Always-honest
Banned
Yeah i guess nobody answered his comments in other threads, so he pulled out the big guns. Hopefully he was happy reading all those quotes for 5 minutes.
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PS4 Pro for users with 1080p TVs - does it make sense?
- Thread starter MadYarpen
- Start date
Yeah i guess nobody answered his comments in other threads, so he pulled out the big guns. Hopefully he was happy reading all those quotes for 5 minutes.
Same here....don't want to upgrade my AV receiever.
Furthermore I have an LG OLED FHD 55" TV.
I love this TV and will not upgrade to a 4k LED.
And if you don't sit too close to a TV you will not see much of a difference to 4k
Guess i was just hoping that Pro could handle pretty much everything at 1080/60. If the PS4 could handle Infamous at 30-45FPS i don't really see how the Pro couldn't handle 1080/60 even with much improved graphics.
Audioboxer
Member
Probably makes "more sense". Gains at 1080p are going to be the best.
I have a 4K set and given the choice I'll pick downsampling and 1080/60 or unlocked every time.
I have a 4K set and given the choice I'll pick downsampling and 1080/60 or unlocked every time.
With alot of the games comeing out to PC as well consoles the games already have many different options to adjust for display/performance. Im not saying it will be as simple as flipping a switch but most of the hard work (different res assets? lod levels? etc) has already been done. So, with the advent of PC releases it may be easier than it would have been prevoius gen to target a couple fo different specs for one console.
Is there a requirement to meat some features for 1080p gaming on Pro?
Raiden1018
Banned
Was it worth it?
Raiden1018
Banned
You don't frequent much sites, don't you? It really is sad.
And there's plenty people who even say it. And it will unfortunately go on for centuries and centuries to come...
PodcastFips
Member
^ What a meltdown, wow.
That´s actually a good question. Anyone knows the answer?
Would be nice to get a performance boost with unpatched games (even if it´s just a minor, like less fps dips).
Cob32
Member
This is incredible. I can't stop laughing. I'm imagining Don Mattrick at the other end of that message still bitter most of us rejected his original Xbone vision.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
A lot of sense. Despite the meeting showing how great the games will look on 1080p sets I think they were downplaying just how much better they will look and run in purpose. I think some people who own a conventional hdtv being indifferent with the Pro was an intended result of the meeting. I think they wanted to showcase the pro is for high end users with high end displays. I think once the pro is out in the wild people will discover a ton of differences on a 1080p hdtv set, but for now it is was best to downplay those differences to not make the base model look undesirable.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
If the majority of games get good 1080p options like Tomb Raider seems to have, then yes.
Still, if you want a 'premium' console and care mostly about the multiplat games, I think it's wiser to wait for the Scorpio.
Still, if you want a 'premium' console and care mostly about the multiplat games, I think it's wiser to wait for the Scorpio.
McMoneyman
Member
I hope that there will be framerate improvement on majority of games. That might convince me on a PS4Pro as a HDTV owner.
BFIB
Member
My main concern is that dev time and money is already being pushed to the limits as it is. By having the devs create two or three different methods for their games, I just don't see it lasting very long. They are going to either target a higher frame rate on Pro utilizing the bells and whistles while lowering the resolution for the OG model, or they are going to target the OG model and add up to 4K resolution on textures/etc.
I've looked and not found a definitive answer.
I think we're going to need to rely on Digital Foundry for a clearer idea.
In theory though the Pro should absolutely result in higher and more consistent framerates. Take a game with an unlocked framerate such as infamous, the better gpu in the pro should result in higher consistent framerates.
The only time performance increases wouldn't be visible in my opinion is in a game with a solid locked framerate, obviously the pro wouldn't show any difference unless a patch was released that enabled higher graphical settings, better AA etc.
I've said it in another thread (or maybe this one too) but look at the Xbox One S as an example, Digital Foundry found clear evidence that the boost in gpu clocks resulted in improvements to tearing and framerates in certain games. To be clear those specific games obviously didn't receive specific patches or updates to make use of the slightly higher gpu clock, it was just down to "brute force".
Nuno Pinto
Member
If I didn't have a PS4 already, the Pro would be a no brainer even with a 1080p set. After all it's "just" 100 more, compared to what you pay for a new game for example, it's obviously worth the investment.
As a current owner, nothing they showed until now really justifies the situation of me selling my PS4 for 150~200 and adding more 200~250 to buy this new one. I'd rather have a new console for that price.
As a current owner, nothing they showed until now really justifies the situation of me selling my PS4 for 150~200 and adding more 200~250 to buy this new one. I'd rather have a new console for that price.
I'm Spartacus
Member
Though I don't have a 4k TV nor have plans to get one, it still makes sense to me as it will be an investment for now and particularly for the future. While I'm not sure that I'll see too much benefit at first (though I'd like to be wrong), I think in time that developers will really want to use that extra 2.4TF for more than just a resolution jump and that 1080p will be that sweet-spot for really polishing those bells and whistles. I just think it'll be too tempting for developers not to want to harness that. The RoTTR example seems a pretty good early example that could be a benchmark for the future.
Currently, the PS4 generally hits 1080p with some instances of dynamic resolutions (1080pr) and 900p. So where the OG PS4 hits 1080p, the pro should really be able to flex its muscles; where OG hits 900p/1080pr, Pro will get 1080p with extra effects, better framerate and whatever the developers can pull from the increased specs. Even just super-sampling will bring a decent increase in image quality.
It seems pretty evident from places like Digital Foundry that the Pro wont do native 4k and we might get to a similar situation where the PS3 did 3D and generally was only the first-party studios that put much effort into it. I can see a situation where many developers eschew the 4K "dream" for now and focus on 1080p looking positively orgasmic.
In all, I'm not worried at all
Currently, the PS4 generally hits 1080p with some instances of dynamic resolutions (1080pr) and 900p. So where the OG PS4 hits 1080p, the pro should really be able to flex its muscles; where OG hits 900p/1080pr, Pro will get 1080p with extra effects, better framerate and whatever the developers can pull from the increased specs. Even just super-sampling will bring a decent increase in image quality.
It seems pretty evident from places like Digital Foundry that the Pro wont do native 4k and we might get to a similar situation where the PS3 did 3D and generally was only the first-party studios that put much effort into it. I can see a situation where many developers eschew the 4K "dream" for now and focus on 1080p looking positively orgasmic.
In all, I'm not worried at all
The way things are Sony will have to pay the devs to make the improvements.EA,Activision and Ubisoft are big enough to make good improvements, I just don't put much faith in most dev studios to put in the work. Most benefits will require a 4K and HDR display and i will have neither of them for a very long time. The slim is honestly a better option to me just for the price point.
They want you to buy their 4K TVs mostly.
I hope they talk about a bit more before launch of how framerate can be improved with this, even if its just more stable or even locked. That could be a prime factor to buy a PS4 Pro even tough you dont own a 4K right now
I hope you guys learned a lesson here
NEVER talk shit on Knack
I hope you guys learned a lesson here
NEVER talk shit on Knack
ScatheZombie
Member
I really don't understand why people keep saying this. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how games are made.
First off, this same argument is easily used for 4K and HDR, both of which are more difficult to implement than suggesting what's essentially "high settings" on more powerful hardware. Why bother when there's a customer base of 70m between both systems that can't benefit from either of those? Why bother when 4K and HDR displays are still <15% of the market and won't even be 50% until 2020? If anything, I don't know how many devs will want to bother attempting 4K and HDR when its a shitload more work, lower customer base, and limits bandwidth for better post-processing effects. I expect to see more high-quality 1080p titles than native 4K/HDR titles once the dust settles. Maybe next gen you'll see this situation change once the market fully adopts 4K/HDR compatible displays and PS5/Xbox 2 have the raw power to output that resolution without other compromises.
Regardless, doing extra bells and whistles on Pro/Scorpio at 1080p is literally two lines of code. It's an IF/ELSE statement with different settings dependent on the system. They don't need to add anything to make this happen because every game already has all this extra lighting, effects, foliage density, etc. baked into the game. They're just turned down or commented out as optimization on the the system happens to hit performance benchmarks. Turning them back on is trivial.
On top of that, you really think every major studio isn't going to turn everything up to 11 on Pro/Scorpio and use that as their marketing now? Really? I guarantee you once the systems are out, every single gameplay video, in-game trailer, screenshot, and demo is going to be running on the better hardware so they can make the products look better. You thought downgrades were bad when "in-game" trailers were running on overpowered dev kits? You just wait. You will never see a pre-release game actually running on a PS4 or Xbox One after next year.
And that's still not considering how many developers have either already announced they're increasing performance or fidelity of already released or upcoming games for Pro. And still not considering how many developers have already come forward expressing they'd rather use the extra power to make a better looking 1080p game than an average looking 4K game.
Suzushiiro
Banned
Considering the effective price gap is ~$100-160 (since it seems like Slims are getting bundled games while Pros aren't, so Slims are effectively less than $299 if you actually want the included game) I would say that the Pro is the better option if you don't already own a PS4 regardless of what monitor you're gaming on. If you already have a PS4 and don't plan on making the jump to 4K any time soon, then yeah, it may not be worth the upgrade.
Dawnbuster
Member
I'm just hoping the PS4 Pro finally provides a smooth PSN Store experience at 1080p.
WAR recon zero
Banned
Think of a 3ds n3ds upgrade
geordiemp
Member
I read what you posted and agreed fully, then saw your name and smiled.
I agree, even games like BF 1 which is 900p60 on Ps4, as most Frostbite games are going adaptive resolution, Pro will be a nice 1080p60...
That alone is a done deal.
The Hamburglar
Banned
No it doesn't. Slightly improved stable frames and a few bells is not worth 400 quid.
If they said they would aim for 60fps on most games then yeah.
If they said they would aim for 60fps on most games then yeah.
Namegoes_Here
Member
I've been needing a new PS4. My day one has been acting up the past few months and I was holding off for this announcement. I'm a bit underwhelmed by the pro, most of which I think was due to self imposed hype, but I would like to future proof myself if I buy a new TV in the next few years.
I still think we need a direct question - and a detailed answer from Sony - on if there are any benefits to old games that are unpatched.
With Xbox One S, we saw slight framerate improvements with older games. With PS4 Pro though, it's unclear if that will be the case due to the "legacy mode" and the "Pro mode" we heard so much about when the documentation leaked.
In one of Kotaku's articles yesterday, Totilo asked about this, but Sony's answer only focused on the benefits you would see in 4k. They didn't mention framerate improvements 1080 owners may or may not see on unpatched games.
It just seems absurd to me that they would prevent a game from accessing the higher clocked CPU and vastly improved GPU.
With Xbox One S, we saw slight framerate improvements with older games. With PS4 Pro though, it's unclear if that will be the case due to the "legacy mode" and the "Pro mode" we heard so much about when the documentation leaked.
In one of Kotaku's articles yesterday, Totilo asked about this, but Sony's answer only focused on the benefits you would see in 4k. They didn't mention framerate improvements 1080 owners may or may not see on unpatched games.
It just seems absurd to me that they would prevent a game from accessing the higher clocked CPU and vastly improved GPU.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
Problem is, some games are coded in such a way that giving them access to more power, thus making them run faster, can break parts of the game. It's bad coding, and probably more uncommon now than it used to be, but I'm sure it still happens.
Put me in the highly skeptical camp that PRO will actually support 4k/60fps.
I reckon it will be way more useful to 1080p owners to actually get a locked 60 now. Who knows if you can choose between performance and resolution though. I imagine you should be able to by selecting 1080p in the console settings but I don't have a PS4.
I reckon it will be way more useful to 1080p owners to actually get a locked 60 now. Who knows if you can choose between performance and resolution though. I imagine you should be able to by selecting 1080p in the console settings but I don't have a PS4.
whoa Hexagonal lost his shit!
here's where I am with this thing:
- I usually end up buying the slim revision of consoles because I like the improvements they bring (refined look, quieter, etc) now that there's an option to pay a little more and get more power I am totally in
- if most games just downsample from 4k-ish and call it a day I'm okay with this as the IQ improvements are noticeable to me
- for games here and there that go out of their way to make 1080p mode special I will see it as a huge bonus
here's where I am with this thing:
- I usually end up buying the slim revision of consoles because I like the improvements they bring (refined look, quieter, etc) now that there's an option to pay a little more and get more power I am totally in
- if most games just downsample from 4k-ish and call it a day I'm okay with this as the IQ improvements are noticeable to me
- for games here and there that go out of their way to make 1080p mode special I will see it as a huge bonus
Not true, I've found, but at the same time, a FHD OLED is still an amazing TV.Same here....don't want to upgrade my AV receiever.
Furthermore I have an LG OLED FHD 55" TV.
I love this TV and will not upgrade to a 4k LED.
And if you don't sit too close to a TV you will not see much of a difference to 4k
Vault Dweller 111
Member
I'm sure it will be better. Just not as good.
Personally, I think I'll try to snag a 4k tv on black friday/cyber monday. And if I can do that maybe i'll go another $400 for the Pro. If it doesn't happen I'll just stick with my OG + 1080p TV. And wait for prices to go down a bit.
Personally, I think I'll try to snag a 4k tv on black friday/cyber monday. And if I can do that maybe i'll go another $400 for the Pro. If it doesn't happen I'll just stick with my OG + 1080p TV. And wait for prices to go down a bit.
Thats all I want a solid framerate, its why I usually go all PC on multiplats. I get very annoyed when I see slowdown or stutter.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Is it possible they didn't make side by side comparisons because it would make the OG PS4 look bad or are they just bad at communicating, which seems more likely as of now.
MissCauthon
Member
You guys talking about the 60fps boost in 1080p keep forgerting that they did say that multiplayer games (pvp) ones will not see a boost to 60fps because of people on og ps4 stuck on 30fps. Like Destiny won't get a much imo needed fps boost. They said it would be unfair to put people with 30fps against 60fps i still think fps should be uped for raids and all that other stuff except pvp.
Either way it's dumb because on pc my shity pc does only 20-32 fps on overwatch yet i go up against 100+fps players and yet i can often come out being best player of my team so that reasoning is bullshit.
Either way it's dumb because on pc my shity pc does only 20-32 fps on overwatch yet i go up against 100+fps players and yet i can often come out being best player of my team so that reasoning is bullshit.
Any chance you lot will get access to the Pro before launch? I'm assuming that you'll have some hands on time with it at EGX and maybe you'll get to speak to somebody from SIE who knows what's going on under the hood?
bargeparty
Member
I really don't see this as a big problem or taking much time to implement for new games. It's essentially just like PC with different quality settings. As I recall one dev said the high-res textures already exist, they're created when building the game, they just now have a way to utilize them.
Obviously some developers will take this further than others. But I think we'll (hopefully) see more approaches like Rise of the Tomb Raider.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
In theory the most demanding games this generation should run cooler, more stable and quieter, so there is that.
BibiMaghoo
Member
My impression from the reveal was no, it is not worth it. The content that will be improved I feel will be minimal to nothing at all. For VR I would think yes though, so if you only have a 1080 set but are getting a headset, it would still be of use.
Just a 1080p TV? No.
Just a 1080p TV? No.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Both first light and second son already have options to unlock their framerates and have since launch.
Unless they are removing that in a patch.