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PS4 Pro: Was the lack of a UHD Player Strategic?

AllBusinessJr

Member
Nov 27, 2011
528
1
640
Maybe yes, hear me out here, by doing this Sony is saying to Microsoft "See? you have a chance to punch me, do it and do it hard while you can" efectively making them think they have an advantage, meanwhile they sell a few million of this garbage machines to enthusiasts that like to defend at all costs their decisions.

In a year time they will be in bahamas drinking some margaritas while the Scorpio is releasing only to announce a PS5 more powerfull at the same price and with this they will one two destroying Microsoft once and for all.

Sony is palying chess while Microsoft is playing checkers.

I want what you're having.
 

Kazooie

Banned
Feb 25, 2016
726
1
0
A strategic way of saying "fuck what the consumer wants we only care about profit margins"?
 

AquaWateria

Member
Jan 14, 2014
9,550
1
0
Maybe yes, hear me out here, by doing this Sony is saying to Microsoft "See? you have a chance to punch me, do it and do it hard while you can" efectively making them think they have an advantage, meanwhile they sell a few million of this garbage machines to enthusiasts that like to defend at all costs their decisions.

In a year time they will be in bahamas drinking some margaritas while the Scorpio is releasing only to announce a PS5 more powerfull at the same price and with this they will one two destroying Microsoft once and for all.

Sony is palying chess while Microsoft is playing checkers.

I don't want to live in a world where one corporation takes over the gaming industry.

Say goodbye to good consumer service.
 

Occam

Member
Oct 15, 2013
6,366
1
0
Strategic as in more money for Sony. Other than that I think it's a misstep.

It's actually less money because they'll sell fewer UHD movie discs, quite likely fewer PS4 Pros and fewer 4K TVs.
 

OCD Guy

Member
Oct 15, 2014
3,561
28
475
sell a few million of this garbage machines.

Garbage machines, what do you think of the original PS4 then lol

The PS4 Pro is better than the original PS4 in every way (on paper).

Yes the 4k player is a massive shock considering Sony are pretty much the face behind Blu-Ray, and all not including it has done, is potentially lose them some sales.

But they're not wrong about digital distribution and streaming. Physical media of all kinds is a dying breed, let's face it while everyone cried when Microsoft shared their vision of the Xbox One, discs nowadays are close to being nothing more than glorified "keys". They still have to be installed on the hard drive, the majority of games require large day one patch downloads, regular patches and dlc is part and parcel of every gamer etc

While some people are choosing to hold onto physical media with all their might, the new generations are embracing digital content and streaming, people are growing up on spotify, netflix, youtube and apps.

People like me that grew up on cassettes, cartridges, vinyls and VHS are a dying breed.
 

Steiner84

All 26 hours. Multiple times.
Aug 3, 2013
3,189
0
0
Germany
lack of drive effectivly kills the ps4pro for 4k media consume for me.
To my knowledge netflix is the only major streamin service that even offers 4k and if their current offering of not only 4k but all content is any indication 4k content actually consumable on ps4 will be extremly thin.
 

Quotient

Member
May 23, 2014
2,316
0
0
A strategic way of saying "fuck what the consumer wants we only care about profit margins"?

Which consumer? Sony used the PS3 as a trojan horse for blu-ray and it ran the cost of the PS3 up and you had people on message boards like this complaining by the increased cost. I'm sure Sony considered the cost and risk of including a UDH BD and figured that either they would need to increase the price or cut features. They decided that neither was acceptable.
 

gamechanger87

Member
Jul 10, 2013
3,649
552
710
Did you write this with a straight face?

There are a lot of posts in here that were actually written with a straight face. It's a little absurd. These consoles are planned far in advance and you don't just bump the specs like some people in here think.

Sony got straight up outflanked by MS on the refresh. Both sides were planning on doing it and had years of planning heading into it. They both picked their specs and expected dates and went to work. Even without the leak earlier this year, I'm fairly certain MS knew Sonys timeline and spec sheet. Sony was in too deep and MS preempted with their Scorpio video this E3 because they knew how the two would compare. The only reason they rolled it out was to take the wind out of the sails of Neo before it even had a chance to be announced. Why else announce a refresh over a year and a half in advance? They were obviously successful in that as we have been comparing the two systems the entire time.

I have a feeling the incredibly disjointed and uninspired press conference that we saw was a result of that. Do you really think we would have seen that type of press conference if Scorpio was never officially announced?
 

oti

Banned
Aug 5, 2012
37,119
0
0
I'm sure it's all about cost efficiency and it also allows for more flexibility when it comes to price cuts.

I personally am glad they cut it, I wouldn't want to pay a single Cent for that thing.
 

Quotient

Member
May 23, 2014
2,316
0
0
. I have a feeling the incredibly disjointed and uninspired press conference that we saw was a result of that. Do you really think we would have seen that type of press conference if Scorpio was never officially announced?

Sony had to walk a fine line with the press conference - you don't want to make the Pro seem like the next best thing and piss off the 40 million PS4 owners, at the same time you want to present the value it has to potential buyers.

I'm not sure why folks get the sense they were rushed. We had leaks early in the year that games released after october had to have 'NEO' support - so one could conclude they had a holiday 2016 time-line.
 

gamechanger87

Member
Jul 10, 2013
3,649
552
710
Sony had to walk a fine line with the press conference - you don't want to make the Pro seem like the next best thing and piss off the 40 million PS4 owners, at the same time you want to present the value it has.

I'm not sure why folks get the sense they were rushed. We had leaks early in the year that games released after october had to have 'NEO' support - so one could conclude they had a holiday 2016 time-line.

They weren't rushed. They had always planned for this fall. Compare this reveal to the Scorpio reveal or any other console reveal. It was essentially an uninspired fact dump that could have been handled via a press release rather than a press conference.

I mean did anything about that conference get people more excited than just an announcement?
 

Quotient

Member
May 23, 2014
2,316
0
0
They weren't rushed. They had always planned for this fall. Compare this reveal to the Scorpio reveal or any other console reveal. It was essentially an uninspired fact dump that could have been handled via a press release rather than a press conference.

I mean did anything about that conference get people more excited than just an announcement?

I think the leaks honestly did kill the excitement. We already knew everything but the price and a vague notion of a timeframe for release.

Announcing a mid-range refresh is always going to be tough, do it via a press release and there will be a perception that its not the companies focus, do it during a big extravaganza like E3/Gamecom and it takes to much focus, it seems a low-key event like this is best compromise.
 

Tactica

Neo Member
Nov 18, 2013
57
0
0
This lack of UHD-BD drive is so blown out of propotion. I've encountered countless people who don't even know what it actually means and have an illusion that it's somehow required for 4K gaming.

Personally I'd like to have seen it included in the Pro, but I've bought like 2 normal BD's in the last five years, so not really that big of a loss in reality.

I would love to see a poll here, of how many Xbox One S owners have actually bought a true UHD-BD movie. If you truly are a connoisseur consumer of the highest quality entertainment possible, and consume UHD-BD's, you should be rejoicing about the graphical advancements of the PS4 Pro - which for now (or very soon) is by far the most advanced gaming console available.
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 3, 2014
8,210
336
640
Germany
I'm sure it's all about cost efficiency and it also allows for more flexibility when it comes to price cuts.

I personally am glad they cut it, I wouldn't want to pay a single Cent for that thing.

4k Blu-Ray support, everyone wants it, no one uses it.


But seriously. I'd have bought one or two 4k BR movies if I had the matching TV. Just to see what it's REALLY capable of. And then I'd stick to normal Blu-Rays, because I usually only buy movies for my kids. With Netflix, amazon prime, and Sky available on my TV, the days where I built an own library are over.
 

Hockeymac18

Member
Aug 10, 2013
1,826
0
0
SF Bay Area
Idiotic cost saving measure, nothing else. And it is going to cost them sales, considering that the cheaper competing product (Xbox One S) has it.

One of the most boneheaded hardware decisions of Sony in many years. Whoever is responsible should be fired, or at least demoted, because depriving PlayStation of this method of UHD content delivery (which is the only option for people with slow internet) is going contrary to Sony's goal to increase 4k TV adoption (synergy).

I am still shocked by the level of idiocy displayed here. How could anyone possibly think this was a good idea?

One of the more interesting things to come out of this decision by Sony to not include an UHD-BD drive in either new revision (slim or Pro) is that it essentially opens up a (admittedly smallish) hole/niche for the XB1 S to fill.

The XB1 S's value proposition is currently pretty good (especially at the $299 end): cheapest UHD-BD player on the market AND you get a gaming console to go along with it. It might not deter people from going to PlayStation, but it certainly opens up the opportunity for the XB1 S to steal sales that it probably wouldn't have gotten if either of Sony's revision's included it.

Sony probably doesn't care since they're saving money, UHD-BD adoption is still low (and will likely stay there for a while), and Sony will likely still see huge sales...but as a consumer, it's interesting to watch nonetheless.
 

platocplx

Member
Oct 10, 2014
2,992
0
0
This lack of UHD-BD drive is so blown out of propotion. I've encountered countless people who don't even know what it actually means and have an illusion that it's somehow required for 4K gaming.

Personally I'd like to have seen it included in the Pro, but I've bought like 2 normal BD's in the last five years, so not really that big of a loss in reality.

I would love to see a poll here, of how many Xbox One S owners have actually bought a true UHD-BD movie. If you truly are a connoisseur consumer of the highest quality entertainment possible, and consume UHD-BD's, you should be rejoicing about the graphical advancements of the PS4 Pro - which for now (or very soon) is by far the most advanced gaming console available.
For some its just to show off their tv lol
 

Scrooged

Totally wronger about Nintendo's business decisions.
Dec 23, 2012
2,716
0
0
People who care about 4K obviously care about quality. Why settle for a 4K stream that doesn't even take advantage of your expensive new 4K television? Those of you saying that it's 'good enough' sound like the people who think DVDs are 'good enough' compared to Blu-ray.

Also, some people are saying that 4K Blu-ray is a niche within a niche and that nobody buys them which is why it's okay that the PS4 Pro doesn't support it. This is a specious argument because streaming UHD is also a niche. Most people simply don't have a 4K TV or don't have the bandwidth/data usage to stream 4K.
 

Daouzin

Member
Apr 1, 2009
2,249
0
0
Tempe, AZ
www.evilcontrollers.com
A strategic way of saying "fuck what the consumer wants we only care about profit margins"?

Gamers are so dramatic these days, jesus.

I own a PS3 and a PS4. Want to know the number of times I've watched a Blu-ray movie.

ZERO TIMES.

I don't think it was to screw over the consumer so much as it was a, NO ONE* will use this, decision.

No One = less than 5-10% of consumers.

I don't care if they did it to keep cost down and make more money of if they did it to make sure it stayed under $399.99. As long as the console is only $399.99 this choice literally will not affect me.
 

ReBurn

Member
Dec 6, 2008
13,543
5,001
1,275
SC USA
This lack of UHD-BD drive is so blown out of propotion. I've encountered countless people who don't even know what it actually means and have an illusion that it's somehow required for 4K gaming.

Personally I'd like to have seen it included in the Pro, but I've bought like 2 normal BD's in the last five years, so not really that big of a loss in reality.

I would love to see a poll here, of how many Xbox One S owners have actually bought a true UHD-BD movie. If you truly are a connoisseur consumer of the highest quality entertainment possible, and consume UHD-BD's, you should be rejoicing about the graphical advancements of the PS4 Pro - which for now (or very soon) is by far the most advanced gaming console available.

Countless people in the last two days?
 

MisterXDTV

Member
Dec 8, 2013
1,054
843
585
This is a specious argument because streaming UHD is also a niche. Most people simply don't have a 4K TV or don't have the bandwidth/data usage to stream 4K.

But Sony doesn't have to do anything special to support 4K streaming. Netflix will write an app for the PS4 Pro, that's it
 

Tactica

Neo Member
Nov 18, 2013
57
0
0
People who care about 4K obviously care about quality. Why settle for a 4K stream that doesn't even take advantage of your expensive new 4K television? Those of you saying that it's 'good enough' sound like the people who think DVDs are 'good enough' compared to Blu-ray.

I get where you are coming from, but reality is, that most people still buy dvd's even if they own a FullHD tv.

It's also a different thing with consoles. There is only one game disc available. If you have the PS4 Pro, you unlock better quality automatically. In physical movie business, dvd is the cheapest one, and even if many BD's have a dvd bundled, they are still pricier. UHD-BD's are still very rare compared to dvd's and bd's and atleast in my country you need to order them online from specialist shops. There is basically zero opportunities for impulse purcases. You need to make a choice when buying the media. With PS4 games you don't.

Most people don't care about quality, even if they'd have the supporting hardware. For two hour single use entertainment like movies, it's okay to choose a stream or an easy to impulse buy or rent a movie of sub-par quality.
 

Tactica

Neo Member
Nov 18, 2013
57
0
0
Countless people in the last two days?
I've been following this discussion a lot trying to figure the backlash out. Not here, where most people follow technology, but all over other discussion forums and social media.
 

Heavy_D206

Member
Feb 20, 2015
1,516
330
495
Gamers are so dramatic these days, jesus.

I own a PS3 and a PS4. Want to know the number of times I've watched a Blu-ray movie.

ZERO TIMES.

I don't think it was to screw over the consumer so much as it was a, NO ONE* will use this, decision.

No One = less than 5-10% of consumers.

I don't care if they did it to keep cost down and make more money of if they did it to make sure it stayed under $399.99. As long as the console is only $399.99 this choice literally will not affect me.

You are delusional if you think no one is watching Blu Ray movies on their PS4.

Maybe YOU don't like movies, but there are many, many people who do.
 

Oersted

Member
Mar 14, 2012
32,328
1
0
One of these is not like the other. Vita flopped, but it was obviously a strategic decision. In fact I'd argue Xbox One DRM was too, as abhorrent as it was. Strategic decisions aren't always good decisions, as is the case with PS4 Pro's lack of UHD player.

Yes, all of these were strategic decisions. Thats my point.

Or keeping the cost as low as possible to make it an affordable machine for the consumers?

It is admittingly a amousing thought that a UHD discdrive would have made the new PS4 model and the PS4 Pro unaffordable.
 

QuantumDerp

Member
Apr 12, 2011
324
0
0
Isn't 4K UHD bluray player inherently expensive right now? And although 4K UHD is supported by Xbox One S, it does not seems to support Dolby Atmos for sound, but this is only an issue for those that are sound enthusiastic.
 

driver116

Member
Nov 1, 2012
4,020
0
0
UK
People who care about 4K obviously care about quality. Why settle for a 4K stream that doesn't even take advantage of your expensive new 4K television? Those of you saying that it's 'good enough' sound like the people who think DVDs are 'good enough' compared to Blu-ray.

Also, some people are saying that 4K Blu-ray is a niche within a niche and that nobody buys them which is why it's okay that the PS4 Pro doesn't support it. This is a specious argument because streaming UHD is also a niche. Most people simply don't have a 4K TV or don't have the bandwidth/data usage to stream 4K.

We say this, when new HEVC are around the corner and boom.
 

sant

Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,901
0
0
Decisions like these are obviously meticulously considered and given the direction blu ray is heading it makes sense. It does suck for us who still appreciate blu ray tho.
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
May 27, 2013
7,371
0
0
I'm still sticking with my original view of this:

There's not enough UHD Blu-ray discs released at the moment and Sony didn't even have their stand alone UHD Blu-ray player out on shelves yet. There's no need to trojan the tech in anywhere, so why bother using the diodes on a system they're trying to keep cheap, use as a stop gap, when they can dedicate it to their stand alone player which will probably retail at double the price?
 

Marceles

Member
Aug 25, 2013
1,644
2
0
LA
I think it was a stupid decision personally

I do too, they might as well had gone all out. Personally I think the whole trend is looking like...

 

dcx4610

Member
Dec 4, 2012
3,263
521
710
It's a cost/profit issue and nothing more. Sony's survival is due to the PlayStation. Sony will no longer take risks like they did in the past and will cut corners where they can to ensure profits.

The old Sony would 100% include it. This Sony will be conservative going forward. Microsoft has a real chance to capitalize here. They just need to match Sony on exclusives and not he afraid to attack them.
 

J-Rzez

Member
Oct 19, 2005
14,485
3
0
They cheaped out to turn a profit day 1 on it, that's it and that's all. How much could it have cost them for that part considering the number of units they would have ordered, that Sony would have ordered for their stand alone players, and considering how there's already 3 other companies with players in the market, soon to be more. One of them being Sony, who said they weren't going to make a 4k player because streaming was the future, but now have one next year lol.

And no, streaming 4k is garbage compared to physical in both picture and sound quality. Not to mention bandwidth required speed wise and cap wise. They know they screwed up, thus the player.

Now I'm going to have to buy the phillips, panasonic, or eventual Oppo player. Won't buy their player next year due to this move. And of course, they lost a Pro sale. And I'm not the only one. I didn't buy one because I expected this thing to play them. Damn.
 

EventHorizon

Member
Jul 15, 2013
3,712
423
645
People who care about 4K obviously care about quality. Why settle for a 4K stream that doesn't even take advantage of your expensive new 4K television? Those of you saying that it's 'good enough' sound like the people who think DVDs are 'good enough' compared to Blu-ray.

Also, some people are saying that 4K Blu-ray is a niche within a niche and that nobody buys them which is why it's okay that the PS4 Pro doesn't support it. This is a specious argument because streaming UHD is also a niche. Most people simply don't have a 4K TV or don't have the bandwidth/data usage to stream 4K.

Wow. You are so stuck on UHD that you are sounding like Microsoft's TV TV TV at the start of this generation. Most people buy gaming consoles for the games.

You know what would sell more consoles than including a UHD drive? Selling a console with a bundled game at a discount with the money saved from not including a UHD. Guaranteed that Sony will be doing that once the OG consoles are sold off.
 

MisterXDTV

Member
Dec 8, 2013
1,054
843
585
Microsoft has a real chance to capitalize here. They just need to match Sony on exclusives and not he afraid to attack them.

Capitalize on what? 2% home video market share of UHD-BD?

Exclusives that are also available on PC?
 

Quotient

Member
May 23, 2014
2,316
0
0
Capitalize on what? 2% home video market share of UHD-BD?

Exclusives that are also available on PC?

It gives Microsoft one thing - a definite checkbox feature that Sony doesn't have. Otherwise you are right, the % of the population who want a UHD-BD player and game console is probably right here on neogaf and they are probably a very small % of neogaf too.