PS3 Web Browser Discussion - big upgrade rumoured for long time, but no concrete news

May 1, 2010
14,186
944
755
why do you people keep coming in this thread just to take shots at the guy for posting what he think is going on?

it's not like he is in every thread doing this he stays in this thread & post it's not hurting you if you don't want to see it just stay out of the thread or just put him on you ignore list it's real simple.
 
Dec 7, 2008
2,324
0
0
Liverpool, UK
onQ123 said:
why do you people keep coming in this thread just to take shots at the guy for posting what he think is going on?

it's not like he is in every thread doing this he stays in this thread & post it's not hurting you if you don't want to see it just stay out of the thread or just put him on you ignore list it's real simple.
Is there a way to put the thread on the ignore list as well?
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
Oct 16, 2007
13,883
2
1,065
Jinfash
onQ123 said:
why do you people keep coming in this thread just to take shots at the guy for posting what he think is going on?

it's not like he is in every thread doing this he stays in this thread & post it's not hurting you if you don't want to see it just stay out of the thread or just put him on you ignore list it's real simple.
The wild speculation is pretty amusing.
 
Dec 16, 2009
3,781
2
0
Possibly relevant to some of the recent speculation.

Sony Network Entertainment introduces Sony Entertainment Network – find out what it means to you.

On 31 August 2011, Kaz Hirai, President of Sony Computer Entertainment Inc, made some big announcements for Sony Network Entertainment at the IFA tradeshow in Berlin, Germany. The first of these is a new platform - Sony Entertainment Network. Sony Entertainment Network is the ultimate digital destination, offering access to entertainment and community, all from your PlayStation Network account.

As part of the change, Qriocity services will be realigned under Sony Entertainment Network. As a consequence, Video on Demand powered by Qriocity will now be called Video Unlimited, and Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity will become Music Unlimited.

Music Unlimited is available on a range of Sony devices including PlayStation 3, and allows users to stream over 10 million unique songs. Video Unlimited is also available on PlayStation 3, where it will continue to be known as the Video Store of PlayStation Store.

These services will add more content and branch out into new markets, starting with the expansion of Music Unlimited into Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, The Netherlands and Belgium by the end of 2011. Both services will also carry a new logo.

Visit Sony Entertainment Network's new website for more information at sonyentertainmentnetwork.com.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
funkystudent said:
the best part was when he tried using the new kevin butler ad as a hint that maybe the webkit browser as coming soon.
You missed 90% of what I was saying!

jeff_rigby said:
Starting this Holiday buying season which starts around October, the Sony ecosystem will be advertised....everything we've been reading about will be in play this holiday season and all Sony divisions will want to get these new features and products advertised.

I'd guess a subtle change from the PS3 "Only does Everything" to Sony does everything like Kevin does everything.
A large part of the Sony ecosystem is network related.

Withnail said:
"Sony Network Entertainment introduces Sony Entertainment Network" ** Full service October 2011 from "S" on-line info http://discover.store.sony.com/tablet/#entertainment/music
Withnail and /XX/ understand this and their posts reflect this fact. Network connected Sony TVs and Blu-ray players, Cameras with WiFi, S1 and S2 able to WiFi connect with a camera and transfer pictures (with DLNA) and then display on a Sony TV with DLNA, State of the Art Browsers in Network connected Sony products (including the PS3) and Movies, Music, Emagazines, Ultraviolet DRM and more.

More is coming using the abilities in Webkit browsers, (cross platform) WebGL games coming and like Playview (web technology) able to be played outside a Browser. It's starting for Sony this season.

The above also implies changes to Sony websites and of course the PS3 GTKwebkit browser turned on (10% of the post).


Edit: WebGL games outside a browser (full screen) but using webcore frees up extra memory not needed to support the GTK toolkit, parts of Glib needed active to support GTK as well as the browser front end. Webcore does not need to be connected to the Internet to be used.
Dr.Xym said:
You don't need GTK to use webkit. The engine has ports for QT, GTK, Windows, OS X etc. and likely if Sony did port it, it wouldn't be using GTK. They'd probably write their own lightweight backend appropriate to their OS.
On the XMB the GTK toolkit can be used to support webkit based WINDOWS applications like a mini-wordprocessor, Email editor, Calender or windows to display HTML information. The Sony published GTKwebkit diff files do have changes that indicate that the PS3 browser will use GTK toolkit for dialog boxes and more. It will probably be full screen.

Anyone looked at the Life with Playstation recently? Pressing and holding square then scrolling down can take you to a Sony Game category that has many PS1 games displayed with on select, videos of gameplay. This I expect is soon going to be on-line and some, since they appear to all be PS1 or PSP level games might be the coming PS Suite games.

Other features in Life with Playstation use the Netfront browser and Google Maps now breaks I guess because Google as stated after August 17th will not support older browsers for some features.


S1 and S2 now have names S1 becomes S and S2 becomes P. Seems they support both Flash (speculation) and Adobe Air as well as Android. http://discover.store.sony.com/tablet/#intro

So I could have been correct early on about Sony using Air to support applications and Ultraviolet on Android but not for the PS3 and later speculation that Gstreamer would be ported to Android to support Ultraviolet could be wrong but correct for the PS3.

I can see no other reason for including Adobe Air on an Android platform than to support Ultraviolet DRM or PS Suite or both. For Android, O3D or Adobe Air would work for PS Suite but since Air is on every platform it's the better choice. Edit: Looks like PS Suite will be something like Mono as it requires C# and runs on an engine.

Could Air applications be coming to the PS3....Android applications? Could PS Suite be an Air application? Who knows now....... This is one of the problems with trying to predict how Sony is going to implement features by functionality when the W3C is creating browser specifications to duplicate Flash functionality and Air is just Flash outside a browser and Air for embedded platforms can share a platform's webkit javascript engine. Air for Android and iOS = Air for Embedded.

More than half the work to port Air for embedded to the PS3 has already been done with the Webkit javascript engine port. I seem to remember saying that a year ago...ago...ago <grin>.

androvsky are you sure PS3 firmware 3.5 and Adobe Server 3.5 streams is just a coincidence? <grin>
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158082 said:
Media Content on the Move
Since November, PS3 owners have been able to stream photos, videos, and music stored on their PS3’s hard drive to a nearby PSP system. Consumers will soon have the freedom to access this media content wherever and whenever their PSP is connected to a wireless Internet access point. To take advantage of this feature, users will have to update their PSP system’s firmware to the next version, 3.50, slated for release next week.
PSP Firmware 3.5 supported receiving video and audio streams from the PS3 and Firmware 6.35 for the PSP from the Internet.

There are too many uses for gstreamer and it's much better for use in game than Air or Flash. In this case it's again Collabora providing Flash server 3.5 stream functionality using Gstreamer so that a webkit port using gstreamer would duplicate Flash functionality.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/sony/8636440/Sonys-200000-Adobe-Android-app-challenge.html said:
Sony and Adobe have launched a new ‘challenge’ that could reward Android app developers with up to $200,000. The move, aimed at addressing a shortage of Android tablet applications, hopes to build up the number of apps available for Sony’s forthcoming tablet computers.

The ‘Adobe AIR App Challenge Sponsored by Sony’ will “drive the creation of innovative Android applications for the two models of “Sony Tablet” devices”, the companies said. It will offer developers a chance to win $200,000 in total cash prizes.
Both companies claimed they “will enable developers to tap into native device capabilities and combine Adobe Flash technology and HTML5 to deliver unique, high-performance mobile applications using Adobe Creative Suite 5.5 and the open source Flex framework”.
These are Adobe Air apps that can be embedded in an Android wrapper and sold in the Android store or in a Vita-PS3 wrapper and sold in the Sony store or in a Air wrapper, iOS, etc.

And here is where I have a lack of knowledge, is an Air application on an Android platform any faster or more powerful than an Android application (Android O3D would seem to support a NO)? So the choice by Sony to target Air is what depending on the answer? Air is cross platform (Open Screen Project) to just about everything while Android is just Android. Adobe Air and Flash are already supported by the Vita CPU & GPU but the PS3 would be a custom write and would come later and if PS Suite is Air then Sony comments that it is coming later make sense. Edit: C# and Mono
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
GNOME 3.2 to feature "web application mode" Again, Ubuntu Linux will have the Gnome 3.2 desktop shell and by default the same GTKwebkit we will have (front end browser will be different). The Gnome 3.2 desktop shell is a browser desktop. The Gnome 3.2 shell supports both Cairo and Cairo-Clutter applications (Clutter is an upper level version of Cairo with more features. The Google Chrome OS uses Clutter as does MeeGo.) The webkit core is identical on all platforms but the support on a platform for webkit can vary. In this case the PS3 and Gnome Shell 3.2 support for GTKwebkit is nearly identical (Gnome Mobile libraries). It follows that what is possible on Gnome 3.2 is possible on the PS3 provided Sony is supporting a XMB browser desktop and it looks like they are doing this.
Submitted by razvi on September 1, 2011 - 01:43

It seems that the upcoming GNOME 3.2 (September 28th) will incorporate some interesting goodies, among which the "web application mode" stands brave.

Months ago, Firefox introduced "App Tab" (one could "transform" a tab into an "app" by "Pin as App Tab"), a simple way to gain some space on the tab-bar and quickly launch a website, but all of this is main web-browser-dependent and exposes the page in the same manner as the other "regular" tabs do.

Epiphany Web Browser will feature an "web application mode", meaning your preferred web-page will literally become almost an app, totally independent of the main web-browser (the main instance) and, when clicked, will have a minimal UI with just a titlebar.

The application is sandboxed to a given domain, so, if you are trying to go to other page by clicking a link you will be forwarded to a normal browser instance.

Epiphany's "web application mode" uses the existing cookies of the main browser (no need to login again) and, by being independent of the main web-browser, it doesn't crash, if the main browser crashes.

To transform a web-page into a "web app", you will need to only right click when you are on that particular page and select "Save As Web Application
Edit: This is what can be done on a browser desktop. Will we get this feature; there are several issues (save, load and windows) that Sony would have to implement in the PS3 OS, simple to do really but it would also open up the PS3 to third party apps that don't have to come through the PS Store. But so does the browser, this "Save as App" makes it more convenient. Web apps can be run off-line. For me, this one feature would make up for the loss of other OS Linux. Will it happen......I'd have to say no, not without a push from us.

No one reading and understanding what these features in Gnome 3.2 imply? This is big! If handled properly, it could be big for Sony in PS3 user perceived value.

http://iloveubuntu.net/empathy-32-probably-feature-complex-log-viewer-fancy-new-ui-and-more

Pulse Audio echo cancellation finished and testing. Was probably part of PS3 Firmware 3.7 and it was too large to allow Xgame Chat.



Gnome's Media Explorer works similar to the PS3 XMB. There are differences but a couple make sense. 1) Movies should start with a default frame display and advance at the bottom which disappears in a few seconds but can be brought up when the cursor is moved off the bottom of the screen. Pressing triangle requires knowledge of the feature.

I can understand now why Sony does not have a File chooser for AV. It simplifies the UI for the user but makes the setup more difficult when trying to access files from a networked PC. The DLNA 1.5 controller feature I think is going to address this. Still I think it's time to also include a file browser/chooser.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
onQ123 said:
why do you people keep coming in this thread just to take shots at the guy for posting what he think is going on?

it's not like he is in every thread doing this he stays in this thread & post it's not hurting you if you don't want to see it just stay out of the thread or just put him on you ignore list it's real simple.
Thanks,

Speculation should be challenged but with facts or other plausible theories. Pot shots that do not add anything to the discussion are not appreciated.

I've upped my estimate of accuracy from 80% to 90% after reviewing PS3 Firmware features from 1.8 on. From functionality PS3 firmware 3.0 contained an unfinished port of Cairo, gstreamer, pulse audio and glib. This has very strong support from a number of angles.

1) Collabora received a PS3 developer kit Edit November 2007
2) PS3 Firmware 3.0 was released September 2009 Looks like it's using Cairo
3) Marlin Gstreamer DRM which in the PDF states it's used by the PS3 released 2009.
4) Playview was first shown September 2009 and March 2010 at Cebit and uses web technology (Shown on a PS3 and PSP) <two Collabora secret projects> Edit: removed SVG, it's web technology supported by web kit support libraries Gstreamer with Cairo bindings.

All the above could use the support libraries for a GTKwebkit port.

5) Firmware 3.5 (September 2010 contained a webkit javascript engine that requires Cairo
6) Some streaming DRM is needed for Hulu and other IPTV.

7) Sony disclosed GTKwebkit and listed the support libraries March 2011 after webkit and Cairo were declared stable and the WebGL standards were finalized. Gstreamer and Pulse audio were not finished, had not reached 1.0 status.

All the above are facts! The following is speculation.

8) Firmware 3.7 contained a 1.0 finished version of Pulse audio and updates to the audio portion of Gstreamer (probably 1.0).

9) Firmware 3.7 also included a new Gstreamer blu-ray player by Collabora from the separate OEM branch. This uses the gstreamer core in the PS3 and that is 1.0 finished. Plugins are still being updated (PS3 plugins would be partly custom Sony so may be finished).

Firmware 3.0 was the start of a total rewrite of the PS3 OS. Firmware 4.0 will be the end product of the major changes. Support for this is all over NeoGAF in discussion of features in various PS3 firmware versions and in this thread.

androvsky's arguments can be used in reverse now. Knowing that the functionality in the webkit libraries can support the features we see in firmware 3.0 and later, why would Sony have used custom code or other libraries when they knew they were going to port GTKwebkit to the PS3 and would have those libraries in the PS3 eventually.

He who does not want to be named from the Beyond 3D 2010 thread HTML5 on consoles stated that Sony must port webkit to the PS3 to be relevant; "the consoles have no choice but to follow suit. HTML5 is an important and powerful media platform". This was what prompted me to join this thread. It was an obvious business NEED for Sony. I and others assumed it was coming but did not put together that Sony was already half way through a porting process. Support libraries fully integrated into the PS3 with the final step the webkit port. A wait for finished versions of support libraries and webkit made this a 2 year project. You also have to understand that the PS3 did not have a full OS, only the bare minimum to support games and as such could not support an easy port...there was nothing there to support webkit.

IF you look at the comments caused by this thread "Big upgrade rumored for a long time" you can understand why Sony did not announce their plans. Much of the ridicule I'm receiving is generated by the Long time it's taking causing disbelief.
 
Sep 19, 2007
7,940
1
0
jeff_rigby said:
1) Collabora received a PS3 developer kit September 2007
Yep. Well, it was November 2007, but close enough. Still can't tell from that post if Sony sent them a free kit to get some software made, or if Collabora purchased one so they could play around with a Cell+RSX, since it was just before the price cut on dev kits was publicly known. Hopefully they got the discount! :)
2) PS3 Firmware 3.0 was released September 2009 Looks like it's using Cairo
Okay, here is the main reason I'm replying to this post. "Looks like it's using Cairo" is not only not a fact, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I've seen you make this assertion before, how does one tell if an application (XMB in this case?) that's already using accelerated draws is using Cairo, OpenGL, or direct writes to the RSX? It's especially confusing since Cairo itself is an abstraction layer, and could be using OpenGL to handle drawing.
3) Marlin Gstreamer DRM which in the PDF states it's used by the PS3 released 2009.
Well, the pdf I found merely states that the PS3 (and PSP, and Sony TVs) use Marlin DRM, which was widely known. It also states that the gstreamer plugin is one of many options for PC playback of Marlin-encrypted videos. It does not state that the PS3 uses gstreamer. Is there a PDF that says otherwise?

4) Playview (SVG) was first shown September 2009 and March 2010 at Cebit and uses web technology (Shown on a PS3 and PSP) <two Collabora secret projects>
I honestly don't know here, but where was it stated Playview uses SVG? A lot of what it's doing is smooth scaling of large photos, which isn't what SVG is really designed for.
 
May 1, 2010
14,186
944
755
OgTheClever said:
Is there a way to put the thread on the ignore list as well?
yeah by not clicking on the thread that says " PS3 Web Browser Discussion - big upgrade rumoured for long time, but no concrete news"
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
androvsky said:
Yep. Well, it was November 2007, but close enough. Still can't tell from that post if Sony sent them a free kit to get some software made, or if Collabora purchased one so they could play around with a Cell+RSX, since it was just before the price cut on dev kits was publicly known. Hopefully they got the discount! :)
Are you using the Index page I created or Google? I assume you are taking this quote in a different light:
Back at the office I am admiring the PS3 Devkit Sony has sent us, the thing is quite big, but not as big as I feared. Tim will be starting hacking on it in the very near future to see what we can do. This means of course a partial return to the gaming industry for Wim, so maybe we will end up making a PS3 sequel to Wim’s game Puffy’s Saga (face-wink.png)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27618869&postcount=392

1) PS3 Developer kit Sent us
2) Partial return to the gaming industry. How do you partially return to the gaming industry? With Applications yes games No.
3) And who is Tim = In his day-to-day work at Collabora Multimedia, Tim often integrates GStreamer into applications and devices

I too went through your logic path and found it did not fully support my position until I went one step further and looked for who Tim was. With that understood the underlined words totally support my take. After this date Collabora changed to a Multimedia Support company. Gstreamer is the perfect Open source library choice for Sony a multi-media company. Look at the Collabora projects page and assume all are going to be in the PS3. How many can be confirmed to this date?

Don't you find it interesting that I posted about Collabora creating a blu-ray player and within days with PS3 3.7 a new blu-ray player is in the PS3. Gstreamer 1.0 locked and Dolby 7.1 and 3-D blu-ray menus for the new blu-ray player are implemented in 3.70.

This is a lock for me. Collabora was sent a PS3 developer kit to see what they could do to integrate Gstreamer and Gstreamer with Cairo bindings into the PS3 OS to support a GTKwebkit browser. This inititated by the Alp Tolker (Collabora) GTKwebkit Sept lecture two months before receiving the Dev kit in November.

Edit: And androvsky, all Sony 2011 Networked TVs and blu-ray players have gstreamer and Cairo disclosures and are not using them for the browser. Add this to a "partial return to the gaming industry" for the PS3 and Vita and you have full support across the board for Sony Networked platforms.

Well, the pdf I found merely states that the PS3 (and PSP, and Sony TVs) use Marlin DRM, which was widely known. It also states that the gstreamer plugin is one of many options for PC playback of Marlin-encrypted videos. It does not state that the PS3 uses gstreamer. Is there a PDF that says otherwise?
If you read the entire PDF and understand that it primarily applies to IPTV (all examples are IPTV) and the PS3 was mentioned as being supported by Marlin.

The implications in this PDF are as follows:

1) There is a separate OEM DRM branch of Gstreamer Player in addition to the open source. The Collabora Blu-ray player must be from this separate branch also.

2) Knowing the above which version of Marlin IPTV player is in the PS3? Of course it has to be Gstreamer (a Netscape plugin for the GTKwebkit browser which is an accepted standard that could also be used outside a browser in the PS3 IPTV applications (Same plugin standard that Flash would use)). You arn't going to insist that Access (Air for embedded) or Playready (Silverlight) was used like I did before we knew about Gstreamer and Marlin DRM.

Edit: I did some research and as of Feb 2010 the gstreamer plugin for Chromium was not using the system gstreamer codecs and core gstreamer; Collabora blogs were talking about Google needing to fix this. Opera appears to take advantage of a platforms gstreamer core and codecs but Opera's gstreamer is not a plugin.

3) It's also possible using this PDF to support the PS3 being Linux. (Support not prove, Gstreamer is cross platform so it could support something else that was not mentioned.)

I honestly don't know here, but where was it stated Playview uses SVG? A lot of what it's doing is smooth scaling of large photos, which isn't what SVG is really designed for.
Yeah, you can't use the pictures...Pixman is a part of Cairo and that is what is used for pictures. Opps:
jeff_rigby said:
4) Playview (SVG) was first shown September 2009 and March 2010 at Cebit and uses web technology (Shown on a PS3 and PSP) <two Collabora secret projects>
OK, I see where I made a mistake. It's gstreamer with Cairo bindings which has support for Pixman and SVG not Playview SVG which can be misleading and wrong in some cases. You can support SVG in Playview (guess) but most to this point are pictures or video as you stated which would use the Pixman code in the Cairo library of OpenGL calls. Cairo is primarily associated with SVG but it contains parts of a number of other OS libraries that all (PS3) render through a library of OpenGL routines.

Okay, here is the main reason I'm replying to this post. "Looks like it's using Cairo" is not only not a fact, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I've seen you make this assertion before, how does one tell if an application (XMB in this case?) that's already using accelerated draws is using Cairo, OpenGL, or direct writes to the RSX? It's especially confusing since Cairo itself is an abstraction layer, and could be using OpenGL to handle drawing.
I saved this for last as it's the hardest to prove...it's the sum of a number of observations.

1) It does look like it's using Cairo. The "What's New" is using Pixman like functionality (trapezoid manipulation of pictures) which is a part of Cairo. (Yes custom code is possible) And another clue, hover (selection) is by Zooming.

2) We were told (at that time) an effort was being made to reduce the size of the PS3 OS footprint. Cairo can reduce the size of the OS footprint and still support more shader features and animation. The PS3 original theme changed with 3.0 and included fog (Shader feature) and X, O & triangle characters floating in the background (Animation) but used less memory (XML with Cairo bindings). Gameside an even greater effort to reduce memory footprint. The XMB as Cairo SVG icons.

3) Torne (March 2010) looks like it is using SVG text and Gstreamer. Eyepet is using Gstreamer with Cairo bindings (augmented reality from functionality) before October 2010. Both these and Play TV which I believe is only using gstreamer were not allowed into the US, I assume because of copyright law differences.

4) Firmware 3.0 2009. 2009 was a big year with Sony patents for WebGL games, Marlin IPTV DRM, Playview (Web technology) see: http://gizmodo.com/5354574/sonys-high+res-image-enlargement-engine-gives-ps3-psp-infinite-zoooooom and follow the links to Gigapan (HTML5) or Deep Zoom which is using Microsoft's Silverlight, Ajax and XML and the example given is the Hard Rock Website. http://timemachine.gigapan.org/wiki/Main_Page So some deep thought about the Internet and Web technologies was taking place before 2009. As I've shown, Sony was in contact with Collabora in late 2007.

Why this issue is important is that the webkit port and webGL will work better if Gstreamer and Cairo are native to the PS3 and have been fully integrated with the PS3 OS and hardware accelerated codecs. The PS3 is a special case for webkit integration in that it was missing the OS tools to support webkit.

The GTKwebkit support libraries were chosen because they result in a smaller OS footprint and at the same time more features. An effort to duplicate Flash technology with open source which was one of the goals of the W3C resulted in the development of Open source webkit support libraries that supported (gstreamer with cairo bindings) augmented reality. And guess what, Eyepet and features Sony is touting for the Vita feature augmented reality which is supported by webkit support libraries.

This is important so I'll state it again, Cairo includes code from a number of Open Source software projects to include the rendering functionality needed for the W3C recommendations. A Gstreamer player was developed and integrated with Marlin DRM to provide the functionality of a Flash Video stream (3.5) player. And Playview as web technology can be viewed on another platform with Air for embedded.

Being informed of the above by Collabora in 2007 or realizing it themselves Sony set out to rewrite the PS3 OS to incorporate these new feature and at the same time reduce the size of the PS3 OS. In parallel, Collabora and others were doing the same with the Linux Gnome shell.

I realize that some can still have doubts until something comes out of Sony but it's a stretch to assume the above is not the case not the other way around.

Androvsky, Sony had PS3 OpenGL sometime 2008-2009, I remember reading about it in a GDC developer slide show. Porting CairoGL to the PS3 required almost no changes as seen in the Sony webkit LGPL disclosure (Confirms OpenGL and Cairo). The XMB is XML and there is a XML library with Cairo bindings. Changing the XMB to use CairoGL should have been pretty easy. Gstreamer would have been harder but they had help from Collabora. Gstreamer and GTK toolkit required a glib port to the PS3.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
More screenshots of the Vita Browser Another site slightly easier to use.



In the Following picture notice the Picture icons on the left which are a part of the Sony playstation site and are menu links to different parts of the Playstation site. This I expect is part of the New design.
Sony is developing a PlayStation Network design upgrade that could transform the online environment into a more image-driven layout along the lines of Xbox Live and Steam, Reg Hardware has learned.

Many PSN users say the current PSN is far too text heavy, so Sony is now market-testing a new design that de-clutters the screen using what sources familiar with the new look call "an aesthetic layout with logically marked sections and rolodex lists".
On the left a rolodex list of SVG Picture icons to navigate the New PSN.

Browser control icons are on the right and of course are SVG.



My opinion: Now that we are finally seeing Vita browser screens I would assume, since I believe the Vita and PS3 are using the same GTKwebkit and both had to wait till Gstreamer 1.0, Pulse audio 1.0 and GTK 3.2 were released, that we will see the PS3 GTKwebkit browser soon. Vita and PS3 may be using a similar looking browser front end written with the same GTK toolkit and Cairo.
 

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
Jun 15, 2006
23,820
0
1,165
I wonder what the icons to the left mean.

edit:
they seem to have a different icon pack than the right side browser icons, maybe they are apart of the vita OS menu? or just apart of the webpage?
 
Jul 26, 2007
1,226
0
0
Bad_Boy said:
I wonder what the icons to the left mean.

edit:
they seem to have a different icon pack than the right side browser icons, maybe they are apart of the vita OS menu? or just apart of the webpage?
They're part of the website, nothing to do with the browser. Looks like the PS website will have a special set up for vita.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
Cyport said:
They're part of the website, nothing to do with the browser. Looks like the PS website will have a special set up for vita.
Or this is going to be a NEW Sony on-line Menu Standard already mentioned in NeoGAF. Pictures instead of Text. For all platforms since all will support SVG.

Sony is developing a PlayStation Network design upgrade that could transform the online environment into a more image-driven layout along the lines of Xbox Live and Steam, Reg Hardware has learned.

Many PSN users say the current PSN is far too text heavy, so Sony is now market-testing a new design that de-clutters the screen using what sources familiar with the new look call "an aesthetic layout with logically marked sections and rolodex lists".
 
Aug 19, 2005
2,523
1
1,150
33
usa
staticneuron said:
So if they are ever able to lower the OS footprint again, do you think they can have Xgame chat?
I'm sure they could do it now. Earlier when Sony said it couldn't be done people started to like into it. They found that CGC could be included in only costing kb's, 2 MB max.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
Red UFO said:
With the size of home media displays, you can't even see the benefits of 4K
Sony Internet site 4K is just the beginning.




Notice there is no picture for the Home 4K source. A media server can now be used but I believe the next product out in 2012 will be a 4K blu-ray probably using the GE plastic and 500Gig with full backward compatibility with current blu-ray. Cost for the 4K player in line with high end blu-ray.

In 2009 articles were speculating on the use of the then breaking news that GE's plastic division (purchased by the Saudi family) had produced a plastic for blu-ray disks that had a high enough reflectivity to support holographic blu-ray which would allow up to 1 Terra-byte disks. The speculated use was for a Wii HD, PS4 and Xbox720 and projected release dates of those new platforms 2011 when GE said that consumer drives might be available.

Edit: New News! /2011/07/ge-unveils-500gb-micro-holographic-discs-with-blu-ray-speeds/

The as-yet-unnamed disc format was unveiled earlier this week at an international symposium of high-tech companies held in Kauai, Hawaii. The International Symposium on Optical Memory and Optical Data Storage (ISOM/OSS) featured presentations by Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Samsung, Sony, and a number of prestigious Universities and research labs from around the world.

An emerging new standard for video is called “4k Resolution,” which has 4,000 lines of horizontal resolution. GE’s micro-holographic discs would be ideal for storing videos in 4k Resolution as the video size will undoubtedly trump that of Blu-ray. It would also offer significantly sharper picture and color quality thanks to an increased level of detail.
Projection from 2009 GE news release would have both PS4 and Xbox720 using these drives.
So what does this mean? It means that Holographic Optical Media can be read by Blu-Ray devices but doesn’t have to be limited to Blu-Ray technology. This also means that Sony and Microsoft could potentially build optical drives around the convenience of current and past generation media formats while embracing Holography for the most demanding of next-generation game development on the Xbox 720 and PlayStation 4.

For those wondering about price and economic convenience, just know that by 2012 the research shows, according to the article, that “…holographic discs using its technology will be less than 10 cents a gigabyte — and fall in the future.”

By 2011 holographic discs are already expected to be cheaper per gigabyte than the $1 per gigabyte ratio of Blu-Ray when it launched in 2006. I don’t know about anyone else but the timeframe really seems to coincide nicely with the suspected launch of the new consoles in 2011.

So is it possible that the PS4 could bypass a Blu-Ray only format for an HOM/Blu-Ray combo? And would this be a good move for Microsoft, especially given that a player that can read Blu-Ray can also use HOM? Well, time will only tell but I would definitely look forward to the consoles if they did use this kind of optical storage medium, given that storage capacity would no longer be a pang for developers.
New drives will be backwardly compatible, cost about the same as current blu-ray drives but will be able to read disks with more than 10 times more information (500 gig and up).


4K media support in the PS4 follows to fill out the 4K ecosystem chart above.

Thanks to Patsu on Beyond 3D

Sony F65 (8K down sampled to 4K) image sensor better than film. If you look at the purple 2K and compare it to the blue 2K down converted from 4K you can see the Picture detail that is gained with this method. The same I think applies to 4K blu-ray down converted to 2K for current 1080P TVs.



Sony 8K video sensor: The new F65 sensor is reported to have 20MP resolution and send 16-bit raw data at speed of 20Gbps. The optical array area is 24.7 x 13.1 mm, diagonal is 28 mm.





http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2011/09/sony-image-sensor-business-presentation.html Thanks to onQ123

Sony, if the business plan above is accurate, is going to push consumer camera resolutions both still and video to above 4K with 3-D and 4K in the same video cameras. Consumer cameras will then need a display platform in the living room, something that can edit and play/display 4K+ resolutions and 3-D = PS4 With FOSS Gstreamer editor possibly PiViTi.



Sony is projecting a massive increase in Cmos image sensor production and a move to UHD. This confirms the Nagasaki plant purchase was for increased image sensor production but the F65 is a 120 fps at 4K and 60fps at 8k resolution = 20Gbps which is going to need fast memory and processor....cell? HDMI can not support these speeds so Display port a certainty in coming 4K TVs and PS4.

Playview is a 4K by 2K viewer and package for distributing media. This would seem to indicate a coming resolution Standard for Sony. Playview like players would allow viewing of 4K media on lower resolution TVs via zooming.

Edit: Confirmed, PS3 to display 4K stills in early 2012



Sony PDF on 4K Projection

Sony pushing and financing 4K Digital theater systems

Sony is treating and supporting commercial Theatre operations as an Ecosystem

SHOWEAST 2011, HOLLYWOOD, Fla., Oct. 25, 2011 – Sony Electronics’ Digital Cinema Solutions group is expanding its menu of purchasing and financing options with a new lower up-front cost, no interest Virtual Print Fee (VPF) Program. This newest program further enhances Sony’s efforts to help make the digital cinema conversion easier for exhibitors of all sizes.

“The transition to digital cinema is a reality, but so are the conversion costs for an
exhibitor,” Tim Smith, Vice President, Business Development, Digital Cinema Solutions, Sony Electronics. “That’s why Sony has put in place several flexible purchasing and financing options for exhibitors in North America that can make converting to digital easier and more affordable.”

Sony has deployed its 4K projection systems under studio VPF agreements with
exhibitors of all sizes across several countries. Payment agreements are in place with all six major U.S. studios for a variety of territories, as well as more than 100 independent studios worldwide.
http://www.dcinematoday.com/dc/pr.aspx?newsID=2555 said:
xpanding Sony Electronics’ formidable full-service digital cinema solution for exhibitors of all sizes, the company today debuted the latest addition to its portfolio at ShowEast 2011: video-based business intelligence services made possible by Sony’s Security Systems Division in combination with Envysion, a leading Managed Video as a Service (MVaaS) provider.

The solution combines Sony’s industry-leading lineup of surveillance cameras and video analytics with Envysion’s best-in-class MVaaS technology to deliver instant and actionable business insights to an exhibitors’ loss prevention, operations, marketing and human resources groups, without straining IT departments or exhibitor networks.

The video-based business intelligence services add to an already extensive collection of digital cinema offerings from Sony Electronics designed to address every part of an exhibitor’s business, including fully DCI-compliant Sony 4K projection systems with 3D; integrated software and servers; digital signage solutions with displays, controllers, and software; installation, monitoring, maintenance, content creation and distribution services; and financing programs to help theaters modernize their operations in the most cost-effective way possible. For information on any part of Sony Electronics’ digital cinema solution, visit Booth100 at ShowEast.

“Today’s modernized theater has to feature more than just the latest in digital cinema technology,” said Gary Johns, senior vice president, Digital Cinema Solutions, Sony Electronics. “Sony continues to evolve its end-to-end digital cinema offering to ensure that regardless of size or geography, any exhibitor looking to bring customers the best possible entertainment experience can do so with ease and efficiency.”

With a broader portfolio of offerings, Sony Electronics is uniquely positioned to fully support exhibitors making the switch to digital cinema and 4K projection technology. Momentum behind 4K technology is continually increasing, and Sony Electronics leads the industry in 4K deployments, with more than 10,000 Sony 4K projection units installed worldwide. Aiding those upgrades is Sony’s exhibitor financing and deployment deals, consisting of a range of financial programs designed to meet the needs of any size exhibitor, including an exhibitor-managed finance program, a flexible 10-year operating lease program, and a new low-cost financing program to be announced at ShowEast.
Sony 8K Monster CineAlta F65 now officially official!



The F65 derives true 4K resolution – and beyond – at the point of image capture. “4K” resolution is 4096 x 2160, which is more than four times greater than the full HD (1920×1080) spec. Its unique 8K image sensor, with approximately 20 total megapixels, offers higher image fidelity than any other digital cinema production camera. With 16-bit Linear RAW File output capability, the F65 creates the gateway to an end-to-end 4K file-based mastering workflow.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28868088&postcount=549
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28868474&postcount=552

Edit: US already planning a transition to ATSC 3.0 4k & possibly 8K broadcast TV. I still remember all the 4K is not happening arguments. This is made possible by h.265.

Sony has a PDF outlining what's possible using the existing 6 Mhz Broadcast TV bandwidth and the new H.265 codec. 4K TV channels, Multi-viewpoint, full 1080P 3-D, multi-channel Web plus advertising.
 
Sep 19, 2007
7,940
1
0
jeff_rigby said:
1) PS3 Developer kit Sent us
2) Partial return to the gaming industry. How do you partially return to the gaming industry? With Applications yes games No.
3) And who is Tim = In his day-to-day work at Collabora Multimedia, Tim often integrates GStreamer into applications and devices

I too went through your logic path and found it did not fully support my position until I went one step further and looked for who Tim was. With that understood the underlined words totally support my take. After this date Collabora changed to a Multimedia Support company. Gstreamer is the perfect Open source library choice for Sony a multi-media company. Look at the Collabora projects page and assume all are going to be in the PS3. How many can be confirmed to this date?
Those all appear to be open-source projects so the about page in the PS3's system menu should tell us everything; so, none of them? Yes, it's interesting that Collabora had a PS3 devkit, but keep in mind these are things under the "Facts" heading in your earlier post.

Don't you find it interesting that I posted about Collabora creating a blu-ray player and within days with PS3 3.7 a new blu-ray player is in the PS3. Gstreamer 1.0 locked and Dolby 7.1 and 3-D blu-ray menus for the new blu-ray player are implemented in 3.70.
No. Your evidence is that Collabora will talk about blu-ray at a conference in October, and somehow that translates into Sony dumping their highly optimized playback software they've been working on for years? Keep in mind there's a lot of patents and licenses surrounding blu-ray, and if Collabora is going to be doing open-source blu-ray playback, they'll have to be extremely careful about handling any proprietary projects with the same people. Collabora might not able to work on a closed-source implementation at all without tainting the open-source project.

Also, blu-ray is a very complex format. Sony managed to move to this new version without a huge slew of compatibility issues with existing releases; this suggests they didn't completely replace the player.


If you read the entire PDF and understand that it primarily applies to IPTV (all examples are IPTV) and the PS3 was mentioned as being supported by Marlin.
I'm talking about the PSN Video Store, it uses Marlin. The infrastructure for Marlin DRM video playback (including streaming) has been on the PS3 for years. And I did notice that the PS3 was listed separately from IPTV. If Sony adds gstreamer for just webkit apps (and maybe PS Suite?), that's a different discussion.

The implications in this PDF are as follows:
Implications don't matter here, you were talking facts, and said: "3) Marlin Gstreamer DRM which in the PDF states it's used by the PS3 released 2009."
No, the PDF does not state the PS3 uses Gstreamer, it's still your speculation. Indeed, the PDF states there are many playback options, of which, gstreamer is one. Adding Marlin to Sony's existing playback software might've been easier than switching to gstreamer; since it would be a proprietary solution not available to third-party licensing, the PDF wouldn't mention it. It's not just speculation, it's a bit of a stretch.

Yeah, you can't use the pictures...Pixman is a part of Cairo and that is what is used for pictures. Opps: OK, I see where I made a mistake. It's gstreamer with Cairo bindings which has support for Pixman and SVG not Playview SVG which can be misleading and wrong in some cases. You can support SVG in Playview (guess) but most to this point are pictures or video as you stated which would use the Pixman code in the Cairo library of OpenGL calls. Cairo is primarily associated with SVG but it contains parts of a number of other OS libraries that all (PS3) render through a library of OpenGL routines.
And you're still not showing us how it's a fact that PlayView uses any of those libraries.

I saved this for last as it's the hardest to prove...it's the sum of a number of observations.

1) It does look like it's using Cairo. The "What's New" is using Pixman like functionality (trapezoid manipulation of pictures) which is a part of Cairo. (Yes custom code is possible) And another clue, hover (selection) is by Zooming.
Yes, custom code is possible. Those effects are easily done by slapping a texture on a rectangle; an intern could do that using native RSX calls with little effort.

2) We were told (at that time) an effort was being made to reduce the size of the PS3 OS footprint. Cairo can reduce the size of the OS footprint and still support more shader features and animation. The PS3 original theme changed with 3.0 and included fog (Shader feature) and X, O & triangle characters floating in the background (Animation) but used less memory (XML with Cairo bindings). Gameside an even greater effort to reduce memory footprint. The XMB as Cairo SVG icons.
Cairo can reduce the size of the OS footprint compared to what? Compared to other open-source graphics middleware as seen on a typical linux install, probably. Compared to using libraries that directly write to the RSX, adding Cairo would almost certainly increase the size of the OS since Cairo still has to talk to the RSX.

Cairo is probably being used by the webkit port because it means they don't have to port the GTK to use native PS3 routines; it'll save them a lot of trouble to simply use Cairo's draw to image option and then send the finished image to the RSX. There's no reason to add Cairo to the rest of the OS since it'll just be an extra layer taking up more space.

3) Torne (March 2010) looks like it is using SVG text and Gstreamer. Eyepet is using Gstreamer with Cairo bindings (augmented reality from functionality) before October 2010. Both these and Play TV which I believe is only using gstreamer were not allowed into the US, I assume because of copyright law differences.
Do you have any evidence at all that Eyepet, Torne, or Play TV are using gstreamer?

4) Firmware 3.0 2009. 2009 was a big year with Sony patents for WebGL games, Marlin IPTV DRM, Playview (Web technology) see: http://gizmodo.com/5354574/sonys-high+res-image-enlargement-engine-gives-ps3-psp-infinite-zoooooom and follow the links to Gigapan (HTML5) or Deep Zoom which is using Microsoft's Silverlight, Ajax and XML and the example given is the Hard Rock Website. http://timemachine.gigapan.org/wiki/Main_Page So some deep thought about the Internet and Web technologies was taking place before 2009. As I've shown, Sony was in contact with Collabora in late 2007.

Why this issue is important is that the webkit port and webGL will work better if Gstreamer and Cairo are native to the PS3 and have been fully integrated with the PS3 OS and hardware accelerated codecs. The PS3 is a special case for webkit integration in that it was missing the OS tools to support webkit.

The GTKwebkit support libraries were chosen because they result in a smaller OS footprint and at the same time more features. An effort to duplicate Flash technology with open source which was one of the goals of the W3C resulted in the development of Open source webkit support libraries that supported (gstreamer with cairo bindings) augmented reality. And guess what, Eyepet and features Sony is touting for the Vita feature augmented reality which is supported by webkit support libraries.

This is important so I'll state it again, Cairo includes code from a number of Open Source software projects to include the rendering functionality needed for the W3C recommendations. A Gstreamer player was developed and integrated with Marlin DRM to provide the functionality of a Flash Video stream (3.5) player. And Playview as web technology can be viewed on another platform with Air for embedded.

Being informed of the above by Collabora in 2007 or realizing it themselves Sony set out to rewrite the PS3 OS to incorporate these new feature and at the same time reduce the size of the PS3 OS. In parallel, Collabora and others were doing the same with the Linux Gnome shell.

I realize that some can still have doubts until something comes out of Sony but it's a stretch to assume the above is not the case not the other way around.

Androvsky, Sony had PS3 OpenGL sometime 2008-2009, I remember reading about it in a GDC developer slide show. Porting CairoGL to the PS3 required almost no changes as seen in the Sony webkit LGPL disclosure (Confirms OpenGL and Cairo). The XMB is XML and there is a XML library with Cairo bindings. Changing the XMB to use CairoGL should have been pretty easy. Gstreamer would have been harder but they had help from Collabora. Gstreamer and GTK toolkit required a glib port to the PS3.
It seems like you keep going back and forth between Cairo (and gstreamer, and other open-source projects) being used for the future webkit apps and possible PS Suite, and the PS3 OS and XMB already being rewritten a while ago to use them. I don't have a problem with asserting with the former; Sony's already disclosed that the webkit port uses GTK and Cairo, and they'd be reasonable parts of the PS Suite.

However, taking the news that Collabora is going to talk about blu-ray playback in a month and turning that into Sony replaced their playback software in 3.70 is a huge stretch. So is saying that a few new 3D effects being added to the XMB in 3.0 means that Sony added Cairo to the XMB. Or that Marlin = gstreamer. Anyway, I've spent too long on this post as it is, gotta grab lunch.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
androvsky said:
Those all appear to be open-source projects so the about page in the PS3's system menu should tell us everything; so, none of them? Yes, it's interesting that Collabora had a PS3 devkit, but keep in mind these are things under the "Facts" heading in your earlier post.
No. There is a separate branch of Gstreamer for OEM. Collabora works for Car companies porting Gstreamer, Marlin uses a Gstreamer player for DRM, you think they are open source?

RE: "Gstreamer and Blu-ray players", remember when Sony and the rest went Blu-ray 3-D, PS3 with firmware 3.5 and only Sony Blu-ray and PS3 did not support loss-less audio...well now with Firmware 3.7 we now have 3-D lossless audio and can support Dolby 7.1 on a new USB headphone. (This at the same time Gstreamer open source goes 1.0 and now supports 3-D I.E. Faster using fewer resources.)

I find it interesting that BOTH Sony 3-D blu-ray players (Which have gstreamer in their disclosures) and the PS3 3-D Blu-ray player could not support lossless audio. Again my speculation could be behind events, Firmware 3.5 may have contained a Gstreamer blu-ray player that was not finished and with 3.7 it is or Gstreamer integrated into the PS3 and Blu-Ray players could not support loss-less audio at that time.

Firmware 3.0 was a MAJOR upgrade to the PS3. The following could have been Sony using the webkit support libraries.

Cairo
Support for new Dynamic Custom Themes
[Information Board] replaced by a [What's New] feature.
The default theme has been changed to an updated version of the 'Original' waves theme (the original theme has been renamed 'Classic').

Pulse Audio
[Audio Multi-Output] allows audio output through multiple connectors (e.g. HDMI and optical) simultaneously.
Added the ability to upsample audio stored on the internal or USB hard drive to 88.2 kHz or 176.4 kHz.
Background audio playback is disabled in the [Internet Browser] and [Photo Gallery] when the audio upsampling feature is enabled.[41]

Gstreamer
During Video playback, the right analog stick can be used to play content in slow playback, fast reverse, and fast forward.
Echo Canceller added to Accessory Settings.
Under Remote Play Settings you can now manually set a device (such as a PSP system or Sony Ericsson Aino) to be used for remote play.[39]

No. Your evidence is that Collabora will talk about "blu-ray and Gstreamer" at a conference in October, and somehow that translates into Sony dumping their highly optimized playback software they've been working on for years? Keep in mind there's a lot of patents and licenses surrounding blu-ray, and if Collabora is going to be doing open-source blu-ray playback, they'll have to be extremely careful about handling any proprietary projects with the same people. Collabora might not able to work on a closed-source implementation at all without tainting the open-source project.
Again, Collabora does open source and OEM closed-proprietary.

Also, blu-ray is a very complex format. Sony managed to move to this new version without a huge slew of compatibility issues with existing releases; this suggests they didn't completely replace the player.
A good point and only Sony not being able to support lossless audio on 3-D blu-ray players suggest that the core code might be Sony's and Gstreamer is being integrated with it rather than a totally new player.

Implications don't matter here, you were talking facts, and said: "3) Marlin Gstreamer DRM which in the PDF states it's used by the PS3 released 2009."
No, the PDF does not state the PS3 uses Gstreamer, it's still your speculation. Indeed, the PDF states there are many playback options, of which, gstreamer is one. Adding Marlin to Sony's existing playback software might've been easier than switching to gstreamer; since it would be a proprietary solution not available to third-party licensing, the PDF wouldn't mention it. It's not just speculation, it's a bit of a stretch.
Really, a stretch? Look again at the Marlin examples...the only choice is gstreamer. There is a legitimate argument that the PDF is a blueprint of already tested methods to be implemented and the PS3 did not have at that time (2009) an adaptive bitrate gstreamer DRM player but 2009 PLANS were for such a player. A PS3 gstreamer core and pulse audio needed.

And you're still not showing us how it's a fact that PlayView uses any of those libraries.

Yes, custom code is possible. Those effects are easily done by slapping a texture on a rectangle; an intern could do that using native RSX calls with little effort.

Cairo can reduce the size of the OS footprint compared to what? Compared to other open-source graphics middleware as seen on a typical linux install, probably. Compared to using libraries that directly write to the RSX, adding Cairo would almost certainly increase the size of the OS since Cairo still has to talk to the RSX.

Cairo is probably being used by the webkit port because it means they don't have to port the GTK to use native PS3 routines; it'll save them a lot of trouble to simply use Cairo's draw to image option and then send the finished image to the RSX. There's no reason to add Cairo to the rest of the OS since it'll just be an extra layer taking up more space.

Do you have any evidence at all that Eyepet, Torne, or Play TV are using gstreamer?

It seems like you keep going back and forth between Cairo (and gstreamer, and other open-source projects) being used for the future webkit apps and possible PS Suite, and the PS3 OS and XMB already being rewritten a while ago to use them. I don't have a problem with asserting with the former; Sony's already disclosed that the webkit port uses GTK and Cairo, and they'd be reasonable parts of the PS Suite.
From Functionality and knowing Sony knew they would be using these libraries for GTKwebkit. Knowing that the functionality in the webkit libraries can support the features we see in firmware 3.0 and later, why would Sony have used custom code or other libraries when they knew they were going to port GTKwebkit to the PS3 and would have those libraries in the PS3 eventually.

Sony had PS3 OpenGL sometime 2008-2009, I remember reading about it in a GDC developer slide show. Porting CairoGL to the PS3 required almost no changes as seen in the Sony webkit LGPL disclosure (Confirms OpenGL and Cairo). The XMB is XML and there is a XML library with Cairo bindings. Changing the XMB to use CairoGL for rendering should have been pretty easy. Gstreamer would have been harder but they had help from Collabora. Gstreamer and GTK toolkit required a glib port to the PS3.

I'll give you that it only looks like parts of the XMB are using Cairo (which is what I said) if you will consider that Meemo, MeeGo, The Chrome OS, iOS and Android are using Cairo or something similar for their drawing routines because it is more efficient. Your point that it would be less efficient to use an upper level library to draw rather than direct to RSX might be correct in some cases but not for a more complete OS that must support applications as witnessed by all other handheld operating systems mentioned above. And after compiling the cairo upper level language isn't it direct RSX code?

We have been told that the PS3 is getting many of the Vita "Network" applications and my take is that the PS3 OS now supports those applications but didn't before 3.0. Where one draws the line as to when these webkit support libraries were ported to the PS3 is probably irrelevant to most. We go back to my belief that Sony is using webkit support libraries and has since 3.0 and yours that Sony will not use them in the PS3 OS beyond supporting a webkit browser and perhaps multiple one at a time applications. There will be XMB features that will prove this issue.

Edit: Quite a few posts ago I mentioned PiViTi a gstreamer based video editor which at that time was written using Python and required X windows support. I stated that we should look for Collabora to upgrade PiViTi to use GTK3 so that it could be ported without Xwindows and we might then see a more robust and feature rich video editor on the PS3; It's happening. Sony will want to support 3D video editing and with Gstreamer 1.0 this is possible so I expect the PS3 video editor to be replaced with a newer version and at the same time more features.

Edit2: Cairo had a stable release and Sony disclosed it, Webkit had a stable release and Sony disclosed it. Gstreamer will have a 1.0 stable release and I predict that Sony will disclose it (unless they purchased the rights to use it from Fluendo/Collabora). GTK tool kit will have a 3.2 release soon and I predict that Sony will disclose it at that time. glibc apparently does not require disclosure. Geoff mentioned that more disclosures are coming.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
The Playstation Home Loot Space Theatre is using an adaptive bitrate player. The Loot Space Theatre is new and free so try it out. Sites that support (serve) an adaptive bitrate player will change the served resolution to a lower bit-rate/lower resolution to accommodate slower connections. Sites like NASA that do not have that ability constantly pause for buffer.

Of course I know the PS3 has a Gstreamer adaptive bitrate Marlin DRM player that supports: MP4, MP2TS (Playview US would use), MP4 PDCF which is used for IPTV, Torne, Playview, Home and will be used by the PS3 GTKwebkit browser. Since the GTKwebkit browser will be using Gstreamer it can detect a different codec being used and automatically switch to the correct codec.

Gstreamer conference Oct 25, 2011 subjects I'd suggest reading this page. Professionals using Gstreamer in multiple Linux embedded open and proprietary platforms. Read it here now and in the near future it will be in multiple platforms.

An example:
Damien is a Software Engineer at Intel's Open Source Technology Center working on the MeeGo Netbook project and on Media Explorer, an awesome media player. He maintains clutter-gst, the integration library for Clutter and GStreamer and, in a past life, has been advocating GNOME libraries and GStreamer in companies writing proprietary software.

Talk Abstract

Mex is a media center application with a smooth and intuitive interface to browse, search and consume media from your local hard disk, your home network and the Internet. While being extensible is deeply ingrained into Mex design to allow 3rd parties to expose all sorts of services, the playback engine remains GStreamer on all our supported platforms.

The talk will demonstrate Mex running on different platforms, including the Intel CE4100 Media Processor (a Set Top Box hardware), GNU/Linux, Windows and OS X. Highlights will then be given on specific points: how GStreamer is used as our abstraction API, how we handle in and out of process decoding transparently, how Clutter can be used a composition engine on top of GStreamer and the challenges of GStreamer integration with OpenGL.
Farsight-Utils uses GstFilters and provides the user access to multiple GstFilterManagers so they can customize the pipeline however they want. In under 100 lines of C code, a complete VoIP application can be written which supports displaying the sound level, control the volume as well as display a preview window for the video call, maybe even provide the option to record the call to a file.
Quite often you hear people talking about things with the words 'a Minority Report like interface'. The Xbox 360 Kinect system for instance is often referenced this way. But what do a system built by the guy who came up with the technology in Minority Report really look like? John Underkoffler who founded Oblong Industries after being the technical consultant on Minority Report and has been working with his team in Los Angeles to create revolutionary motion control systems. In this talk Carlton J. Sparell from Oblong Industries will talk about the technologies developed at Oblong Industries and how GStreamer fits into their system. He will also talk about some of the multimedia challenges they have encountered and how GStreamer has been used to solve them.
Jan is a GStreamer maintainer and primary author of DVD playback support, among other things. In the past he worked for Fluendo and Sun Microsystems. Currently, he lives in Albury Australia, working from home for Oracle Corporation, and hacks on GStreamer as he can.

Talk Abstract

GStreamer plays DVDs quite well, but so far has no support for playing Blu-Ray discs which are quite a different beast. This talk covers some of the background and challenges to playing Blu-Ray content, a design for GStreamer Blu-Ray support and (hopefully) a demonstration of some code.
 
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
0
0
jeff_rigby said:
Of course I know the PS3 has a Gstreamer adaptive bitrate Marlin DRM player that supports: MP4, MP2TS (Playview US would use), MP4 PDCF which is used for IPTV, Torne, Playview, Home and will be used by the PS3 GTKwebkit browser. Since the GTKwebkit browser will be using Gstreamer it can detect a different codec being used and automatically switch to the correct codec.
Marlin is a DRM "solution". It supports Gstreamer multimedia framework (along with several others). That doesn't mean PS3 uses GStreamer. Did you notice Marlin also supports a Windows Media Player plugin. I guess that means PS3 runs Windows Media Player right? I hear Microsoft is working on an Internet Explorer port for PS3!

Jesus, you continue to embarrass yourself.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
theBishop said:
Marlin is a DRM "solution". It supports Gstreamer multimedia framework (along with several others). That doesn't mean PS3 uses GStreamer. Did you notice Marlin also supports a Windows Media Player plugin. I guess that means PS3 runs Windows Media Player right? I hear Microsoft is working on an Internet Explorer port for PS3!

Jesus, you continue to embarrass yourself.
And the point is the choice is between Gstreamer and a Windows Media player which is limited to Windows platforms so by process of elimination this leaves gstreamer which we know is already being used by Sony in 2011 Network connected Blu-ray players and TVs (From Disclosures) and in the PS3 and used by the GTKwebkit (from Disclosures). Are you suggesting that Sony will have multiple players on the same platform or that Sony might not prefer using the same IP across multiple platforms if possible? It makes sense to use Gstreamer for everything AV related.

I think androvsky would agree with the above. I believe his only problem is with my stating it's a fact.

Edit: Sony change mid stream: PS suite might be Mono

Sony 2011 networked blu-ray player to use Microsoft Playready DRM rather than Marlin
 
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
0
0
jeff_rigby said:
And the point is the choice is between Gstreamer and a Windows Media player which is limited to Windows platforms so by process of elimination this leaves gstreamer which we know is already being used by Sony in 2011 Network connected Blu-ray players and TVs (From Disclosures) and will be in the PS3 and used by the GTKwebkit (from Disclosures). Are you suggesting that Sony will have multiple players on the same platform or that Sony might not prefer using the same IP across multiple platforms if possible? It makes sense to use Gstreamer for everything AV related.
I can't even begin to pick your points apart here. Your posts are filled with basic misunderstandings. Even the questions you ask in this post make no sense.
 
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
0
0
SteveWinwood said:
I imagine a guy in a tin foil hat running from hotel to hotel with tons of fake names being chased by imaginary Sony agents.
With the amount of time this guy spends misreading webkit Git repos, you'd think he'd learn something. Nope.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,803
6
890
Western Australia
shagg_187 said:
This thread... This fucking thread. One man conspiracy kliq.
The curious cat in me decided to check the per-user post counts of this thread, and, well...



And I thought Sculli's 1k+ posts in the de facto Avatar OT was excessive. :p

Edit: Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen jeff post anywhere else. Actually, I think I may have caught him in another thread not all too long ago, but that may have been a dream.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,803
6
890
Western Australia
theBishop said:
Impossible. This thread is useless. Jeff periodically updates to keep the uselessness fresh.
It's not so much that this thread is useless, rather it's just.. cyclic. Surely, at some point, jeff's perpetual investigation will result in something tangible. In fact, chances are he'll discover where Elvis has been hiding. :p
 
Apr 22, 2007
12,914
0
0
I've just seen a cow. Cows eat grass. Grass is green. Green is a color in the GTK logo. GTK has been used by programmers to write applications.

This can only mean one thing.

That cow was a computer programmer.
 
Dec 7, 2008
39,071
0
0
Florida
JaseC said:
The curious cat in me decided to check the per-user post counts of this thread, and, well...

http://i.imgur.com/wToTc.png[IMG]

And I thought Sculli's 1k+ posts in the de facto Avatar OT was excessive. :p

Edit: Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen jeff post anywhere else. Actually, I think I may have caught him in another thread not all too long ago, but that may have been a dream.[/QUOTE]

He posts in other threads sometimes, but it's usually related to this kind of stuff.
 
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
0
0
JaseC said:
It's not so much that this thread is useless, rather it's just.. cyclic. Surely, at some point, all of jeff's investigations will result in something tangible.
Nope. The first post contained some vague, possibly useful info. Nothing Jeff has posted since #1 has contained useful data. Maybe it was marginally interesting that a Sony engineer has some Webkit check-ins, but Jeff blew that wildly out of proportion. Everything since page 10 is nonsense.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,803
6
890
Western Australia
theBishop said:
Nope. The first post contained some vague, possibly useful info. Nothing Jeff has posted since #1 has contained useful data. Maybe it was marginally interesting that a Sony engineer has some Webkit check-ins, but Jeff blew that wildly out of proportion. Everything since page 10 is nonsense.
This feels like the perfect opportunity to post the "Is such a thing even possible?" gif.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
Originally Posted by jeff_rigby:
Point me to where I have misread one and Sony is using an internal repository not one maintained on the internet, at least the ones that they listed.

theBishop said:
You thought "POSIX" was a forthcoming PS3 feature.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27026928&postcount=271

jeff_rigby said:
The following is a Cairo SVG draw routine for a Popup menu. Notice the RendererThemePOSIX, POSIX is the Sony name for the toolkit theme

Quote:
+ // draw popup menu bg
+ cairo_set_source_rgba(cr, RGBA_BG);
+ cairo_rectangle(cr,
+ m_x,
+ m_y + m_h,
+ m_w,
+ m_itemH * m_visibleCount + m_outlineW * 2);
+ cairo_fill(cr);
+
+ // draw popup menu outline
+ cairo_set_source_rgba(cr, RGBA_OUTLINE);
+ cairo_rectangle(cr,
+ m_x,
+ m_y + m_h,
+ m_w,
+ m_itemH * m_visibleCount + m_outlineW * 2);
+ cairo_set_line_width(cr, m_outlineW);
+ cairo_set_line_join(cr, CAIRO_LINE_JOIN_MITER);
+ cairo_stroke(cr);
+#endif
+
+ // set clip area
+ cairo_rectangle(cr, m_x, m_y + m_h + m_outlineW, m_w, m_itemH * m_visibleCount);
+ cairo_clip(cr);
+ cairo_new_path(cr);
+
+ // draw text
+ cairo_select_font_face(cr,
+ "",
+ m_fontIsItalic ? CAIRO_FONT_SLANT_ITALIC : CAIRO_FONT_SLANT_NORMAL,
+ m_fontIsBold ? CAIRO_FONT_WEIGHT_BOLD : CAIRO_FONT_WEIGHT_NORMAL);
+ cairo_set_font_size(cr, m_fontSize);
+
+ for (int i = 0; i < m_itemCount; i++) {
+ if (i == m_selected) {
+#if USE_THEME_IMAGES
+ WebCore::RenderThemePOSIX::paintThemeImage3x3(&ctx, highlight,
+ WebCore::IntRect((int)(m_x + m_outlineW),
+ (int)(m_visibleY + m_itemH * i),
+ (int)(m_w - m_outlineW * 2),
+ (int)(m_itemH)),
+ 1, 1, 1, 1);
+#else
The + signifies an addition to the Diff file by Sony and I assumed that "RenderThemePOSIX" meant Render Theme is POSIX. Your reply to my post:
Just friendly head's up. "POSIX" is just a generic term for unix-like platforms. Maybe somebody has super insider info that I missed and a Sony coder is being cute, but it's highly unlikely a Playstation Theme would be named that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posix

I haven't read this thread very carefully, but jeff_rigby seems to be stabbing wildly in the dark.
And my response: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27043948&postcount=289

Where was I wrong? Your post was correct but you didn't read my cite!
 
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
0
0
jeff_rigby said:
Where was I wrong? Your post was correct but you didn't read my cite!
POSIX is the Sony name for the toolkit theme
Pzzt. This is a basic, basic error. Your response was just more confusion. You saw "Posix" in code, misunderstood it, and then proceeded to make crazy speculation based on that misunderstanding. That's this whole thread in a nutshell.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
theBishop said:
Pzzt. This is a basic, basic error. Your response was just more confusion. You saw "Posix" in code, misunderstood it, and then proceeded to make crazy speculation based on that misunderstanding. That's this whole thread in a nutshell.
Really <sigh> Then there is the email from Geoff Levand stating that the Coming webkit Browser would be a Cairo - Posix port.

I wrote an Email to Geoff Levand (Sony programmer in charge of the Javascript port, his name is in the GNU license disclosure)

On 12/16/2010 10:50 AM, jeff wrote:

Yes, we have a port of webkit that runs on PS3. It
is actually a generic Cairo/POSIX port. You can get
what we have for release here:

http://downloads.snei-opensource.com/pub/webkit/

It is now just javascript core, but we will be releasing
updates with more support in the coming months
 
Nov 26, 2006
17,210
0
0
jeff_rigby said:
Really <sigh> Then there is the email from Geoff Levand stating that the Coming webkit Browser would be a Cairo - Posix port.

I wrote an Email to Geoff Levand (Sony programmer in charge of the Javascript port, his name is in the GNU license disclosure)

On 12/16/2010 10:50 AM, jeff wrote:

Yes, we have a port of webkit that runs on PS3. It
is actually a generic Cairo/POSIX port. You can get
what we have for release here:

http://downloads.snei-opensource.com/pub/webkit/

It is now just javascript core, but we will be releasing
updates with more support in the coming months
"Sony programmer in charge of the Javascript port" -- Jesus, Exhibit #2398598

Geoff Levand was the official maintainer of "OtherOS", essentially Linux on PS3. This is a link to a port of Webkit to PS3/OtherOS. In the quote you post, he says it's not even a significant modification. Just a stock webkit build drawing to a stock Cairo backend. Nothing to see here, folks.
 
Dec 16, 2009
3,781
2
0
You're correct that Levand was the maintainer of OtherOS. But the quoted email is dated over six months after Sony removed OtherOS from the PS3. Why would they still be doing work for OtherOS at that time?

It is now just javascript core, but we will be releasing updates with more support in the coming months
The PS3 GameOS is also based on Linux btw.
 
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
0
Florida
theBishop said:
"Sony programmer in charge of the Javascript port" -- Jesus, Exhibit #2398598

Geoff Levand was the official maintainer of "OtherOS", essentially Linux on PS3. This is a link to a port of Webkit to PS3/OtherOS. In the quote you post, he says it's not even a significant modification. Just a stock webkit build drawing to a stock Cairo backend. Nothing to see here, folks.
Geoff WAS until April of 2010 the Linux maintainer, he was transferred to the webkit port. Check the dates on the webkit disclosure and the Email:
Parent Directory -
MPL-1.1.txt 17-Feb-2010 10:14 25K
isc-license.txt 11-Nov-2010 14:17 751
lgpl-2.1.txt 23-Mar-2010 16:34 26K
webkit-10.10.01-14fd0bd2/ 11-Nov-2010 14:00 -
webkit-11.02.03-ga52edd9/ 31-Mar-2011 11:48 -
This is way after Other OS was removed! Read the Files listed in the cite!

withnail said:
The PS3 GameOS is also based on Linux btw.
I ASSUMED it was but have found no proof of this. There is an internet article on Sony engineers working on Linux for the PS3, an implication that Sony created Other OS to support Linux for future PS3 applications but nothing concrete. That they called the webkit port POSIX would imply either the PS3 is not Linux and/or they are planning on using the same theme across multiple POSIX platforms. Is there anything you can cite?

theBishop; your post brought up a good point. The PS3 disclosures for the coming webkit port and other coming applications can be used to port the same applications to "other OS" Linux (minor changes needed). Big issue is the CairoGL support (requires OpenGL which Sony did not release for Other OS Linux. Other OS was FB (frame buffer)) I've been trying to find a reason for Sony to remove "Other OS" from the PS3. Nothing really sticks....this is another possible.