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Analysis [Power Analysis] What happens if you spec a PC like a PS5?

ZywyPL

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Amazing effort. But why would anyone build a PC specced as PS5 and pay more? While your burning more money, better shoot for 6800XT or 6900XT or the nVidia cards.

Some people just don't accept the comfy couch experience and cannot imagine gaming on something else than M+K. Also access to different genres that aren't available on consoles. Free online. Cheaper games. 60FPS. The list just goes on and on.
 

rodrigolfp

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Well today even phones can do most of the stuff, but when building a PC better aim for high specs as you get outdated easily. 32GB+ RAM and at least 6800XT/3080 if you want a decent upgrade over consoles.
Phones can give me, for example, native mouse+kb support for all my shooters since Wolf3D???
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Phones can give me, for example, native mouse+kb support for all my shooters since Wolf3D???

stare GIF
 
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Fredrik

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Well today even phones can do most of the stuff, but when building a PC better aim for high specs as you get outdated easily. 32GB+ RAM and at least 6800XT/3080 if you want a decent upgrade over consoles.
As I said. On PC you have visual settings. Consoles can have settings menus but devs don’t think console gamers can handle them so consoles don’t have settings menus. And with settings you don’t have to accept sub-60fps at mid gfx settings because some dev think the most important thing about the game is rendering the game in 4K. That’s why console gamers fight for days about 3 fps and preset settings differences between the consoles instead of just going into a menu, flick a switch and play the game.

Plus, if you want to go there. Mods. Tweaks. Upgradability. Overclocking. Triple screen gaming. Etc etc.

It’s all awesome! ❤️
 

Bo_Hazem

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As I said. On PC you have visual settings. Consoles can have settings menus but devs don’t think console gamers can handle them so consoles don’t have settings menus. And with settings you don’t have to accept sub-60fps at mid gfx settings because some dev think the most important thing about the game is rendering the game in 4K. That’s why console gamers fight for days about 3 fps and preset settings differences between the consoles instead of just going into a menu, flick a switch and play the game.

Plus, if you want to go there. Mods. Tweaks. Upgradability. Overclocking. Triple screen gaming. Etc etc.

It’s all awesome! ❤️

That's a solid point especially that most PC gamers play on tiny monitors anyway. I have a gaming PC but used as a workstation not gaming, so don't wanna go there ;)
 

keram

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[disclaimer: this is a work in progress post]

Hey fellows,
so some may remember my old Gonzalo-Thread where I simulated the back then rumoured PS5 prototype with the newly release RX 5700XT graphics cards. So back in Summer 2019 we knew nothing official on the PS5 specs. Today we know a whole lot more, rangig from architecture details to clockspeeds.


Last week the RX6700XT released and i snatched one up to do a follow up analysis. Now with an actually comparable RDNA2-based GPU and the now known CPU configuration.



This is the worst overclocker i've ever had (at stock it doesn't even quite archive the ref cards clocks) and it seems Sapphire is selecting ASIC quality for their better range of cards. In this case that's a good thing, because it means that's pretty much the worst case scenario for efficiency.

So before showing first results and explaining the methodology here's a summary of what we are dealing with.





*in case of PS5 that's total observed power draw from the wall which equates to the sum of all components TDP [on the AC side]


Further used PC-Components:

650W Gold PSU
2x8GB Samsung B-die running 3600Mhz
B450 Motherboard
Sata SSD
Sata HDD
additional fans


Methodology:

The CPU gets underclocked to PS5 levels (and undervolted to get realistic working conditions in an console environment - SOC voltages sadly aren't known for PS5 atm afaik)



The GPU is also underclocked and slightly undervolted. To understand why the frequency is set to 2.315 GHz instead of 2.23 you have to understand that there is an offset within the AMD Navi boosting algorithm that prevents it from reaching it's frequency goal. To archieve a 2.2 GHz clockrate i needed to adjust the frequency goal as shown (f_goal might vary depending on load):



Power is monitored at the wall, as well as in software via the driver sensor outputs of the measured rails.

Please note, that because of Infinity Cache the RX6700XT is expected to be a bit more efficient than the PS5. On the other hand my PC has a lot more auxiliary power load than a console (double ram pools, more fans, IO etc.)

Results (sneak peak):

Dirt 5 Ultra - Resulition scaling off

GPU frequency


FPS


Total GPU Power (driver)*


*please note: the RX 6700XT is measuring more rails than the first gen Navi 5700XT, hence the total power load output from the driver isn't comparable!!!

Power consumption whole system (at the wall)*:


Hovers around 200W constantly (video follows if demanded) without much fluctuation (+/-5W)

*please note that this figure is not directly comparable to the driver side measuremeant because of power conversion / PSU efficiency losses. 200W at the wall roughly equates to 180W on the 12V DC side of things.
What a timewaste ... PS5 != GPU :pie_eyeroll:
 
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Fredrik

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That's a solid point especially that most PC gamers play on tiny monitors anyway. I have a gaming PC but used as a workstation not gaming, so don't wanna go there ;)
Yeah I really like that you have the choice to use the power any way you want. I could absolutely play in 4K but as of right now I play on a 1080p gsync screen at 60-100+ fps at Ultra settings or power up two screens at the side for triple screen racing at ~60fps with slightly lower settings.

I don’t think consoles suck or anything like that, I use consoles a lot, like when I want to play in the living room, maybe to get home theater sound or to slouch in a couch, or when I play with the kids, or when there is no PC version, etc.

But PC gaming definitely has it’s benefits for me even if I don’t have a 3090.
 
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DemonCleaner

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it looks like i could have done a better job explaining what this thread is about :messenger_grinning_sweat:
This thread is first in foremost about analyzing the power characteristics of the used architectures and the price you have to pay to run under low power conditions.

nethertheless im somewhat disappointed of some contriubutions here (looking at you Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem )
 
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scydrex

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Your hardware magazine are a bunch of idiots. that a fact.

For 2000 euro's u can get

16 core top end ryzen 5950x, more then double the performance easily.
6800xt, more then double the performance easily
980 pro 1 terabyte 7gbps ssd
32gb of memory

How is that system comparable towards what the PS5 has?

Look PS5 value is solid and for people that don't want to deal with pc's, its great value. But saying its a 2k PC is just utterly laughable.

Were i live add to that price 38% of taxes for products or item that you buy in the internet and cost US$200 or more. To those 2000 add 760 of taxes for a total of 2760 or USD euros...
 
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3700x will be an inferior CPU 4 years later. PS5 won't be.

Ps4 equivalent GPU is literally a 750ti and CPU is literally a 1.6 ghz 8 cores Jaguar.

Try to play Red Read Redemption 2 on such a system.

1) 750ti can't push 1080p
2) It can't past any settings beyond low
3) It barely struggles to lock to 30 fps in 720p low-med settings
4) It will do low textures, regardless of its power due to its weak 2 gb vram
5) Before 750ti, 8 total 1.6 ghz jaguar cores will barely render 10-15 fps in the game


This is what happens when you try to run games on a equivalent CPU.

This is what will happen to the precious 3700x. It will render at 30-40 fps while ps5 will easily lock to 60 fps even 5 years later (at lower resolutions, that's on GPU).

And people here are still talking about using less-cached CPUs to match PS5 lmao.

3 years later, even a 5800x won't be able to match a PS5/Xbox Series X.

Games lose 1.5-2 times more performance when ported from to PC. Almost 4 out of 5 games do this. There are only few instances where it's not the case.

Only reason 3700x can still keep on because we're in a cross-gen. 4 years later, there will be CPUs that will be %80-110 faster than 3700x and it will be inferior.

I'm not even going to talk about 6700xt. It will be much, much more inferior compared to PS5.

Imagine playing games with a 1.8 tflops gcn 2 gpu from 2013. Yeah, good luck running at 1080p 18-25 fps. Or get back to me if you can run RDR 2 at native 4k with good looking settings at locked, smooth 30 fps with a rx 580 (practically xbox one x), oh noes, you cant do it because 580 will render 18-21 fps. yeah.

Console equivalent CPUs are always doomed to suffer. Only after 1.5-2 years after console releases, we will have much more stronger hardware than consoles. This time it's much more brutal than PS4. PS4 and Xbone had weak GPU and CPU to start with. This time they're very competitive. They will make lots of PCs obsolete due to the bad ports.
 
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If you have Cyberpunk, you can use this shortcut command to directly access PS5 graphical levels (you need to set your resolution before hand, I would say 1296p is a good place to start)


ConsoleEarlyNextGen
ConsoleEarlyNextGenQuality
 

Bo_Hazem

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it looks like i could have done a better job explaining what this thread is about :messenger_grinning_sweat:


nethertheless im somewhat disappointed of some contriubutions here (looking at you Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem )

It's a wonderful thread, but it's a curious question that got some good answers from Fredrik Fredrik . Personally, if PC gaming is my thing I always shoot at High-end PC gaming not low end specs like many PC-master-race-wannabe do.

Yeah I really like that you have the choice to use the power any way you want. I could absolutely play in 4K but as of right now I play on a 1080p gsync screen at 60-100+ fps at Ultra settings or power up two screens at the side for triple screen racing at ~60fps with slightly lower settings.

I don’t think consoles suck or anything like that, I use consoles a lot, like when I want to play in the living room, maybe to get home theater sound or to slouch in a couch, or when I play with the kids, or when there is no PC version, etc.

But PC gaming definitely has it’s benefits for me even if I don’t have a 3090.

I really appreciate your input and rational point of views, and I'm totally with you. As for PC gaming, if there is ever a game that I really think I need to play then I'll play it, like something too good from Xbox or something like the scam Star Citizens. So far, I would rather play on PS4 Pro before and now PS5 rather than playing on my PC with Radeon VII (a wonderful workstation card with 16GB HBM2 VRAM "1TB/s bandwidth", and a very good 4K gaming card).
 
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DemonCleaner

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In detail there are multiple differences and they are all impacting perf/watt a bit but in the grand scheme of things I would agree with Zathalus, it doesn't really matter much and RDNA2 vs. custom RDNA2 is a fair comparison.
It's very interesting that both systems are close together in terms of power draw.
Now it would be fascinating to see how performance compares.

cheers


more indepth results following. after more stability testing i changed the base spec slightly (3700x 1.0V, 6700xt 1140mV at f_goal). This time around the well known synthetic benchmark firestrike:

Scores vs System Power:








Frequency:


GPU Power:


Graphics Test 1 is the more power hungry of both tests. I gathered the wall power figure during GT1. that said, GT2 seems to be more representative for a real game workload (the frequency offset seemed to shrink during GT2 which resulted in very slightly higher clocks also)
 

DemonCleaner

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It's a wonderful thread, but it's a curious question that got some good answers from Fredrik Fredrik . Personally, if PC gaming is my thing I always shoot at High-end PC gaming not low end specs like many PC-master-race-wannabe do.
this thread is much more about PS5 than it is about PCs. im a little sad that people don't get that while reading. well i hope it will get more clear when i do the interpretation after gathering data.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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this thread is much more about PS5 than it is about PCs. im a little sad that people don't get that while reading. well i hope it will get more clear when i do the interpretation after gathering data.

Man, don't be sad. You need to comment on twitter or youtube to see how sad you'll end up ;) Keep up the great work!
 
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DemonCleaner

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ok community, i need your help:

  1. Has anyone still lying a 5700xt around? i sadly do not have one anymore. would need a screenshot of HWinfo64 showing all relevant GPU rails under load
  2. Can you help me find a scenario / data where we can actually replicate PS5 at full throttle?
Deacon made some good suggestions already
I don't know of any free demos right now, but some games you could try are Nioh 1 or 2, Dirt 5, AC: Valhalla, DMC5, etc.

DIRT5 doesen't hit 120fps the goal framerate in that mode most of the time, does it? can we replecate the settings or is dynamic res in play here?

i have WD:legion for the pc... that's locked at 30Hz on consoles. maybe there is some stress points where it dips in a replicatable manner? there was a config file with the exact console settings right?
 
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ok community, i need your help:

  1. Has anyone still lying a 5700xt around? i sadly do not have one anymore. would need a screenshot of HWinfo64 showing all relevant GPU rails under load
  2. Can you help me find a scenario / data where we can actually replicate PS5 at full throttle?
Deacon made some good suggestions already


DIRT5 doesen't hit 120fps the goal framerate in that mode most of the time, does it? can we replecate the settings or is dynamic res in play here?

i have WD:legion for the pc... that's locked at 30Hz on consoles. maybe there is some stress points where it dips in a replicatable manner? there was a config file with the exact console settings right?
Rainbow Six Siege with FPS unlocked (i heard that console version can have framerate unlocked from menu and you can even observe the frame rate)

Here's rtx 3070+r7 2700, 1440p (upscaled) med-high mix settings

the game is amazingly highly threaded and i would assume it would be the same for ps5 as well, if u can unlock frames, that is

theoritically this game can max out both cpu and gpu of ps5
 
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DemonCleaner

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ok duders, now it's getting serious:


this time around i've compiled the power draw data from the different rail sensors available.


the following is once again the Dirt 5 benchmark. but this time with Ray Tracing enabled since they added that in the last patch and i wanted to try it out (at stock settings enabling RT increased power consumption around 3W on the GPU side)

PC as described in Post 1 at stock settings:




PC at PS5 spec:



I've added the approximate power draw from the wall for convenience. the delta between the measured rails and wall power line mainly comprises of motherboard and RAM consumption as well as PSU conversion losses

On the performance side once again, you lose around 10% fps while reducing power consumption nearly by a 100 watts.
 
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DemonCleaner

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Rainbow Six Siege with FPS unlocked (i heard that console version can have framerate unlocked from menu and you can even observe the frame rate)

Here's rtx 3070+r7 2700, 1440p (upscaled) med-high mix settings

the game is amazingly highly threaded and i would assume it would be the same for ps5 as well, if u can unlock frames, that is

theoritically this game can max out both cpu and gpu of ps5

great idea. i snatched that up today (8EUR on ubistore spring sale right now) i suspect that we might get sometwhat CPU limited though. any good sources for ps5 data & settings?
 
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great idea. i snatched that up today (8EUR on ubistore spring sale right now) i suspect that we might get sometwhat CPU limited though. any good sources for ps5 data & settings?
hey, it's in the video settings tab, you just disable vsync, choose prioritize performance in the same menu

you may also test with graphics mode as well

in both modes, fps will be unhinged so device will work to its maximum potential