Support NeoGAF

[Spaghetti]

don't skip to the end, seeing them scream "it's garbage" and setting the game on fire for laughs will seem like they're just jumping on a hate bandwagon.

watch the review, see them pick it apart logically, and totally justify their position in calling it garbage.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Based on the video they released a few weeks back about button prompts, cinematic tropes, QTE's etc, this was a foregone conclusion. This game optimises everything they hate about a certain subset of games, and it's clear from past videos and play throughs, they often go in to games of this ilk with a lot of preconceived and pre-emptive negativity, that likely only serves to amplify their dislikes.

The game doesn't really do anything to disprove their negativity. Soooo many of the pre-release worries turned out to be completely valid and then some, including the very hyped up story.

 

[ProvenDeadly]

The only explanation I can gather for some people's absolute vitriol against this game is that many people who are into "strictly gameplay" games ala Dark Souls, Platinum, Nintendo feel this game is some sort of direct attack against their gaming preferences. Theres room for many games.

The game isn't amazing, it has many flaws. But its still decent or at least mediocre, and far from this sort of unholy abomination that some people make it out to be.

If the game was just bad people would just say "meh, it sucks" and move on. There's no reason this game deserves to be murdered, set on fire, and pissed on. It isn't fucking Colonial Marines.

Isn't the AI horrible in this game?

 

[Vik]

 

[antitrop]

These guys are completely right.

 

[jman2050]

Finally, a review that reviews it for what it is rather than what it isn't.

Ironically, only criticizing the game's design and mechanics is being far kinder to it than ignoring them in favor of its story. Because while as a game The Order is merely dull, bland, and uninspired, as a story it's complete and total garbage.

 

[loaf of bread]

Isn't the AI horrible in this game?

No. Its nothing special. But it works fine and isn't broken.

 

[ghst]

Based on the video they released a few weeks back about button prompts, cinematic tropes, QTE's etc, this was a foregone conclusion. This game optimises everything they hate about a certain subset of games, and it's clear from past videos and play throughs, they often go in to games of this ilk with a lot of preconceived and pre-emptive negativity, that likely only serves to amplify their dislikes.

how about actually attempting to engage with the specific criticism made in the review before planting your pole in the sand?

 

[funkystudent]

Good and entertaining review. Its hard to find fault in their issues.



But they didnt talk about teh graphics!

Dont they know Ready at Dawn are using the latest graphical techniques to render that lifeless brown and grey world? Wait. Let me post some screenshots I took. I just need a minute to crop out the black bars.

 

[nib95]

how about actually attempting to engage with the specific criticism made in the review before planting your pole in the sand?

Post I made in the previous thread which explains why I already disagree with many of their notions regarding some of these mechanics. This was a few weeks back.

They made some excellent points, but I also think they floundered on many others, and simply didn't get the point on many things. I must say though, I am getting increasingly tired of this sort of elitist cynicism from certain gamers, press or outlets. Watching them play through Advanced Warfare was a prime example. They looked like they had their minds made up long before even attemting to play the game. Rather than even let the story tell it's tale, they ridiculed every aspect. Hardy har my friend died, let me laugh and joke about it etc. These are jaded gamers who live to pick apart these sorts of games, that don't fit their narrow criteria. Better to accept that people enjoy both types of game, for good reason, and because variety is the spice of life.

And really you get more immersion pressing that button and watching that terrible looking Mario jump, than firing a gun in Advanced Warfare? Despite Super Mario being a classic, I'm going to have to disagree on that one. The physics, visual effects, overall graphics and sound effects to me at least, make the latter feel far more immersive, even if it isn't necessarily the better game. Super Mario may be more demanding in terms of skill, and as such require greater attention and commitment from the gamer, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is more immersive. A lot more goes in to immersion than simply gameplay feedback or challenge. The basic premise is you press a button and something happens. In one game you do a weird physics defying jump, in the other you fire a weapon with a mostly realistic looking and feeling reaction.

To me the new Mario games are more immersive than the old ones, and it's partly because of the more advanced physics, graphics, effects, shaders, colours etc, that give me that impression. The world around you in Super Mario Galaxy for example, feels more believable, scalable, explorable and magnificent, and as such is more immersive.

Button prompts and QTE's.

Also, whilst I agree button prompts staying on screen all the time is too hand holdy and unnecessary, I think they miss the point of QTE and button prompt implementation in certain games (though they are right to ridicule it in others), and why they cannot be compared to gameplay in games like Mario.

Button prompts for example, exist largely because trial and error gaming can be a right pain in the ass. When visuals and technology has gotten to the stage that in expansive realistic world's and environments, that cannot be completely open and free due to development resources and budget (as well as increased monotony and boredom in gameplay scope), we can no longer tell what is or isn't do able, a prompt can help give us visual feedback informing us of this. In Super Mario you basically just jump around platforming. There's not much information to signify beyond yes you can jump here or you can't, which you can usually tell from just distance, so it's easy. In other games, especially games you are constantly changing move set and abilities it's much, much harder. For example, how do I know in Advanced Warfare I am able to pay my respects by the Coffin unless there is a button prompt? Do these guys realise that not having such a prompt, and instead offering such an unguided scope for input, opens the gateway to mass aimlessness, and gamers not having a clue what they can or cannot do, and having to worry that they may have missed button clicking a million things throughout the game? That would be damn annoying.

Then there's the thing about QTE's, which also follows on from what I said above. Mario's movement and visual feedback is basic, and never really changes much, which is why it never needs QTE's. God of War uses QTE's as a method of not only adding some timing or skill to a more cinematic and elaborate sequence, that in other games would otherwise be cut scenes, but also gives players feedback on when or where these moments are possible, as they are completely dynamic, fall completely outside of the regular move set, and completely change based on the enemy type, boss, or sutuation. Not having QTE's as visual feedback in these moments, again just broadens the scope of randomness in trial and error, and would ultimately make the combat less fun. God of War would be a less fun, less focused and less spectacular game without these QTE sequences, but for those that don't like this sort of design, it's nice we have games that explore a mixture of approaches, so there's more diversity for everyone.

 

[The Adder]

Based on the video they released a few weeks back about button prompts, cinematic tropes, QTE's etc, this was a foregone conclusion. This game optimises everything they hate about a certain subset of games, and it's clear from past videos and play throughs, they often go in to games of this ilk with a lot of preconceived and pre-emptive negativity, that likely only serves to amplify their dislikes.

Except after discussing the shitty gameplay, they agree to judge the game on its story...

Which is shit.

 

[Supermanisdead]

Except after discussing the shitty gameplay, they agree to judge the game on its story...

Which is shit.

don't worry. he watched one of their previous videos so he knows they are bullshit.

 

[Armaros]

The only explanation I can gather for some people's absolute vitriol against this game is that many people who are into "strictly gameplay" games ala Dark Souls, Platinum, Nintendo feel this game is some sort of direct attack against their gaming preferences. Theres room for many games.

The game isn't amazing, it has many flaws. But its still decent or at least mediocre, and far from this sort of unholy abomination that some people make it out to be.

If the game was just bad people would just say "meh, it sucks" and move on. There's no reason this game deserves to be murdered, set on fire, and pissed on. It isn't fucking Colonial Marines.

Ignoring that most of the review centered on the game's story.

You would know this if you actually watched It instead of immediately post.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I didn't get that part. They were attacking/shooting the player. They're far from innocent. I haven't played the game, though.

Except the player was the one who was trespassing on their property. They were just merely doing their job guarding the place.

 

[nib95]

Except after discussing the shitty gameplay, they agree to judge the game on its story...

Which is shit.

I'm watching the video whilst playing a game of poker, so I don't want to post a response till I can post a comprehensive one and properly digest their views, but already I disagree with many of their points just as I did their last video. I will try to respond properly later on.

 

[ghst]

Post I made in the previous thread which explains why I already disagree with many of their notions regarding some of these mechanics.

congratulations for vaguely disagreeing with some generalised concerns that they spend maybe a quarter of the video discussing, before moving on to a detailed critique of its m. knight shyamalan home made porno grade storytelling.

you charge into any the order thread, so desperate to ride to its defence that you don't even know what you're defending. just a manic scattershot apologism with no hint of self awareness.

 

[firehawk12]

Red Letter Media deserve their own thread.

They already have their own thread. lol

 

[Odrion]

Gunshot fade to black? GUNSHOT FADE TO BLACK?!

 

[loaf of bread]

Ignoring that most of the review centered on the game's story.

You would know this if you actually watched It instead of immediately post.

I'm not spending a half hour watching the video, my comment isn't necessarily aimed at the video. As far as the story goes. It had plot holes, it wasn't amazing. By video game's standards it really wasn't incredibly worse than many other games. I can think of 10 good/great games with worse stories. Those games might be better games than The Order, probably have better gameplay. The Order's story was nothing special but I wouldn't say its far below par as far as video games go.

 

[tuna_love]

I'm not spending a half hour watching the video, my comment isn't necessarily aimed at the video. As far as the story goes. It had plot holes, it wasn't amazing. By video game's standards it really wasn't incredibly worse than many other games. I can think of 10 good/great games with worse stories. Those games might be better games than The Order, probably have better gameplay. The Order's story was nothing special but I wouldn't say its far below par as far as video games go.

So you wont even watch the video?

 

[firehawk12]

I'm not spending a half hour watching the video, my comment isn't necessarily aimed at the video. As far as the story goes. It had plot holes, it wasn't amazing. By video game's standards it really wasn't incredibly worse than many other games. I can think of 10 good/great games with worse stories. Those games might be better games than The Order, probably have better gameplay. The Order's story was nothing special but I wouldn't say its far below par as far as video games go.

If you don't have good gameplay or a good story, then what do you actually have?

 

[Supermanisdead]

I'm not spending a half hour watching the video, my comment isn't necessarily aimed at the video. As far as the story goes. It had plot holes, it wasn't amazing. By video game's standards it really wasn't incredibly worse than many other games. I can think of 10 good/great games with worse stories. Those games might be better games than The Order, probably have better gameplay. The Order's story was nothing special but I wouldn't say its far below par as far as video games go.

what was it again....

you charge into any the order thread, so desperate to ride to its defence that you don't even know what you're defending. just a manic scattershot apologism with no hint of self awareness.

yes, this. rofl

 

[The Adder]

I'm not spending a half hour watching the video, my comment isn't necessarily aimed at the video. As far as the story goes. It had plot holes, it wasn't amazing. By video game's standards it really wasn't incredibly worse than many other games. I can think of 10 good/great games with worse stories. Those games might be better games than The Order, probably have better gameplay. The Order's story was nothing special but I wouldn't say its far below par as far as video games go.

The thing is, The Order claims to want to be judged based on its story and its presentation. If it's going to be judged for its story, it better be way above "par as far as video games are concerned."

"Par as far as films are concerned" is like the bare minimum. If I feel more pathos from your average summer blockbuster than your work, then you've done something terribly wrong.

 

[KC Denton]

I'm not spending a half hour watching the video, my comment isn't necessarily aimed at the video. As far as the story goes. It had plot holes, it wasn't amazing. By video game's standards it really wasn't incredibly worse than many other games. I can think of 10 good/great games with worse stories. Those games might be better games than The Order, probably have better gameplay. The Order's story was nothing special but I wouldn't say its far below par as far as video games go.

The thing is, the story was the main thing that the game was supposed to be about. Everything from the graphics to the cinematic style was supposed to be in service to the story. If the best we can say about the story is that it's "nothing special" after all the time and focus put into presenting said story, and there's nothing else for the game to fall back on, that's a massive failure.

EDIT: Massively beaten by everyone above me.

 

[Toxi]

"The world's greatest genius... Built a rifle scope."

Really sums up all the imagination The Order has to offer.

 

[CygnusXS]

I mean, they basically say they'd forgive the button-prompts if they had actual choices to make beyond "proceed" and "fail state," and the game even takes away the "fail" option sometimes. I think that's a very fair critique.

 

[jman2050]

I didn't get that part. They were attacking/shooting the player. They're far from innocent. I haven't played the game, though.

The guy murdered 60 people while trespassing on THEIR property all because some rebel leader with vague assurances told him to, all without any definite knowledge that what she was claiming was true. It's like Rich said, for all he knew at the time she could have been tricking him into killing the company's guards to gain access to the warehouse to further her own goals.

 

[Supermanisdead]

the kill count part is hilarious.

 

[loaf of bread]

what was it again....

yes, this. rofl

I'm not "defending" the order. I'm trying to understand why this game in particular has such hate filled vitriol from some people. Usually bad games just get a "Its shit" and move on, some people seem actively offended by what the game did which I don't understand. If its bad its bad.

 

[BassForever]

I'm not "defending" the order. I'm trying to understand why this game in particular has such hate filled vitriol from some people. Usually bad games just get a "Its shit" and move on, some people seem actively offended by what the game did which I don't understand. If its bad its bad.

Try watching the video and maybe you'll understand...

 

[loaf of bread]

Try watching the video and maybe you'll understand...

I already said my comments aren't related to the video.

 

[arevin01]

Out of all the YouTube video reviews of the Order I've watched this is the best one yet. I wonder if their other reviews are just as good.

 

[Nanashrew]

"The world's greatest genius... Built a rifle scope."

Really sums up all the imagination The Order has to offer.

Born on the day of a lightning storm, Nikola Tesla grew up to be an amazing scientist and was one of the pioneers on electricity and what it could offer the world. Here's a scope gun!

There were rumors back then that Tesla built a death ray! There's so much you can use with that, especially in a fictional setting.

If my brother was online he'd probably tell you so much about Tesla, because he's a huge fan of his.

 

[SparkTR]

I'm not "defending" the order. I'm trying to understand why this game in particular has such hate filled vitriol from some people. Usually bad games just get a "Its shit" and move on, some people seem actively offended by what the game did which I don't understand. If its bad its bad.

I don't know about other people, maybe because this game was so hyped by Sony and there seems to be a backlash against less innovative cinematic games these days.

But these guys hated the game that much and burned it because of the ending. The ending is just a bad amateur cliche for film makers, almost a joke/parody. They couldn't believe it ended like that.

 

[Sojgat]

LOL, they really tear it to shreds.

All deserved.

 

[DrForester]

Where does Metacritic put a rating of "It's garbage", followed by the reviewers literally setting the game on fire on their scale?

8.0

 

[squall23]

I thoroughly enjoyed this. They also get bonus points for liking Hot Fuzz.

 

[Leafhopper]

Burn this game? Media is sad nowadays.

And another Order hate thread? Cmon man!

Deserves it.

 

[Snapshot King]

Movie reviewers shitting all over a game that's desperate to be a movie seems extremely appropriate.

 

[Kirbydorf]

Hmmm, whats been interesting so far in this thread fot The Order Defense Force, is no endless complaints about spoilers, like in the angry Joe review thread. In this, Rich straight up spells out the story, shocking twists, betrayals and all, way more then Joe ever did in his review. And no ones made much comment at all... Maybe the realization that noone much cares any more I guess, lol. Or that they realize how crap it is.

Also I wish I had made my GAF handle as GruffMcMillitary.

 

[freenudemacusers]

the game forces you to crouch for stealth sections? mandatory running in certain parts? really?

 

[Brad Grenz]

Gunshot fade to black? GUNSHOT FADE TO BLACK?!

Actually, it's a smash cut to a title screen.

I mean, they basically say they'd forgive the button-prompts if they had actual choices to make beyond "proceed" and "fail state," and the game even takes away the "fail" option sometimes. I think that's a very fair critique.

That's fucking stupid. Not all game interactions must necessarily be attached to choice. Sometimes it's interesting to just test a player's skill or attentiveness, or create an abstracted struggle that connects the player to a character's own trial.

 

[Yiazmat]

Amazing review. Now I kinda wanna see more things from them.

Finally, a review that reviews it for what it is rather than what it isn't.

congratulations for vaguely disagreeing with some generalised concerns that they spend maybe a quarter of the video discussing, before moving on to a detailed critique of its m. knight shyamalan home made porno grade storytelling.

you charge into any the order thread, so desperate to ride to its defence that you don't even know what you're defending. just a manic scattershot apologism with no hint of self awareness.

 

[Leafhopper]

the game forces you to crouch for stealth sections? mandatory running in certain parts? really?

You wouldn't know to do that on your own.

Obviously.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Armaros]

Actually, it's a smash cut to a title screen.



That's fucking stupid. Not all game interactions must necessarily be attached to choice. Sometimes it's interesting to just test a player's skill or attentiveness, or create an abstracted struggle that connects the player to a character's own trial.

So why does the button press exist if it has no consequence or choice at all?

It literally does nothing besides continue the game.

 

[CygnusXS]

That's fucking stupid. Not all game interactions must necessarily be attached to choice. Sometimes it's interesting to just test a player's skill or attentiveness, or create an abstracted struggle that connects the player to a character's own trial.

I think they'd prefer any game interaction that was attached to choice in The Order. They spend multiple minutes discussing this.

As far as testing a player's "skill or attentiveness" how does "press X to continue cutscene" do either in an enjoyable or meaningful way?

 

[nded]

I can only hope the thrashing this game is getting makes RAD more determined to make something good.

 

[easterislandhead]

I didn't like it when they first started but i warmed up to their streams.


It would be cool if Mike from red letter media showed up to comic con Toronto this year.

 

[Odrion]

What an incredible review btw.

The way Previously Recorded is reviewed is something I wanted to see for a while: Two dudes sitting across from one another having a conversation about it.

 

[tuna_love]

Did this just get unlocked?