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[BlueTsunami]

It seems to me that the XNA Game Studio stuff is more exciting for home brew, coz it gives much better access to the hardware.

Ahhhh, two different things dude.

One is being able to work with a tangible Open OS and all of its benefits

The other is a suite of tools to create games...

What was the point in bringing XNA in this thread?

 

[Raistlin]

So can someone explain to me whats exciting about being able to run linux code on a stripped down ppc processor with no access to cell SPUs or RSX hardware acceleration?

1) It isn't really a stripped down PPC per say, since YDL has been optimized for it.

2) There is full access to the SPUs.


The only question is whether NVidia will release RSX drivers ... though there are people working on an OpenGL RSX driver project already.

It seems to me that the XNA Game Studio stuff is more exciting for home brew, coz it gives much better access to the hardware.

There is nothing being 'blocked' on the PS3. The only issue right now is a lack of RSX drivers. At this point, we have PPC and SPU access ... ethernet access ... bluetooth access ... USB access ... BluRay access ... HDD access ...

??

 

[BobTheFork]

sry, noob question. Once I install FC5 Ill be able to instalol firefox on the ps3 and do some decent browsing? Need touched linux befo.

 

[The Faceless Master]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwoIKYZs76Q

MAME on PS3

it's Pac-Man!

 

[DCharlie]

YDL - yup, i'm going to wait until YDL hits. I'm thinking that it might be preferable to pick up a second machine and use that one as a game server/media center/homebrew box so i don't have to scrub everything i do between now and december

 

[DeadlySchnauzer]

1) It isn't really a stripped down PPC per say, since YDL has been optimized for it.

Right... but the processor itself (PPU on the cell) is a pile o crap, and not going to do too well at any perf intensive stuff.

2) There is full access to the SPUs.

Rightio, that changes things a bit

Anyways for me the attraction of open PS3 and XNA is being able to write my own code and run it on powerful hardware (without having to fork out huge bucks for a high end PC). I really hope they fix up the RSX support.

 

[Eric_S]

It's not a stripped down PPC core, for one, to be that it'd have to lack registers or similar. And it'll do just fine on code that relies on streaming or well tended to branchy code.

Other then that, running Linux on a PS3 is done because it's fun to mess around with things and you can gain functionallity beyond the standard XMB interface.

 

[xaosslug]

this thread is total geeked-out sex. I love it.

you guys rock for beta testing all this stuff and ironing out (most) the kinks so that when peeps like me, who'll have to join the party later won't have too much of a hassle.

 

[PG2G]

I dunno, it seems pretty stripped down to me. I wouldn't expect much in terms of performance, until we see apps that are actually coded to use SPUs (which I'm sure there will be, since this will be a huge userbase).

 

[Fafalada]

It seems to me that the XNA Game Studio stuff is more exciting for home brew, coz it gives much better access to the hardware.

XNA game studio stuff runs on the same kind of crap PPC running through extra layers of abstraction provided by C#, guaranteeing you extra crappy CPU performance.
And at any rate - a homebrew environment with no restrictions on distribution or content of the apps sounds actually interesting as opposed to playing in a sandbox MS set up.
But yea, here's hoping for GPU drivers eventually showing up.

so i don't have to scrub everything i do between now and december

You can always try installing it on a USB HDD enclosure(or perhaps one of those WiFi USB thingies). Existing stuff could probably be transfered to a new partitioned HDD with some work anyway, but if you want to keep things simple...

 

[tetsuoxb]

YDL - yup, i'm going to wait until YDL hits. I'm thinking that it might be preferable to pick up a second machine and use that one as a game server/media center/homebrew box so i don't have to scrub everything i do between now and december

Just copy all your game saves onto a memory card and then copy them back over after the format... I wonder how account recovery works...

 

[BlueTsunami]

Just copy all your game saves onto a memory card and then copy them back over after the format... I wonder how account recovery works...

Thats actually an interesting thought.

Have the option to backup your systems account (such as settings, passwords, Web Browser related stuff) to a Memory Stick or some other device. If your system messes up for some reason and the HDD needs to be wiped you can point to this backup and the account is brought back with the settings you backed up at.

That would be awesome

 

[garrickk]

Thats actually an interesting thought.

Have the option to backup your systems account (such as settings, passwords, Web Browser related stuff) to a Memory Stick or some other device. If your system messes up for some reason and the HDD needs to be wiped you can point to this backup and the account is brought back with the settings you backed up at.

That would be awesome

It would be awesome if you could do this to a USB Flash key (for 20GB model owners).

I've looked through the online manual, and they have an entry describing copying saves to "media" but it doesn't describe the limitations of this. Well, it does say that you can't have background operations going (music playback, etc.) and that some things won't copy.

http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/game/copysavedata.html

I've searched and found no other copy options for anything else except media files.

 

[Krowley]

just wanted to add to the people that are saying this might be a "killer app"... i've been incredibly critical of sony since they announced the price, but this is the one thing that might justify the price for me in the long run...

I know what a modded xbox can do and i know how much more awesome linux could potentially be. Giving consumers access to something this cool without making them break into the system is a very big deal. And i'm not just talking about emulation... there is so much more cool stuff about having a modded xbox (media player functions... a front end for your PC content on your TV set... true convergence...)

It's potentially revolutionary.

The one thing about linux is that it's not a very user friendly OS... There is too much access to the inner workings, and people can break it by accident. A mac user would be horrified by it and even a windows user would find it difficult.... But the open source linux dev community is massive and when they get access to a set platform that doesn't change, they will do amazing things.

I fully expect an amazing ps3 friendly linux front end and tons of ps3 friendly apps within 6 months and maybe sooner.

I still don't think the ps3 is priced right for a game system, but it can still have a big impact overall. The linux compatability is so potentially awesome that it even makes the blue ray seem like an afterthought. Just imagine a modded xbox with tons more functionality. That's a consumer revolution.

 

[seanoff]

I would be hoping someone can build a custom install/UI for the stuff people might want to do, ie PVR functions, email, internet.

A very simple beast that lets you access the stuff you need without geeking people out. Something along the lines of the Wii channels etc. Cobalt did a very good job with a custom linux UI that makes server admin very simple. I can give it to people here to add users etc without having to have them being geeks.

Someone needs to plug a USB tuner in to see what happens.

 

[BlueTsunami]

A very simple beast that lets you access the stuff you need without geeking people out. Something along the lines of the Wii channels etc. Cobalt did a very good job with a custom linux UI that makes server admin very simple. I can give it to people here to add users etc without having to have them being geeks.

YDL is supposedly like this (with the GUI Enlightenment). I haven't used it before but from the screenshots it looks nice and clean and not packed with stuff like KDE and Gnome seem to be.

Simple Desktop items with the most commonly used items.

 

[Blimblim]

I would be hoping someone can build a custom install/UI for the stuff people might want to do, ie PVR functions, email, internet.

A very simple beast that lets you access the stuff you need without geeking people out. Something along the lines of the Wii channels etc. Cobalt did a very good job with a custom linux UI that makes server admin very simple. I can give it to people here to add users etc without having to have them being geeks.

If the framebuffer is fast enough to be able to display HD videos then this type of thing will happen very quickly IMHO. If not, we'll have to wait and see if Sony/Nvidia release a full blown driver for RSX.

Someone needs to plug a USB tuner in to see what happens.

The whole USB stack is exposed, so no reason this shouldn't work.

 

[mckmas8808]

The whole USB stack is exposed, so no reason this shouldn't work.

What would a USB tuner allow us to do?

 

[BlueTsunami]

What would a USB tuner allow us to do?

DVR functionality I would think

 

[Queeg]

What would a USB tuner allow us to do?

Watch and record TV, as well as later encoding to XVID etc. with a program like Avidemux.

 

[mckmas8808]

Watch and record TV, as well as later encoding to XVID etc. with a program like Avidemux.

Get the **** out of here. You serious? Man that's cool. I hope somebody can figure this out.

 

[Queeg]

If the framebuffer is fast enough to be able to display HD videos then this type of thing will happen very quickly IMHO. If not, we'll have to wait and see if Sony/Nvidia release a full blown driver for RSX.

I think it'd be in NVIDIA's interest to provide a driver, anything they can do to sell more PS3's to the public the more chips Sony pays them for. Be a little silly on their part if they didn't IMO. But not everything goes how it should in this world :lol

 

[Blimblim]

Get the **** out of here. You serious? Man that's cool. I hope somebody can figure this out.

There is no figuring out to do besides making the video output work correctly. With mythtv everything is already done to build a great PVR using Linux.
http://www.mythtv.org/

I think it'd be in NVIDIA's interest to provide a driver, anything they can do to sell more PS3's to the public the more chips Sony pays them for. Be a little silly on their part if they didn't IMO. But not everything goes how it should in this world :lol

Well maybe Sony also put a limitation to the video output to prevent people from using the PS3 as the most awesome media player out there. After all even though it's said the divisions are independant, Sony owns a lot of movie studios.

 

[Danj]

While I'm a total idiot on OS use beyond using Safari and Firefox, this kind of ability makes me warm up to the PS3. I noticed that the 'official' Linux distribution for the PS3 is Yellow Dog Linux; if I got a PS3 sometime and got Terra Soft's DVD for installation, is it going to be as command intensive as what we've seen here or is it something a Windows or Mac user could pull off? How newbie-friendly is it in comparison to doing Fedora the hard way as seen above?

I think the commandline stuff is probably related to the fact that Fedora has not been optimized for Cell or the PS3 and presumably does not include the special Cell drivers and stuff.

Does this mean I can use wireless USB KB and mouse, etc. Gracias.

I believe someone tried an RF wireless keyboard (with a USB dongle) and had it work already. Not so sure about Bluetooth keyboards though.

 

[UtadaBarkley]

I believe someone tried an RF wireless keyboard (with a USB dongle) and had it work already. Not so sure about Bluetooth keyboards though.

I can personally vouch that this works perfectly.

 

[Queeg]

Well maybe Sony also put a limitation to the video output to prevent people from using the PS3 as the most awesome media player out there. After all even though it's said the divisions are independant, Sony owns a lot of movie studios.

True that. It'd be a shame if Sony were to do that though after opening so much of the system up from playing mp3's and video from external drives etc. To then nerf that, well I did say not all things go as they should. I'll just keep hoping that doesn't turn out to be the case I guess.

 

[UtadaBarkley]

This is a little OT... but once and for all can i hook up my USB HDD to the PS3?
I've tried it, and I see in the upper right hand corner it finds something (as indicated by the little "waiting" icon) but then nothing after that... Do I have to create some special folders, etc before it sees my drive?

 

[mckmas8808]

There is no figuring out to do besides making the video output work correctly. With mythtv everything is already done to build a great PVR using Linux.
http://www.mythtv.org/.

HOLY CRAP!! :O

I need this on my PS3.

 

[gofreak]

This is a little OT... but once and for all can i hook up my USB HDD to the PS3?
I've tried it, and I see in the upper right hand corner it finds something (as indicated by the little "waiting" icon) but then nothing after that... Do I have to create some special folders, etc before it sees my drive?

The manual says:

Content saved in the following folders at the root directory level of storage media or USB mass storage devices is displayed by default.

VIDEO
MUSIC
PICTURE

Select the icon for the storage media or USB mass storage device, and then press the button. Select [Display All] from the options menu to display folders in addition to those listed above.
Example of content displayed by default

So you should have a USB mass storage icon under music/video/photo in the xmb, so select that and hit triangle and it'll let you browse other folders on the drive.

 

[Danj]

There is no figuring out to do besides making the video output work correctly. With mythtv everything is already done to build a great PVR using Linux.
http://www.mythtv.org/

Does MythTV (and/or Linux itself) actually support USB TV tuners? If so, is there a list of which ones are supported somewhere?

 

[Danj]

This is a little OT... but once and for all can i hook up my USB HDD to the PS3?
I've tried it, and I see in the upper right hand corner it finds something (as indicated by the little "waiting" icon) but then nothing after that... Do I have to create some special folders, etc before it sees my drive?

Your HDD will need to be formatted as FAT32 if it isn't already... if you formatted it under Windows XP it might be NTFS, so that might be why it isn't reading the drive?

 

[Blimblim]

Does MythTV (and/or Linux itself) actually support USB TV tuners? If so, is there a list of which ones are supported somewhere?

http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB_USB

 

[seanoff]

HOLY CRAP!! :O

I need this on my PS3.

AMEN. That's the shot. Linux geeks, this needs to run on the PS3. NOW. At least by launch here in Australia.

 

[Danj]

AMEN. That's the shot. Linux geeks, this needs to run on the PS3. NOW. At least by launch here in Australia.

Linux am PS3 killer app confirmed!

Seriously though, like Blimblim said, it should just be a matter of getting the video output working and recompiling everything for Cell/PowerPC. I'm sure some Linux developers will have that sorted out within a few weeks or so.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Hell, I wonder if MythTV works already.

Apparently certain USB devices that weren't said to be supported are supported and its known that generic PPC Apps are already working just through use of the PPC core.

Obviously the more CPU/GPU intensive stuff wouldn't fly at all but at least starting it up/attempting to use MythTV could be used as some sort of proof of concept or something.

 

[mckmas8808]

How does this USB tuner work actually? What channels would I be getting? Is it just CBS, FOX, ABC, and NBC?

 

[UtadaBarkley]

Your HDD will need to be formatted as FAT32 if it isn't already... if you formatted it under Windows XP it might be NTFS, so that might be why it isn't reading the drive?

Ahh... that's what it is... blah... Okay, I might do that... Also, last question...i'm hoping there's a way to copy your game downloads over to the extrenal HDD...please say yes. 60 GB fills up QUICK... Maybe I should just upgrade... Man the PS3 is awesome... If we can get MYTH TV running, that would be all sorts of awesome.

 

[Danj]

How does this USB tuner work actually? What channels would I be getting? Is it just CBS, FOX, ABC, and NBC?

In America you'd need some sort of compatible USB capture device that can accept a video signal from your cable or satellite box, otherwise you'd just be stuck with whatever channels you can get from your antenna. Over here in Europe we have digital terrestrial TV (DVB-T) so we can get slightly more channels over-the-air. The page that Blimblim linked is just for DVB USB tuners I believe.

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

Ahh... that's what it is... blah... Okay, I might do that... Also, last question...i'm hoping there's a way to copy your game downloads over to the extrenal HDD...please say yes. 60 GB fills up QUICK... Maybe I should just upgrade... Man the PS3 is awesome... If we can get MYTH TV running, that would be all sorts of awesome.

Before installing LINUX on my PS3 I copied all of my save games to a USB HDD then formatted, installed LINUX and when I was finished copied the files from the USB HDD back to the PS3's internal HDD so yes its possible.

 

[UtadaBarkley]

Before installing LINUX on my PS3 I copied all of my save games to a USB HDD then formatted, installed LINUX and when I was finished copied the files from the USB HDD back to the PS3's internal HDD so yes its possible.

Will this work with downloadable games?

Also, do I need all 6 Linux CD's to install the OS?

I tried downloading the DVD, but it got jacked up right in the middle... I had 4 GIGS done as well...argh!

 

[Danj]

I tried downloading the DVD, but it got jacked up right in the middle... I had 4 megs done as well...argh!

Either use a download manager or find a torrent of it (most Linux distributions have an official torrent version now I believe).

 

[UtadaBarkley]

Either use a download manager or find a torrent of it (most Linux distributions have an official torrent version now I believe).

Yep.. I was using a download manager...but it still crapped out... I'll try the torrent...thanks!

 

[Queeg]

Programs like PSPVC should also work , after you record something you could convert it for your PSP and put it straight on. The possibilities with Linux for what features you can add to the PS3 should be great.

 

[gofreak]

Before installing LINUX on my PS3 I copied all of my save games to a USB HDD then formatted, installed LINUX and when I was finished copied the files from the USB HDD back to the PS3's internal HDD so yes its possible.

Can you back up downloadable content from the store in the same way?

 

[mrklaw]

YDL - yup, i'm going to wait until YDL hits. I'm thinking that it might be preferable to pick up a second machine and use that one as a game server/media center/homebrew box so i don't have to scrub everything i do between now and december

why don't you just reserve 10GB now, then you can faff about with the installation etc later?

Not sure about two boxes. I'd expect/hope to use the media side like XBMC - mainly to stream videos/music over the network from my NAS. If I can do that then I won't need to upgrade my PS3 HDD


BTW, is there anywhere that lists what disk formats PS3 reads? It seems to reat FAT and FAT32 but not NTFS. What about linux formatted external HDDs?

 

[kikonawa]

Can you back up downloadable content from the store in the same way?

I think YES , but i'm not sure. what I do know is that you select your destination DRIVE when you have a usb storage plugged in. you can download directly to your external drive.

 

[Fafalada]

Well maybe Sony also put a limitation to the video output to prevent people from using the PS3 as the most awesome media player out there.

Wait, did I miss something, is there some limit on Video out in Linux?

 

[Blimblim]

Wait, did I miss something, is there some limit on Video out in Linux?

None that we know of except that there are no drivers for RSX, so it's only using the framebuffer device. So far we have no idea how its bandwidth is.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wait, did I miss something, is there some limit on Video out in Linux?

No, I think that this is a moment of mass hysteria trying to understand how many evil limitations (Sony is evil, evil organizations place evil limitations, Sony is an organization, Sony places evil limitations) Sony must have placed on PLAYSTATION 3 Linux (Guest OS's).

I personally think that we will not be stuck with a frame-buffer device for long and that we will have an OpenGL driver and Cg programming capabilities soon enough .

 

[cedric69]

I can personally vouch that this works perfectly.

This being USB dongle or Bluetooth keyboard? I'm trying to understand how easy it could be to control PS3 wirelessly from a Linux environment.