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PR: COLECO to release Chameleon, console that focuses on new cartridge games

onken

Member
どっかの掲示板で「ヤツのSNES FPGAはフェイクか本物か賭けようぜ」ってなってる

その掲示板でColeco ChameleonにFPGAが使われててSNESもサポするみたいな感じで書かれてるみたいだけどどうなの(流し読み

Can anyone translate? This is a tweet from the Japanese guy who is/was developing a snes core.

It says on some forum they are taking bets on whether "that" [doesn't specify, his maybe] SNES FPGA is the real thing or not.

Goes on to say that the forum also mentions the Chameleon is maybe using an FPGA for its SNES support but whether that's true or [cut]
 
From their Facebook page:
RetroVGS said:
To reiterate, we will be opening up the Chameleon for the Kickstarter campaign.

Also:
RetroVGS said:
At the moment the console will not play original ColecoVision carts. There is however going to be ColecoVision compilation carts specifically for the console. At a later date there could be adapters to play original ColecoVision carts which has been discussed, just not happening right now.

Also, apparently they claim to have licensed the entire Atari 2600 library? That or Engadget read something wrong.
http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/18/coleco-chameleon-atari-2600/

Oh, and they've been announcing Kickstarter pricing - $135 early bird special (1500 units), $150 with the pack-in game and one controller, $185 with an extra 16-bit game, $210 with an extra game and extra controller.
 

mickcris

Neo Member
From their Facebook page:


Originally Posted by RetroVGS

To reiterate, we will be opening up the Chameleon for the Kickstarter campaign.

They say they are opening up the Chameleon, not the "prototype" that was at the toy fair. There is no way they are going to show what was actually inside the "prototype".
 
This morning's announced pledge reward revealed something new: USB Colecovision controllers. The new $225 reward level includes a collection of 15 Colecovision games and a pair of "exclusive USB ColecoVision style controllers."
 

s_mirage

Member
I have no idea what Mike Kennedy is smoking, but it's very strong stuff. Even if they somehow get the money, they'd never be competent enough to finish it.

At this point you've got to wonder if he's got himself in some deep money troubles over this project and needs it to succeed.

That being said, Kevtris's posts about their decision making remind me of projects that my friends and I would come up with when we were ~12: they were always too ambitious, impossible to achieve, ever grander in scope etc. That didn't really matter though, because we couldn't really do what we set out to, and we knew it, but we just had fun talking about our ideas and playing along. What he's doing, with the ever shifting goals and wanting to use all the latest and greatest tech, sounds like one of those fantasy projects, only he's actually trying to get it done. It's like he somehow either hasn't realised that he doesn't have the skills to pull it off, or thinks that a cash injection will make anything possible.

I'm not sure what to think.
 
Christ, the Retro VGS has been quite a trip.

I wonder how far this train wreck will go? I can't imagine them ever releasing an actual functioning product.

I would buy what they're selling in a heartbeat, but I just can't imagine it coming to fruition.
 

maxiell

Member
This project has almost justified itself based purely on the amount of entertainment it has provided so far. It would need maybe one or two more kevtris essays to reach that point.
 
At this point you've got to wonder if he's got himself in some deep money troubles over this project and needs it to succeed.

I agree. I suspect part of the urgency of making his Kickstarter when he has no running prototype is because he needs to float RETRO magazine. It's now several months between new issues and there's been rumblings that the magazine isn't doing too well. In a SEGAnerds podcast posted yesterday, Mike talks about how everyone who gets a console will get a subscription to RETRO (which they've mysteriously omitted from all of their bundle announcements) and he also says that the console company will pay the magazine company for each issue. If that "free" subscription they're charging each backer for is a digital version, then you have your answer.

Also, he's stated before that he will have a portion of RETRO magazine devoted to the Chameleon and the console will pay the magazine the standard rate for advertising per page from the Kickstarter proceeds. This thing is going to leak money like a sieve.


Also, why start another thread? There's already been like 4 or 5 threads for this topic that only ever needed two at the most. Just ask the mods to change the title.
 

Khaz

Member
New thread for new news, etc. The kickstarter will be relayed in the media and it would be interesting to have a nice OT to educate potentially interested gaffers on the subject. Maybe lock the older threads instead.
 

Bar81

Member
New thread for new news, etc. The kickstarter will be relayed in the media and it would be interesting to have a nice OT to educate potentially interested gaffers on the subject. Maybe lock the older threads instead.

So that we can have yet another attempt to sweep all the issues under the rug and have a PR spin bonanza. No thanks.
 

Mega

Banned
New news does deserve a new thread. The OP can link back to past threads and have quoted posts that summarize the troublesome situation to date.
 
This morning's announced pledge reward revealed something new: USB Colecovision controllers. The new $225 reward level includes a collection of 15 Colecovision games and a pair of "exclusive USB ColecoVision style controllers."

...and now they announced an Intellivision pack with Intellivision-style controllers including game overlays. So now we have three different types of controllers these guys are licensing/manufacturing for the device.

Edit: they said that for the Colecovision controllers they are manufacturing them themselves - "We are the first ones making such a device. It will also be PC compatible. It will be available to buy individually after the KS campaign."
 
Retro Magazine just posted a podcast...

http://readretro.com/features/talk-retro-24/

They get into the Chameleon... I'm sure it's totally keeping it real. (I think it starts around 55m)

"It's not an SNES in a Jaguar shell. I am at the booth..."

"It's using SNES games and SNES controllers... The COLECO Chamelon controller was there, it just wasn't hooked up."

"It was a proof of concept to show retailers"

Edit:
"The back of the unit WAS a salvaged unit from the back of a SNES itself"

Oh my god. Why would they do that? What would be the point? SALVAGED? It's not like a car and you can mishmash shit together.

They're saying that the Chameleon ISN'T for the nerds buying it, but it's for KIDS and FAMILIES. They aiming for it to be on the shelves at a Wal-mart. And they're just talking about how digital downloads don't make good gifts to kids to open. (Darn, if only there was some alternative to that...)

These guys are off their rocker.
 

Glowsquid

Member
They're saying that the Chameleon ISN'T for the nerds buying it, but it's for KIDS and FAMILIES. They aiming for it to be on the shelves at a Wal-mart. And they're just talking about how digital downloads don't make good gifts to kids to open. (Darn, if only there was some alternative to that...)

These guys are off their rocker.

lmao, tapping into the lucrative market of kids who desesperatly want to play Jim Power
 

Tripon

Member
Retro Magazine just posted a podcast...

http://readretro.com/features/talk-retro-24/

They get into the Chameleon... I'm sure it's totally keeping it real. (I think it starts around 55m)

"It's not an SNES in a Jaguar shell. I am at the booth..."

"It's using SNES games and SNES controllers... The COLECO Chamelon controller was there, it just wasn't hooked up."

"It was a proof of concept to show retailers"

Edit:
"The back of the unit WAS a salvaged unit from the back of a SNES itself"

Oh my god. Why would they do that? What would be the point? SALVAGED? It's not like a car and you can mishmash shit together.

They're saying that the Chameleon ISN'T for the nerds buying it, but it's for KIDS and FAMILIES. They aiming for it to be on the shelves at a Wal-mart. And they're just talking about how digital downloads don't make good gifts to kids to open. (Darn, if only there was some alternative to that...)

These guys are off their rocker.
Uh, good luck getting it on shelfs on Walmart.
 
Well, Wal-mart does have a habit of letting shit rot on store shelves.

xYssRdX.jpg


Also, thinking about it now. They literally are admitting the back half of the Jaguar WAS the SNES Jr. wrapped in electrical tape. (At least just the back half of it) Doesn't that contradict an earlier explanation?
 

Rich!

Member
Well, Wal-mart does have a habit of letting shit rot on store shelves.

xYssRdX.jpg


Also, thinking about it now. They literally are admitting the back half of the Jaguar WAS the SNES Jr. wrapped in electrical tape. (At least just the back half of it) Doesn't that contradict an earlier explanation?

It contradicts the earlier assumption that they have functional brains
 
"The back of the unit WAS a salvaged unit from the back of a SNES itself".

Bullshit. If that's the case they could post a video showing the guts, like, now, and how these guts attach to a SNES back panel. They could post this while a game is running for true proof.

But they can't do that. Because they are committing fraud. The "prototype" they showed isn't custom silicon. It's a SNES.
 
Retro Magazine just posted a podcast...

http://readretro.com/features/talk-retro-24/

They get into the Chameleon... I'm sure it's totally keeping it real. (I think it starts around 55m)

"It's not an SNES in a Jaguar shell. I am at the booth..."

"It's using SNES games and SNES controllers... The COLECO Chamelon controller was there, it just wasn't hooked up."

"It was a proof of concept to show retailers"

Edit:
"The back of the unit WAS a salvaged unit from the back of a SNES itself"

Oh my god. Why would they do that? What would be the point? SALVAGED? It's not like a car and you can mishmash shit together.

They're saying that the Chameleon ISN'T for the nerds buying it, but it's for KIDS and FAMILIES. They aiming for it to be on the shelves at a Wal-mart. And they're just talking about how digital downloads don't make good gifts to kids to open. (Darn, if only there was some alternative to that...)

These guys are off their rocker.
The Chameleon stuff starts at 53:30 if you want to listen yourself
 

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
There are already Intellivision and Colecovision Flashbacks at Toys 'r Us for cheap.

If this is for kids instead of retro enthusiasts, why even have an FPGA. Just use emulators on an Android device.

btw do we know if they actually announced Atari support? Or did these so-called journalists mistake https://twitter.com/colecochameleon as an official source?
 

Mega

Banned
That's total nonsense. Kids and families have no interest in Coleco, Atari, cartridges, niche consoles, etc. Casual gamers are all about mobile, digital downloads, free or low cost games, quick and instant entertainment. Nintendo are the one major exception when it comes to kids' interest in retro stuff and that's of popular franchises being sold as sub-$10 digital downloads on modern systems, not website orders for $20-$40 carts of obscure and homebrew games.

Did Mike actually say "not for the nerds"? If he did, that's really derogatory to the people who would be the core group of backers. This guy is always shitting on the people who would be most interested in a legit product and who can see through someone trying to peddle BS.
 
Yeah I'm sure kids will be ecstatic when they get games like this for christmas

48663-smurf-rescue-in-gargamel-s-castle-colecovision-screenshot-gargamel.gif


I don't believe anyone can be delusional enough to think this, so I'm going with con
 
I want to think that instead of it being some kind of scam, these guys are just delusional and believe there is this huge, untapped mainstream market for old school games that come on cartridges, as if a cartridge is at all novel to modern children. Granted, I think there is a niche market for this kind of nostalgic, physical media, but it's comprised of older, hardcore "nerds" and is probably already being served by stuff like IndieBox or the various reproduction cart sites out there.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Retro Magazine just posted a podcast...

http://readretro.com/features/talk-retro-24/

They get into the Chameleon... I'm sure it's totally keeping it real. (I think it starts around 55m)

"It's not an SNES in a Jaguar shell. I am at the booth..."

"It's using SNES games and SNES controllers... The COLECO Chamelon controller was there, it just wasn't hooked up."

"It was a proof of concept to show retailers"

Edit:
"The back of the unit WAS a salvaged unit from the back of a SNES itself"

Oh my god. Why would they do that? What would be the point? SALVAGED? It's not like a car and you can mishmash shit together.

They're saying that the Chameleon ISN'T for the nerds buying it, but it's for KIDS and FAMILIES. They aiming for it to be on the shelves at a Wal-mart. And they're just talking about how digital downloads don't make good gifts to kids to open. (Darn, if only there was some alternative to that...)

These guys are off their rocker.

How can the back of the prototype comes from a salvaged SNES but not the rest? He hooked two PCB together like magic? It's going exactly like last time. They keep doubling down on when challenged and keep digging their grave deeper.

The change of heart about the target audience is a bit weird for many reasons. Mike absolutely wants to offer limited edition carts, controllers and consoles to get money from collectors and those people aren't generally kids and families. The Coleco brand also seem to be used as a nostalgia tool to get older gamers that were kids back then to buy the Chameleon. Kids probably don't care about FPGA core either, they would be just fine buying on of those cheap Sega emulation console.

So they licensed the whole Atari 2600 library? Even Atari didn't manage this as most collection on console and steam are incomplete. He's going to correct the bugs in all of those too, right? It's supposed to be bug free games.
 
It's funny that Mike approaches the marketing problems of his console with a "if you build it, they will come" attitude as in- build whatever the hell you want and the right customers will magically appear. He's an optimist to a fault. He could just as likely fall prey to "if you build it, you're a damn moron."

In Thursday's SEGAnerds podcast, Mike said that people will buy his retro console because "most people don't have a Genesis" which is true, I doubt anyone else on my block owns one. But I don't think anyone else on my block wants his console either. His market is composed of people who already own a Genesis, SNES, NES, etc. and collect.

The sick part is that he's trying to court companies that reproduce games for the SNES and other retro consoles by offering a new platform to buy these games on. A platform no one ever asked for or needed. He's a leech, he sees that some people are doing well in the retro scene, so he wants to invent a way to elbow in on their business.
 
The sick part is that he's trying to court companies that reproduce games for the SNES and other retro consoles by offering a new platform to buy these games on. A platform no one ever asked for or needed. He's a leech, he sees that some people are doing well in the retro scene, so he wants to invent a way to elbow in on their business.

That seems so backwards. Maybe I'm not familiar with the repro SNES scene, but I always figured the appeal to it was that A) collectors already had SNES', so they didn't have to buy a whole new console just to buy games for and B) there is certain measure of nostalgia people hold for the SNES, it's cool to see new games in the old format you played as a kid, that a completely new and unfamiliar console will not be able to trade off of.
 

DiscoJer

Member
Yeah I'm sure kids will be ecstatic when they get games like this for christmas

48663-smurf-rescue-in-gargamel-s-castle-colecovision-screenshot-gargamel.gif


I don't believe anyone can be delusional enough to think this, so I'm going with con

That game was awesome. However, they likely can't distribute it.

I guess they could hack the colors so the Smurf is Red and thus a gnome
 
That's total nonsense. Kids and families have no interest in Coleco, Atari, cartridges, niche consoles, etc. Casual gamers are all about mobile, digital downloads, free or low cost games, quick and instant entertainment. Nintendo are the one major exception when it comes to kids' interest in retro stuff and that's of popular franchises being sold as sub-$10 digital downloads on modern systems, not website orders for $20-$40 carts of obscure and homebrew games.

Did Mike actually say "not for the nerds"? If he did, that's really derogatory to the people who would be the core group of backers. This guy is always shitting on the people who would be most interested in a legit product and who can see through someone trying to peddle BS.

It wasn't Mike. It was whoever was on the podcast from the magazine. Mike wasn't a part of it, but the people were definitely defending it.

The sad thing is I've met Mike in person many times, and I know he's a nice person and means well, which is why I find this behavior so compelling because there's limitless paths to honesty and redemption, but he keeps on choosing to make it harder to believe him.

He's a business man. In addition to Retro magazine, he also runs GameGavel, a game auction site that's survived far longer than I ever expected.
http://www.gamegavel.com/

I truly believe that he got in over his head, and associated with people that keep telling him things that can't come true. I know he has connections and works with smart people. I don't think he's out to scam people.

I mean, hell, most of us are here because we want to believe in this, right? There is something interesting about a Jaguar-shaped console playing some retro and retro-styled games, right? Not for the price, but to watch some stuff flourish. (People put homebrew games onto NES carts and shit) There is SOME kind of market for this, or else the Retron 5 wouldn't even be marketable.

I just keep hoping that one day they post a "Let's be honest" blog post after this is all done explaining how they got in over their heads. I want to think it's more of a "means justify the ends" situation to them.
 

LayLa

Member
I just keep hoping that one day they post a "Let's be honest" blog post after this is all done explaining how they got in over their heads. I want to think it's more of a "means justify the ends" situation to them.

Thing is Mike already tried that after the last Kickstarter tanked, promising that he'd learned from his mistakes and next time there would be full transparency (while throwing everyone else on the project under the bus). And yet here he is making the same mistakes all over again. I'm amazed anyone gives him the time of day after the last clusterfuck tbh.
 

Khaz

Member
I mean, hell, most of us are here because we want to believe in this, right? There is something interesting about a Jaguar-shaped console playing some retro and retro-styled games, right? Not for the price, but to watch some stuff flourish. (People put homebrew games onto NES carts and shit) There is SOME kind of market for this, or else the Retron 5 wouldn't even be marketable.

Personally I'm in here for the drama. And the train wreck.

There is potential for an FPGA-styled Retron5. In fact many of us were disappointed when it was revealed that it was ARM emulation. But the people who do buy the Retron5 currently don't care about it. They see the convenience, they see the HDMI, they don't care about accuracy, compatibility or input lag. They just want a quick nostalgia shot a couple of minutes every few months.

He says he wants to market it to the plebe. Fine, but the people buying the Genesis Classic Console or the Atari Flashback won't go for an overpriced, FPGA enabled console. Their nostalgia has limits and once they're ready to spend more they will usually go the original hardware route.

Then he says he wants to target the kids. The kids don't fucking care about an expensive console playing cheap old videogames. They play on their parents phone and tablets, lining blocks on Candy Crush. If they know about the other kind of videogames, they will want the real deal, aka a PS4. If they are too young for that and parents want to give them old videogames, they will give them the Namco Joystick Console, and we're back to the first category.

If they want to target the adult retrogamer, then yes they will have to go full FPGA and stop their current PR fuckups. There is a market for the Minimig and The Kevtris™, but it's a very small market, maybe in the thousand units at best. And the multi-console aspect definitely doesn't fit in a Jaguar shell. They would be marketing to a very, very tech-savvy audience and anything less than full disclosure and customer input will result in a failure.

Then there is the (aborted?) Modern Retro Console concept, that would be playing modern indie game in cartridges, aka the Ouya with a cart slot. It could have been cool, I would have been interested in having a physical edition of modern games that would play instantly without OS bullshit, natively in 240p on a RGB CRT. But this idea is fundamentally opposite to the FPGA concept and can't possibly be merged with it unless making a FPGA+ARM $600 monstrosity that no one would ever buy. Not to forget the lack of software upgrades or general online connectivity that made no sense at all.
 
"When the time comes to launch the official Kickstarter for the Coleco Chameleon we will be posting pictures showing the actual PCB that will be used in production for the console. The console will be FPGA and ARM based. It will have HDMI video for sure and possibily composite if we can sort PAL issues, which will happen before launching the Kickstarter."

Welp, looks like the ARM is still in.
*sigh*
 
Welp, looks like the ARM is still in.
*sigh*
Why is that a problem? Without the ARM it couldn't get any new retro-style games except ones written for classic consoles. Also you need a processor that can program the FPGA, and you can get some damn cheap ARM CPUs if you want. I can't think of a single downside to the presence of an ARM CPU.
 

LewieP

Member
Why would any developer target this device when the costs associated are massive, the market will be tiny, and there are no discernable benefits over Steam, PSN, Xbox live, eShop, iOS, Android etc. The very notion that digital distribution is unappealing to developers of modern retro styled games is beyond insane.

I think that a device offering accurate emulation of retro consoles would be appealing to a decent sized niche, but I wouldn't trust these clowns to make it.

There entire pitch is "wouldn't it be great if the last 20 years of progress never happened".
 
Why is that a problem? Without the ARM it couldn't get any new retro-style games except ones written for classic consoles. Also you need a processor that can program the FPGA, and you can get some damn cheap ARM CPUs if you want. I can't think of a single downside to the presence of an ARM CPU.

Because nobody wants that.
If the ARM is required to program the FPGA then it's a necessary evil, I suppose.

I seem to recall them saying that something on the carts would be what programs the FPGA though, so if that's still the case, then the ARM is entirely unnecessary.

This should be a box that plays old games made for old architectures and then new games written for old architectures.

Not new games written for new architectures that just happen to look like old games.
 
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