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Protestors in Durham, NC bring down Confederate monument

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Nafai1123 said:
I think you missed the point.

BTW, they cannot legally remove any of these monuments in NC without changing the law, which isn't going to happen.

This is the only way.
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Do the laws preventing substantive alteration require them to rebuild the statue, or can they just leave it down?

Could it be argued that they can't legally rebuild it without committing substantive alteration?
 
SeanC said:
A lot were made and put up by racists during the time before civil rights where racists still had major power in the south (and we're still seeing remnant of to this day). It's been a long 100 years with the bullshit "Lost Cause" ideology the south still has....
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ryutaro's mama said:
Because, in the interest of reuniting a country broken by war, the US let the losers keep their heroes, flags and set up monuments. Essentially conduct business as usual, as if the war never happened. The exact opposite of what the world let the Nazis do at the end of WW2.
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DontBeThatGuy said:
America is hugely racist.
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That's so dumb (the reasons, not the way you guys explained it) they need to move on.
 
antonz said:
Majority of Confederate Monuments were put up as ways to intimidate black population and to make a statement against people who were actually in favor of equality. It was a way for the KKK and other groups to say fuck you. Its why even in states that were part of the Union we see confederate Monuments go up as recent as 2010.
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Yup, same with the Confederate flag finding it's way on state flags. It's not historical, it's about white supremacy.
 
Only monuments that should remain are the preserved battlefields and graveyards.

Wonder when places like Fort Bragg and Fort Benning get renamed
 
This didn't happen in a vacuum.

This is going to make the coming rallies and protests that much more violent and emotionally charged. I understand the excitement, but this is going to push the already radicalized further towards the terrorism we saw this weekend. More violence will be justified because "we can't let them have another one" and "we're now under physical attack."

Is escalating violence unavoidable at this point? I guess that's what I'm asking, because that's what this is going to do, and I'm sure the people protecting these statues are thrilled to have the opportunity.

Thoughts?
 
People kicking that thing in Vans like, I get your passion but if your gunna kick a statue come prepared is all.

Rest in Pieces bullshit statue.

mike6467 said:
This didn't happen in a vacuum.

This is going to make the coming rallies and protests that much more violent and emotionally charged. I understand the excitement, but this is going to push the already radicalized further towards the terrorism we saw this weekend. More violence will be justified because "we can't let them have another one" and "we're now under physical attack."

Is escalating violence unavoidable at this point? I guess that's what I'm asking, because that's what this is going to do, and I'm sure the people protecting these statues are thrilled to have the opportunity.

Thoughts?
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Nazis killed a woman

Yes, it's unavoidable.
 
The city goverment etc... should decide if they want to bring these down. Protesters taking them down is not a good idea.
 
olB0hX5.gif


Could have had them removed and placed in a museum, but nooooooo, the alt-right had to kill three people to defend statues like this. Welp, enjoy the destroyed statues in the future.
 
mike6467 said:
This didn't happen in a vacuum.

This is going to make the coming rallies and protests that much more violent and emotionally charged. I understand the excitement, but this is going to push the already radicalized further towards the terrorism we saw this weekend. More violence will be justified because "we can't let them have another one" and "we're now under physical attack."

Is escalating violence unavoidable at this point? I guess that's what I'm asking, because that's what this is going to do, and I'm sure the people protecting these statues are thrilled to have the opportunity.

Thoughts?
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Escalating beyond showing up with assault rifles, physically beating people, and committing terrorist attacks?

How?
 
Chococat said:
I agree with you.
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I hope my post didn't imply we weren't on the same page!!

I love art, it would've been sick to have a comprehensive Civil War museum

Austin also has a ton of confederate monuments I've never been fond of, hopefully I get to watch people pull em down in person
 
marrec said:
People kicking that thing in Vans like, I get your passion but if your gunna kick a statue come prepared is all.
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I liked the part where he kicked the statue once, then stopped and was like, "actually that really hurt, but I can't pretend I didn't realize it would hurt now," then started kicking it some more.
 
mike6467 said:
This didn't happen in a vacuum.

This is going to make the coming rallies and protests that much more violent and emotionally charged. I understand the excitement, but this is going to push the already radicalized further towards the terrorism we saw this weekend. More violence will be justified because "we can't let them have another one" and "we're now under physical attack."

Is escalating violence unavoidable at this point? I guess that's what I'm asking, because that's what this is going to do, and I'm sure the people protecting these statues are thrilled to have the opportunity.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

After the death of Heather Heyer? Yeah.
 
Feels good to watch, but I worry about retaliation. The main argument for keeping these statues is that they're "historically important" or for "Confederate heroes". I think that's bullshit, but a mob of people tearing these down plays right into the "See! They're the violent ones, and they're trying to wipe out our history!" argument. Once again, that's bullshit, but people believe it. It will infuriate them and give evidence to the racists and Nazis that they can use.

Hopefully the response is relegated to angry tweets and not violence.
 
mike6467 said:
This didn't happen in a vacuum.

This is going to make the coming rallies and protests that much more violent and emotionally charged. I understand the excitement, but this is going to push the already radicalized further towards the terrorism we saw this weekend. More violence will be justified because "we can't let them have another one" and "we're now under physical attack."

Is escalating violence unavoidable at this point? I guess that's what I'm asking, because that's what this is going to do, and I'm sure the people protecting these statues are thrilled to have the opportunity.

Thoughts?
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People keep saying fighting back will make more Nazi's... let me ask where did all the Nazi's come from when there was no action?

I cringe whatever i see this argument.
 
pigeon said:
Do the laws preventing substantive alteration require them to rebuild the statue, or can they just leave it down?

Could it be argued that they can't legally rebuild it without committing substantive alteration?
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I have no idea but arguing that they can't legally rebuild it would be such a hilarious backfire for those who passed the law to begin with. Good luck fixing that POS statue either way.
 
mike6467 said:
This didn't happen in a vacuum.

This is going to make the coming rallies and protests that much more violent and emotionally charged. I understand the excitement, but this is going to push the already radicalized further towards the terrorism we saw this weekend. More violence will be justified because "we can't let them have another one" and "we're now under physical attack."

Is escalating violence unavoidable at this point?
Click to expand...

Yes? A woman has already lost her life more than a dozen others injured, and another guy beaten by a mob. It's already started, and unsurprisingly by them. Shit if we go back far enough they were hitting people at Trump's campaign stops.

Edit: And people are rightfully tired of the "Fighting back will only make the Nazis stronger" bullshit. No offense but we don't believe you. Put your money on their side if you want to end up broke. But this country isn't going to take this shit sitting down no matter how hard people cry "Intolerant left!"
 
mike6467 said:
This didn't happen in a vacuum.

This is going to make the coming rallies and protests that much more violent and emotionally charged. I understand the excitement, but this is going to push the already radicalized further towards the terrorism we saw this weekend. More violence will be justified because "we can't let them have another one" and "we're now under physical attack."

Is escalating violence unavoidable at this point? I guess that's what I'm asking, because that's what this is going to do, and I'm sure the people protecting these statues are thrilled to have the opportunity.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Let them come, then! Enough cowardice! Enough whimpering that maybe if we appease them enough this gang of murderous bullies will just go away! It is time to hit back! For God's sake, it is time to hit back!
 
Nafai1123 said:
I think you missed the point.

BTW, they cannot legally remove any of these monuments in NC without changing the law, which isn't going to happen.

This is the only way.
Click to expand...

Nah, my point was more that these statues have nothing to do with "southern heritage" and were commissioned as a fuck you to the African American community and civil rights movement.

Also, fuck these monuments.
 
If you're worried about retaliation and escalation a nazi hit an innocent woman with a car and killed her, injuring 19 others in the process, and police were either fine with it or scared because they were outgunned by a literal militia.

Keep your concern trolling to yourself.
 
Tonedeff said:
LMAO
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Haha, okay, I get how that sounded. I mean more like, let's make supporters of the Confederacy active, and not passive. It's one thing to say "oh, uh, it's complicated, it's history, removal is a process" yadda-yadda-yadda, it's another for people to actively restore these monuments.
 
Windu said:
The city goverment etc... should decide if they want to bring these down. Protesters taking them down is not a good idea.
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The government of these places is the ones that put them up because they sympathize with these traitorous fucks. The only way to show them this will not be tolerated is tear them down.
 
Proelite said:
What's so hard to understand. There are laws exiting against destruction of public property. They'll be arrested for doing so.

Morally they're in the right, but legally in they're in the wrong, so they'll be tried by a jury of their peers.

If they're found guilty, they're martyrs like the first groups of people to break laws during the civil rights movement.
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You think every crime even gets investigated? Someone would have decide to make this a priority. That person would have to be an asshole.
Then you'd need a prosecutor to give enough of a shit to bring it to trial.
Then you'd need a jury of mindless drones to convict them.
 
mike6467 said:
This didn't happen in a vacuum.

This is going to make the coming rallies and protests that much more violent and emotionally charged. I understand the excitement, but this is going to push the already radicalized further towards the terrorism we saw this weekend. More violence will be justified because "we can't let them have another one" and "we're now under physical attack."

Is escalating violence unavoidable at this point? I guess that's what I'm asking, because that's what this is going to do, and I'm sure the people protecting these statues are thrilled to have the opportunity.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

It's already gotten to the point where they're fucking running over people. The escalation has happened.

Maybe people wouldn't be so upset if the leader of this country called out the terrorism for what it was but instead he gave Nazis a slap on the wrist while complaining that he had to say anything at all.
 
i dont get the "put it in a museum" calls. we have enough confederate artifacts, we don't need random statues taking up room in the back of museums gathering dust.
 
Nice job!

A bunch of enthusiastic college students putting their effort together for the good.

Makonero said:
If I were in one of these places, I'd build a monument. Even call it "Robert E Lee Memorial" or something.

And have it be Ulysses S. Grant with his foot on Lee's throat.

Done.
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We have a monument to the War of 1812 here in Toronto you may find inspiring:

8DBIJEg.jpg
 
I really do want them to come down, but I do think they belong in history museums to allow people not to ever forget about that heinous time period.

I wonder if they can bring down that Robert E. Lee statue, but its pretty huge.
 
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