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[Xenoflare]

399 to 499 would be your target. There is no way Sony is going higher than 499 for a current gen premium upgrade. I would say 399 is most likely with 449 or 499 bundles.

I am more interested in the Canadian price since up here everything is getting inflated due to our weakening dollar. The PSVR being $550 and the 2TB Xbox 1S being $500 is not a good sign. Particularly with the fact that both Sony and Nintendo bumped prices up of their devices that shares the same sku.

The 500GB PS4 got bumped by 50 dollars, and then got a 20 dollar cut when US got their 50 dollar cut. That made me a salty Canadian.

I miss the days where everything was on parity

 

[Inuhanyou]

Is it a uncommon sentiment to think Sony will not be releasing a Slim?

I think NEO is supposed to be their alternative to a slim model with the OG PS4 lowering in price being the competing version to S and OG XB1

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Is it a uncommon sentiment to think Sony will not be releasing a Slim?

I think NEO is supposed to be their alternative to a slim model with the OG PS4 lowering in price being the competing version to S and OG XB1

The PS4 is already small, and they've made them a little smaller since with new models. So i'd agree with you.

 

[Xenoflare]

Is it a uncommon sentiment to think Sony will not be releasing a Slim?

I think NEO is supposed to be their alternative to a slim model with the OG PS4 lowering in price being the competing version to S and OG XB1

Well, the PS4 is indeed quite compact already. The only "slim" I could think of is one that doesn't use the angular deisng and makes it boxy, but that's just me since that would look like an Xbox 1S.

OG XB1 is definitely going to be replaced by S though, I have a feeling that Neo might just be the slim where OG PS4 is getting phased out by some steep sales. Unless the Neo is priced much higher than $399 US.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Remember that Andrew house said that OG PS4 was not going to get phased out once NEO comes. OG PS4 is supposed to be the lower cost alternative to the higher end NEO after all...although i say NEO is the 'slim' version of this gen, i just mean in terms of a refresh for all intents and purposes, its not literally going to be their new PS4.

I think advertising NEO with 4K output and UHD and HDR alternative in addition to the power increase will be apart of their 'premium' cost.

I wonder what their margins on OG PS4 are? I'm assuming they have long since broken even on the HW and gotten to decent profitability with every unit.

 

[III-V]

I'm not sure there will be a slim/UHD PS4 to be honest. Sony went out their way to state Neo was coming and that it would just be a high-end PS4 to be sold alongside the current system.

If they were to do this then it would piss even more people off. Especially those who have bought one in the last couple of months.

Outside a vague analyst? tweet there might be a slim PS4 in addition to Neo, there have been no real rumours of one.

Brush, UHD game consoles shipped in 2013 so this is old news.

If Sony chooses not to implement the UHD media it would be lol outrageous stupid.

My expectation: Slimmer, more powerful, out in time for holiday 2016 and UHD media compliant.

Also: 18GBps HDMI 2.0a, 10 bit color, wide color gamut Rec. 2020, HDR10 compatible (Dolby Vision unlikely), HDCP 2.2, & 4k @ 60Hz capable - media, games not impossible, but unlikely)

 

[Xenoflare]

Remember that Andrew house said that OG PS4 was not going to get phased out once NEO comes. OG PS4 is supposed to be the lower cost alternative to the higher end NEO after all...although i say NEO is the 'slim' version of this gen, i just mean in terms of a refresh for all intents and purposes, its not literally going to be their new PS4.

I wonder what their margins on OG PS4 are? I'm assuming they have long since broken even on the HW and gotten to decent profitability with every unit.

I missed on that part then, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Brush, UHD game consoles shipped in 2013 so this is old news.

If Sony chooses not to implement the UHD media it would be lol outrageous stupid.

Why would it be outrageous and stupid? I think it would make sense, they are not confusing their branding.You get a PS4 or a PS4K, PS4K has enhanced features including enhanced performance, PS4 does not.

 

[III-V]

Why would it be outrageous and stupid? I think it would make sense, they are not confusing their branding.You get a PS4 or a PS4K, PS4K has enhanced features including enhanced performance, PS4 does not.

Maybe you misinterpreted my sentiments.

They are most certainly releasing a PS4K with enhanced features like.... UHD player along with a CPU/GPU boost.

It would be a mistake not to do so.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Maybe you misinterpreted my sentiments.

They are most certainly releasing a PS4K with enhanced features like.... UHD player along with a CPU/GPU boost.

It would be a mistake not to do so.

But..we already knew that is coming?

I thought you meant an additional PS4 Slim that has the same power as OG PS4 but has a UHD player and 4K output like Xbox S.

 

[III-V]

But..we already knew that is coming?

I thought you meant an additional PS4 Slim that has the same power as OG PS4 but has a UHD player and 4K output like Xbox S.

The Jeff Rigby bit? No just some fun.

No I do not see a operate slim model released alongside Neo. I see Neo as an premium upgraded slim model.

 

[Inuhanyou]

The Jeff Rigby bit? No just some fun.

No I do not see a operate slim model released alongside Neo. I see Neo as an premium upgraded slim model.

Ah i see, gotcha. I fully agree

 

[onQ123]

Are we all on the same page now?


4K/QHD will be for games & it's not just media.

4k/QHD will be the render output & not just upscaled to 4K/UHD. (Mostly using cheaper rendering techniques)


4K/QHD isn't going to be limited to indie games, AAA games will also have a 4K/UHD render output.






** I'm using QHD to cover the other resolutions that are in the 4K range like 3200 x 1800 , 3520 x 1980 & so on.

*edit: QHD

 

[xenorevlis]

** I'm using UHD to cover the other resolutions that are in the 4K range like 3200 x 1800 , 3520 x 1980 & so on.

UHD is 4K and 8K resolution for TV.

 

[rambis]

Is it a uncommon sentiment to think Sony will not be releasing a Slim?

I think NEO is supposed to be their alternative to a slim model with the OG PS4 lowering in price being the competing version to S and OG XB1

I don't know about a slim form factor, even though its probably likely. But there is certainly gonna be die shrinks. Thats basically what makes Neo possible so im pretty sure they are gonna move the PS4 OG to the new process as well.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I don't know about a slim form factor, even though its probably likely. But there is certainly gonna be die shrinks. Thats basically what makes Neo possible so im pretty sure they are gonna move the PS4 OG to the new process as well.

I don't think they will, because one speculated reason why they didn't just make a normal PS4 SLIM in the first place and not bother with NEO was because the price savings from that die shrink of the original PS4 hardware would be minimal compared to previous generations of die shrinks, and it was more financially sound to just got with an upgraded unit and try something else.

From what i've heard bandied about, XB1 S might not be using 16/14nm to begin with for the same reason, but is simply a unit with redesigned external casing and addition of HDMI 2.0 and elimination of some internal components like the kinect slot, as the original VCR case was EXTREMELY conservative in terms of airflow

 

[onQ123]

UHD is 4K and 8K resolution for TV.

Guess I should have used QHD

 

[Lady Gaia]

I don't see how such approach would benefit them. Tell me what the Neo is capable of, and let me prepare.

At launch most new products are supply constrained. There's no need to give people time to prepare when there are plenty who will gladly pony up for the latest technology. Contrary to what many here believe, it isn't just the devoted gaming enthusiast who would be interested. There are enough people who have the means to own "the new hotness" to show off their 4K display and showcase PSVR.

Are we all on the same page now?

4K/QHD will be for games & it's not just media.

I don't think it matters much what page we're all on. Developers will make up their own minds about where best to use the extra horsepower. I will be honestly surprised if more than one in ten AAA titles actually uses a 4K framebuffer, but there's no question that everything will output at 4K. I still expect most to be upscaled from 1080p, QHD, or some other sub-4K resolution ... unless there's a bump in the leaked specs for Neo.

 

[onQ123]

I don't think it matters much what page we're all on. Developers will make up their own minds about where best to use the extra horsepower. I will be honestly surprised if more than one in ten AAA titles actually uses a 4K framebuffer, but there's no question that everything will output at 4K. I still expect most to be upscaled from 1080p, QHD, or some other sub-4K resolution ... unless there's a bump in the leaked specs for Neo.

Look at the paper it will be a different frame buffer for HDTVs & 4KTVs so I'm guessing devs will be able to take advantage of the power in both ways, have better graphic effects & so on in HD but higher resolution in 4K. Also they are telling devs to get in touch with them if they can't reach 3200 x 1800 & that they would rather they use checkerboard rendering & other cheaper rendering tech to get a frame buffer closer to 4K vs using 1440P upscaled because 1440P upscaled don't look much different from 1080P on a HDTV.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Look at the paper it will be a different frame buffer for HDTVs & 4KTVs

It can be, but it doesn't have to be. Actually rendering at 4K native is quite the commitment from both a bandwidth and computation perspective. I fully expect a lot of developers to choose eye candy over resolving extra detail still, but I'm sure there will be titles where the converse makes sense.

I'm guessing devs will be able to take advantage of the power in both ways, have better graphic effects & so on in HD but higher resolution in 4K.

Do you really think owners of 4K displays are going to be okay with that tradeoff? I wouldn't be, personally. I expect the raw resolution of 4K will have less impact on me than HDR and wide gamut color representations. We'll see a lot of experimentation and things will settle out in time.

Also they are telling devs to get in touch with them if they can't reach 3200 x 1800 & that they would rather they use checkerboard rendering & other cheaper rendering tech

The same developers are already using similar techniques to accomplish as much as possible at 1080p on the PS4. Now you're talking about drawing 275% as many pixels – using only 225% as much GPU horsepower and only 124% as much bandwidth. Something has got to give. Perhaps they have something more up their sleeve (coverage analysis at full resolution and quarter resolution pixel shaders?) I'm anxious to find out, but as it is ... I'm not expecting miracles.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Is it a uncommon sentiment to think Sony will not be releasing a Slim?

I think NEO is supposed to be their alternative to a slim model with the OG PS4 lowering in price being the competing version to S and OG XB1

It think it would be a bad business decision to let Xbox be cheapest UHD player by at least $100 and that will be the situation if the Neo is the only 4K capabe PS4. Charging a premium for that feature when the competition has it at mass market price won't be very attractive or competitive.

I mean I think Sony could get by doing it that way, but it wouldn't be the best move.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It think it would be a bad business decision to let Xbox be cheapest UHD player by at least $100 and that will be the situation if the Neo is the only 4K capabe PS4. Charging a premium for that feature when the competition has it at mass market price won't be very attractive or competitive.

I mean I think Sony could get by doing it that way, but it wouldn't be the best move.

I don't think they are charging just for being a UHD player in that instance, but a PS4K that just happens to have those features as well as icing on the cake. Especially if they price it at 399 will be a decent value.

I don't think a disc drive has the same pull that a dvd drive did in 2000, although it is still welcome for that new standard

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I don't think they are charging just for being a UHD player in that instance, but a PS4K that just happens to have those features as well as icing on the cake. Especially if they price it at 399 will be a decent value.

I don't think a disc drive has the same pull that a dvd drive did in 2000, although it is still welcome for that new standard

It is not just the disc drive. 4K streaming is going to be a big deal soon, probably moreso than than disc playback and it can do both. For the average consumer that isn't too invested in graphics the Xbox One S will be a much better value as a media. But bring a better multimedia device hasn't done much for the Xbox One so far so maybe I am overestimating its importance.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It is not just the disc drive. 4K streaming is going to be a big deal soon, probably moreso than than disc playback and it can do both. For the average consumer that isn't too invested in graphics the Xbox One S will be a much better value as a media. But bring a better multimedia device hasn't done much for the Xbox One so far so maybe I am overestimating its importance.

I think your right on that last point.

I don't think media features in that way have much pull for or against consoles at that point, although its still something i'm sure is considered by some at some point

 

[pswii60]

It is not just the disc drive. 4K streaming is going to be a big deal soon, probably moreso than than disc playback and it can do both. For the average consumer that isn't too invested in graphics the Xbox One S will be a much better value as a media. But bring a better multimedia device hasn't done much for the Xbox One so far so maybe I am overestimating its importance.

I don't think 4K streaming will be a big deal in consoles as the vast majority of 4K TVs you can buy already have Amazon and Netflix apps integrated with 4K streaming.

 

[onQ123]

It can be, but it doesn't have to be. Actually rendering at 4K native is quite the commitment from both a bandwidth and computation perspective. I fully expect a lot of developers to choose eye candy over resolving extra detail still, but I'm sure there will be titles where the converse makes sense.

Do you really think owners of 4K displays are going to be okay with that tradeoff? I wouldn't be, personally. I expect the raw resolution of 4K will have less impact on me than HDR and wide gamut color representations. We'll see a lot of experimentation and things will settle out in time.

The same developers are already using similar techniques to accomplish as much as possible at 1080p on the PS4. Now you're talking about drawing 275% as many pixels – using only 225% as much GPU horsepower and only 124% as much bandwidth. Something has got to give. Perhaps they have something more up their sleeve (coverage analysis at full resolution and quarter resolution pixel shaders?) I'm anxious to find out, but as it is ... I'm not expecting miracles.

They are making Neo with 4K in mind & I'm guessing that they will use the HWS to create a custom engine pipeline for checkerboard rendering like what is being done for reprojection so that it can be done using as little gpu time as possible. and yes we will be ok with that trade off because 4K look really good & it's not like they are going to take the time to make these PS4 games look like a different game in 1080P it's still going to be the same game with higher settings & I'm willing to bet that the checkerboard rendering make the game look close enough to conventional 4K that it will look better than 1080P with higher settings. (unless they use that extra power for ray tracing or something that really change the look of the games but even then we can just set the output of the Neo to 1080P & uncheck 4K )

 

[Coxy100]

399 to 499 would be your target. There is no way Sony is going higher than 499 for a current gen premium upgrade. I would say 399 is most likely with 449 or 499 bundles.

Sounds about right. I'm also hoping they reduce the ps4 price at the same time - I'd love to buy one at Christmas (only xb1 at the mo)

 

[martino]

They are making Neo with 4K in mind & I'm guessing that they will use the HWS to create a custom engine pipeline for checkerboard rendering like what is being done for reprojection so that it can be done using as little gpu time as possible. and yes we will be ok with that trade off because 4K look really good & it's not like they are going to take the time to make these PS4 games look like a different game in 1080P it's still going to be the same game with higher settings & I'm willing to bet that the checkerboard rendering make the game look close enough to conventional 4K that it will look better than 1080P with higher settings. (unless they use that extra power for ray tracing or something that really change the look of the games but even then we can just set the output of the Neo to 1080P & uncheck 4K )

or they will downsample to a 1080p buffer to keep same experience with better iq for this resolution....why imagine complex things ? nothing tell in the slide they must render at 1080p when output is at this resolution. the benefits listed for new hd experience can all come from same buffer used for the 2 resolutions.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Sounds about right. I'm also hoping they reduce the ps4 price at the same time - I'd love to buy one at Christmas (only xb1 at the mo)

I would say a PS4 bundle at $299 is given. I wouldn't be too surprised at $249 for a standalone model on Black Friday.

 

[onQ123]

or they will downsample to a 1080p buffer to keep same experience with better iq for this resolution....why imagine complex things ? nothing tell in the slide they must render at 1080p when output is at this resolution. the benefits listed for new hd experience can all come from same buffer used for the 2 resolutions.

They actually talk about devs using one resolution & down sampling if they don't want to use the 2 different display buffers.

 

[NotSmartEnough]

I don't think 4K streaming will be a big deal in consoles as the vast majority of 4K TVs you can buy already have Amazon and Netflix apps integrated with 4K streaming.

Agreed. UHD streaming in a console is worthless to me as my TV has native apps for that.

On the other hand, UHD Blu-ray playback is huge for me, it's probably a bigger deal than the slight spec boost.

My big question/concern at the moment is whether the PS4 Neo will have two HDMI ports, like some dedicated players. If it doesn't, I'll need to run the HDMI direct to the TV instead of my non-4k amp, meaning I won't be able to get DTS-HD MA or similar.

Let's hope Sony add an extra HDMI out (and a couple of rear USB3 ports), or I'll be compromising sound quality for better visuals, or trying to justify the expense of a new amp.

 

[Lady Gaia]

They are making Neo with 4K in mind

They made the PS2 with 1080i in mind. How many games supported it?

I'm guessing that they will use the HWS to create a custom engine pipeline for checkerboard rendering like what is being done for reprojection so that it can be done using as little gpu time as possible.

HWS, true to its name, is a hardware scheduler. It determines when work gets done but has zero impact on how efficiently it happens. It's critical for reprojection to ensure that it happens as late as possible to minimize head tracking latency — but it still takes just as much compute time as it would without the microcoded scheduler.

So how can a game that is already using every trick in the book to hit 1080p suddenly render at resolutions like 1800p or 4K without a corresponding increase in computational ability or bandwidth? Either there's some secret sauce we don't know about, or it won't happen nearly as often as you expect.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Agreed. UHD streaming in a console is worthless to me as my TV has native apps for that.

On the other hand, UHD Blu-ray playback is huge for me, it's probably a bigger deal than the slight spec boost.

My big question/concern at the moment is whether the PS4 Neo will have two HDMI ports, like some dedicated players. If it doesn't, I'll need to run the HDMI direct to the TV instead of my non-4k amp, meaning I won't be able to get DTS-HD MA or similar.

Let's hope Sony add an extra HDMI out (and a couple of rear USB3 ports), or I'll be compromising sound quality for better visuals, or trying to justify the expense of a new amp.

Can't you just run it direct to the TV, assuming your TV is more modern, and then use the ARC for the Amp, etc.?

 

[NotSmartEnough]

Can't you just run it direct to the TV, assuming your TV is more modern, and then use the ARC for the Amp, etc.?

Yes, I can use ARC or optical to go from the TV back to the amp, but both these methods are bandwidth-constrained. The best you can get is DD5.1 or DTS. It's not possible to get DTS-HD MA, Dolby Digital Plus or multichannel PCM.

The only way of getting UHD video and modern audio codecs is with an amp which supports HDCP 2.2, or a player with two HDMI outputs.

 

[onQ123]

They made the PS2 with 1080i in mind. How many games supported it?



HWS, true to its name, is a hardware scheduler. It determines when work gets done but has zero impact on how efficiently it happens. It's critical for reprojection to ensure that it happens as late as possible to minimize head tracking latency — but it still takes just as much compute time as it would without the microcoded scheduler.

So how can a game that is already using every trick in the book to hit 1080p suddenly render at resolutions like 1800p or 4K without a corresponding increase in computational ability or bandwidth? Either there's some secret sauce we don't know about, or it won't happen nearly as often as you expect.

PS2 was not made with 1080i in mind like Neo is being made for 4K


1st it was 4K will only be for media then it was 4K will only be upscaled 4K , then it was only indie games & no AAA now it's less than 1/10 of the games will be 4K .


The console was built around running games in ~4K & that's what it will do. 1800P - 2160P will most likely be the norm for Neo.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes, I can use ARC or optical to go from the TV back to the amp, but both these methods are bandwidth-constrained. The best you can get is DD5.1 or DTS. It's not possible to get DTS-HD MA, Dolby Digital Plus or multichannel PCM.

The only way of getting UHD video and modern audio codecs is with an amp which supports HDCP 2.2, or a player with two HDMI outputs.

Ah ok, gotcha. Thanks for the info as well.

 

[Lady Gaia]

1st it was 4K will only be for media then it was 4K will only be upscaled 4K , then it was only indie games & no AAA now it's less than 1/10 of the games will be 4K.

Nice straw man you've constructed. Good luck finding anywhere I've ever claimed it would be 4K for media only. I've always pointed out that one of the important advantages of upscaling game content to 4K is consistent output so your AVR or display won't have to re-sync to a new resolution.

So I've gone from thinking most visually lush games will be sub-4K and upscaled to ... er, the same position. It's always possible there's something more to the story than the specs we have seen, but unless those change showcase PS4 title image quality at native 4K is an unrealistic expectation.

 

[DeepEnigma]

1080p already upscales nice and crisp on a 4K set. Nobody would know the wiser (on average) seeing two TVs with one 1080p and one 4K running the same game at 1080p on both, other than a nicer pixel density on the 4K one.

I would rather have higher fidelity graphics at 1080p/60 (or 30, depending on the game), than waste resources on a 4K native frame buffer.

 

[onQ123]

Nice straw man you've constructed. Good luck finding anywhere I've ever claimed it would be 4K for media only. I've always pointed out that one of the important advantages of upscaling game content to 4K is consistent output so your AVR or display won't have to re-sync to a new resolution.

So I've gone from thinking most visually lush games will be sub-4K and upscaled to ... er, the same position. It's always possible there's something more to the story than the specs we have seen, but unless those change showcase PS4 title image quality at native 4K is an unrealistic expectation.

It's realistic to expect checkerboard rendering / uprendering to a 4K or near 4K final buffer.

 

[Sjefen]

So guys do you think I can take my HDD from PS4 and put it in the PS4 Neo? Would save alot of time and bandwith

 

[NotSmartEnough]

So guys do you think I can take my HDD from PS4 and put it in the PS4 Neo? Would save alot of time and bandwith

Nope. I think they are all keyed to the console's serial number. Taking a drive from one PS4 and putting it in another is going to result in it asking for it to be formatted.

I'm not even sure if you could use the backup/restore tool; I'm assuming I'll need to re-download everything I want on the Neo.

 

[Fafalada]

They made the PS2 with 1080i in mind.

Not quite.
GS was designed as a chip for standalone set-top boxes, hence the HD resolution outputs - PS2 itself was neither marketed or targeted at those.
Maybe if they shipped with their original target of 8MB, that would have been different, but the moment 4MB decision was taken, HD was not even a consideration for games.

Either there's some secret sauce we don't know about, or it won't happen nearly as often as you expect.

Well the rumored GPU featuresets are obviously not equivalent, we know that much.
That said - if a game uses some form of reconstruction (like checkerboard) to hit its target resolution(eg. 1080p), would you qualify that as upscaled or not? The other question is whether such methods are commonly used in current gen games (they aren't).

 

[Leyasu]

It's realistic to expect checkerboard rendering / uprendering to a 4K or near 4K final buffer.

What's the difference between uprendering and upscaling?? Will Sony be using their version of the cloud as well?

 

[Sjefen]

Nope. I think they are all keyed to the console's serial number. Taking a drive from one PS4 and putting it in another is going to result in it asking for it to be formatted.

I'm not even sure if you could use the backup/restore tool; I'm assuming I'll need to re-download everything I want on the Neo.

well that sucks

 

[Lady Gaia]

GS was designed as a chip for standalone set-top boxes, hence the HD resolution outputs - PS2 itself was neither marketed or targeted at those.
Maybe if they shipped with their original target of 8MB, that would have been different, but the moment 4MB decision was taken, HD was not even a consideration for games.

There were four games that supported 1080i output on the system, so it was possible but clearly not worth it for most developers. The situations are far from identical but I think it's worth acknowledging that just because a system is capable of a feat doesn't mean it's ultimately going to happen in a regular basis.

if a game uses some form of reconstruction (like checkerboard) to hit its target resolution(eg. 1080p), would you qualify that as upscaled or not?

If the native framebuffer is really 3840x2160? No. Checkerboard rendering to 1800p and then scaling the rest of the way? That's definitely upscaling.

The other question is whether such methods are commonly used in current gen games (they aren't).

We had a launch title that used an earlier form of temporal reconstruction, while The Division and Uncharted 4 both do something more modern. Developers are going to keep pushing boundaries to improve lighting, materials, and effects. Spending as much of their computation, memory, and bandwidth budget as required to render even half of a 4K frame plus the time and bandwidth to pull the remainder from a prior frame? Sure, it's possible but you get nothing to show for it in screen shots or television advertising.

I fully expect far more developers to target intermediate resolutions or even 1080p with other demonstrable visual improvements instead. It will be fascinating to see what actually comes to pass, because both paths are technically achievable with their own unique compromises.

 

[onQ123]

What's the difference between uprendering and upscaling?? Will Sony be using their version of the cloud as well?

There is different ways to do both but for the most part upscaling is just that 'up scaling' meaning that it will take a small amount of pixels & scale them to fit a screen with a larger amount of pixels.


Uprendering you're taking a smaller amount of pixels (or reusing pixels that has already been rendered ) & using them to create a larger number of pixels.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So guys do you think I can take my HDD from PS4 and put it in the PS4 Neo? Would save alot of time and bandwith

No, just like you cannot do that from PS4 to PS4. I am sure the backup/restore tool will be modified in a firmware update (if it needs to be) so people can do so when they purchase a Neo.

Personally, the backup/restore takes so long, I only back up the system files and P.T., everything else I have is mostly disc based, or the digital content is not that large, and just re-download the main priorities, and then others over time from work while the PS4 is home in sleep mode.

But I do feel for those with limited bandwidth. So the backup/restore is one method.

 

[serversurfer]

So guys do you think I can take my HDD from PS4 and put it in the PS4 Neo? Would save alot of time and bandwith

I imagine they'll have something like this:
http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/transferutility.html

 

[DeepEnigma]

I imagine they'll have something like this:
http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/transferutility.html

That would be nice if they brought this back for it. A much smoother process than having to have an extra separate storage unit.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

GPU power wise it's like a generation gap because it's 4.5X the flops of Xbox One like Xbox One was 5.5X the flops of Xbox 360 but this power is going to be used for visual / performance enhancements of games that will also be on Xbox One. The games are the same games.

I get this and I think it'll be cool but I just realized that if this is the case, when do we see a definitive step on next generation software?

If its just visual/performance improvements, when do we start seeing games that can't run on Xbox One?