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PS4 Pro: Was the lack of a UHD Player Strategic?

Snaku

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Sep 15, 2005
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Gamers are so dramatic these days, jesus.

I own a PS3 and a PS4. Want to know the number of times I've watched a Blu-ray movie.

ZERO TIMES.

I don't think it was to screw over the consumer so much as it was a, NO ONE* will use this, decision.

No One = less than 5-10% of consumers.

So based solely on your own habits, you pulled these numbers out of where exactly, your ass?

 

Clear

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Feb 2, 2009
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It gives Microsoft one thing - a definite checkbox feature that Sony doesn't have. Otherwise you are right, the % of the population who want a UHD-BD player and game console is probably right here on neogaf and they are probably a very small % of neogaf too.

Xbone has always been better at multimedia than PS4 has, but it hasn't translated into sales over the last 3 years. The reality is the only thing that has moved the needle for Xbox is pricing.

So to me, people acting surprised that Sony are focusing on price-point over multimedia just shows they haven't been paying attention to market trends.

Bottom line is that MS have always had "definite checkbox features" that Sony doesn't have, particularly relating to non-gaming functions. But the pure focus on games has served Sony very well up to now.
 

Jangowuzhere

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Mar 12, 2015
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I genuinely don't know why anyone cares about this.... Does anyone even buy 4k blu rays?

I only see huge cinephiles making the plunge into 4k blu rays. Everyone else will just stick to streaming and regular blu rays.

Lol, people saying that "It's a device just for gaming" forgetting how many PS2's were bought just because it was the cheapest DVD player on the market.

But none of these consoles are "cheapest" anything. The hot thing these days is streaming. If people want that, they could just buy a $30 chromecast or a $100 Roku for a more premium experience.
 

Schlorgan

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Mar 16, 2016
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Lol, people saying that "It's a device just for gaming" forgetting how many PS2's were bought just because it was the cheapest DVD player on the market.

I don't really care either way, I won't be going to 4K for another few years, but it does seem silly for them not to have it.
 

Kssio_Aug

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Sep 14, 2013
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It was "stupid", but they probably did it to be able to sell at 399.

I'm pretty sure they will add it later in a revision though (what's bad for early adopters).
 

dcx4610

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Dec 4, 2012
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It's a very Nintendo move. It's like including a DVD drive with the PS3. A 4k system with a regular Blu-ray drive is gimped. It's as simple as that.

Sony has to be conservative now due to their financial situation.
 

Daouzin

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Apr 1, 2009
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So based solely on your own habits, you pulled these numbers out of where exactly, your ass?


You are delusional if you think no one is watching Blu Ray movies on their PS4.

Maybe YOU don't like movies, but there are many, many people who do.

Do you both really believe Sony would ignore this $15 cost if people actually would use it? Doesn't it make more sense that they ran the numbers, saw that no one actually used their PS console devices in this way and then decided, yeah, don't need it. Rather than actively choosing to earn disdain from their consumers?

Seems like their decision speaks about the numbers.

I get that my experience is anecdotal, but I think the decision speaks for itself as well.

Even if you think that's unlikely, fine, it's unlikely, but can you accept that it's a possibility that people at SONY know more about their consumers than you and your anecdotal experience.

Seems arrogant to think so one-sided.
 

nigDASTARDLY

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Feb 8, 2015
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Do you both really believe Sony would ignore this $15 cost if people actually would use it? Doesn't it make more sense that they ran the numbers, saw that no one actually used their PS console devices in this way and then decided, yeah, don't need it. Rather than actively choosing to earn disdain from their consumers?

Seems like their decision speaks about the numbers.

I get that my experience is anecdotal, but I think the decision speaks for itself as well.

Even if you think that's unlikely, fine, it's unlikely, but can you accept that it's a possibility that people at SONY know more about their consumers than you and your anecdotal experience.

Seems arrogant to think so one-sided.

I think that's beyond the point.

At the end of the day you have 2 companies, one offered a particular feature and the other one didn't. It doesn't matter why, it just is what it is.

You either like and appreciate that, or you don't. However, the main people that will buy your product apparently don't appreciate it and they now have a clearer choice.
 

Earthanoid

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Oct 7, 2013
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The margins on the PS4 must be tiny, a $15 part is like 3-4% of the margin. That's huge and probably the difference between making a (tiny) profit and taking a loss.

I genuinely don't know why anyone cares about this.... Does anyone even buy 4k blu rays?

Based on my friends and family, most people don't even know what 4k is. So I'm just as baffled as you about why this is such a big deal to some people.
 

tapedeck

Do I win a prize for talking about my penis on the Internet???
Oct 8, 2005
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Maybe yes, hear me out here, by doing this Sony is saying to Microsoft "See? you have a chance to punch me, do it and do it hard while you can" efectively making them think they have an advantage, meanwhile they sell a few million of this garbage machines to enthusiasts that like to defend at all costs their decisions.

In a year time they will be in bahamas drinking some margaritas while the Scorpio is releasing only to announce a PS5 more powerfull at the same price and with this they will one two destroying Microsoft once and for all.

Sony is palying chess while Microsoft is playing checkers.
Just...lol.
 

KrisB

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Jul 19, 2015
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The margins on the PS4 must be tiny, a $15 part is like 3-4% of the margin. That's huge and probably the difference between making a (tiny) profit and taking a loss.



Based on my friends and family, most people don't even know what 4k is. So I'm just as baffled as you about why this is such a big deal to some people.

A lot of people like to complain for the sake of complaining.
 

Wallach

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Jun 26, 2008
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Based on my friends and family, most people don't even know what 4k is. So I'm just as baffled as you about why this is such a big deal to some people.

I don't see what is baffling about it. Who would care about UHD support except 4K set owners...? Those happen to be the same folks Sony was supposedly largely targeting with this Pro box in the first place. It's just dumb all around, especially when their main competitor is already selling UHD drives in their base unit. It just makes them look stupid.
 

Venom.

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Nov 6, 2015
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Lol, people saying that "It's a device just for gaming" forgetting how many PS2's were bought just because it was the cheapest DVD player on the market.

I don't really care either way, I won't be going to 4K for another few years, but it does seem silly for them not to have it.

VCRs from the late 70s to the mid 90s was the only way for people to watch the movies they wanted, at the time they wanted. DVD was the first viable successor, it worked on 'standard' TVs and it was available for a cheap price in the PS2 - this was a massive selling point!

In this day and age people have so many different ways to consume movies, streaming, digital downloads, PC torrents, Blu-rays etc. UHD discs offer great quality but having it included in PS4 Pros won't have the same draw that DVD in PS2 had. Firstly because it is a niche product as there are more popular methods to consume movies. Secondly because it requires a TV that is not the standard.

Looking at Sony's history at first it does seem strange they haven't included support for a format when they traditionally have pushed new media like this. But like others have said, Sony probably analysed the costings and saw that without paying UHD licensing they could release the Pro for the same price they released the original PS4 (in the UK that's cheaper than the Xbox One S 2TB ) and that could be a big sales draw.
 

family_guy

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Mar 17, 2013
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I genuinely don't know why anyone cares about this.... Does anyone even buy 4k blu rays?

Seriously? It's been out for only 3 months or so. It's way too early to have any significant data. Would you ask this question the first few months of Bluray when hardly anyone had a player?
 

Daouzin

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Apr 1, 2009
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I don't see what is baffling about it. Who would care about UHD support except 4K set owners...? Those happen to be the same folks Sony was supposedly largely targeting with this Pro box in the first place. It's just dumb all around, especially when their main competitor is already selling UHD drives in their base unit. It just makes them look stupid.

I think you need to get out more, the bubble you live in is showing.

I think this video pretty much nails it (I fast forwarded to the relevant point.).
https://youtu.be/dCas7NsGfIQ?t=9m35s
 

Daouzin

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lmao

where did you find this living meme

He's probably my favorite youtuber at the moment. He doesn't monetize his videos and he likes to make fun of gamers that take themselves too seriously when it comes to this type of drama. He also doesn't want to make money from jumping in on the topics since he usually makes fun of people for jumping in on it. Mad props to him, but he should totally monetize.
 

Wallach

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Jun 26, 2008
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He's probably my favorite youtuber at the moment. He doesn't monetize his videos and he likes to make fun of gamers that take themselves too seriously when it comes to this type of drama. He also doesn't want to make money from jumping in on the topics since he usually makes fun of people for jumping in on it. Mad props to him, but he should totally monetize.

sorry, just to be clear

when you say this, do you mean he's playing a character kind of like boogie

because if not your second sentence does not really jive with the video you linked me
 

kevm3

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Jun 12, 2004
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lol@they did this because they want profits. They are going to forego a lot of profits by releasing this dud of a machine. I like Sony... My favorite gaming company... PS4 spanked Xbox one when it came to reveals. Now let's be honest here. This machine is a dud. Not only will it be underpowered compared to the scorpio, but they're pushing 4k, and you're not even getting native 4k in games and they are omitting the way to view 4k content in the highest fidelity? So essentially $400 for a resolution boost and framerate upgrade.

http://www.polygon.com/2016/9/9/12867004/ps4-pro-vs-pc-xbox-one-project-scorpio

Whenever Sony gets a significant lead, they just make terrible decisions, and this seems to be another one. They really think they're going to capture the PC market with this system, and on top of that, RAISING the price of being able to play games online by $10? Let's see, maybe one of the reasons gamers are going to PC is because they don't have to pay to play online. They don't have to get a completely new machine to get graphical updates.
 

brickarts295

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Mar 10, 2013
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Maybe Sony wants to use UHD Blu-ray disc as game discs with the PS5? Kinda like what they did with PS3 games running on BD.
 

DangerMouse

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May 27, 2013
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It gives Microsoft one thing - a definite checkbox feature that Sony doesn't have. Otherwise you are right, the % of the population who want a UHD-BD player and game console is probably right here on neogaf and they are probably a very small % of neogaf too.

A completely media, non-game thing though in their case, since games will not ship on UHD Blu-rays if they are supposed to work on old Xbones, unlike PS3 games that actually shipped on Blu-ray, some of which even took advantage of it, in addition to playing Blu-ray movies, same for PS2 games that actually shipped on DVDs, at presumably a higher price no less.

I'd have loved the drive, but it's also true people would have complained if the price was higher just because of it.
 

kevm3

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Jun 12, 2004
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I'm just curious, since people are using excuses that it's 'all about the games'. What exactly will the PS4 Pro be doing over the One S, much less the Scorpio in regards to games? If the Pro was going to be more powerful than the Scorpio and at a cheaper price, then I'd understand the 'all about the games' argument. Also, if it's 'all about the games', there would be no need to focus on the streaming aspect of the system because people wouldn't be focused on streaming. Sony could just use that streaming budget and create more games.

The problem is, if the Scorpio is significantly more powerful and includes the uhd drive and is within $50 of price, then what advantage is coming from Sony cheaping out on the Pro and not putting in that uhd drive? I think what Sony is banking on is that most people have most of their friends currently in the Sony ecosystem right now, so Microsoft would have to really wow with the Scorpio in order to have people switch over.
 
Jun 12, 2016
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I can understand why some people are mad but at the end of the day PS4 Pro will mostly be used to play games. I've had PS3 and PS4 since they both launched and I rarely if ever use them to watch blurays, they are used 99.999% of the time for games. I have a separate bluray player connected to an HD Projector for movies. By the time 4K adoption gets to the point where this is a problem for Sony the PS5 will already be out and there will be tons of cheap UHD players out.
 

TalentBurke

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Sep 28, 2013
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I'm just curious, since people are using excuses that it's 'all about the games'. What exactly will the PS4 Pro be doing over the One S, much less the Scorpio in regards to games? If the Pro was going to be more powerful than the Scorpio and at a cheaper price, then I'd understand the 'all about the games' argument. Also, if it's 'all about the games', there would be no need to focus on the streaming aspect of the system because people wouldn't be focused on streaming. Sony could just use that streaming budget and create more games.

The problem is, if the Scorpio is significantly more powerful and includes the uhd drive and is within $50 of price, then what advantage is coming from Sony cheaping out on the Pro and not putting in that uhd drive? I think what Sony is banking on is that most people have most of their friends currently in the Sony ecosystem right now, so Microsoft would have to really wow with the Scorpio in order to have people switch over.

How much does the Xbox "Scorpio" cost?
 

Elios83

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Jun 30, 2004
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I'm just curious, since people are using excuses that it's 'all about the games'. What exactly will the PS4 Pro be doing over the One S, much less the Scorpio in regards to games? If the Pro was going to be more powerful than the Scorpio and at a cheaper price, then I'd understand the 'all about the games' argument. Also, if it's 'all about the games', there would be no need to focus on the streaming aspect of the system because people wouldn't be focused on streaming. Sony could just use that streaming budget and create more games.

The problem is, if the Scorpio is significantly more powerful and includes the uhd drive and is within $50 of price, then what advantage is coming from Sony cheaping out on the Pro and not putting in that uhd drive? I think what Sony is banking on is that most people have most of their friends currently in the Sony ecosystem right now, so Microsoft would have to really wow with the Scorpio in order to have people switch over.

The problem is that your scenario is impossible to happen.
Sony will get a year head start offering the best way to play games on consoles. For a full year they will offer on the market a console three times more powerful that the best the competition has to offer and at relatively cheap price.
They'll have the time to build a significant library of titles supporting it while Scorpio will start basically from scratch like the Pro this year.
Given the lower specs and the cheaper drive Sony has even more room to cut the price aggressively next year. Scorpio won't cost 399$ at launch unless Microsft takes a hit because its design is closer to a new console while the Pro is just an upgraded PS4 that will go down in price easily.
 

Brad Grenz

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Whenever Sony gets a significant lead, they just make terrible decisions, and this seems to be another one. They really think they're going to capture the PC market with this system, and on top of that, RAISING the price of being able to play games online by $10? Let's see, maybe one of the reasons gamers are going to PC is because they don't have to pay to play online. They don't have to get a completely new machine to get graphical updates.

Yeah, they raised the price of plus to the same price Gold was for a decade before they ever started including games and plus still includes 50% more games each month than gold. How offensive! /S
 

Detective

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Mar 3, 2014
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Maybe yes, hear me out here, by doing this Sony is saying to Microsoft "See? you have a chance to punch me, do it and do it hard while you can" efectively making them think they have an advantage, meanwhile they sell a few million of this garbage machines to enthusiasts that like to defend at all costs their decisions.

In a year time they will be in bahamas drinking some margaritas while the Scorpio is releasing only to announce a PS5 more powerfull at the same price and with this they will one two destroying Microsoft once and for all.

Sony is palying chess while Microsoft is playing checkers.

looooooooool

Just....wow
I hope some day you get a job at Sony man. This is just painful to read.
 

shouamabane

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Jun 21, 2004
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I'd love to read some internal Sony Pictures emails about this. They're one of the top UHD Blu-Ray producers right now.

I genuinely don't know why anyone cares about this.... Does anyone even buy 4k blu rays?

4K isn't some sort of oddity like 3D. 4K is the digital equivalent of 35mm. There are decades of content out there for the format. Physical media just makes more sense than streaming to view this content for a lot of people.
 

kevm3

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Jun 12, 2004
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Yeah, they raised the price of plus to the same price Gold was for a decade before they ever started including games and plus still includes 50% more games each month than gold. How offensive! /S

I don't own an Xbox, nor have I ever owned a Microsoft system, and given that the vast majority of Microsoft games are on PC, I have little desire to own one. One of the reasons I highly disliked Microsoft was introducing a pay gateway to play games online. Sony, unfortunately followed that trend.

Now, I DO own a PS4 however and a gaming PC. Having to pay an extra $10 is offensive considering I can play for free on PC. PS4 spanked Sony because they offered significantly more value compared to the One for the money, but with the latest renditions of these systems, this doesn't seem to be the case.
 
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It's $50 more than what a PS4 or 1TB Xbox One S costs right now. Not sure what people are wanting from a $400 console. I'd rather have the money put into GPU rather than a niche feature for film buffs.

So they never should have call it a high end product because is not.. Is just an updated ps4 made with the same criteria in mind of the original... Build with the same low cost week hardware just updated for 2016 standards.

Nevertheless I think this decision will hurt Sony more than they could anticipate as their main target and day one adopters for ps4 pro are mostly people with 4k televisions and a great part of those are tech enthusiasts that bought 4k tvs because they want to enjoy the best quality image possible and are quite aware that only UHD bluray can provide true 4k HDR media experience, turning this feature in a "must have" for any 4k media device in the near future.

Shipping ps4 pro without a UHD drive is the most short sighted, moronic and cheap decision made from Sony in the last years and a missed opportunity that for sure will kill a significant part of the enthusiasm for ps4 pro among 4k TV owners and Sony fans.
 

FC Bayern

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Jan 1, 2015
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It doesn't effect me personally. I'm getting one for other reasons, so I don't care.

But I can see how it can effect others, so I'm not about to insert my opinion in and defend it like it's the winning side like so many in this thread.
 

Sanctuary

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Feb 10, 2012
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I only see huge cinephiles making the plunge into 4k blu rays. Everyone else will just stick to streaming and regular blu rays.

Considering the fact that UHDs are coming down in price, and on average cost $5 more now (and some come with a standard Blu-ray too), there's zero point in not getting UHD discs if you have a 4K screen (and a player of course). With new movies at the very least. Streaming is only good for TV series, animated movies, or movies that you'll probably never watch again.
 

ScatheZombie

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Apr 5, 2014
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It definitely seems that way to me. Sony has the real numbers on UHD physical media adoption. I assume both media players and the physical discs are fairly low numbers. I would bet that digital adoption is actually higher or at least comparable. And Sony probably makes more profit from digital UHD content than physical media. Especially when you consider the lack of a physical drive is going to drive people to purchase content from the PSN and their content provider partners. There's also not as big of a push from content creators (film, TV, etc.) for UHD as there was with Blu-Ray during the PS3 launch. It gives them another ~$15 of savings on the build that gives them that much more wiggle room to price-drop against whatever Scorpio does so they can remain the (vastly) cheaper option. It allows them to release a new model (Xbox One S) in a year or two that does have a UHD player to get people to upgrade yet again.

Yeah, people won't like it, but there's a lot of good reasons for Sony to forego including it this time around.
 

Sanctuary

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Feb 10, 2012
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It definitely seems that way to me. Sony has the real numbers on UHD physical media adoption. I assume both media players and the physical discs are fairly low numbers. I would bet that digital adoption is actually higher or at least comparable. And Sony probably makes more profit from digital UHD content than physical media. Especially when you consider the lack of a physical drive is going to drive people to purchase content from the PSN and their content provider partners. There's also not as big of a push from content creators (film, TV, etc.) for UHD as there was with Blu-Ray during the PS3 launch. It gives them another ~$15 of savings on the build that gives them that much more wiggle room to price-drop against whatever Scorpio does so they can remain the (vastly) cheaper option. It allows them to release a new model (Xbox One S) in a year or two that does have a UHD player to get people to upgrade yet again.

Yeah, people won't like it, but there's a lot of good reasons for Sony to forego including it this time around.


Yet when the PS5 launches in 4-5 years, it will have a UHD drive.