Dreamwriter
Member
I don't think it's a bad thing for them to hold onto information - a big part of their problem before was over-communication. Especially when they'd talk about things before having the design locked down.
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PR: COLECO to release Chameleon, console that focuses on new cartridge games
- Thread starter Tripon
- Start date
Dark Ninja
Member
I like that Super Nintendo controller inside another controller.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Can we get a grain of confirmation at anyone from Double Fine? These guys' claims are dubious to say the least.
crimzonflame
Member
Can I play Super Metroid on this?
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Whilst I mostly agree it just strikes me as an unnecessary and overly fearful move. It's fine for them to keep quiet regarding their own plans dropping info when they feel it is appropriate but stretching the radio silence to their partners which really they shouldn't have the ability nor the authority to do puts a dark cloud over this.
However at a target $150 price point and a much more modest goal in the region of 300K for their funding campaign and launching on the vastly more popular Kickstarter - this console now has an almost 100% chance of success at least in terms of their crowd funding campaign. They've adjusted the parameters sufficiently to assure almost guaranteed success.
All I want from them now is to announce some killer games for this and maybe some decent developers behind them and I'd be on-board again. They seem to be making the right moves this time.
NoFaceNico
Member
Welp. The AtariAge thread has been locked.
No concrete details yet as to why yet, but the thread blew up again when Mike returned asking for forgiveness but then went on the attack.
Apparently admins are out of town, so it could be as simple as them not wanting to let things to get further out of control so now they're just putting a moratorium on discussion until they get back.
Oh well, just interesting happenings from the front lines. She was a beautiful thread though...
No concrete details yet as to why yet, but the thread blew up again when Mike returned asking for forgiveness but then went on the attack.
Apparently admins are out of town, so it could be as simple as them not wanting to let things to get further out of control so now they're just putting a moratorium on discussion until they get back.
Oh well, just interesting happenings from the front lines. She was a beautiful thread though...
Anything new there since Mike published private emails to some random Konami employee?
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Followed most of the thread and outside of the mysterious "we're not allowed to talk to the press" radio silence that was presumably ordered by Mike the worrying thing I noticed was comments from developers stating that they're no longer committed to the system. The Chameleon for example has lost its previous pack-in exclusive Tiny Knight. That is now destined for other systems and is only a potential "maybe" that it's even still coming to the Chameleon according to CollectorVision. Same with GunLord. That along with other Neo Geo games are no longer confirmed for the Chameleon because Mike didn't maintain contact with the developers according to the forum posts that I read. The system seems to be losing games.
Mike really needs to stop waging warfare in these threads and just leave the discussion be. He always seems to end up fanning the flames and making things worse.
I'm still interested in how this saga concludes because I find it fascinating but the signs aren't looking positive.
NoFaceNico
Member
According to them, they'll be announcing games throughout January/February.
It says those will be launch titles. All the news outlets were reporting that the console will launch in 2016, but I think [or hope] they may have misinterpreted the Kickstarter launch date with the console delivery date. Delivering the same year the campaign ends is cutting it real close, especially for the developers who I assume will still be expected to deliver bug-free games *eye roll*
The CollectorVision thing is kinda weird. Tiny Knight won't be exclusive but it started out as a SNES game anyways so that's no surprise there, no one's going to hold out on releasing their game while they wait for the RVGS to finally succeed. They have another game, Sydney Hunter, which I believe is still confirmed.
Another funny thing is that CollectorVision acquired the Acclaim license, not unlike RVGS getting the Coleco License. I actually hope this becomes a trend. Someone get LJN already!!!
In one of your previous posts you said the console will probably make it with a $200k-$300k goal I want to agree with that after seeing how much other gimmicky Android boxes have been able to raise, but I'm starting to think even that is far fetched. The days when a cell phone in a box with HDMI out could raise millions are long gone, I don't think people who go to Kickstarter are that gullible anymore.
Take this console for example, which came with its own gimick and had to resort to fraud to make it to $200k (they had mysterious "unnamed investors" carry them to exactly 100% of their goal... oh, and the project has since failed).
It says those will be launch titles. All the news outlets were reporting that the console will launch in 2016, but I think [or hope] they may have misinterpreted the Kickstarter launch date with the console delivery date. Delivering the same year the campaign ends is cutting it real close, especially for the developers who I assume will still be expected to deliver bug-free games *eye roll*
The CollectorVision thing is kinda weird. Tiny Knight won't be exclusive but it started out as a SNES game anyways so that's no surprise there, no one's going to hold out on releasing their game while they wait for the RVGS to finally succeed. They have another game, Sydney Hunter, which I believe is still confirmed.
Another funny thing is that CollectorVision acquired the Acclaim license, not unlike RVGS getting the Coleco License. I actually hope this becomes a trend. Someone get LJN already!!!
In one of your previous posts you said the console will probably make it with a $200k-$300k goal I want to agree with that after seeing how much other gimmicky Android boxes have been able to raise, but I'm starting to think even that is far fetched. The days when a cell phone in a box with HDMI out could raise millions are long gone, I don't think people who go to Kickstarter are that gullible anymore.
Take this console for example, which came with its own gimick and had to resort to fraud to make it to $200k (they had mysterious "unnamed investors" carry them to exactly 100% of their goal... oh, and the project has since failed).
ThatStupidLion
Member
Does this play all old cartridges too or just new ones made for this?
NoFaceNico
Member
I tried to make a joke, then a serious answer but they both turned out equally confusing.
Okay, it uses the old Atari Jaguar shells, but newly manufactured. But it's not compatible with the old Atari Jaguar games. The games it will play are supposed to look old, but they're new. But they might not be new on the market because it will take time to make sure they're bug free, so they'll be old once you get them. Does that make any sense?
Dreamwriter
Member
Quick, simpler answer: no, this is not like a Retron-5, it doesn't play classic console games.
farmerboy
Member
It'll sell about 100.
Then as an old man I'll chuckle when I see a collector buy one for $50000.
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Ah right good to know. It seems you're just as fascinated by this console as I am and thus have your finger on the pulse in regards to new news so I appreciate hearing the update. It'll be interesting to see if their new launch line-up is any better than the quite honestly anaemic and underwhelming launch line-up of the Retro VGS but it does genuinely sound like they may have better game announcements planned this time at least in terms of quantity. Price and the launch games are what killed them last time - that and probably a tidal wave of negative sentiment specifically due to their pricing announcement so we'll see how they fare for round two.
As for their potential success I think they have a shot. Not a definite, assured shot but a much higher chance of success as compared to last time. If they can legitimately deliver on their renewed plan (working prototype, price in the $150 range, decent launch line-up with compelling software and stronger developer support) I think they're more than in with a chance. I think what I was trying to convey in my previous post was that they have a much better chance of success relative to last time because this time they're learning from their previous critical errors and attacking this with a stronger, more educated plan in generating their second shot at this.
Stating that they have Double Fine on-board (the most notable developer so far that probably wouldn't have ever gone anywhere near the Retro VGS in its previous incarnation) makes me super curious as to what these new game announcements are going to be. Could they have some of the heavyweights on-board finally? I'd love some megaton announcements. Back with the Retro VGS Mike name dropped Phantasy Star as a potential dreamlike title to have. However out of the realm of possibility a new Phantasy Star may be if they could get something of that calibre for their launch as their killer app then this console might actually be able to set the retro world on fire. But that's me I suppose, forever the optimist.
I just find this all so fascinating and love reading about it. I'll be watching all of this with interest across January to see how their launch line-up shapes up.
Beer Monkey
Member
To save money, they use the molds that made Jaguar shells.
Fun fact: to save money, Atari used IBM Micro Channel (PS/2 computer) connectors for the cartridge slots.
Yep, the cartridge slot was physically compatible with PC peripheral cards that were made for a new PC bus design that failed.
Fun fact: to save money, Atari used IBM Micro Channel (PS/2 computer) connectors for the cartridge slots.
Yep, the cartridge slot was physically compatible with PC peripheral cards that were made for a new PC bus design that failed.
NoFaceNico
Member
You and me both, brother. I love all the twists and turns in this saga. I know for 95% of GAF this is the most boring and pointless waste of time, but I don't care it's endlessly entertaining to me.
I disagree with that. It's part of Mike's revisionist way of remembering how things turned south. He's trying to pin the first defeat on John Carlsen, his "hardware guy" for over-engineering the original vision. I agree that the high price (and impossible goal) and mediocre launch games crippled them but the fatal decision that was sure to kill any crowdfunding attempt was Mike's choice to go back on his promise to not ask the public for money until he had a working prototype, that's where they failed the first time and took the most criticism.
They definitely have a chance now that they promise they'll have a working prototype ready soon, if they don't their chances return to zero. I'm just wondering if they have a good chance, but a lot can happen between now and then.
... well, let's see. I'm not going to say anything, we'll just have to wait.
I actually hope they do get some big names involved and at the price they're shooting for right now they probably do have me as a backer. But my reasons are selfish, I want the story to go on.
Vipershark
Member
Do we actually know this for certain, though?
They never confirmed eiher direction when it was still the VGS and I seem to recall them vaguely saying that potentially bringing Kevtris back on board was still a possibility for them. (And then of course Kevtris aid he'd still do it if they actually paid)
Regardless though, they said that the whole Coleco merger "caused a complee redesign of the hardware".
Not to mention the PR quote in the opening post:
Can play old games, can also play new (old-styled) games.
Still no confirmation on what it can do. Let's wait for specs.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I know they're pretty much unaffiliated. Just with all the talk they had about hardware emulation before, I'm hoping they take that and build in an extra connection to the name all in one swoop.
The PR certainly does make it sound like it's gonna play some sort of old games. It's possible it could mean they signed some existing games on for re-releases though.
The PR certainly does make it sound like it's gonna play some sort of old games. It's possible it could mean they signed some existing games on for re-releases though.
NoFaceNico
Member
Y'know, this thing is going to be using an off the shelf board (probably a BeagleBone Black). Whoever owns the Atari name should cash in a 30 year old grudge and make their own console that uses the exact same board and able to read Chameleon cartridges and the RVGS guys won't be able to do anything about it.
That would be the company formally known as Infogrames (aka GT Interactive).
QuixoticNeutral
Member
Thank heavens they kept the correct ABXY layout.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Maaaan, this fucking thing. This is made for people like me, but I want nothing to do with it.
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Guys the only connection this has to the now defunct Coleco is the usage of the name. There's no way in hell this'll have any connection nor compatibility to the ColecoVision. There is no Coleco any more. They just have permission and an agreement to use the previously dormant brand name to try and give this some kind of respectability and authenticity. The previous incarnation of the Retro VGS with the magic chip they were going to use (that would have allowed this to run say Genesis games via an expansion module) is gone. This will just play new retro games ported to or specifically developed for the system. Think Tiny Knight or Adventures of Tower of Flight - or any of the other games this was confirmed to have last time.
Games from Coleco systems or indeed any other console are not happening any more which they intentionally did to get the price down to ~$150. Retro compatibility with anything else is gone.
EDIT: I meant ColecoVision! Edited this post to reflect the change.
Games from Coleco systems or indeed any other console are not happening any more which they intentionally did to get the price down to ~$150. Retro compatibility with anything else is gone.
EDIT: I meant ColecoVision! Edited this post to reflect the change.
NoFaceNico
Member
No, I'm pretty sure this console actually works like a pump-and-dump scheme.
When a big console manufacturer gives a little tease, it's a sign of bigger things to come. Like if Sony tweeted "Expect to see a old friend make a #CRASH on stage at E3!" that would send people into a frenzy because it indicates they have something big they're cooking up. But when Mike teases something big like "It'll play all the classic games you loved!" then prepare to be disappointed down the road because it was all marketing fluff.
That's what their press release and teases really are. They want to pump up interest by saying it'll do anything and everything you've ever wanted a crowdfunded console to do, and hope that the interest will still be there after the letdown. Gee, I can't possibly imagine how this can backfire on them. But I'm sure it's all a just brilliant PR move that I just don't see yet.
Coleco Intellivision, wut.
The current Coleco rights holders have allowed Coleco-related hardware to be released - Colecovision Flashback and the Colecovision Super Game Module. If someone wants to make the hardware, it doesn't look that hard to get the license to do so - as can be seen by the Retro VGS being rebranded. I don't think it's all too farfetched for the Chameleon to accept Colecovision carts.
Ghost_Messiah
Member
Sorry dude I meant the ColecoVision! And yeah whilst it's possible I don't see it happening. They're much more limited on the hardware front now to keep the cost down. This'll play games made for the system and not much else IMO. They could throw a curveball and say it'll play games for other systems but I'm pretty sure that idea is just dead now.
This right here times a thousand. It's all a massive void of empty promises and overzealous marketing to which they absolutely do not have the capability to deliver. Mike promises heaven and earth and then just fails to fulfil those promises in spectacular fashion and then he gets confused as to why there's so much fire and negative sentiment surrounding his console across forums like this one. He really needs to temper the hype he keeps generating because thus far the Retro VGS hasn't lived up to anything he's said as of yet.
Didn't know that. Funny, but smart.
Yup. Dead companies' names are valuable and often get bought by licencing groups. That's why you see so much electronic crap with the name Polaroid on it. Even Commodore's name pops up every few years.
I don't get why Coleco just ripped off a Wii U Pro Controller.
Cause it's a great controller.
With the Coleco branding I *highly* doubt they're allowed to make it play games for other systems such as the NES. If it does *any* retro system, it'll be ColecoVision only.
It's a shame nobody ever does anything interesting with the Commodore name though. Android Smartphones, really?
IrishNinja
Member
dat jaguar shell though
can't front, i wanna see what games it gets! only hardware im following for 2k16 is the FPGA/zimba3000 so far
can't front, i wanna see what games it gets! only hardware im following for 2k16 is the FPGA/zimba3000 so far
NoFaceNico
Member
I want to see Kevtris go head-to-head with Mike on Kickstarter. It would be so rich if he did a surprise launch of his own campaign the same day as Mike's and steal his thunder.
Plus, hurry up already, Kev!! My money is getting impatient.
Commodore's been dead for far too long to be used for anything notable. The name only means something to boomers and gen-x at this point, and then only the geeky ones. Millennials would be like "What the fuck is a Commodore?"
Think of the old appliances from defunct companies you saw in your grandparents house, and you'll get it.
The Atari name has been bouncing around in active use enough to keep some sort of mindshare, though. (Today's "Atari" isn't Atari.)
panda-zebra
Member
That would probably be good for both parties, actually - generate some hype, give the news outlets an angle for their pieces and a bit more reason to check back in every few days and compare the two.
IrishNinja
Member
honestly, i want one just for Neo-Geo use...cycle-perfect emulation sounds great by me, can't wait for reviews! no idea to what extent it could be made to be a MAME box, but i'm eagerly waiting new info on cores.
last post he had on atariage, he was working on music stuff but said he'd be back on it soon....
ultrazilla
Gold Member
I wasn't happy with the way the first campaign went, they were called on it and listened to fan feedback and went back to the drawing boards.
I'm willing to give them a second chance and I'm not sure why there's apparently a pretty big(or more likely a very loud minority) who have nothing but contempt and ill-will towards Mike.
I know he's done Retro Video Game magazine and been pretty successful with that. The issues I've bought digitally have been fantastic.
Designing and launching a console is obviously a huge undertaking and something he readily admits they've not attempted before.
I'd prefer the bitterness and personal attacks on the Coleco Chameleon guys be taken elsewhere and keep the thread here focused on the system, games and excitement people have for it.
I'm really looking forward to it and I'm ready to back it on Kickstarter with the caveat being there's no big *surprises* this time ie: high price. And for the record, he said the system will be "significantly cheaper" then the first campaign price point.
I know it probably won't be the "next big thing" but as a 43 year old gamer who grew up on cartridge gaming, I'd love to have a Coleco Chameleon and boxed games on cartridges next to my PS4, Xbox One and Wii U.
So good luck to Mike and crew, they have my support!
I'm willing to give them a second chance and I'm not sure why there's apparently a pretty big(or more likely a very loud minority) who have nothing but contempt and ill-will towards Mike.
I know he's done Retro Video Game magazine and been pretty successful with that. The issues I've bought digitally have been fantastic.
Designing and launching a console is obviously a huge undertaking and something he readily admits they've not attempted before.
I'd prefer the bitterness and personal attacks on the Coleco Chameleon guys be taken elsewhere and keep the thread here focused on the system, games and excitement people have for it.
I'm really looking forward to it and I'm ready to back it on Kickstarter with the caveat being there's no big *surprises* this time ie: high price. And for the record, he said the system will be "significantly cheaper" then the first campaign price point.
I know it probably won't be the "next big thing" but as a 43 year old gamer who grew up on cartridge gaming, I'd love to have a Coleco Chameleon and boxed games on cartridges next to my PS4, Xbox One and Wii U.
So good luck to Mike and crew, they have my support!
Dreamwriter
Member
Yeah they did, it wasn't going to play classic games at all, they were clear about that point, even mentioning it in the FAQ. The whole point of the FPGA was to play modern retro-style games that were developed for the old systems. Games like Pier Solar. After all of the backlash regarding price, they said that they might eventually create add-ons that would allow classic games to be played - cartridges with built-in FPGA cores and cartridge slots. But I think they only announced that to try and make the higher price seem more worth it.
NoFaceNico
Member
Hmmm... is it possible this is just a general opinion that they've fostered as a result of their own actions?
Maybe it was when they attacked a podcast and accused the hosts (who happen to be two of the most respected names in the retro gaming scene) of being drunken commentators? Which was also very tone deaf of Mike to say, if I might add.
Or maybe it was when they broke their promise and started a crowdfunding campaign without a prototype?
Or maybe it was when they refused to acknowledge they had no prototype at all when people started getting wise to their plans and called them out on it?
Or maybe it was when the host of RetroGamingRoundup came out with details about how Mike cut him out of this project that he was involved with from the beginning and had an actual monetary interest in?
Or maybe it was when PikoInteractive and Kevtris left the team and posted horror stories from behind the scenes about how Mike and his team have no clue what they're doing?
Or maybe it was when their claims that they were in negotiations with big names in the industry were consistently exposed to be blatant lies by retrogamingmagazine and sometimes by those people themselves?
Or maybe people are skeptical because they still haven't shown us anything. It's all just talk... y'know, just like before.
The time to make a good first impression has long since passed. They can't just reset the clock at their own leisure. Especially when that company is asking the public for startup money, then the public should be warned about their past as it might have early warning signs.
Oh, and by the way- Konami would like to move forward. So everyone if you could, please stop holding the past against them. Please stop the #FuckKonami hashtag campaign. They want to start with a clean slate, after all the company should get to decide when it's ready to kiss and makeup. Please don't think that anything that happened last year is an indication of how they will approach business this year. I'm going to start a new thread about Konami and I'd like to only see fans spreading good-will in it. #GodBlessKonami
Weird place for this, but anyway, Konami will only get respect when they've earned it back. People aren't holding the past against them, they're holding the present against them.
NoFaceNico
Member
Quoted for truth.
IrishNinja
Member
damn, i don't follow retrogamingroundup/podcasts much, but this does sound like a mess. didn't even know kevtris' current project was born of this, grateful for that much at least!
DigitalScrap
Member
Heh. Them licensing the use of the COLECO name could have been a good thing had they not already screwed up so badly as Retro VGS (and, it seems they haven't learned their lesson and are only digging a deeper hole they likely won't ever be able to climb out of).
I would have likely been on board just for nostalgic reasons if the console was reasonably priced, and they had a solid line up of carts that really sold in the $20 range. My very first console that was my start in home gaming was a COLECO Marksman.
Unfortunately, them seemingly being not very business savvy and not understanding their potential market will doom them. I can't believe that they are basically going to war online with the retro community - the only likely people who would have bought their system.
Oh well.
BTW, that damn stock never stayed on the lightgun - it would fall off constantly. Lol
I would have likely been on board just for nostalgic reasons if the console was reasonably priced, and they had a solid line up of carts that really sold in the $20 range. My very first console that was my start in home gaming was a COLECO Marksman.
Unfortunately, them seemingly being not very business savvy and not understanding their potential market will doom them. I can't believe that they are basically going to war online with the retro community - the only likely people who would have bought their system.
Oh well.
BTW, that damn stock never stayed on the lightgun - it would fall off constantly. Lol
NoFaceNico
Member
I know, right!! Only on Coleco lightguns. It's so embarrassing when that happens in front of the convenience store clerk! Good luck getting the money after that happens. It may as well have a slide whistle sound effect
Personally, I still love the Atari Jaguar mold... Still have great memories of playing Tempest 2000 with my older brother.
Unfortunately, aside from introducing me to Nofacenico's youtube channel, "I love checking out weird and cheap clone consoles", nothing good has come out of this. I'll be impressed if we see decent working hardware come from this. I had it in my head that this would be a way for companies like Capcom or SNK to re-release special edition physical ports of their 90's arcade titles.
Still, even if that ideal situation happened, I don't think I could support them after watching whoever is running their facebook page attack anyone who had an honest question about not having a functional prototype.
One can still dream, I guess...
Unfortunately, aside from introducing me to Nofacenico's youtube channel, "I love checking out weird and cheap clone consoles", nothing good has come out of this. I'll be impressed if we see decent working hardware come from this. I had it in my head that this would be a way for companies like Capcom or SNK to re-release special edition physical ports of their 90's arcade titles.
Still, even if that ideal situation happened, I don't think I could support them after watching whoever is running their facebook page attack anyone who had an honest question about not having a functional prototype.
One can still dream, I guess...
Why couldn't they come up with their own company name and console name? If Nintendo's NX console-handheld platform and unified account system was called NES (Nintendo Entertainment System), that makes logical sense. It's the same guys and the same franchise's. This thing Mike is doing? They're not Coleco and this will not be a Coleco console. WHY?
There was no discernible company name. Maybe Retro I think but that is not distinct at all, and Retro VGS is too generic to differentiate the product. It needed fixing, but then they go in this obscure and strange direction. At least Atari or something of that caliber has legit name recognition to push sales and tie together with the molds!
I'm trying to keep an open mind but this doesn't give me confidence that Mike and his team can make sound decisions. This is all so weird and unnecessary.
There was no discernible company name. Maybe Retro I think but that is not distinct at all, and Retro VGS is too generic to differentiate the product. It needed fixing, but then they go in this obscure and strange direction. At least Atari or something of that caliber has legit name recognition to push sales and tie together with the molds!
I'm trying to keep an open mind but this doesn't give me confidence that Mike and his team can make sound decisions. This is all so weird and unnecessary.