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PS3 Web Browser Discussion - big upgrade rumoured for long time, but no concrete news

hawkshockey11

Banned
Mar 22, 2010
2,161
0
0
They need to do something about the web browser. Gaf stopped working, Facebook stopped working, etc. Sony even has a facebook link on the ps3 homepage!
 

NEOPARADIGM

Banned
Aug 26, 2009
10,834
0
0
I just want to stop running into buttons and links I can't click.

Oh, and if I never see "Do you want to run the plugin?" again, I'll be much happier.
 

/XX/

Member
Feb 22, 2011
3,515
1
480
Luckyman said:
Pc Watch said something about PS3 software overhaul.. as PS4 dev was halted
後藤弘茂のWeekly海外ニュース - 秒読みのNGPとますます遠のくPlayStation 4
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/kaigai/20110210_425921.html

Above is the article published by Hiroshige Goto in his weekly news report in the PC Watch section of Impress Watch website, and I suppose the same jeff_rigby that has posted the new information here and resurrected this thread in the process made this other one in Beyond3D Forums with all the data translated:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=59567

jeff_rigby, you translated all that information? If so, thanks for that and I hope you can provide more threads like that here in NeoGAF!
 

H_Prestige

Banned
Aug 2, 2008
15,476
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Luckyman said:
Pc Watch said something about PS3 software overhaul.. as PS4 dev was halted
To be honest this is a much smarter idea than starting a brand new system from scratch. It just doesn't make sense anymore. MS is basically doing this with the 360 since they don't need an Xbox 3 either.

Upgraded ps3.5 with ps2 BC please
 

leroidys

Member
Dec 14, 2008
12,660
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0
H_Prestige said:
To be honest this is a much smarter idea than starting a brand new system from scratch. It just doesn't make sense anymore. MS is basically doing this with the 360 since they don't need an Xbox 3 either.

Upgraded ps3.5 with ps2 and psp BC please
fixd

I don't know what's with all the haters, thanks for posting this info jeff.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
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Florida
/XX/ said:
後藤弘茂のWeekly海外ニュース - 秒読みのNGPとますます遠のくPlayStation 4
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/kaigai/20110210_425921.html

Above is the article published by Hiroshige Goto in his weekly news report in the PC Watch section of Impress Watch website, and I suppose the same jeff_rigby that has posted the new information here and resurrected this thread in the process made this other one in Beyond3D Forums with all the data translated:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=59567

jeff_rigby, you translated all that information? If so, thanks for that and I hope you can provide more threads like that here in NeoGAF!
Google translated it and it's kinda unreadable but what makes me happy are the following:

Due to temporary shelving of the PS4 project, Plans are to upgrade the OS Software and features of the PS3 to make it last longer.

And one statement made might indicate the NGP and PS3 will have a "New partnership", I.E. remote play, remote desktop and more.....a "ecosystem".

"● There is no immediate plan for PlayStation 4 (PS4)  In the introduction to a new portable game platforms, the new generation of anxious but deferred.

PlayStation 3 (PS3) machine's successor, present what's going on. Hirai said that as mentioned below.  "On stationary and went in business in 2006 PS3 will go to the lifecycle of 10 years. In that sense, do not go to the halfway point yet. An attractive first-party titles, both third party, rather I came out. has implemented a new initiative announced each year in the future PS3 software to enhance the feature sets to take care and hope to grow.

So suddenly the next generation PS4 or stationary machines that's what the debate is not even now. I mean the PS3 is now concentrating on. In addition, NGP and PS3 now want you to appeal to a new partnership with. "
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Apr 27, 2006
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Lagspike_exe said:
Temporary shelving PS4 project?
I think in the context "pushing the release back a year or two" it makes sense. There is no chance in hell they'd just stop making consoles.
 

Morn

Banned
Jan 29, 2010
2,819
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cnizzle06 said:
You shut your whore face!
Apparently the NGP isn't using it. Changing it on the PS3 would make sense as they seem to be moving away from PS3-PSP synergy to PS3-NGP.
 

KAL2006

Member
Feb 6, 2009
11,206
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1,075
UK
jeff_rigby said:
Google translated it and it's kinda unreadable but what makes me happy are the following:

Due to temporary shelving of the PS4 project, Plans are to upgrade the OS Software and features of the PS3 to make it last longer.

And one statement made might indicate the NGP and PS3 will have a "New partnership", I.E. remote play, remote desktop and more.....a "ecosystem".
I hope LiveArea from NGP is going to make its way to PS3
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
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Florida
Morn said:
I wonder if this means they're going to ditch the XMB design.
There has been allot of speculation on that too. With a webkit port we will be getting the libraries for windows. Edit: no Xwindows, CairoGL and window management like Google did Android Chrome.

What I think is coming:

1) The PS3 XMB will be rewritten to use Edit: Cairo calls. This would then easily allow remote desktop control of the PS3 from the NGP and the new S1.

2) Subsections of the XMB will support HTML5 javascript UI to allow integration with the new PS Support forum by Jive. Edit: or direct SVG (Cairo)

A) Some of the sections of the XMB supporting HTML5 or SVG UI will be custom configurable. Choose favorite browser quick launch video IPTV sites from a list on a Cloud server and they become the custom selections for your PS3.

B) New Email editors, mini-wordprocessors etc. can be cloud applications.

Beyond a couple of windows allowing widgets to display I think the XMB will stay. Cairo-Pango will allow international Fonts.
 

Lagspike_exe

Member
Feb 10, 2009
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Belgrade
NGP isn't using XMB because its conception isn't usage on touch-enabled devices. Whether this reflects a change in Sony's corporate policy on UIs remains to be seen and cannot be concluded based on NGP alone.
 

sadaiyappan

Member
Feb 8, 2008
962
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I live in US or India.
It works on most sites. The flash player is okay. But it crashes often when you are playing flash video and you try to navigate back or you are switching between open browser windows. I used to stream NBA games from sites like ATDHE on my PS3 after my parents stopped paying for cable TV.
 

bud

Member
Nov 22, 2004
34,563
0
1,690
i can never access gaf directly. i always have to google it for it to work.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
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leroidys said:
fixd

I don't know what's with all the haters, thanks for posting this info jeff.
It's a foot in mouth disease. They didn't read the posts linked.

When jumping into a new forum, I try to use and tie into what has already been posted.

It's 100% certified and proved, Webkit is in the process of being ported to the PS3. I've suspected it and commented on this before October and after PS3 firmware 3.5 noticed the 7 meg drop in size for the MLB upgrade required after 3.5 (and other IPTV applications).

A HTML5 javascript engine is is about 7 megs. I.E. the generic HTML4 JavaScript engine moved out of the applications when the HTML5 javascript engine was put into the PS3 firmware.

Sony posted (as required by the Webkit GNU license) their use of and changes to Webkit November 10th 2010.

Netflix used QT Webkit for their application. They custom ported QT Webkit to the PS3. QT webkit is a hybrid "C" and webkit cross platform development platform. The 21 meg Netflix application is the include to support the Webkit toolkit and extensions to the PS3 "C" library.
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
0
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Florida
KAL2006 said:
could this big update be revealed at GDC
Probably not. Remember it's still Sony.

The best time to have announced a new browser and all that it implies would have been before the last Christmas selling /buying season.

What may be announced to developers at GDC are the libraries being ported to the PS3 and a confirmation of the (possibly premature) "yes" answer to the question "Will PS Suite allow applications to be ported to the PS3?". The yes quote that PS Suite will allow ports to the PS3 was almost immediately retracted. Edit: confirmed at GDC in a slideshow for developers.

PS3 Webkit port requires Open source libraries => PS3 <= PS suite requires Open source libraries
 

jeff_rigby

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Aug 7, 2010
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Majine said:
I'd kill for a Google Chrome on PS3.
It's going to go way beyond just the browser. I may be looking at this with rose colored glasses but integrating a webkit and all that Cloud computing can do in to the PS3 may meet the WOW factor we now see in iOS and Android platforms.

Remember the PS3 is much more powerful than Android and iOS platforms and has a Hard disk not SD memory.

Xbox with Silverlight 5 is also probably planning a WOW front end. MS does still have some design limitations similar to iOS and Android as their bottom end without Hard disk still has to be supported.

Ecosystem and cross platform are the buzz words Sony with PS3 - NGP and multiple Android platforms and MS with Xbox - Windows 7 portables of various sizes.

Tie ins to Cable and Satellite set top boxes as well as other home appliances is to be expected.
 

Rolf NB

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Apr 22, 2007
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Oh god Jeff can't you drop this shit already? You have no clue about how software works anyways. I bet you this neverending Webkit obsession contributed to your ban on B3D, too.
 

Audioboxer

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May 11, 2010
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I seriously doubt my PS3 would ever get substantial use of the web browser even if Sony implemented a tear weeping browser masterpiece.

I would just like a browser capable of running flash completely hitch free and efficiently enough for consistent smooth playback from iPlayer/4OD/Youtube/Other media streaming sites.

Right now it does the above okay, but it could do it a lot better.
 

googleplex

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Jun 7, 2010
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hawkshockey11 said:
They need to do something about the web browser. Gaf stopped working, Facebook stopped working, etc. Sony even has a facebook link on the ps3 homepage!
Gaf works in my PS3 web browser.
 

cremebox

Neo Member
Apr 11, 2009
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I just want to be able to watch streams on justin/ustream again like the good ol days. Also HQ youtube functionality would be stellar as well.
 

jeff_rigby

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Aug 7, 2010
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Rolf NB said:
Oh god Jeff can't you drop this shit already? You have no clue about how software works anyways. I bet you this neverending Webkit obsession contributed to your ban on B3D, too.
Edit: The only disagreement we had on B3D was related to Webkit tools being used by a future Steam game on the PS3. Recently Steam published a PC game that used webkit, at least the javascript engine. They probably included one in the game. On the PS3 they will use the one provided by Sony. Your argument was that low level IP calls (possible) were all that was necessary and Steam would not use webkit. This does not indicate that I know more about software but does indicate that you do not recognize the value of webkit or it's potential uses.

I have been wrong many times, Air 2.5 in the PS3 comes to mind. As a speculation the base logic was good but there was not enough information and it appears to be dead wrong now that we know that the PS3 is using Gstreamer for AV.

Shifty on B3D stopped a thread I started:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=59567

Which quoted an interview with Hirai Kazuo of Sony and spawned it into a business discussion that interested him. He wanted to discuss Wii - Xbox - PS3 next generation implications.

The article's thrust was NGP and PS3 not next generation. In keeping with the thrust of Shifty's thread I mentioned next generation PS4 would have to support more than 1080P possibly 4K resolution. This was probably the reason for shelving (temporarily) PS4 & next generation Xbox development until a cost effective GPU was developed (also supported by the article). That comment was jumped on and drove the thread off topic. I got a temporary ban for that.

I also got a warning for using the color red in selected text. Another warning for bringing up a patent applied for by Sony in the PS Suite thread to use overlays on a touch screen to mimic the controls of older game controllers via PS suite on touch screen platforms. Shifty argued the patent didn't apply to NGP or PS Suite, mine was that the idea did show thinking about PS Suite years ago and the narrow focus of the patent due to "realities" not application.

So no, I wasn't a "Naughty Boy" or got temporarily banned talking about Webkit.

B3D is an amazing and well respected forum due to the efforts of moderators like Shifty. Sometimes people can't understand what is really being said due to their preconceived opinions or assumptions.

Edit: Knowledge base and abilities differ. Many times we do not know about the holes in our knowledge we have filled with assumptions. This can create misunderstandings in on-line discussions. Without fully explaining (which takes work) your position, it may not be accepted.

It's interesting that the thread I started was picked up and quoted in multiple articles all over the world. This is a testament to the respect given B3D and only on my part to the interest in the subject I posted. My belief is that Shifty was wrong to close that thread and try to force it into a business discussion.

You decide, it this interesting?

There are no plans to reduce the die size of the PS3 beyond the current 45nm. It's possible that they are waiting for 22/20nm and will skip the 32/28nm generation. I'd read that reducing from 45nm to 32nm required a design change for the external pin connections and Sony is probably waiting for 22/20nm to make the change practical.



Higher efficiency for the Cell and RSX might translate to a fanless PS3 with passive cooling. The PS3 Cell BE and RSX are being used by Sony in 4K commercial editing hardware.

Plans are to upgrade the OS Software and features of the PS3 to make it last longer For instance the PS3 can display 4K, that can be enabled with a software upgrade. 2012 should have 4K res sets as well as 4K & 1080P 3-D blu-ray players. That would have the PS3 still able to match CE equipment standards and that will be the end of the PS3's ability to keep up with the CE media advances. (Blue ray drive in the PS3 is not fast enough for 4K blu-ray but streaming compressed video via the gigabit port should be fast enough.)

Hiroshige Goto says SCEI suspended PS4 development. They were working on a PowerPC based system at IBM Rochester after the Larrabee fall out, then shelved it. They are betting the farm on PSP2 as they expect handhelds to displace consoles. Larrabee was the combo CPU Multi GPU chip.

MS at board level is also considering shelving a next generation Xbox
 

thuway

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Feb 25, 2008
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@ above post -

I agree with shelving the console. Currently the best PC specs still leave a lot to be desired. With diminishing returns as they are, it would be stupid to release anything other than a "special edition" PS3.5 as a stop gap until the true PS4.

I don't want to see a PS4 until I can get full HD graphics in the vein of Final Fantasy Versus XIII CG.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Jan 24, 2007
19,100
0
0
Nashville, USA
thuway said:
@ above post -

I agree with shelving the console. Currently the best PC specs still leave a lot to be desired. With diminishing returns as they are, it would be stupid to release anything other than a "special edition" PS3.5 as a stop gap until the true PS4.

I don't want to see a PS4 until I can get full HD graphics in the vein of Final Fantasy Versus XIII CG.
A 3.5 that can actually give us current level graphics effects at solid framerate and resolution would tide a lot of people over for years.

I think an upgraded browser is coming though, no question. And more ad more apps too. Someone mentioned espn3 above, I bet it will be a paid app like NHL one. One time up front payment.
 

Fersis

It is illegal to Tag Fish in Tag Fishing Sanctuaries by law 38.36 of the GAF Wildlife Act
Apr 21, 2008
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50% of my GAF posts are made form the PS3 browser.

So when can we expect all this new awesomeness?
 

Massa

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Jan 16, 2009
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jeff_rigby said:
Hiroshige Goto says SCEI suspended PS4 development. They were working on a PowerPC based system at IBM Rochester after the Larrabee fall out, then shelved it. They are betting the farm on PSP2 as they expect handhelds to displace consoles. Larrabee was the combo CPU Multi GPU chip.
This isn't true.



Nirolak said:
I asked duckroll what the article said and it essentially goes like this.

Question: Will there be a PS4 in 2011?

Answer: No. We're not in a rush since the transition would be hard on developers. For now, the focus is on PS3 and NGP. 10 year plan, etc, etc.

At no point do they say "Development on the PS4 has halted".
 

Kung Fu Grip

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Oct 5, 2010
2,148
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New York
thuway said:
I don't want to see a PS4 until I can get full HD graphics in the vein of Final Fantasy Versus XIII CG.
Yep, i agree.

The jump has to be similar to when we all saw mario64. That was a very noticeable improvement in graphics. I don't want this generations graphics/level design/Ai prettied up to 4k or what resolution they're gonna use.

It has to truly be different.


50% of my GAF posts are made form the PS3 browser.
Im posting from my PS3 right now. :p
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Jan 24, 2007
19,100
0
0
Nashville, USA
mclaren777 said:
I sure hope not. I love the XMB.
While I love it, it can use a few changes in the media columns. Options for display patterns if nothing else.

For example I like the new display matrix for pictures and I wish it was similar for movies and games too. Show a lot of box arts all at once. Or all videos in a folder in one moving wall of movies. Same for the various streaming apps, netflix, nhk, mlb, hulu, vudu, too many slots taken vertically.

Also add group editing. And auto-game sorting options. Genre, rating (from xmb not store then syncs to store), platform...

And what i really want is a media organizer with internet support. XMBC style. Let me organize both a DLNA server content, local hard drive content and external USB drive conntent all in one nice big interface with cover art, actors, info imdb style. Same for music.