BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Panajev2001a said:I personally think that we will not be stuck with a frame-buffer device for long and that we will have an OpenGL driver and Cg programming capabilities soon enough.
Panajev2001a said:I personally think that we will not be stuck with a frame-buffer device for long and that we will have an OpenGL driver and Cg programming capabilities soon enough.
I'd wait for a better PS3 optimized version of Linux than a stock ppc64 kernel. As soon as I have my PS3 I'll install a gentoo with all ps3 stuff enabled. Though ffmpeg will only use Altivec stuff for the moment.cedric69 said:Ok, could anybody try to play a full screen 1080i video under Fedora and see what happens?
Hopefully tomorrow, more likely on wednesday. The customs called me on friday to tell me they were releasing the parcel, but that I'd have to pay 131 euros. Yikes.kikonawa said:Blim, when do you receive your ps3? still held at customs?
Blimblim said:I'd wait for a better PS3 optimized version of Linux than a stock ppc64 kernel. As soon as I have my PS3 I'll install a gentoo with all ps3 stuff enabled. Though ffmpeg will only use Altivec stuff for the moment.
antiloop said:Windows XP running on PS3 in Linux (emulated):
http://xs209.xs.to/xs209/06471/xp_ps3.png
I can't begin to imagine how sluggish XP is running in PS3 Linux with 200 MB ram. :lol
But still kinda cool.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=876894&postcount=30
http://rian.s26.xrea.com/
BlueTsunami said::lol
Is that even real? Jesus.
Looking at the screen it looks to be using QEMU for emulation...
Too bad he doesn't mention his PC specs.antiloop said:Seems legit to me.
He did a Dhrystone benchmark too: (in Linux)
Dhrystone
自宅メインマシン: 3485.742 (His home PC)
PS3 Cell linux: 1361.608 (Cell - only the PPC core)
kikonawa said:as long as an emulated amiga would run at full speed ..... drool
Blimblim said:Too bad he doesn't mention his PC specs.
Sure, but in case it would run smoothly... well, then we can give for granted that with a properly optimized version... media player supremo FTW!!!Blimblim said:I'd wait for a better PS3 optimized version of Linux than a stock ppc64 kernel. As soon as I have my PS3 I'll install a gentoo with all ps3 stuff enabled. Though ffmpeg will only use Altivec stuff for the moment.
Some scores for reference.BlueTsunami said:Yep
I would have liked to have known that too. Its awesome nonetheless.
Blimblim said:Some scores for reference.
http://freespace.virgin.net/roy.longbottom/dhrystone results.htm
Blimblim said:Some scores for reference.
http://freespace.virgin.net/roy.longbottom/dhrystone results.htm
Well, as long as there is no SPE involved yes, but once we get some code that uses them it will be quite differentBlueTsunami said:Thanks Blim!
Yep what iapetus said.
I would guess, once you hit Decoding/Encoding and other clock heavy stuff, that PS3 is going too crawl.
Blimblim said:Some scores for reference.
http://freespace.virgin.net/roy.longbottom/dhrystone results.htm
BlueTsunami said:I would guess, once you hit Decoding/Encoding and other clock heavy stuff, that PS3 is going too crawl.
gofreak said:I'd be wary of comparing numbers when we don't know how he compiled and ran that. I'm not sure what the state of cell support is with the compiler in FC5 - without that you'll get a ppc build that doesn't account for its IOE nature etc.
Not that I'd expect much from the PPE in the first instance, nor do I know how much performance a targetted build would add, but some context would be nice.
gofreak said:It'll eat that for breakfast, if you code for the SPEs at least.
antiloop said:If you want to compare with that list at least go with the not optimized numbers.![]()
Compiler of course.gofreak said:Does optimisation in that context refer to actual code modification or automatic compiler optimisation?
iapetus said:Only if you're interested in Dhrystone performance. If you're interested in what the PS3 can actually run under Linux, then at the moment the optimised numbers make more sense IMO. Right now you can expect performance roughly equivalent to a 600MHz Duron without a 3D graphics card - that should give an idea of what emulators/video codecs you can expect to get results from.
Blimblim said:Compiler of course.
Well of course this benchmark was only using the PPE. It's your average ppc64 architecture so I doubt some further optimizations on this part only would change much of the score.gofreak said:I doubt there was an such optimisation here for Cell then (I don't think the version of gcc with FC5 can target cell specifically?) - and iapetus is correct that this will weigh on every application for the time being, but we should be talking about a matter of days here (I assume YDL's gcc will have cell-specifics). Again, not that I expect much from the PPE alone on a general benchmark, even with a cell build..
Why would Sony be interested in granting access to the GPU, if they took the measures and created the hypervisor to prevent access? And, even more important, why would Nvidia release drivers for RSX, even if Sony relases an updated hypervisor that removes the access restriction, especially considering that they only created the x86, amd64 and ia64 Linux drivers for professional users in the first place and never bothered to release Linux/ PPC drivers?Panajev2001a said:I personally think that we will not be stuck with a frame-buffer device for long and that we will have an OpenGL driver and Cg programming capabilities soon enough.
gcc 4.3 (experimental) version supports cell architecture. That's what I'm planning to use to compile kernel and then other stuff once I have gentoo all installed. (Yes it's taking forever because I was actually compiling gcc and glibc on the system and was also hitting a few bumps. gcc 4.1 took like 2 hours to compile lol.) Anyhow, hopefully after it's all said and done it was worth the trouble.gofreak said:I doubt there was an such optimisation here for Cell then (I don't think the version of gcc with FC5 can target cell specifically?) - and iapetus is correct that this will weigh on every application for the time being, but we should be talking about a matter of days here (I assume YDL's gcc will have cell-specifics). Again, not that I expect much from the PPE alone on a general benchmark, even with a cell build..
Dhrystone is an integer-only benchmark, anyway, and CELL sucks at integer math. Big time. The SPEs are floating point processors, too, so they wouldn't help. Whetstone would be much more interesting...Blimblim said:Well of course this benchmark was only using the PPE. It's your average ppc64 architecture so I doubt some further optimizations on this part only would change much of the score.
It's all that's available for the moment for all Linux applications, until people hand optimize applications for SPEs. And it won't be a trivial task.
I'll do this benchmark on wednesday thenwsippel said:Dhrystone is an integer-only benchmark, anyway, and CELL sucks at integer math. Big time. The SPEs are floating point processors, too, so they wouldn't help. Whetstone would be much more interesting...
wsippel said:Why would Sony be interested in granting access to the GPU, if they took the measures and created the hypervisor to prevent access?
And, even more important, why would Nvidia release drivers for RSX, even if Sony relases an updated hypervisor that removes the access restriction, especially considering that they only created the x86, amd64 and ia64 Linux drivers for professional users in the first place and never bothered to release Linux/ PPC drivers?
Are you referring to native Linux applications or the Windows emulation people was discussing before?iapetus said:Only if you're interested in Dhrystone performance. If you're interested in what the PS3 can actually run under Linux, then at the moment the optimised numbers make more sense IMO. Right now you can expect performance roughly equivalent to a 600MHz Duron without a 3D graphics card - that should give an idea of what emulators/video codecs you can expect to get results from.
cedric69 said:Are you referring to native Linux applications or the Windows emulation people was discussing before?
If you're talking about Linux, that's really depressing.
Because it won't be able to do the single thing that XBMC can't do at the moment: HD video playback.iapetus said:Native Linux applications that aren't optimised for CELL. And why is it particularly depressing? That's plenty to run most of the things I want - emulators for everything up to 16-bit and most of MAME at full screen full frame rate, a reasonable set of media apps and standard internet software.
Blimblim said:Well of course this benchmark was only using the PPE. It's your average ppc64 architecture so I doubt some further optimizations on this part only would change much of the score.
The thing is, the hypervisor doesn't restrict access to the SPEs, but it does restrict access to the GPU. That was obviously a design choice. Why should Sony change that after they decided to go that route in the first place?Panajev2001a said:Seriously, the hypervisor does not ban all access to anything beyond running a calculator. You could have said the same things few weeks ago "why would Sony be interested in granting access to the SPE's, if they took the measures and created the hypervisor to prevent access?" following the same kind of reasoning you are presenting here, yet close to the metal access to the CELL Broadband Engine has been granted.
Depends. There are three ways to get an accellerated, full-featured OpenGL driver:Also, giving an OpenGL driver does NOT mean opening up all specifications of RSX or releasing trade secrets or letting you code for RSX down to the metal.
Basic 2D accelleration, XV and EXA, should be sufficient to keep the embarrassment to a minimum...Providing basic 2D and 3D acceleration would also be in their best interest not to utterly embarrass their Open Platform offering by staying stuck to a frame-buffer device dragging also CELL performance down.
Still, Nvidia would need Sonys permission, and an updated hypervisor. Even then I doubt it'll happen. PS3 Linux isn't suited for applications that would need OpenGL, anyway. It's mostly about "toys", emulators and such, and maybe an OpenGL-accellerated desktop. But there's still software rendering, so that would only be an option. It's not like you could or would like to run Softimage|XSI or Pro/E Wildfire on PS3 Linux, anyway.First, because the potential user-base would still be quite large.
A driver running on GameOS with some sort of pseudo-driver for Linux that interfaces with the real driver? Sounds complicated, but might be possible.Second, nVIDIA does not have to do all the work. I think they can allow access to the RSX and maybe the Game OS RSX driver (the Game OS IS running on the side or else how do you explain those 60+ MB of RAM unavailable to Fedora Core 5).
Does OOO really matter for a pure math performance benchmark?gofreak said:According to the guy working on the Gentoo overlay, that it is in-order alongside various other characteristics means you'll certainly be suffering a performance penalty using a generic ppc compile versus one targetting cell. How significant, I don't know..
Start / settings / control panel / Admin tools (whatever the english name is) / computer management / hard driveJeffDowns said:how in the world do i format my usb external HDD to Fat 32? I right click and select format, and it only gives me the option to format in NTFS... I tried booting from the windows CD, and the only thingt it'll let me do is partition the drive... it won't let me near formatting... Is there a third party app i can use? help!
As it been confirmed that RSX is blocked by the hypervisor? It could simply be a matter of not having the drivers for Xorg yet.wsippel said:The thing is, the hypervisor doesn't restrict access to the SPEs, but it does restrict access to the GPU. That was obviously a design choice. Why should Sony change that after they decided to go that route in the first place?
Blimblim said:Does OOO really matter for a pure math performance benchmark?
Blimblim said:It could simply be a matter of not having the drivers for Xorg yet.
That's what I think after browsing the Sony documentations. Maybe I got it wrong. Someone quoted the passage in question in this very thread if I remember correctly.Blimblim said:As it been confirmed that RSX is blocked by the hypervisor? It could simply be a matter of not having the drivers for Xorg yet.
Yeah that was me, but in another threadwsippel said:That's what I think after browsing the Sony documentations. Maybe I got it wrong. Someone quoted the passage in question in this very thread if I remember correctly.
Sony said:Although the GPU is connected directly to CBE, no direct access by guest OSes to the GPU is allowed currently.