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PS4 Pro: Was the lack of a UHD Player Strategic?

Toki767

Member
May 8, 2009
35,857
3
0
Well I hope it wasn't.



Just bought the 299 XBO S off amazon.



I already have a DOE XBO, and I am getting the Scorpio next year. I have a PC, and a PS4, and have the PS4 Pro preordered.

I didn't need a XBO S at all, that is until it was revealed the Pro wouldn't have a UHD BR Player. This forced my hand, and 300 extra dollars out of my wallet.

Why didn't you just wait for Scorpio then? Are you that in a hurry for UHD blu-rays?
 

Oersted

Member
Mar 14, 2012
32,328
1
0
$399 is more affordable than $449. I'm not sure which part of that you're having trouble understanding.

You do know that "Or keeping the cost as low as possible to make it an affordable machine for the consumers?" implies that a UHD drive would have rendered the two machines unaffordable for customers?
 

jeff_rigby

Banned
Aug 7, 2010
3,825
4
0
Florida
My apologies if this thread veers too far into crazy theory territory. If mods deem this thread unnecessary, then please lock. I am just peering into the tea leaves a bit.

Anyway, as I have been mulling this over since the really surprising reveal that the $399 PS4 Pro would not be carrying a UHD player and not matching the $299 base Xbox One S as the preeminent 4K console / HD video consumption device, it made me think of Microsoft's decision to sidestep Blu-Ray at a time when that format eclipsed the ill-fated HDDVD format. At the time, if I recall correctly, Microsoft noted that the future emphasis would be on video streaming anyway. And the 360 was a capable 1080p streamer.

Now Sony codeveloped Blu-Ray with a consortium and have had a hand at advancing its storage capacity. But I imagine any royalties they receive are not too much split so many ways. They do, however, fully own PSN. (Which they raised the price of PS Plus for as well) And all profits derived therein. Sony has openly admitted that they see network services as a major growth area. Now if I expected the PS4 Pro to be my media player for a 4K set I am not thinking of buying a 4K Blu-Ray, I'm better off buying that digital copy and streaming in 4K. My purchasing behavior, even slightly, is altered. Netflix (got that 4K shout out by Andrew House), Plex, and a lot of streaming services have made me use disk drives less and less. So I am in that bracket of consumer that uses less and less physical media and with the Pro I have less incentive to buy that UHD disk.

Games are another area that Sony would see further profits from digital sales. Here we are with the Pro and a standard 1 TB hard drive. If you wanted to stop going to Gamestop and go all digital it is a bit easier to do that too.

All in all, I just feel that Sony, a company notorious for front loading its tech with proprietary formats or formats they want to push (Vita Memory cards, Blu-Ray on PS3, etc.), didn't do so this time. And that might be telling. They are considering the demographic for the PS4 Pro carefully and interpreted what they think are the features most appropriate for "premium" customers who are 4K set owners and / or hardcore gamers. They assume you want the most out of that HD or UHD TV (4K, HDR), they assume you have good enough or great internet and care about high grade network capabilities (5Ghz AC Wi-Fi) and they assume you need enough space for a very large collection of content (1 TB HDD), and finally, that purchasers won't care about UHD Blu-Rays. If you did, you'd probably be leaning toward a dedicated player or the One S.

Edit: Here is an interesting cost breakdown for the Xbox One S found by Gaffer family_guy with analysis by IHS Markit. It is just food for though as we have no idea what the cost was to source Pro components at this time and if this was just a production cost proposition to keep the price at $399.

Source
I think the Drive able to read a version 2 disk is no more expensive than a standard blu-ray drive. Price to include UHD blu-ray is already mostly in UHD Capable as the standards are the same.

We have to remember the leaked UHD blu-ray PDFs from Sony, Microsoft and Fox; they want a UHD blu-ray digital bridge in every UHD blu-ray player. This requires multiple very large hard disks and hardware to convert from UHD to 1080P which also requires converting the color space. It has to serve to multiple other platforms in the home and meet energy use targets. Additionally to justify the cost it may also include a DVR for ATSC 3 Antenna TV which supports UHD TV but the majority of the sub channels will be 1080P not 4K and conversion from 4K to 1080P for platforms that do not support 4K is already a part of the UHD blu-ray digital bridge.

I think the above is the reason the PS4 is not getting UHD blu-ray and I think every PS4 supports UHD streaming or for the 2013 PS4 at least HEVC for HD media like the 2013 XB1. Stand alone 2015 and later PS4s can receive 4K IPTV from a ATSC 3 Vidipath tuner.

My best guess is a stand alone UHD blu-ray player with digital bridge and DVR is coming for our home networks that will work with ALL PS4s. PS4s will stream games and UHD blu-ray player will stream media. Sony makes a profit on both and they don't have to complicate the PS4 OS with background serving a game and media at the same time.

The OPs strategic reason is blu-ray competition with their streaming video service. What he is missing is that Playstaion Vue is coming as a supplement to ATSC 3 Antenna TV which serves TV to the home network as IPTV on a browser screen and Cable's move to all IPTV eliminating the cable box matches the ATSC 3 implementation roadmap. Cable in 2010 published that they wanted to start the move to all IPTV in 2017. 2017 will see the first ATSC 3 stations in major cities which will also see Cable's first implementation of IPTV.

The FCC DSTAC fight (Elimination fo the cable card is part of this) over how IPTV will be served is part of this. Cable companies want to create their own apps while companies like Google and Sony want cable to provide the information needed to include Cable channels inside apps written by them that include their own streaming service in addition to Antenna TV channels. One search engine with access to all media the user subcribes to. The FCC is proposing the latter and Cable is fighting it.

Google has been the big proponent of opening up pay-TV streams, which isn't new. The company tried (and failed, miserably) in 2010 with a product called Google TV, installed on televisions and set-top boxes, that provided an integrated search engine and interface for broadcast and online videos.
Microsoft in the leaked 2010 Xbox 720 powerpoint speculated that the PS4 would support Google TV.
 

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
Apr 16, 2007
2,556
2,000
1,540
UK
Well I hope it wasn't.



Just bought the 299 XBO S off amazon.



I already have a DOE XBO, and I am getting the Scorpio next year. I have a PC, and a PS4, and have the PS4 Pro preordered.

I didn't need a XBO S at all, that is until it was revealed the Pro wouldn't have a UHD BR Player. This forced my hand, and 300 extra dollars out of my wallet.

I'm kind of in this position, but I'm probably only ever going to buy about 10 UHD Blu Rays ever (if my absolute fav films get released), and looking at the UHD Blu Ray release schedule I can probably wait until Scorpio.
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 3, 2014
8,210
336
640
Germany
Lol, people saying that "It's a device just for gaming" forgetting how many PS2's were bought just because it was the cheapest DVD player on the market.

I don't really care either way, I won't be going to 4K for another few years, but it does seem silly for them not to have it.

Yeah, I did watch a lot of DVDs on my PS2. Because back in the day everything was retail.., People forget that in the PS2 and early PS3 era people watching non-DVD movies on their consoles were more concerned about the support of the latest DivX formats than about streaming services.
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
Mar 24, 2015
12,712
3
0
An increased price for something that most people won't use. Sure.
How do you know the ratio of people using it to not using it in November? December with Christmas gifts and 4K TVs dropping at Black Friday? Next year?
This is the next step in BR and not a fad. The adoption will happen, and happen rather soon as we start to see 4K TVs for $500-$700 prices, and PlayStation isn't futureproofed for it.
 

MisterXDTV

Member
Dec 8, 2013
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This is the next step in BR and not a fad. The adoption will happen, and happen rather soon

And you know this because?

After 10 years on the market Blu-ray has 30% market share compared to the 1997 DVDs in the US!!! Without even considering streaming that it's killing them both

From now till the eventual PS5 let's say in 2019-2020, how much market share do you think UHD-BD will get?

I will tell you, maybe 5% and I'm generous
 

Adam Tyner

Member
May 15, 2014
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0
Greenville, SC
After 10 years on the market Blu-ray has 30% market share compared to the 1997 DVDs in the US!!!
Quibbling, but you're basing that on a single week. The numbers are usually at least a little higher, though not dramatically so. You can find percentages all over the place in the weekly numbers:



If you compare, say, the top 20 titles in a given week, Blu-ray actually fares extremely well. Blu-ray frequently outsells DVD for many of those new releases, even.

Blu-ray's market share has also been increasing, although again, it's nothing dramatic, and it's a slightly bigger slice of a dwindling pie.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
42,168
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Brazil
Which is why he said Sony should have beefed up the specs, probably to match Scorpio.

Had the PS4 Pro and Scorpio had similar specs, I think Sony would have a much better shot at marketing and sales as well.
How do you match something that doesn't exists???

Sure Pro reveal with 6TFs... next week MS says Scorpio is now 8TFs.

Pro is a real thing... Scorpio is a paper project to be released late 2017... there is no way to match a paper project.
 

RuGalz

Member
Jun 8, 2004
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License fee, hardware, plus developing player probably deemed too much cost for little benefit.
 

MisterXDTV

Member
Dec 8, 2013
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Quibbling, but you're basing that on a single week. The numbers are usually at least a little higher, though not dramatically so. You can find percentages all over the place in the weekly numbers:



If you compare, say, the top 20 titles in a given week, Blu-ray actually fares extremely well. Blu-ray frequently outsells DVD for many of those new releases, even.

Blu-ray's market share has also been increasing, although again, it's nothing dramatic, and it's a slightly bigger slice of a dwindling pie.


Ok, but even if we say it is 60% to 40%, we are comparing only physical media without considering streaming at all:

Here the market share for Blu-ray against DVD over the years:



But the number of discs actually sold is shrinking because of HD streaming/Netflix
 

EmiPrime

Member
May 16, 2013
10,085
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405
For something to be a fad it needs to take off first in a big way before falling on its arse. UHD Bluray won't even manage that. Very, very few people want to spend £25 (equivalent to 3 months of Netflix) on a movie they will only watch once and the few who are into HT and aren't interested in gaming aren't going to buy a games console when a separate player can do it better, come with a remote control instead of a games controller, have support for the latest audio formats and have none of the stigma associated with gaming.
 

Synless

Member
May 13, 2007
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UHD BD are out for some time, but in all whiners how many actually own UHD BD disc?
About as many as those who own 4K tvs... Which are the minority by far. The way I see it is this, by the time ps5 comes out 4K tv's will actually have possibly made an impact in the consumer market. They will include the UHD then.
 

Adam Tyner

Member
May 15, 2014
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0
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UHD BD are out for some time, but in all whiners how many actually own UHD BD disc?
You are correct that six months is a period of time. It's not enough time to build the critical mass you seem to think it is. Remember, Ultra HD Blu-ray launched in March.

I can't say I buy into the logic of "why do you want an Ultra HD Blu-ray player in the PS4 Pro? It's not as if you have a huge library of UHD BDs!" People tend to not amass huge collections of media they can't actually play.
 

Memorabilia

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Oct 25, 2013
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Ok, but even if we say it is 60% to 40%, we are comparing only physical media without considering streaming at all:

Here the market share for Blu-ray against DVD over the years:



But the number of discs actually sold is shrinking because of HD streaming/Netflix

Graphs and charts are great, but a little bit of common sense is in order here.

Netflix/Amazon/Hulu/etc don't stream the latest releases as part of their basic service fees. In fact, their selections are arguably "useless" in terms of movie watching outside of obscure releases and movies that fall through the cracks/don't get noticed. Furthermore, with rotating catalogs it's impossible to depend on such services to have various titles available to view a few months down the road. So, if we accept that streaming services are having a negative sales effect on BluRay/DVD it would follow that *nearly all* of that downward demand pressure is exerted on the long tail sales of older and more obscure movies (i.e., the wider BR market). The real value of Netflix/Amazon Prime/Hulu is binge watching TV. Generally speaking, cheap streaming services aren't direct competition for BluRay sales of the latest popular films that most people actually want to watch. "Pay Per View" never really caught on in a big way and similarly, mass consumption of the latest stuff via iTunes, Amazon and other transactional VOD services is more of a direct competitor, but it's still niche for now (Personally, I know almost nobody who actually pays for VOD movies through Amazon or, say, MS Movies. They either rent via RedBox, buy the DVD/BR, or just stream older stuff via Netflix).

Now, having said that, most people do view DVD as "good enough" which explains why BluRay has a comparatively smaller sales cap quarter to quarter. So, we could more realistically claim that DVD is still BR's real competition when it comes to first run films. But, as other posters have mentioned, BR often outsells DVD when it comes to the latest big releases (which seems to indicate that when hype sets in people are willing to pony up the extra dough to see the big popcorn flix in high-rez glory). Really, there's no secret sauce here: DVDs are usually a lot cheaper. And for most movies the higher rez on BR simply doesn't make a difference. I mean, honestly, who cares about watching some RomCom in HD, let alone 4K? But, Batman v Superman or, say, Suicide Squad you can bet your ass will sell big BR numbers.

If anything, the market is further polarizing into "streaming for the masses" who don't generally care about the best quality resolution vs. a smallish niche who always want the best via BR (and soon to be UHD BR). Which is to say, the more things change the more they stay the same. Long term I'd say BR/UHD will stabilize and maintain a relatively small but significant piece of the pie while DVD slowly fades away as streaming even on poor bandwidth can more or less replace DVD as the mainstream option.
 

MisterXDTV

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Graphs and charts are great, but a little bit of common sense is in order here. Netflix/Amazon/Hulu/etc don't stream the latest releases as part of their basic service fees. In fact, their selections are arguably "useless" in terms of movie watching outside of obscure releases and movies that fall through the cracks/don't get noticed. Furthermore, with rotating catalogs it's impossible to depend on such services to have various titles available to view a few months down the road. So, if we accept that streaming services are having a negative sales effect on BluRay/DVD it would follow that *nearly all* of that downward demand pressure is exerted on the long tail sales of older and more obscure movies. The real value of Netflix is binge watching TV. Generally speaking, cheap streaming services aren't direct competition for BluRay sales of the latest popular films that most people actually want to watch. "Pay Per View" never really caught on in a big way and mass consumption of the latest stuff via iTunes is more of a direct competitor, but it's still nice for now. Personally, I know almost nobody who actually pays for movies through iTunes or, say, MS Movies. They either rent via RedBox, buy the DVD/BR, or just stream older stuff via Netflix.

Now, having said that, most people do view DVD as "good enough" which explains why BluRay has a comparatively smaller sales cap quarter to quarter. So, we could more realistically claim that DVD is still BR's real competition when it comes to first run films. But, as other posters have mentioned, BR often outsells DVD when it comes to the big releases.

If anything, the market is polarizing into streaming for the masses who don't generally care about the best quality resolution vs. a small niche who want the best via BR (and soon to be UHD BR). Which is to say, the more things change the more they stay the same. If anything, long term I'd say BR/UHD will stabilize at a relatively small but significant piece of the pie while DVD slowly fades away as streaming even on poor bandwidth can more or less replace DVD as the mainstream option.


Wait, when I talk about streaming I don't talk just about Netflix or similar subscription services....

You have to add iTunes, Vudu, Sony, Google that make you rent or purchase HD movies sometimes even WEEKS before the new releases come out on physical disc....

For example you can buy Captain America: Civil War today on digital Services, but you have to wait another week for physical release.....
 

Memorabilia

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Wait, when I talk about streaming I don't talk just about Netflix or similar subscription services....

You have to add iTunes, Vudu, Sony, Google that make you rent or purchase HD movies sometimes even WEEKS before the new releases come out on physical disc....

For example you can buy Captain America: Civil War today on digital Services, but you have to wait another week for physical release.....

Right, I just edited my post to include VOD. Long story short: VOD is still niche. I know virtually no one who actually buys the latest movies on VOD services. Rent? Sure, a few. But just as many who still use RedBox. Most likely what we're seeing industry wide is most people switching to cheap monthly streaming and that *indirect competition* is driving down overall physical sales of the wider optical disk market while BR/DVD sales of the latest big budget whiz bang popcorn flix remain pretty healthy.
 

MisterXDTV

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Right, I just edited my post to include VOD. Long story short: VOD is still niche. I know virtually no one who actually the latest movies on VOD services. Rent? Sure, a few. But just as many who still use RedBox. Most likely what we're seeing industry wide is most people switching to cheap monthly streaming and that *indirect competition* is driving down overall physical sales of the wider optical disk market while DVD/BR sales remain pretty darn good for the most desirable, big budget, whiz bang popcorn flix.

Keep in mind I am a Blu-ray collector myself, I love the format more than anybody else on GAF i think. I am more of a movie collector than a gamer

But ANOTHER movie physical format change in 2016-2017 is crazy given the state of the market.

I agree that Blu-ray will still have his market, but here we are talking about another format yet again:

Do you think ALL the Blu-ray users will make ANOTHER jump to UHD-BD? And even if they do, will they buy the same catalog movies for the 50th time???

There are movies that I have bought 6 times in my life on different formats: enough is enough. Blu-ray is the perfect sweet spot for me.

If I want a better experience than that, I go to my movie theater: nothing will ever compare to that.....
 

Memorabilia

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Keep in mind I am a Blu-ray collector myself, I love the format more than anybody else on GAF i think. I am more of a movie collector than a gamer

But ANOTHER movie physical format change in 2016-2017 is crazy given the state of the market.

I agree that Blu-ray will still have his market, but here we are talking about another format yet again:

Do you think ALL the Blu-ray users will make ANOTHER jump to UHD-BD? And even if they do, will they buy the same catalog movies for the 50th time???

There are movies that I have bought 6 times in my life on different formats: enough is enough. Blu-ray is the perfect sweet spot for me.

If I want a better experience than that, I go to my movie theater: nothing will ever compare to that.....

Now you're changing the focus of the discussion and posing a bit of a straw-man argument here.

It doesn't matter if "ALL" DVD/BR owners upgrade and buy UHD players/movies. Only that some of them do.

BR's litmus test for success was never measured with an "ALL" yardstick. No one with a brain ever thought that BR would completely replace DVD. Most people are value shoppers. Quality is a distant second. It's not rocket science: if one format of the movie is sold for $10-$15 (DVD) and another format is sold for $25-$35 (BR) it's not hard to predict that when it comes to most movies where the extra rez doesn't matter the DVD version is going to sell more (this was especially true in the first couple years of BR sales because of frequent DVD sales combined with the second hand DVD market while most retailers kept BR prices high. BR sales and promos where the BR price comes close or sometimes matches the DVD price have only been a more common occurrence over the past year or two). Studios understand this factoid about basic human nature: Most people are going to buy the cheapest option, regardless of quality. So, BR was introduced as a "Premium" option, not a replacement.

Going forward, same thing with UHD. As I said in my previous post, DVD will most likely eventually fade away as basic streaming services replace demand for most older/obscure movies...but we'll still have 2-tiered optical choice in the market for several years to come with BR/UHD prints of the biggest, latest movies.
 

fvng

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Sep 25, 2012
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It isn't though. Sure UHD BluRay will never be as big as DVD was, and that's all due to the plethora of downloadable content / streaming access available these days.

But, those alternatives pale in comparison to the quality provided on disc, and will for many years to come. Audio / videophiles will always exist, and UHD BluRay is the only option to cater to that market. Along with people who have internet caps etc, and several other reasons.

To not include the latest modern disc drive in a premium console, and made by a consumer electronics giant is preposterous. The response this omission has received proves that. Pre-announcement it was taken as guaranteed by everyone. Now people are defending the decision? Come on.

Sure, but audio/videophiles are a very small segment of consumers. The trends already show digital movie sales are up, and physical media sales are dropping.. current internet bandwidth caps is a temporary problem, as internet infrastructure continues to expand and improve, this will be a non existent problem. I'm sure Sony is fully aware of those trends.. People are laughing of $15 in hardware costs to sony, but if they sell 5 million PS4 pros, that's 75 million dollars saved, and people act like Sony is just penny pinching.

Here are the considerations, put yourself in the shoes of someone steering a company in the right direction

* Digital Movie Sales Going Up
* Physical DVD/Bluray sales going down
* 4K tv adoption is not totally there yet, and wont be for some time.. in the meantime people can enjoy the benefit of PS4Pro on their regular HD sets.
* The lack of a 4k Bluray support will only piss off a small segment of video consumers
* The cost of appeasing these audio/videophiles goes into the tens of millions of dollars

I find it hard to believe that this would be such a fucking tipping point for what is essentially a video game system. REALLY?

I hope the people who are actually moving towards Xbox because of Sony's decision here are actually equipped to reap the benefits of 4K bluray.. and primarily consume movies/videos via physical media. Otherwise it's complaining about something that doesn't even benefit you.
 

Oersted

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Mar 14, 2012
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Sure, but audio/videophiles are a very small segment of consumers. The trends already show digital movie sales are up, and physical media sales are dropping.. current internet bandwidth caps is a temporary problem, as internet infrastructure continues to expand and improve, this will be a non existent problem. I'm sure Sony is fully aware of those trends.. People are laughing of $15 in hardware costs to sony, but if they sell 5 million PS4 pros, that's 75 million dollars saved, and people act like Sony is just penny pinching.

Here are the considerations, put yourself in the shoes of someone steering a company in the right direction

* Digital Movie Sales Going Up
* Physical DVD/Bluray sales going down
* 4K tv adoption is not totally there yet, and wont be for some time.. in the meantime people can enjoy the benefit of PS4Pro on their regular HD sets.
* The lack of a 4k Bluray support will only piss off a small segment of video consumers
* The cost of appeasing these audio/videophiles goes into the tens of millions of dollars

I find it hard to believe that this would be such a fucking tipping point for what is essentially a video game system. REALLY?

I hope the people who are actually moving towards Xbox because of Sony's decision here are actually equipped to reap the benefits of 4K bluray.. and primarily consume movies/videos via physical media. Otherwise it's complaining about something that doesn't even benefit you.

It always fascinates me how deeply molded our thinking is by capitalism that we adopt to the company's point of view, while abandoning our own and of fellow citizens interest.

Having a better drive is in the interest of many, directly and indirectly because it drives up 4k adoption due to being a available option. 4k was a main selling point of Playstation 4 Pro at the Playstation event. But as it stands, PS4 Pro is not capable of native 4k gaming and playing 4k discs.

I can understand when you can live with it, either you have a deep respect for Sony's decision or you are not interested in 4k, but it is beyond me why you go against others people interest.
 

MisterXDTV

Member
Dec 8, 2013
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Now you're changing the focus of the discussion and posing a bit of a straw-man argument here.

It doesn't matter if "ALL" DVD/BR owners upgrade and buy UHD players/movies. Only that some of them do.

BR's litmus test for success was never measured with an "ALL" yardstick. No one with a brain ever thought that BR would completely replace DVD. Most people are value shoppers. Quality is a distant second. It's not rocket science: if one format of the movie is sold for $10-$15 (DVD) and another format is sold for $25-$35 (BR) it's not hard to predict that when it comes to most movies where the extra rez doesn't matter the DVD version is going to sell more (this was especially true in the first couple years of BR sales because of frequent DVD sales combined with the second hand DVD market while most retailers kept BR prices high. BR sales and promos where the BR price comes close or sometimes matches the DVD price have only been a more common occurrence over the past year or two). Studios understand this factoid about basic human nature: Most people are going to buy the cheapest option, regardless of quality. So, BR was introduced as a "Premium" option, not a replacement.

Going forward, same thing with UHD. As I said in my previous post, DVD will most likely eventually fade away as basic streaming services replace demand for most older/obscure movies...but we'll still have 2-tiered optical choice in the market for several years to come with BR/UHD prints of the biggest, latest movies.

My point is that the market can't support 3 physical movie formats at the same time: you think DVD is gonna fade, but after 18 years is still the best selling format TODAY although the price difference with standard BD is very little right now.

So if I had to bet, i would put my money on UHD BD dead way before DVD ever will be....
 

family_guy

Member
Mar 17, 2013
9,675
3
690
Wait, when I talk about streaming I don't talk just about Netflix or similar subscription services....

You have to add iTunes, Vudu, Sony, Google that make you rent or purchase HD movies sometimes even WEEKS before the new releases come out on physical disc....

For example you can buy Captain America: Civil War today on digital Services, but you have to wait another week for physical release.....

What some consumers don't realize or seem to care about is that the price of a new movie on Vudu is either the same price or a few dollars less than the Blu-ray...which comes with the digital Vudu copy. People who exclusively stream are a publisher's wet dream. Keep making it easy for these corporations.
 

Crayon

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Jan 6, 2007
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It was strategic in the sense that they can throw it in another revision down the road and just pocket the money now.
 

MisterXDTV

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What some consumers don't realize or seem to care about is that the price of a new movie on Vudu is either the same price or a few dollars less than the Blu-ray...which comes with the digital Vudu copy. People who exclusively stream are a publisher's wet dream. Keep making it easy for these corporations.

I agree with you, but you know most people like the convenience. If I open the VUDU app on my PS4 today, I see Captain America: Civil War right there to buy, without even moving my ass from the couch! :)
 

fvng

Member
Sep 25, 2012
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It always fascinates me how deeply molded our thinking is by capitalism that we adopt to the company's point of view, while abandoning our own and of fellow citizens interest.

Having a better drive is in the interest of many, directly and indirectly because it drives up 4k adoption due to being a available option. 4k was a main selling point of Playstation 4 Pro at the Playstation event. But as it stands, PS4 Pro is not capable of native 4k gaming and playing 4k discs.

I can understand when you can live with it, either you have a deep respect for Sony's decision or you are not interested in 4k, but it is beyond me why you go against others people interest.

"abandoning my own"

I said in a prior post i have no need for physical movies because i'm done with physical media except when it comes to games. I dont need a bookshelf full of movies, i'd rather have that in the form of a digital library. With respect to Sony's decision to omit the 4K drive, I was merely saying I totally understand from a business point of view why they'd make that decision based on current media consumption trends.
 

Oersted

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Mar 14, 2012
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"abandoning my own"

I said in a prior post i have no need for physical movies because i'm done with physical media except when it comes to games. I dont need a bookshelf full of movies, i'd rather have that in the form of a digital library. With respect to Sony's decision to omit the 4K drive, I was merely saying I totally understand from a business point of view why they'd make that decision based on current media consumption trends.

I do think that in the post you quoted I wasted a bunch of words explaining why you would also benefit. But oh well.
 

fvng

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Sep 25, 2012
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710
I do think that in the post you quoted I wasted a bunch of words explaining why you would also benefit. But oh well.


I see, so basically 4K discs can't even be used for gaming? I thought it only affected 4K Movie discs.

I remember last gen 360 fanboys downplayed and dismissed the significance of BD until they realized BD was also used for games not just movies. I guess this is the reverse situation again? Arrogant Sony's triumphant return?

In terms of native 4K resolution, I'm willing to forgive that. Didn't 360 use algorithms to output to HD since it couldn't do native HD?
 

MisterXDTV

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Dec 8, 2013
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I see, so basically 4K discs can't even be used for gaming? I thought it only affected 4K Movie discs.

I remember last gen 360 fanboys downplayed and dismissed the significance of BD until they realized BD was also used for games not just movies. I guess this is the reverse situation again? Arrogant Sony's triumphant return?

In terms of native 4K resolution, I'm willing to forgive that. Didn't 360 use algorithms to output to HD since it couldn't do native HD?

They couldn't have used larger Blu-ray discs for games anyway because the game discs MUST be exactly the same as the original PS4!

You won't find PS4 Pro discs on the shelves as this is NOT a new generation system, it's an enhanced PS4!
 

fvng

Member
Sep 25, 2012
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They couldn't have used larger Blu-ray discs for games anyway because the game discs MUST be exactly the same as the original PS4!

You won't find PS4 Pro discs on the shelves as this is NOT a new generation system, it's an enhanced PS4!

That makes sense. So the 4K BD drive on the Xbox can only be used for movies then since obviously game discs would have to be compatible on both Xbone Models?
 

LOLCats

Member
Sep 5, 2013
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most people in 2016 watch movies through streaming and DVD. somewhat fewer watch blu ray

the assumption an insignificant portion will be getting 4k blu rays is a gamble but obviously one sony is willing to take, and i don't think it's an absurd or dumb one at the moment

Dvds? Lol...
 

thenexus6

Member
Nov 6, 2013
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Keep it - People either don't know / care or want it. Everybody happy.

Remove it - Say "we are focusing on streaming 4K content". Then you get a massive back lash like whats happening now.

Seems like an obvious choice..
 

Massa

Member
Jan 16, 2009
16,846
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Keep it - People either don't know / care or want it. Everybody happy.

Remove it - Say "we are focusing on streaming 4K content". Then you get a massive back lash like whats happening now.

Seems like an obvious choice..

I wish all products could be designed like that, with no concern for costs and such.
 

reKon

Banned
Jun 26, 2009
15,284
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Keep it - People either don't know / care or want it. Everybody happy.

Remove it - Say "we are focusing on streaming 4K content". Then you get a massive back lash like whats happening now.

Seems like an obvious choice..

Oh yeah there's definitely already a massive backlash...
 

gtj1092

Member
Feb 16, 2008
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865
It always fascinates me how deeply molded our thinking is by capitalism that we adopt to the company's point of view, while abandoning our own and of fellow citizens interest.

Having a better drive is in the interest of many, directly and indirectly because it drives up 4k adoption due to being a available option. 4k was a main selling point of Playstation 4 Pro at the Playstation event. But as it stands, PS4 Pro is not capable of native 4k gaming and playing 4k discs.

I can understand when you can live with it, either you have a deep respect for Sony's decision or you are not interested in 4k, but it is beyond me why you go against others people interest.

Aren't you an avid Nintendo fan. When was the last time the supported the latest video format.
 

MisterXDTV

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That makes sense. So the 4K BD drive on the Xbox can only be used for movies then since obviously game discs would have to be compatible on both Xbone Models?

Exactly. At least for Xbox One S, we don't know anything about Scorpio yet

As of today when we are talking about a 4K BD drive we are talking MOVIE playback only
 

bidguy

Banned
Feb 5, 2013
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That makes sense. So the 4K BD drive on the Xbox can only be used for movies then since obviously game discs would have to be compatible on both Xbone Models?

what ?

you can pop in your xbone game into the xbone s and play theres no restriction
 

MisterXDTV

Member
Dec 8, 2013
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what ?

you can pop in your xbone game into the xbone s and play theres no restriction

You misunderstood him.

What he meant was there will never be a Xbox One S game on a BD-XL disc (66 GB or 100 GB) because every game disc MUST work on the original Xbox One, that doesn't have that drive (50 GB max)
 

J-Rzez

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Oct 19, 2005
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I genuinely don't know why anyone cares about this.... Does anyone even buy 4k blu rays?

Lol.

I have a bunch of those combo packs because I was going to get a ps4k to play them on. Guess ill take my money elsewhere before Sony releases their stand alone player in March, going against their "no 4k player since nobody buys discs anymore but here's Ultra streaming" stance... Lol.
 

Kazaam

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Well, I've said a few days ago in another thread and I know I'm repeating myself but they've lost my money for a Pro.
This isn't a post about Pro's success tho. I'm sure Sony will be more than fine sales wise... the world is not gonna burn. But I'm just as sure they could've been even... "finer"?
A lot of people here keep saying that they don't use blu-rays (UHD or not) and that streaming is the main thing media wise. And they are absolutely right... but just saying fuck you to the people who do use a lot of them, even if it's a minority shouldn't be something to be embraced with praise.
"It's a smart business decision...", they say. So is what Apple is doing. It's still shitty for quite a few people. I couldn't care less as a consumer about how much more they can gain this way and you shouldn't either unless you work for the company. I will never understand the need people have to defend Sony (or any company for that matter) from people who actually have a reason to complain.
I personally have a huge collection of DVDs and Blu-Rays. No streaming service even came close to the video-audio quality of a Blu-Ray so far. I've tried 4K streaming in a few places including in Romania on a 1Gbps. There's no comparison. Netflix 4k compared to UHD Blu-Rays is the equivalent of an even worse Youtube HD compared to original footage or even something like Gamersyde.
Now there's also the internet connection in a place where 4k streaming is not that constant or even possible... I remember when the Xbox always on scandal happened with "deal with it", but I see now this mentality is perfectly acceptable toward people who want 4k media but don't have access to that level of streaming.
"It's a GAMING console". It sure is.. How does that change if an UHD player is incorporated? Sony created with Playstation for the past 10 years or so one of the best blu-ray players and it shouldn't come as a surprise that a lot of people thought this trend will continue. The fact that they left media out of a 4k marketed device is quite surprising.
I was waiting to buy my own UHD player for some time now and of course I was waiting for the PS4 Pro. The thought of the PS4 Pro not having UHD player never crossed my mind and seemed completely implausible while waiting for it (and I'm sure it's the same thing even with a lot of people who are defending this right now). When they announced that the PS4 Pro will not have one I was baffled and found myself in a bit of a pickle... on one hand I wanted a PS4 Pro, but I also needed a player for UHD Blu-Rays. The thing is.. I already have a PS4 and sure they've shown a bit of what benefits I might have for getting a PS4 Pro, but for me that meant getting both a Pro and a separate UHD player. Double expense. Oooor... I buy the Xbox One S and I have not only a great UHD player but also access to lots of exclusive games. Plus plus. Now I can play all exclusives and have an UHD player as well for an even smaller price I would pay solely for a PS4 Pro.
 

vanDoughnut

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Feb 23, 2016
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At $399 I think there are more people likely to bite at that price point than there are people walking away saying "no UHD player, no buy".