should go read the study itself instead of complaining about an article's headline.

 

[Not]

BS. Masculinity is meaningless. We just assign it to things we feel comfortable with.

 

[TheSeks]

BS. Masculinity is meaningless. We just assign it to things we feel comfortable with.

To be fair though, his social and sexual points are valid. I wouldn't say video games specifically are the cause/effect of those, but there is people out there that have problems socializing or having romances.

Some of it may be social anxiety. Some of it may just be lack of experience due to playing video games or other endeavors.

 

[Randy Monk]

When I think about it videogames have offered relationships and bonds that I would have never experienced in the real world. The relationship with Snake and Otacon is to be dreamed for. A soldier and a scientist working together to bring peace. How innovative is that?

I dream of that kind of relationship in real life. Someone who has my back and I theirs on their journey of life.

Videogames offer roles and show imagery that we can only dream of experiencing in our young age. Videogames turned me into a man.

That was bewdaful

 

[ninanuam]

"Over the past decade, this pattern has escalated into adulthood where grown men remain like little boys, having difficulty relating to women as equals, friends, partners, intimates, or even as cherished wives."

See I don't buy this, men used to treat women little better that property less than 40 years ago, men have never had difficulty "relating to women as equals, friends, partners, intimates, or even as cherished wives" because it wasn't even really a concept pre 1970.

They never even had to bother.

 

[Neff]

If you are doing something to the point of abuse, it does not benefit society. That would be like saying that alcoholics are good for the economy because they buy beers.

I wouldn't quite put substance abuse on the same level, because that conclusively harms individuals, and also potentially those around them. Videogames and porn are enjoyable, harmless outlets for countless individuals.

But yeah, this is definitely a case of individuality and responsibility.

True masculinity imo is about doing whatever the hell you want to do (legally speaking) and not worrying about what others think you should or shouldn't do.

 

[Bold One]

Currently working long hours, 7-9, by the time I get home, I'm so knackered I barely have time for a 30 minute Destiny session let alone sex or masturbation. It would be nice to have some time for porn and sex, I can't think of a better release.

but when it comes to masculinity, the concept has been harangued, twisted, demonised and dragged through so much dirt in the past decade by extreme left and right that its tough to know what to make of it any more.

 

[DrFurbs]

His book on how good people turn evil is nothing short of astounding.

Zimbardo is anything but a hack. Stanford would have booted him if he was. I wish I had 10% of the knowledge this guy has.

 

[Funyarinpa]

Where are my M-rated porn games!?

Google "nukige"

Enjoy.

 

[Roshin]

Okay, so what he's saying is that playing too many videogames and watching too much porn can lead to problems, ie hinder "young men's social development and academic achievement".

Sure, excessive use of anything combined with isolation can do that. Moderation in everything and all that.

Then he takes it way further and suggests that "It begins to change brain function. It begins to change the reward centre of the brain, and produces a kind of excitement and addiction. What I'm saying is - boys' brains are becoming digitally rewired."

Digitally rewired, huh? Hmm...

He also claims there is a growing problem of "porn-induced erectile dysfunction", ie "young boys who should be virile are now having a problem getting an erection."

This however is disputed and there is no evidence of links between porn and erection issues.

So, videogames are evil again, it seems. We had a break and it was nice while it lasted. Just wait until the doctor finds out about VR.

 

[Klossen]

Nature abhors a vacuum. Addiction fills a void in a person's life that isn't being fulfilled somewhere else. I think the problem is much deeper than a masculine identity crisis. It's about the way technology is pushing society towards greater and greater individualization of experience, often at the direct expense of social engagement/capital/experiences. Despite the instantaneous and interconnected nature of the internet, society now provides less access to avenues and outlets for in person social engagement to occur; the idea of a community center is quickly becoming an anachronism. If our schools provide the only stable and recurring environment in which people can forge true friendships, then it's no surprise that young adults who don't succeed in doing so during that time find themselves drifting into aimlessness as they enter the post-educational world.

Good post. Technology is developing at such a rapid pace that we can mimic social interaction in different manners. Hell, just posting on NeoGaf is one way to mimic real life social interaction without actually taking part in it. It's so easy to forget oneself in the complete abundance of technology and entertainment. If dedicated, one can fill a void for years with proper stimulants from other venues than people.

It has struck especially hard against young adult males as it's a group in society that is often expected to "pick themselves up". Since they don't often go calling for help despite them needing and wanting it, the numbers of actually afflicted young men reported comes with a huge unknown variable.

 

[dh4niel]

Excessive video games and pornography, sounds like my teen years.

 

[hateradio]

To be fair though, his social and sexual points are valid. I wouldn't say video games specifically are the cause/effect of those, but there is people out there that have problems socializing or having romances.

Some of it may be social anxiety. Some of it may just be lack of experience due to playing video games or other endeavors.

Pretty sure that if you're a shut-in that you're going to have social hangups (anxieties, depression, etc), so blaming two things (games and porn) for "masculinity crisis" seems like it's also missing some points -- though maybe they're just using those two points to sell the book.


In any case, if you can't love yourself, how can you expect to love anyone else?

 

[SMOK3Y]

when young males see this picture and there first thought is 'eww what a hairy arm'
then i think we have a problem, i guess it's not anime enough.
see this gaf thread for proof...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1037359

Lol I agree to this post

 

[Newman96]

Sounds like someone's been reading too much Fight Club to me

 

[FloatingDivider]

Stuff

I adress your complaints in my previous post which you would have seen had you read the thread, rather than jump at the opportunity to wave your psychology 101 wand.

Sorry but you take a massive L for this post. It would have helped to at least take an introductory psychology course.

I have taken quite a bit more than an introductory psychology course, maybe that's why I'm slightly more skeptical than to have blind adoration for whatever story falls out of Zimbardo's mouth.

 

[CoffeeKillquest]

Porn and Video games are ok, just don't mix them with Anime and you should be good.

Oh no I done goofed what happens now?

OT I guess it's all about moderation and I'm no doctor so what do I know.

 

[YoungHav]

If you ask any woman 30+, she will tell you young guys suck at sex. There's truth to this study.

 

[hal9001]

 

[Sagroth]

Also, porn is far more of a product of masculinity than anything else. It can pander to the absolute worst facets of past masculinity: reducing sex(and women in some cases) to a simple service with the simplest of exchanges. Add in the fantasy aspect, the lack of rejection, and easy to follow rules in a time when the rules are changing, and sure, I can see why it could be addicting.

But in many ways, this is way more of a reaping-what-you-sow kinda thing than anything else.

As for video games, well...remove sex from the above and replace it with social interaction and reward sensation and you are basically there, particularly since video games throughout most of their history has pandered mostly to the male demographic.

(All the above said, I love video games and porn, even though as an autistic male I am VERY much in the danger zone for what Zimbardo is describing. Thankfully, I have an awesome spouse and a decent social life outside of games)

 

[PtM]

I believe this man is mistaking symptoms for cause. Maybe videogames are just a convenient escape route of choice for shut-ins and the like.

 

[Sakujou]

moderation is the key to everything.

And we are done here.
Nuff said.

 

[Galdelico]

Time for AAA games to become ααα. Let them boost dat masculinity.

Spoiler

:/

 

[Apt101]

This argument again. I remember reading the same stuff when the Internet was young. Men are still men. "Crisis". Hah.

 

[Pinktaco]

Oh.. Right.. Completly forgot, women don't watch porn nor play video games. Better tell my girlfriend.

 

[RedShift]

I can't help but notice that whenever people talk about the negative effects of pornography, people act like they're talking about masturbation. It's like people can't imagine the latter without the former.

If you can't jerk it without porn then you have a serious problem.

As for video games, the occasional binge is fine, but if you're playing five hours every day you should probably cut down.

 

[wickfut]

so it has nothing to do with a higher percentage of kids being brought up in single parent families without a father figure, and then nothing to do with extreme feminism out to destroy whatever is left over of masculinity then?

It must be video games and movies of adults doing what is fucking natural to the species then.

 

[synce]

Sounds about right. Look at Japan's birthrate crisis.

 

[petran79]

What about porn video games?

 

[PtM]

What about porn video games?

Every crisis imaginable.

 

[Frumix]

Sounds about right. Look at Japan's birthrate crisis.

Surely it's video games and not things like unhealthily demanding working environments

 

[Sagroth]

Surely it's video games and not things like unhealthily demanding working environments

Ayup, there are indeed multiple factors beyond video games that is causing this in Japan(and I know that was what you were getting at). Slow economy, more working women in the economy, extremely demanding work environments, knowing that they won't make more money than their parents, extremely high stress levels, and being unable to afford children are all major facets.

The video games(Love Plus probably being the most prominent example) are essentially the symptom, or at least what Japanese men are using to compensate.

While video games can perpetuate negative social messages simply through message propagation, the truth is that they are more a reflection of the larger culture than anything else. Other countries are already starting to go the same route as Japan, with some slight variations and a slower pace, due to similar(largely economic, some cultural) factors.

 

[halfbeast]

ok, I've read the article and watched the video. I just can't see how porn and video games here is the problem. he specifically calls out the interaction between opposite sex and how guys lose interest in "playing the game". but isn't the overall education at fault? all the pink/blue crap, the female magazines on how to "get a man" by coming up with some retarded rules? same goes for all those stupid male magazines (and now with all those blogs it's even faster to get bullshit information).

I feel like the easy access to (mis)information is the bigger issue.

 

[Shiina]

Guys, stop playing so many games and watching so much porn. Mmkay?

No, thanks.

 

[Sakujou]

Sounds about right. Look at Japan's birthrate crisis.

Haha you sir are funny.

What about germany??? We have a similiar birthrate. Germany is by far no videogaming country. (Compared to france or UK)

 

[Maximo]

I can't help but notice that whenever people talk about the negative effects of pornography, people act like they're talking about masturbation. It's like people can't imagine the latter without the former.

If you can't jerk it without porn then you have a serious problem.

As for video games, the occasional binge is fine, but if you're playing five hours every day you should probably cut down.

Friend of mine says he can't remember the last time he jacked it without porn, pretty eye opening that some require that level of stimulus.

 

[PtM]

Haha you sir are funny.

What about germany??? We have a similiar birthrate. Germany is by far no videogaming country. (Compared to france or UK)

More gamers than France in total numbers, though not in percentages. Can't recall the source, though.

 

[Acinixys]

Who still plays games alone?

Sure when I play SP games, but 90% of my gaming time is with games like Diablo and Dota, and then im on TeamSpeak/Mumble with friends

 

[th4tguy]

Video games are masculine as fuck, get outta here

But is it the right kind of masculine image we should be experiencing? I would equate most masculine figures in video games to most woman figures in porn. They are grossly exaggerated for entertainment purposes and not meant to be seen as role models (most not all).
I think it's a problem if an entire generation of males grow up thinking being masculine is the same as being macho ass kicking like Bj from Wolfinstien or over the top sexual (without care for your partner) like a guy in a porn.
There is a place for these things. They are entertainment and their character tropes have been around since way before video games or even video but there are two big problems.
1: we have more exposure then past generations
2: parents either rely or allow this exposure without communicating or demonstrating real world examples of real men and woman role models.

I can see this as a problem with not just games and porn but all media entertainment and how parents interact with their kids. It's a problem for men and woman as woman also face these issues.

 

[Minion101]

I will believe gamers have a masculinity crisis before I believe they are violent misogynists for sure.

 

[JC Sera]

Seriously the knee jerk reactions in this thread are silly.
I think we saw what happens if you threaten the masculinity in video games culture in any way with

Spoiler

gübergate

. If thats not a sign of crisis I don't know what is.

As for the porn connection, yeah I agree with the professor better sex ed is needed, especially focusing on emotional aspects for boys.

I will believe gamers have a masculinity crisis before I believe they are violent misogynists for sure.

I like this post

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

The very idea of masculinity (or femininity) is the problem. Boys are mentally cajoled at a young age to believe that being buff, strong, almost vulcan-esque with their emotions (boys don't cry), violent, a lady killer, handy, etc is what a man should be and when they can't live up to those expectations it causes problems.

Depression, suicide, mental health issues, destructive behavior, misogyny, sexual health issues, identity issues. Many boys think something is wrong with them because they like traditionally female things like the color pink (amongst other things) over traditionally male things which causes gender confusion in them.

Also, porn itself is a big problem for men. It has been proven to cause sexual disfunction in many men because when faced with the reality that real women aren't like the victims they see in porn they are either unable to get physically aroused or unable to come to completion. If you can go three hours without even feeling close to orgasm there is a problem.

As for video game violence the issues comes when that violence is wrapped in a false masculine label. "You like this violence or you are a pussy" sort of thing. In general violence isn't an issues when a boy is old enough to totally comprehend what the violence in games entail.

 

[Scipio]

Hacky old man psychologist claims kids aren't doing the same shit they did when he was a kid. Surely this must be a problem because how can they be mans mans without doing the same shit I did. Btw this is the same idiot that ran the stanford prison experiment, just letting y'all know.

Phillip Zimbardo is a hack? OK then.