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[tengiants]

It's a summary of an interview about a study. If you want to know how they're defining "masculinity", maybe you should go read the study itself instead of complaining about an article's headline.

I've read the article and watched the interview, and read the interview description. I'm not seeing any studies being cited at all, which is my problem with both. The only definition of masculinity I can assume he is using is the classic one, which often times simply implies traits of aggression. If this is what he is saying, that videogames make men less aggressive, well perhaps he needs to watch Anita's videos.

No one is saying that 5+ hours a day of videogames and 2+ hours of porn watching isn't a lot. Of course you are going to have social problems (and more problems than just that) if you play videogames this much, or watch porn that often, and neither of which you do professionally. This is a general and known problem with addiction though, and has nothing to do with gender.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Porn and videogames are both safer and cheaper than what might be seen as more masculine alternatives. In this society based upon consumerism not everybody can afford to be the alpha male.

That said it would be interesting to see the overlap between this group of men and those who are children of divorce. Raised by my mother and with a father I saw maybe 4 times my entire life I didn't have very many good role models from which to learn masculinity. Reading Louis L'Amour and Robert Heinlein were how I built my idea of manhood.

 

[Kama_1082]

Porn and videogames are both safer and cheaper than what might be seen as more masculine alternatives. In this society based upon consumerism not everybody can afford to be the alpha male.

And what are those masculine alternatives?

 

[GoonerTRON]

If you ask any woman 30+, she will tell you young guys suck at sex. There's truth to this study.

Got to change position every 30 seconds like a porno.

 

[Woo-Fu]

And what are those masculine alternatives?

The real versions of everything in videogames and porn.

 

[Kama_1082]

The real versions of everything in videogames and porn.

This makes no sense.

 

[Coxy]

lol

Videogames make you violent!
no? ok then
Videogames make you sexist!
not that either?
Not violent or sexist? What kind of man are you? Get laid you fucking pussies! Get out and shoot some things irl!

Gamers get demonized no matter what. Good thing we're alone in our rooms not giving a fuck!

 

[freenudemacusers]

yikes. some of the responses in this thread are super depressing.

 

[FriedConsole]

Haha you sir are funny.

What about germany??? We have a similiar birthrate. Germany is by far no videogaming country. (Compared to france or UK)

I have seen German porn. You are not making a good point.

 

[Woo-Fu]

This makes no sense.

Makes perfect sense to me. Maybe an example will help you understand. I play a lot of "building" games because I can't afford to build such things in real life.

Buying all the tools and materials and building oh, say, a lumbermill in my backyard would be more masculine than sitting in my room doing it virtually in Minecraft, wouldn't it?

I can't afford to do that, though, and the odds of me cutting off one or more of my appendages while doing it are far more likely in the backyard than in Minecraft.

As far as porn goes that should be obvious. Masturbation is the "safest" sex gets. Cheapest in most cases too, lol.

 

[Tye The Czar]

From watching the documentary, "The Mask You Live In," I hey the impression that traditional masculinity is a problem in and of itself. It usually starts at childhood where they're told by their parents, other kids or commercial media to "be a man".

In the US, traditional masculinity usually says that you need to be insensitive, need to fight for dominance and be sexually promiscuous. Showing certain emotions, crying, sympathy or empathy are seen as a weakness. And men can never look weak.

 

[Roshin]

Friend of mine says he can't remember the last time he jacked it without porn, pretty eye opening that some require that level of stimulus.

Sounds like science to me!

 

[travisbickle]

Porn and videogames are both safer and cheaper than what might be seen as more masculine alternatives. In this society based upon consumerism not everybody can afford to be the alpha male.

These studies are never about hyper masculinity perpetuated in a consumerist world. It's that both porn and video games are acts of consumption, and masculine acts are generally creating, building, cooperating ...

 

[oni_saru]

The bigger news here is Zimbardo is still doing research! Didn't expect to see his name come up!

 

[dead souls]

I believe this man is mistaking symptoms for cause. Maybe videogames are just a convenient escape route of choice for shut-ins and the like.

Agreed.

Factor in the fact that wages are still pretty shitty/housing costs are ridiculous and it's not surprising that more and more grown ass adults are chilling in their parents basement playing games.

 

[entremet]

I definitely want to read his book.

He's a fantastic researcher.

 

[Portugeezer]

What is the problem if guys losing their masculinity? significantly fewer wars on earth ?

Yeah because Queens never started wars.

 

[tengiants]

These studies are never about hyper masculinity perpetuated in a consumerist world. It's that both porn and video games are acts of consumption, and masculine acts are generally creating, building, cooperating ...

I don't see those as masculine traits personally. All humans are interested in those things ultimately. Aggression is normally the key indicator of masculinity, as indicated by the dictionary definition. Human males produce a lot more testosterone than human females and there are many studies that support a direct link between testosterone levels and aggression in mammals.

Do all videogames increase/decrease testosterone levels? My intuition tells me no, but if there was a study that told me as much than I might be able to get on board with his opinion.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Porn and video games a crisis? Sounds like a good time! But seriously, moderation is the key to everything.

I'm going to consume heroin in moderation right now

 

[yuraya]

Addictions have existed for thousands of years. Sex and entertainment has existed for thousands of years. Men were beating their dicks all alone in a room long before books, porn and video games existed. But somehow only now this stuff causes a crisis. Yea ok. The only thing this study proves is that even professors from Stanford are idiots who waste everyone's time with meaningless research.

The professor is the one who needs to get laid. But of course he is too busy writing and selling books about others having a sex crisis. Something something mens brains are being digitally rewired something..fuck off.

 

[Beelzebufo]

This has basically always been the case, yeah? When it wasn't Duke Nukem it was Arnold Schwarzenegger, and I he can't be suggesting that porn is a new concept. There have always been and still are other kinds of role models as well.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Addictions have existed for thousands of years. Sex and entertainment has existed for thousands of years. Men were beating their dicks all alone in a room long before books, porn and video games existed. But somehow only now this stuff causes a crisis. Yea ok. The only thing this study proves is that even professors from Stanford are idiots who waste everyone's time with meaningless research.

The professor is the one who needs to get laid. But of course he is too busy writing and selling books about others having a sex crisis. Something something mens brains are being digitally rewired something..fuck off.

Why are you so upset? You sound really unreasonable! Listen to the interview with BBC - They are talking about people who consume these things in excess.
The fact that your argument is that because addictions have existed for thousands of years, doing research on this topic is meaningless, is incredible ignorant and short sighted.

 

[Carl7]

But isn't it a crime nowadays? why he cares?

 

[yuraya]

Why are you so upset? You sound really unreasonable! Listen to the interview with BBC - They are talking about people who consume these things in excess.
The fact that your argument is that because addictions have existed for thousands of years, doing research on this topic is meaningless, is incredible ignorant and short sighted.

Because it is meaningless. At the end of all the research it will always return you to step one. Step one is always going to be the addiction. Instead of tackling subjects by thinking outside the box they nitpick and target people. Blame the internet, blame the video games, blame young adults, blame men. Rinse n repeat. Its bs and a waste of everyones time. They'll have better luck inventing some pill to cure people of addiction or wipe their memories. Society isn't going to give up entertainment and sex just because some professor from Stanford wrote a book.

 

[RealityCheque]

Doesn't this shit come up every 18 months. Some research grad is really trying to justify the continuing existence of their "work".

Watching lots of porn is bad and gives men, particularly younger men, a skewed perspective on sex. Check. I'd never have known that without this wonderful study.

Playing video games that depict men as musclebound, bullet proof action dude-bros causes men who lack the same physical attributes to feel as though they lack something. Frankly that's bullshit. Games have been moving away from that stereotype for some time now, for every COD there's 3 TLOUs with varied and fresh protagonists.

Hollywood, TV and print media are, on the other hand, moving ever closer to that stereotype of heavily muscled men and women with size zero waists and big tits. It always makes me laugh when I see these people in movies being asked about their "training regime" without also being asked "what PEDs are you shovelling into your body and are you worried about the long term consequences for your health?!".

But let's ignore all that and just say that videogames are bad, mmmkay!

 

[Fantasmo]

At some point you just become numb to all of it. Yes Mr researcher, I play video games and give myself a wank. I can't be bothered to appease anyone in a society where everything I do is considered wrong or bad, and I won't even try because you'll find something else to complain about.

Leave me alone ffs, find something to do with your own time rather than criticize what I do with mine. I'm not here to do anything anyone else wants me to do. I used to be considerate until I realized nobody else is so fuck it.

Me me me, I love it.

 

[schick85]

Because it is meaningless. At the end of all the research it will always return you to step one. Step one is always going to be the addiction. Instead of tackling subjects by thinking outside the box they nitpick and target people. Blame the internet, blame the video games, blame young adults, blame men. Rinse n repeat. Its bs and a waste of everyones time. They'll have better luck inventing some pill to cure people of addiction or wipe their memories. Society isn't going to give up entertainment and sex just because some professor from Stanford wrote a book.

This is just something that's been observed in our society, a phenomenon of how games and pornography are getting in the way of young men who would otherwise be interacting and developing social skills necessary in the real world. He's not advocating a ban of all medium; he's merely sounding off the alarms. If this doesn't apply to your world, then all the more power to you.

 

[FloatingDivider]

Phillip Zimbardo is a hack? OK then.

Sort of, read longer opinion here

 

[Chaos17]

Where are my M-rated porn games!?

They're banned here.

 

[Funyarinpa]

I find the idea of "masculinity" to be meaningless. There should be no stereotypical idea of what a "man" is. Penis, testes, done. That is the common denominator of all men. "Masculinity", therefore, as a concept, is meaningless to me. It does not apply to all men, but it sounds like it is (the impression that a "man" has to be "masculine".)

A guy sitting in his mother's basement on a chair barely carrying his 120 kilograms hacking away at a niche MMO after jerking off to something or other is as "man" as a guy who regularly does sport, has a lot of muscle, and goes to Las Vegas for vacation with a group of friends every year.

Now, I could not really understand if the guy was complaining that this image of "masculinity" was being dissipated in the current generation, but I think it is meaningless to worry if that is the case.

 

[Scofield94941]

I hate how most of you on here and other game aother sites flip their shit and feel they are being attacked. He simply said this is helping contribute to the downfall of most men. Not the underlining reason. Men are becoming worse amd worse with women. Twitch, tinder, dating sites all show you that downfall. If you watch porn and play videogames and also have a social life and can talk to women and have relationships with ease then shut up and stop being defensive. This isnt about you and someone trying to take away your games and porn.

 

[FStop7]

I think the social isolation is related to changes in our society. video games and porn aren't the cause, they're the escape. It is becoming harder and harder to socialize in the real world because we exist more and more online or in our jobs. Games and porn become substitutes for what used to be common social interactions.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Do all videogames increase/decrease testosterone levels? My intuition tells me no, but if there was a study that told me as much than I might be able to get on board with his opinion.

All video games? No one would make such a sweeping claim, but it's been seen in various studies that team-based games create increases in testosterone.

I hate how most of you on here and other game aother sites flip their shit and feel they are being attacked. He simply said this is helping contribute to the downfall of most men. Not the underlining reason. Men are becoming worse amd worse with women. Twitch, tinder, dating sites all show you that downfall. If you watch porn and play videogames and also have a social life and can talk to women and have relationships with ease then shut up and stop being defensive. This isnt about you and someone trying to take away your games and porn.

Whether you agree with Zimbardo or not, this is really the crux of his argument. He believes men are getting worse at talking to, relating to and being intimate with women (and even other men actually). That's his "crisis of masculinity," that there are people who are rejecting human contact and socialization for fantasy escapes.

 

[kevm3]

All video games? No one would make such a sweeping claim, but it's been seen in various studies that team-based games create increases in testosterone.

Whether you agree with Zimbardo or not, this is really the crux of his argument. He believes men are getting worse at talking to, relating to and being intimate with women (and even other men actually). That's his "crisis of masculinity," that there are people who are rejecting human contact and socialization for fantasy escapes.

And yet if there was an article stating the reverse, aka a 'femininity crisis' where women are derided for watching too much sex and the city, being tethered to their phones and shopping too much and it ruining their femininity and ability to connect with men, it would be labeled as a sexist and monstrous piece of work.

The real question is WHY are so many boys looking to videogames and porn. A lot of men are tired of being told what they 'need' to be doing and what is required of them, and yet on the other hand being told how we need to eliminate the gender roles

 

[crookedaxis]

'masculinity crisis'

nah, man
can't take that seriously.

 

[Funyarinpa]

I really do not get why this is a "masculinity" crisis if the problem is interpersonal relationships.

I do not think you should dub something "related to masculinity" just because it is about relationships with women from a man's perspective.

 

[Bold One]

its not just men,

There is a section of modern women has become obscenely materialistic and narcissistic.

I guess you could say, society is in 'crisis'

 

[nel e nel]

Dr. Z runnin' thangz

 

[Red Liquorice]

I'm willing to forego traditional definitions of masculinity if it means I can have porn and video games.

 

[Folstern]

Dr. Z runnin' thangz

I like his alternative costume with the words "Captain Obvious" written across his chest. I'm so glad researchers are being paid to confirm that addiction is indeed harmful. Who would have thought?

 

[red36]

Video games and porn are a problem for sure.

So are movies, media, the quality of writing in the news, quality of conversation people experience everyday, social media, contemporary work ethic, corporate work ethic, lack of interest in public works.

Males are in crisis for sure. So is everyone else.

I didn't closely read the thread, but it's funny when the op guy is talking about males but people infer white males.

We need to think of each other more as individuals and less as labels.

 

[nel e nel]

I like his alternative costume with the words "Captain Obvious" written across his chest. I'm so glad researchers are being paid to confirm that addiction is indeed harmful. Who would have thought?

To be fair, he works with a non profit called Heric Imagination Project where they try to work against bystander effect and get people to be more socially engaged with their community.

 

[SerTapTap]

The very idea of masculinity (or femininity) is the problem. Boys are mentally cajoled at a young age to believe that being buff, strong, almost vulcan-esque with their emotions (boys don't cry), violent, a lady killer, handy, etc is what a man should be and when they can't live up to those expectations it causes problems.

Depression, suicide, mental health issues, destructive behavior, misogyny, sexual health issues, identity issues. Many boys think something is wrong with them because they like traditionally female things like the color pink (amongst other things) over traditionally male things which causes gender confusion in them.

Yeah, I Think this is a way bigger problem than video games. I think the real issue here is people are outgrowing the shitty concepts of traditional gender roles at different rates, and our current generation is in a really, really shitty time where you can be pretty majorly fucked up if you're in a different stage of outgrowing traditional gender than your peers. I find it really hard to relate to people who expect me to be Standard Masculine Dude but honestly, fuck those people anyway. Or well, don't fuck 'em, I'd rather they didn't reproduce.

Society will be better off when relationships are person to person, not male to female, and making babies is almost completely decoupled from intimacy (where necessary). We're just at that super awkward point where some individuals are ready for that but society as a whole isn't quite ready for that.

 

[Visualante2]

Can't wait for the VR interactive pornography nexus which will bring this story to a crescendo. The most interesting point I think he makes is about fear of rejection, that's what a lot of this hinges upon. If men (in most cultures) weren't expected to bear all the weight of rejection things might look different.

Why has this resurfaced?

Financial collapse has coincided with people having less sex and children. Got to blame something other than the people in charge I guess. If you look to Japan they actually have a population problem that could be exacerbated by otaku culture. (i'm not an expert)

Also, being alone in your room is not traditionally social, but come on. It's 2015. People do five hour livestreams to audiences of thousands while they are "alone in their room". The Internet is social.

He's talking about in person social skills, things that don't necessarily translate online.

Porn gives an unrealistic expectation of sex and what is acceptable in terms of sexual relationships which, really, can be dangerous in terms of relationships, especially if they've never had any other discussion about sex.

There has been a massive rise in the availability of amateur porn. Many prefer it because it's more realistic. I don't think this argument holds as much weight any more.

What's this about? Isn't this the opposite of what is portrayed.

Never seen okcupid profile shaming online?

I like the sensationalist title and then the context of "oh yeah, we're talking about neets who stay in their mom's basement".

Well duh. Unmotivated people with social anxiety disorders don't behave like prototypical people. The question is, are videogames and porn the cause (no) or just something one tends to do when they don't leave their house much.

This post reminds me of the links between internet addiction and depression. The scientists were very very cautious to draw any firm conclusions, stating only there there is a link- they weren't sure if one caused the other or which.

the trend now is that most young people are holed up in their rooms because of videogames as it's much easier to socialize with people on the comfort of their couch.

With that being said, this topic hits home hard for me. My younger brother (who just turned 18) has always been social recluse because of video games and my parents just allowed it just so he didn't do the same dumb shit I did growing up (underage drinking, partying, etc). The consequence now is that he's completely awkward with everyone except for people online that he's never met in person. My mom is now afraid to send him off to the real world because she doesn't think he can take care of himself because he doesn't know how to do the most basic things such as cooking, paying bills and being responsible. He talks about going into the "real world" and owning a house and my dad says he doesn't know how to swing a hammer, work a saw, and anything that has to do with being a homeowner.

With that being said, it doesn;t make my brother any less masculine than the next person, but being holed up playing video games all day has stunted his personality and social skills so much that we believe that he's going to have the hardest time adjusting to the "real world" and taking care of himself and possibly others.

The parents can also be responsible. I think there is this fear of letting your children out into the real world these days, to go get dirty and get in trouble, climb trees etc because of whatever the latest scare is, paedophiles or kidnappers etc. So the easy parenting option is to have them play video games. I know this kid who can't ride a bike, and he's now 11 and ashamed of it and I think that his parents have chosen Minecraft over scraped knees.

Otaku culture is but a small part of the country and doesn't address the broad problems that the society has at its core. I would more argue that it is a manifestation of underlying social problems and that technology and economic progress are merely the tools that enabled it. Fundamentally, Japanese society is a highly-masculine and male-oriented society that does not accept social change, has well-defined objectives for male and female members of society in defining success, and ostracizes individuals who deviate from what is expected of them. If people want to solve Japan's declining population, they should first look into why its suicide rate is so high.

Another thing that is massively higher in men. Interesting conclusion.

 

[openrob]

I had to study this guys research in college. The Stanford experiment was actually really insightful, but Zimbardo is crazy.

 

[Laconic]

I hate how most of you on here and other game aother sites flip their shit and feel they are being attacked. He simply said this is helping contribute to the downfall of most men. Not the underlining reason. Men are becoming worse amd worse with women. Twitch, tinder, dating sites all show you that downfall. If you watch porn and play videogames and also have a social life and can talk to women and have relationships with ease then shut up and stop being defensive. This isnt about you and someone trying to take away your games and porn.

Huh.

I always thought that it took two to tango.

How are women not equally to blame, for this?

How have women not become equally worse and worse with men?

The sexism is staggering.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I've read the article and watched the interview, and read the interview description. I'm not seeing any studies being cited at all, which is my problem with both. The only definition of masculinity I can assume he is using is the classic one, which often times simply implies traits of aggression. If this is what he is saying, that videogames make men less aggressive, well perhaps he needs to watch Anita's videos.

What's he supposed to do, bring a works cited page to a TV interview?

It's an interview about a book. If you want an in-depth analysis where he cites sources, read the book. Right now it seems like you're just complaining about the article as opposed to the actual topic.

- - -

It blows my mind that OP thought gaming side was the place to post an article that's even slightly critical of gaming. We've seen time and time again that people here are irrationally hostile to anything that says their hobby isn't the greatest thing since the wheel.

Huh.

I always thought that it took two to tango.

How are women not equally to blame, for this?

How have women not become equally worse and worse with men?

The sexism is staggering.

Man, why does a book about Male Psychology talk primarily about men? A puzzle.

 

[Cizeta-Moroder]

Problems like this should breed out by next generation.

Huh.
I always thought that it took two to tango.
How are women not equally to blame, for this?
How have women not become equally worse and worse with men?
The sexism is staggering.

Lolwat
How exactly are women to blame
Having standards?
Having an independent life of their own?

 

[Laconic]

Problems like this should breed out by next generation.


Lolwat
How exactly are women to blame
Having standards?
Having an independent life of their own?

I wasn't joking.
They are to blame in the exact same way as men are to blame.
Are the men to blame for having standards?
Are the men to blame for having independent lives of their own?

The idea that problems like this should be bred out by next gen, is amusing, considering your stance. But I agree. No man should have to settle for breeding with women that are of a magnitude with those men.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

Video games and porn are a problem for sure.

So are movies, media, the quality of writing in the news, quality of conversation people experience everyday, social media, contemporary work ethic, corporate work ethic, lack of interest in public works.

Males are in crisis for sure. So is everyone else.

I didn't closely read the thread, but it's funny when the op guy is talking about males but people infer white males.

We need to think of each other more as individuals and less as labels.

Yeah i agree. The issue is that its very easy to label things these days. We all have our own personal crisis to deal with and at the same time we have a world full of issues that get ignored over silly things.