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[sonycowboy]

OK. I know this looks like trouble. Sorry. I just wanted to get some reasonable responses regarding what the inherent advantages that the Xbox 360 vs the PS3 are. I've put some down to get started.

Of course, neither has been officially announced, but that will change soon enough. We will also find out some new facts which can shift the balance in one or the others favor (Exclusives, new tech, new features, etc), so this is clearly just a first blush.

We are hearing so much about how it's obvious that one of the two will happen, when it's not clear to me at all that either are true. And people seem to jump onto one side or another without giving any logical reasoning.

1) PS3 will crush Xbox360 (this gen proves it)
2) Xbox will overtake Sony, because of [X = Madden, year head start, bleed Sony to death, etc]

[b]PS3                                         Xbox360[/b]
Likely Most Powerful                        Year Head Start
Blu-Ray                                     ATI Delivers (Traditionally)
Backwards Compatible                        Xbox Live
Mindshare                                   Ease of Development (XNA)
GTA/Final Fantasy/MGS likely?               Tons of Money
First Party                                 First Party
Japanese Support                            PC Developer Support
Better PC Developer Support than this gen   Better Japanese Support than this gen
Incredible Momentum from this gen           Some Momentum from this gen
Can Change Specs based on Xbox360

NOTE: None of my points are facts as we have no facts (well some people do, but most of us don't , so feel free to provide your own listing as opposed to blasting me for my opinion. I'm honestly interested in hearing some REAL discussion as to why you think either the PS3 or Xbox360 look to have the advantage (as of now).

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Do you even play games?

 

[Drinky Crow]

get yer fanboy calculators at the ready!

 

[AB 101]

Can Change Specs based on Xbox360

Its a bit late to change specs.

Anyways, they won't need too.

 

[jett]

Do you even play games?

I've never seen him participate in actual gaming discussion...so no.

 

[Mrbob]

Fanboyz List: The Next Generation???

I use my crystal ball and notice Xbox 360 wins!

 

[DJ Sl4m]

I highly doubt the Xbox will overtake the PS brand, but I do however think Microsoft will gain ground.

My guess is 1/3% of the market for Microsoft is a very real posibility for this upcoming gen, and probably not much more.

 

[Suikoguy]

LMAO @ Money listed on xbox 360 list
If money was not a issue then the HDD would be standard again.

 

[PhatSaqs]

ugh...

 

[teh_pwn]

I think Ati isn't necessarily an advantage. Sure the FX series sucked, but these gen has been on par (at least until X850 came out) and if anything Nvidia will have more time.

 

[sonycowboy]

Do you even play games?

We've had this conversation on GAF many times. I don't go to message boards to talk about what games I'm playing or what games I should play. I'm much more interested in talking about the industry, but rest assured, I have over 100 games this generation and I play way more than my wife would like me to. And it's taken a serious hit with the birth of my daughter last month. PSP is currently the only time I've been able to carve out.

Other than posting and reading on GAF at work

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Do you even play games?

i thought I was the only one thinking this.

There is a good handful of people here who post so often and obviously have so much time to think up so many threads and compile so many lists (which I do appreciate), that I'm surprised they have time to even play any games.

 

[byproduct]

Too early to have a meaningful conversation about this. Until we've seen Madden running on both machines, listened to MS's announcements at E3 about what franchises/devs they've secured and found out the price points, it's just fanboy vs fanboy.

 

[Stryder]

This can only end in disaster, there isn't enough info available to have a thread like this just yet, and even if there were, it would still end in disaster.

 

[sonycowboy]

This can only end in disaster, there isn't enough info available to have a thread like this just yet, and even if there were, it would still end in disaster.

Sigh. I feared as much, but I had hoped. Seriously, I've seen countless posts by many many regulars pontificating on why one has the upper hand against the other, but when they get asked exactly why, they rarely give even-handed responses.

My latest example is where many on the Xbox side, said, "it's all about the games" as though that were justification for the Xbox. Same has happened on the PS3 side. Unfortunately, we don't know about any exclusivity on ANY games. We can make assumptions that Sony has the advantage just from this generation (which are subject to change) and also chalk up first party titles on each side, but otherwise it's a meaningless justificiation for one system vs the other.

 

[Mooreberg]

This thread needs CGI renders if we're going to have a worthwhile, logic-defying argument.

 

[Speevy]

I think you covered them all. However, I don't buy the idea that Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, or Metal Gear Solid will make any more difference than any past generation. I see those franchises diminishing to the point of being gone after so many generations.

And while it's not based in reality, I have a personal hope that GTA will be gone as soon as possible.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

some of those things on the list, according to some semi-informed dudes (NOT 100% believable, as they do not work for any 1st party), are wrong, backwards, or can apply to both, definitely (Even if Sony or MS have said different in the past)

 

[sscrew]

LMAO @ Money listed on xbox 360 list
If money was not a issue then the HDD would be standard again.

Well the thing is if the Hard Drive is standard, they make less money or lose money. Now they have tonnes of money to make the console successful, and can throw it all at the console if its going to benefit them. This time around,t hey have made a console they will profit from. Throwing things in like crazy stopping them from being able to profit later on is not a matter of money being an issue, but making money being on their cards.

Microsoft are first and foremost making a console which suits the needs of gamers and makes them money. They are allowing hardcore gamers the extra options like hard drive etc. to not lose them either. They wont lose money regardless of hardcore gamers or casuals. They can throw their money around for marketing or games or whatever and still have some knowledge of making it back.

 

[soundwave05]

PS3 - 90-100 million

XBox 360 - 40-50 million

Revolution - 20-30 million


Is more or less how I think things will shake down next generation worldwide.

 

[Jonnyram]

Its a bit late to change specs.

Hardly. Even 360 could change specs between now and launch.

 

[sscrew]

some of those things on the list, according to some semi-informed dudes (NOT 100% believable, as they do not work for any 1st party), are wrong, backwards, or can apply to both, definitely (Even if Sony or MS have said different in the past)

Agreed. Their is a chance PS3 might not be BC, or that Xbox 2 may be. GTA/MGS etc. are likely for PS3, but MS could purchase them for exclusives etc.

That list is whats likely to happen, but all the cards arent on the table. Say MS got BC and Sony didnt, say they bought MGS/GTA etc. then thats not just a small chance, its a huge change... likewise say Sony better Xbox Live and are willing to throw more money and actually get some MS developers.

I dont think its possible to be accurate in predicting. I hope its extremely close next-gen though, whatever happens.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I think this is the best attempt yet at starting a coherent discussion, but really it's just too early. All we would do is speculate, rather than discuss the ACTUAL advantages and disadvantages. I would suggest a topic only debating know elements (XNA, XBox Live, Sony first party franchises, etc.) than even bring speculation on the unknown into it. It just results in a pissing match either way.

Of course, the same thing happens with the PS2/XBox TODAY, so who's to say it will ever get better? :lol

 

[impirius]

On one hand, 360 is a more impressive number than 3

On the other hand, 2 to 3 seems like an easier upgrade path than 1 to 360

This will be a close race

 

[sonycowboy]

some of those things on the list, according to some semi-informed dudes (NOT 100% believable, as they do not work for any 1st party), are wrong, backwards, or can apply to both, definitely (Even if Sony or MS have said different in the past)

Agreed. As I stated above, the listing is based off of what we know as of now (or fairly reasonably assume). Obviously you could argue the power advantage, although ~most would say by virtue of the PS3 coming out later, it will have the edge. Similarly, listing the 3 franchises I did could obviously change, but it would require a change to the status quo. That is, Microsoft would have to get them to change their current allegiances. Clearly it could happen, and most of us would argue it WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN for Microsoft to seriously challenge Sony.

 

[Jonnyram]

On one hand, 360 is a more impressive number than 3

I have a suspicion that PS3 will not be called PS3 in the end.

 

[impirius]

I have a suspicion that PS3 will not be called PS3 in the end.

Whaaaaaaa?

PS21 perhaps?

 

[sonycowboy]

I think this is the best attempt yet at starting a coherent discussion, but really it's just too early. All we would do is speculate, rather than discuss the ACTUAL advantages and disadvantages. I would suggest a topic only debating know elements (XNA, XBox Live, Sony first party franchises, etc.) than even bring speculation on the unknown into it. It just results in a pissing match either way.

Of course, the same thing happens with the PS2/XBox TODAY, so who's to say it will ever get better? :lol

Again. Completely agree. But we have NO facts yet as nothing has been confirmed really. However, I still think it's a worthwhile discussion and it's not like GAF isn't known for it's speculativeness as much as it is for it's "higher" quality discussions.

 

[heidern]

I'm honestly interested in hearing some REAL discussion as to why you think either the PS3 or Xbox360 look to have the advantage (as of now).

I think it's going to come down to basic market perception. If Sony hype the ps3 to high heaven, and Nintendo release a decent system, the xbox 360 could face the prospect as being seen as the weakest of 3. With Microsoft not being market leader and not having the same credibility Sony had with the ps2 when they launched first, that could be a killer blow for them.

On the other hand, if xbox 360 is associated with the ps3, and viewed as real competition, then the userbase advantage that Microsoft will have amassed will stand them in very good stead in getting 3rd party support and they may be able to get some momentum to reall cause some damage to Sony.

 

[Speevy]

Nintendo Revolution

-Nintendo games
-Gyroscopes
-Touch Screens
-Projected 3D
-Holograms
-Support from more than 5 developers!
-Backward compatibility
-Nintendogs

 

[GhaleonEB]

Again. Completely agree. But we have NO facts yet as nothing has been confirmed really. However, I still think it's a worthwhile discussion and it's not like GAF isn't known for it's speculativeness as much as it is for it's "higher" quality discussions.

Fair enough.

For Microsoft, their early start is only advantagous in so far as they can convince their current XBox owners to adapt FAST. I strongly suspect that the XBox Live community will be the first to jump to the new platform (especially if the service is seamless between the two). The next barrier is the BC question - lots of people say it's not a big deal, but in the short term, it is a big barrier to getting people to upgrade. (I'm one of them.)

I'm tempted to say that with PS3, we pretty much know what we are going to get in terms of content; we can safely predict most of the big franchises and key developer support. I think the wild card is how far Microsoft can come to closing the gap. Their support is WAY closer to Sony's than it was two years ago, and third parties have done really well on XBox. That said, it's still an sizeable uphill battle there. E3 should speak to MS's side, since they will be pushing hard on the software front.

That's as much as I can get out with a newborn snoozing on me for now.

 

[soundwave05]

I don't see Sony faltering too much, because you have to remember it took MASSIVE mistakes and really years of pent up arrogance on the part of both Atari and Nintendo to get knocked off the hill. We're not talking about little things like they lost one or two exclusives here or made one or two mistakes there. We're talking about huge lapses in judgement.

Hearing Kutaragi talk about how he insists on the CELL chip have 8 SPEs and seeing how Sony overdelivered big time with the PSP ... I just don't get the sense this is a company that takes anything for granted. They seem very focused on making a kick ass product.

And Sony can get better themselves. I think the competition will make them better, which is how its supposed to work anyway.

I think how a lot of people couldn't believe Sony could make a product like the PSP for $200-$250 ... its going to be a similar thing with the PS3 ... people are not going to believe how much hardware they're getting for the sticker price.

 

[Mooreberg]

Will we really even know who could have the advantage after E3? We'll see plenty of Xbox 360 (I expect it to be best of show like PSP got last year, unless EA preps some really crazy Battlefield 2 presentation) but I doubt Sony will be giving too much concrete info since PS3 isn't even coming out this year. Probably some real-time videos of games running on nVidia's G70 chip or something, but it seems like most of it will be "here's what you can expect to see in 2006" talk.

 

[sprsk]

i thought I was the only one thinking this.

There is a good handful of people here who post so often and obviously have so much time to think up so many threads and compile so many lists (which I do appreciate), that I'm surprised they have time to even play any games.

do you like games

 

[Sathsquatch]

I'm predicting that Sony will win each territory but MS will be able to close the gap in the US. Sony's mindshare is easily the most important factor coming into the next generation, but MS has enough going for them to make them competitive against Sony.

MS has enough money to launch a huge marketing blitz this holiday season. Since the Xbox is seen as a powerful console with good games people will be more likely to buy into the marketing hype than they were with Sony's previous competitors. If most consumers don't realize that the PS3 will be launching next year or MS does a superb marketing job, consumers may be convinced that the 360 is the next big thing. Positive word of mouth might spread from there.

MS is also helped by EA's recent efforts to hype the next-gen Madden game. Madden alone should be enough to get the attention the masses and convince them that the next-gen starts sooner rather than later.

I think MS is taking a risk by having the weaker platform, but the easy of development might help them have games that look just as good as PS3 games for early parts of the next generation. Overall, I don't think that the PS3's raw power will be a significant enough edge to crush the 360.

I get the impression that a number of franchises have less pull than they used to in NA. Halo and GTA are both definitely strong names as are Gran Turismo and any major sports title. I think a new franchise might be more important than most of these pre-existing franchise in the same way that GTA became so important. MS should be on the lookout for a new franchise with this potential in case it pops up during their one year advantage and try to seize them up as Sony did with GTA.

Like I said in another thread, I can't see GTA being a timed exclusive for PS again this generation (at least not at first) because they won't have the huge install base to make whatever royalty fee reduction Sony could offer appealing enough to reject MS. MS could match any money hat Sony could offer, so it will probably be truly multi-platform.

 

[Speevy]

What I'm wondering is how you get games to look so good next generation that casual gamers will notice one system above the other. In other words, what specific features of the PS3 aren't beyond what Joe Madden/Grand Theft Auto will notice?

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

What I'm wondering is how you get games to look so good next generation that casual gamers will notice one system above the other. In other words, what specific features of the PS3 aren't beyond what Joe Madden/Grand Theft Auto will notice?

Nevermind, misread

 

[IJoel]

If you list GTA/MGS/FFXI you might as well list Halo for MS.

 

[Spike]

I think that Xbox 360's lead will help them to overcome the Sony stranglehold in North America, but Sony will reign supreme in Japan and Europe.

Then Nintendo will crush them both! Truly, a revolution!!

Bwahahahaha!!

 

[sonycowboy]

If you list GTA/MGS/FFXI you might as well list Halo for MS.

The three I listed are third parties games that have been exclusive (mostly) to Sony for two generations (except GTA, which was on PSOne, but a bit player). I listed First Party for both sides. I'm not saying they equal each other out as that's an argument that is extremely subjective.

Microsoft could certainly sign any or all of them to be exclusive next generation, but I've gotten the feeling that most expect them to stay on the PS3, or that it will be A MAJOR COUP for Microsoft to get any of them.

 

[AntoneM]

PS3 cons:
more complex hardware and likely harder to develop for
PS1 era franchises are weakening and new franchises have not fully replaced them, most dramatic among these are the MGS series and Tekken series
Sony does not have a marquee FPS for the western markets

XBox 360 cons:
MS hasn't done a good job of creating or securing console selling franchises outside of Halo.
likely to have inferior hardware
Xbox is virtually non existent in the Japanese market, harder to get support from Japanese publishers
Doesn't have a marquee platformer (possibly will with Conker)

 

[Guy LeDouche]

do you like games

I'm here to pick up chicks.

 

[soundwave05]

Sony's gotta get a great FPS exclusive to their to the PS3, one which takes advantage of the system's extra horsepower.

There I would agree.

They went overboard with platformers this generation (Jak, Ratchet, and Sly Cooper!), they need to put that kind of focus on the FPS genre next time out.

 

[Flo_Evans]

well I think Sony clearly has the advantage based on what we *think* we know.

Mindshare: Sony. There are almost 200 Million playstations (PS1+PS2) in homes around the world (well some are probably in the trash :lol ) vs. xboxs 30 or so million.

1st party: MS has halo for their 1st party blockbuster, Sony has GT. Alot of people bought and xbox for halo, but more people bought a PS2 for GT. Advantage: Sony

3rd party: R* could go all patriotic and give GTA to the 360, but I don't see Konami debuting MGS4 on a western console. This one is really hard to call, and sort of depends on your prefrences in 3rd party games. Personly I could care less about GTA, but I will buy any system with MGS hotness on it. FF/dragon quest also hold alot of sway. I really think nintendo should go after these if they want any hope of selling any consoles whatsoever next gen.

Blue Ray: More storage is always good, could possibly be used in marketing to make the PS3 seem more advanced/better. If it ends up playing high-def movies, even better. Sony +1

BC: Although not really important in the long run, it is a nice fat bullet point and clearly an advantage when a consumer is trying to deciede what console to buy. If both are BC Sony still has the advantage of larger library.

Head Start: the prospect of next-gen this christmas is exciting, but the mass market doesn't really get behind a system till the 2nd or 3rd year. xbox360 could be seen as 'old' when the PS3 comes out. IMHO MS's biggest advantage this gen was thier more powerfull hardware. While launching 1st gives them the advantage of making the PS2 look even worse, the PS3 will be more powerfull (even if only marginaly).

Live: people who use it really love it, but last I heard it was about 2 million subscribers. While all of these users will probably upgrade, the real question is can they expand on it. To be honest I think online only really matters to harcore. The majority of console owners do not play online.

Money: While MS certainly has more money as a whole, I don't think the investors or olde Bill wants to spend all of it on the xbox, of course the same applies to sony. The diffrence is if sonys next gen machine is a huge failure - they are in deep shit. MS could continue on its merry way twards global domination and forget the xbox ever happened. How this will play out and how much each camp is willing to risk on exclusives, hardware losses, and marketing remains to be seen. (sidenote: now that would be a pretty cool game - console tychoon - you know everyone here would buy it :lol )

 

[Chrono]

I'm here to pick up chicks.

:lol :lol

I don't know if it's because I'm depressed now, or your avatar, but I actually laughed out loud.

 

[MrSingh]

256MB RAM + 64-128MB non unified VRAM is an advantage.

Continue.

 

[zork007]

The three I listed are third parties games that have been exclusive (mostly) to Sony for two generations (except GTA, which was on PSOne, but a bit player). I listed First Party for both sides. I'm not saying they equal each other out as that's an argument that is extremely subjective.

Microsoft could certainly sign any or all of them to be exclusive next generation, but I've gotten the feeling that most expect them to stay on the PS3, or that it will be A MAJOR COUP for Microsoft to get any of them.

Every GTA is or will be available on the XBOX.

MGS 2 is available on XBOX.

The creator of the Final Fantasy seriees works for MS

 

[Sathsquatch]

I think the most important thing that MS could do next generation is try to return Rare to its former glory. The strengths of Rare would strengthen MS's lineup. The FPS games would reinforce their greatest strength and further their edge in NA. The xbox also suffered from a lack of exclusive platformers, and I also seem to remember Rare's platformers were popular in Japan. Other than that, I think MS needs to try to get out the next Forza game out in order to compete with GT to make that less of a draw for Sony.

 

[Spike]

3rd party: R* could go all patriotic and give GTA to the 360, but I don't see Konami debuting MGS4 on a western console. This one is really hard to call, and sort of depends on your prefrences in 3rd party games. Personly I could care less about GTA, but I will buy any system with MGS hotness on it. FF/dragon quest also hold alot of sway. I really think nintendo should go after these if they want any hope of selling any consoles whatsoever next gen.

Hey, you never know. Seeing how they like to publish the Metal Gear Solid series on PC, 1 and 2 Substance so far, you never know if the portability between the 360 and PC might come into play. Especially considering that the PS3 might be an entirely different beast to program for.

I agree, the most likely scenario is for MGS4 to PS3, but you never know.

 

[soundwave05]

The ball is really in Sony's court.

If they want to be aggressive and come out of the gates swinging, it could become a blowout really quickly.

If they decide to let their foot off the gas pedal and underestimate MS and Nintendo, they could find themselves in some trouble.

It depends entirely on what they want to do.

For Sony it's a lot easier for them to look at the XBox and say "OK, what do we want to do to fuck these guys over?".

Maintain what you got, take away the hardware advantage MS had last time, get some great looking FPS titles, and make your online service more unified/user friendly (but keep it free).

If Sony does those things, its going to be tough to beat them. It looks like they're already headed in that direction, the PS3 chipset sounds hot, the Blu-Ray functionality is gonna be great, and Insomniac is already working on an FPS for the system. So those have to be seen as promising developments on Sony's part.