• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.
  • Hi. We'll be going down for maintenance briefly beginning soon. Thanks.

PS4 Pro: Was the lack of a UHD Player Strategic?

May 19, 2005
25,274
6
1,300
Maryland
We don't know yet, but if it is priced within $50 of the Pro, Sony might have a problem.

Sony can just drop the price of the Pro when Scorpio releases, that thing is more than a year away. For Sony, they get an entire year to themselves on power for Pro and overall 4 straight years power advantage by the time MS answers them, they have that first mover advantage between the two.
 

Dre3001

Member
Feb 20, 2010
1,204
0
650
While $15 may not seem like a lot to add a UHD drive. When you look at how many units they plan to produce the cost becomes significant.

When it comes to board of directors and shareholders looking at making a profit. The cost of a $15x15-20 million consoles they are probably hoping to sell in the next 3 years of the Pro is a huge cost.

I think the biggest deciding factor was Sony really wanted to stay under the $400 threshold for their new system.

The whole idea that UHD is a dying format that nobody uses makes no sense considering that it only launched about 6 months ago over regular blu-ray discs.

As more consumers slowly move over to 4k Tvs then you can expect more 4k content to be consumed whether through streaming or physical media. But as of now, to declare it a useless feature when it barely launched and people are still slowly waiting to upgrade to regular 1080p or 4k sets is ridiculous.
 

oti

Banned
Aug 5, 2012
37,119
0
0
4k Blu-Ray support, everyone wants it, no one uses it.


But seriously. I'd have bought one or two 4k BR movies if I had the matching TV. Just to see what it's REALLY capable of. And then I'd stick to normal Blu-Rays, because I usually only buy movies for my kids. With Netflix, amazon prime, and Sky available on my TV, the days where I built an own library are over.

I can see that, makes sense. Just to give all that new equipment a spin to see what it can do, really. Again, I just don't care since I don't buy Blu-rays, ever.

I like that this discussion is happening mostly because Xbox S offers an UHD Drive. Makes things more interesting. It's a feature I don't care about but others do, so we'll see how things will go. My expectations: Business as usual. The Pro will sell, the S not so much. I'm wondering if 4K Blu-rays will even be a thing in 12 months.
 

WarpathDC

Junior Member
Oct 29, 2013
1,583
2
280
VA
My god, Sony apologists will go to any lengths to explain away a dumb decision.

/thread

They have screwed up the PS4 since launch. Great system, powerful but with only a smattering of exclusives then shitting the bed on the Pro it's like Ken K. is back. I just want Bloodborne at 60fps and that's not even on the enhanced list. The UHD BD omission is glaring. I am holding off on the xbone S for scorpio as I am 70/30 PC to Console as far as time spent on those platforms. I was looking forward to selling my launch PS4 and grabbing the neo but it's just..bad. I'd rather get a 1070 for the same price
 

Joystick

Member
Nov 16, 2015
383
0
0
I'm Sony's typical PS4 customer.

#1 Gaming
#2 Streaming video
Couldn't give a rats about video discs

I'm glad they're not making me pay extra for something I won't use. Kinectless all the way.
 

wenaldy

Member
Sep 12, 2015
716
70
435
Indonesia
I'm Sony's typical PS4 customer.

#1 Gaming
#2 Streaming video
Couldn't give a rats about video discs

I'm glad they're not making me pay extra for something I won't use. Kinectless all the way.

Same. My daily routine:
1. Fire up PS4
2. Play some games with Spotify
3. Suspend mode
3. Youtube and Netflix streaming
4. Resume gaming
5. Shut down the PS4.

So yeah im one of their target market.
 

Joystick

Member
Nov 16, 2015
383
0
0
but with only a smattering of exclusives

Riiiight. Compared to Xbox One or Wii U? We're talking consoles right? You clearly haven't done the maths. And with 170+ exclusives coming in the form of PSVR there is no contest in the console space.
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
Mar 24, 2015
12,712
3
0
I'm Sony's typical PS4 customer.

#1 Gaming
#2 Streaming video
Couldn't give a rats about video discs

I'm glad they're not making me pay extra for something I won't use. Kinectless all the way.
You comparing Kinect with the next step in BluRay?
 

rokkerkory

Member
Sep 2, 2013
16,509
617
490
Glad some of u are looking out for a billion dollar company. Some of us rather lookout for ourselves.
 

cheesekao

Member
Apr 26, 2014
4,161
0
0
Whatever it is, if by not not including something that most people aren't likely to use they brought the cost of the system down, they made the right decision. Consoles these days are already full of fluff that I don't use or need.

Glad some of u are looking out for a billion dollar company. Some of us rather lookout for ourselves.
Glad they decided to not make me potentially pay extra for something I don't need.
 

ESBL

Member
May 2, 2016
476
0
0
I don't remember the last time I bought a Blu-Ray, I stream everything nowadays. Luckily I live in an area with no data caps.
 

Asherdude

Member
Feb 23, 2008
321
10
1,110
I personally can easily tell the difference between a stream and a Blu-ray disc. A steam has much softer look. Hell, even my antenna gives me a better looking picture than Netflix, Hulu, or Amazon Prime!

I can live with streaming on my 1080p HDTV. But when I get a 4k UHD TV? Unless they figure out a way to improve their bit-rate, I'm not going to be happy with 4k streaming at all.
 

Mr. Pointy

Member
Mar 12, 2006
12,135
0
0
I don't have a 4K TV and I probably won't be buying one for the next few years. I doubt I'm losing anything in the home theater experience if I get the Pro over the XB1 S.

I wouldn't even be surprised if the PS5 ditched Bluray for Vita-like flash cards. It'd be all streaming video and digital downloads at that point.
 

Leyasu

Member
Apr 25, 2014
6,308
3,569
720
Sony: The masters of deception, kings of crafty Tactical geniuses. Even blatant penny pinching is now considered part of their grand plan... A grand plan laid down centuries past.
 

lorddct

Member
Sep 16, 2006
329
0
1,375
Guess I'm not getting a new PS4. Was waiting for Sony to support it with PS4 neo.

Can't believe I'll be getting an Xbox instead.
:( so disappointed
 

jfoul

Member
Jan 14, 2009
2,865
0
775
I don't have a 4K TV and I probably won't be buying one for the next few years. I doubt I'm losing anything in the home theater experience if I get the Pro over the XB1 S.

I wouldn't even be surprised if the PS5 ditched Bluray for Vita-like flash cards. It'd be all streaming video and digital downloads at that point.

At least in the U.S, we're really far away from this happening unless the FCC steps in to abolish data caps. 4K streaming, and downloading 80Gb+ games is a pipe dream for most residents in the U.S. Luckily I'll be on Google Fiber in a year or so.
 

wig

Member
May 12, 2015
598
0
390
They should make a $50-$100 add on (like the 360's HD DVD reader) for the people that must have a UHD player. Those of us that don't want it won't have to pay extra and the option for those who want it is there. Everyone wins.
 

Norse

Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,096
442
1,570
At least in the U.S, we're really far away from this happening unless the FCC steps in to abolish data caps. 4K streaming, and downloading 80Gb+ games is a pipe dream for most residents in the U.S. Luckily I'll be on Google Fiber in a year or so.

Data caps? You using your cellphone as a hotspot or something? I've lived in California, Hawaii, Arizona, and Minnesota with dsl, or cable and have never had a data cap ever!
 

ukas

Member
Jan 11, 2007
1,751
0
865
UHD BD are out for some time, but in all whiners how many actually own UHD BD disc?

I'm not whining, but I own UHD BDs and I don't even have a player yet.. I'm actually waiting for the Oppo UHD player that is supposed to launch and the end/beginning of the year which is rumored to support Dolby Vision. The nice part about buying thee UHD BDs now is that they always come with a standard BD/digital copy and sometimes a UHD digital copy like BvS does. Which I can stream in UHD with Dolby Vision via my Vudu app on my TV. And I have a Pro pre-ordered.
 

thetester77

Member
Oct 28, 2013
250
6
460
4k Blu-Ray support, everyone wants it, no one uses it.


But seriously. I'd have bought one or two 4k BR movies if I had the matching TV. Just to see what it's REALLY capable of. And then I'd stick to normal Blu-Rays, because I usually only buy movies for my kids. With Netflix, amazon prime, and Sky available on my TV, the days where I built an own library are over.

Yeah this describes me. disappointed it's not in because I'd have bought a couple to see what true 4k looks like without the compression of Sky broadcasts or netflix/amazon streaming.

but after that....... don't think I've got more than about 10 blu rays and I started my collection when ps3 launched.
 

Macnair

Member
Jun 22, 2010
321
0
630
Wow I can't believe that a UHD drive is such an important component. I never bought a DVD nor Blu ray but we do have unlimited data plans here.
 

x3sphere

Member
Sep 24, 2006
4,897
0
1,020
AZ
gamercards.exophase.com
Data caps? You using your cellphone as a hotspot or something? I've lived in California, Hawaii, Arizona, and Minnesota with dsl, or cable and have never had a data cap ever!

A lot of ISPs have data caps. I live in AZ and Cox definitely does, although they don't really enforce it... you just get warning emails.
 

oti

Banned
Aug 5, 2012
37,119
0
0
That extra 15 dollars would cripple me financially

That's a solid month Netflix 4K subscription. During that month I'd watch more 4K content than I would ever do with a 4K Blu-ray drive.

Aside of that, the PS4 Pro with a 4K drive wouldn't just cost 415€ anyway.
 

gatti-man

Member
Aug 30, 2010
8,386
465
1,025
42
Depends if it would have effected the price. $399 for what you currently get is great. Available this November and puts squeeze on competition. Long before their launches. If UHD would mean $449-499 then they did the right choice.
Personally I would have no problem paying extra though for UHD but I'm likely a minority.

It would be a tiny amount more like $10-20. The cost in UHD drives is the hardware behind it not the actual drive.

That's a solid month Netflix 4K subscription. During that month I'd watch more 4K content than I would ever do with a 4K Blu-ray drive.

Aside of that, the PS4 Pro with a 4K drive wouldn't just cost 415€ anyway.

Oh the sweet irony. 4K Netflix is hardly 4K at all. Don't believe me read some reviews. Netflix 4K is about the equivalent of a 1080p bluray. 4K UHD is on an entirely different level both in audio and video. I have both, there is no comparison. The difference is plainly obvious on a larger set.
 

oti

Banned
Aug 5, 2012
37,119
0
0
Oh the sweet irony. 4K Netflix is hardly 4K at all. Don't believe me read some reviews. Netflix 4K is about the equivalent of a 1080p bluray. 4K UHD is on an entirely different level both in audio and video. I have both, there is no comparison. The difference is plainly obvious on a larger set.

Wow, I had no idea. That sucks for people who want the best of the best. That's also kinda misleading marketing from Netflix' part then. I'll give it a try for Narcos 2 though eventually.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Feb 10, 2012
10,818
5
620
Riiiight. Compared to Xbox One or Wii U? We're talking consoles right? You clearly haven't done the maths. And with 170+ exclusives coming in the form of PSVR there is no contest in the console space.

At least half of which will be shovelware.

UHD BD are out for some time, but in all whiners how many actually own UHD BD disc?

Most people don't buy media before they even have a player. A lot of people were expecting the Pro to have a UHD. It's not rocket surgery.

Wow I can't believe that a UHD drive is such an important component. I never bought a DVD nor Blu ray but we do have unlimited data plans here.

And yet...streaming doesn't look anywhere near as good as what's on disc. It especially doesn't sound comparable either (Vudu doesn't have enough material right now for it to be a factor).
 

Norse

Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,096
442
1,570
A lot of ISPs have data caps. I live in AZ and Cox definitely does, although they don't really enforce it... you just get warning emails.


Had cox in Cali but never any mention of caps.....you sure you're not running a ftp server filled with uhd movie rips for future ps4 pro users? Lol...i kid, I kid
 

UrbanRats

Member
Jun 25, 2009
40,833
2
830
I think you need to get out more, the bubble you live in is showing.

I think this video pretty much nails it (I fast forwarded to the relevant point.).
https://youtu.be/dCas7NsGfIQ?t=9m35s

Jesus Christ this guy is a living stereotype cartoonish gaming nerd .
Also, if we're talking about bubbles, mass market and parents buying for their kids, no parent is going to buy a PRO over a slim PS4, with a 100$ premium, just because it has 4K and HDR, namely higher resolution and richer color/contrast range.
Ffs, if they cared about that shit, they'd be enthusiasts interested in picture quality, and if they were, they'd probably be interested in watching movies not compressed to hell and back by streaming.

Most people don't buy media before they even have a player. A lot of people were expecting the Pro to have a UHD. It's not rocket surgery.

Yup.
And most of us also don't want to end up with 40 different boxes under our TVs.
Especially when this could've easily been avoided.
 

RedAssedApe

Banned
Aug 15, 2007
31,369
0
1,375
/thread

They have screwed up the PS4 since launch. Great system, powerful but with only a smattering of exclusives then shitting the bed on the Pro it's like Ken K. is back. I just want Bloodborne at 60fps and that's not even on the enhanced list. The UHD BD omission is glaring. I am holding off on the xbone S for scorpio as I am 70/30 PC to Console as far as time spent on those platforms. I was looking forward to selling my launch PS4 and grabbing the neo but it's just..bad. I'd rather get a 1070 for the same price

Righttt...Screwed it up so bad that PlayStation literally brought Sony back from the brink.

You said it yourself. You are a 70/30 pc gamer. By the time Scorpio is out it'll probably "look bad" next to a high end pc gpu too.
 

SDMG

Member
Dec 8, 2015
162
14
335
Isn't the lack of a UHD Blu Ray player in the PS4Pro due to the fact that the SoCs chip that Sony is going to use won't be ready till next year???
 

Bleeether

Member
Dec 19, 2012
809
0
470
I think it's a shame it doesn't include one. The pro would be an insta buy for me considering I just purchased a 65 inch Samsung ks8000 and looking to get into uhd blue ray :(
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
19,533
13,901
2,110
Righttt...Screwed it up so bad that PlayStation literally brought Sony back from the brink.

You said it yourself. You are a 70/30 pc gamer. By the time Scorpio is out it'll probably "look bad" next to a high end pc gpu too.

It looks bad today next to PC GPU's if you only play the FLOPS game.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
19,533
13,901
2,110
Wow, I had no idea. That sucks for people who want the best of the best. That's also kinda misleading marketing from Netflix' part then. I'll give it a try for Narcos 2 though eventually.

Data compression is not magic... think modern Netflix 1080p MP4 streams at about 10 Mbits/s vs Blu-Ray's 35-40+ Mbits/s MP4 streams... and sometimes more than that. The situation is clear.
 

Wollan

Member
Feb 10, 2005
27,194
1
0
Edinburgh, Scotland
twitter.com
Found this post from OT pretty enlightening. DVD's outselling BD's 6.5 to 1 in the UK. Both falling (as of 2014). In terms of business it seems UHD BD's will have no other future but very niche. Ecspecially so post no-PlayStation support which may end up stalling it (historically a big format driver):
I'm quite an avid collector of blu rays and films in general, i must about 200- 300 dvd/blu ray. But as with music and games, i'm starting to question more and more why i have all thesee physical objects. I kind of fluctuate between the advantages of both.

But to be honest i can see why sony have decided to drop the UHD player from their machine.

I posted this in the PS4pro has no UHD drive thread on the GG section:

I just been looking at the stats of blu ray sales in the UK. There is only sales data till up to 2014, but i was honestly surprised how low the sales were, i kind of had it in my head sales were equal.

From the AVForums

Number of discs sold in the UK, by format and year

DVD
1998 0.2m
1999 4.0m
2000 16.6m
2001 41.3m
2002 89.9m
2003 145.0m
2004 196.5m
2005 211.2m
2006 227.0m
2007 248.1m
2008 252.9m
2009 234.6m
2010 210.1m
2011 191.8m
2012 162.0m
2013 143.4m
2014 124.9m

Blu-ray
2007 0.8m
2008 3.7m
2009 8.4m
2010 13.0m
2011 15.3m
2012 16.7m
2013 18.8m
2014 17.3m


I was quite shocked to see that DVDs were still outselling Blu Rays almost 6.5/1.

The combined sales of blu rays and dvds dropped significantly the next year too according to a chart i can't seem to post unfortunately. It dropped to 119 m Combined sales.

So this is just not a physical vs digital issue, it seems in general, people don't care about quality or premium experiences. A shame really. But that how it is.

I think UHD and Blu rays will have a space to exist though, the enthusiast market is pretty strong still and i think that will keep physical media alive for a while. There is a good article on flavour wire about it.
 

Brad Grenz

Member
Sep 28, 2009
4,200
1
0
Salem, OR
www.gamerblahhhg.com
That extra 15 dollars would cripple me financially

There are costs above just the difference in the price for the drive. There' licensing costs for every playback device and the costs associated with developing and maintaining the UHD-Bluray playback software for the life of the system. Combined the reasonable estimate for the additional price to consumers would be more like $50.

And Sony is one of the only providers of 4K disc content. They have all the sales data they need to make an informed decision. If they can see UHD Bluray sales are really bad it's perfectly sensible to not shackle every PS4 Pro to the cost of their support.
 

sweetvar26

Member
Dec 5, 2008
9,239
0
1,050
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
It is not early in any way... 2017 release for a mid-gen console is suicidal.

Scorpio will launch already dead.

Which is why he said Sony should have beefed up the specs, probably to match Scorpio.

Had the PS4 Pro and Scorpio had similar specs, I think Sony would have a much better shot at marketing and sales as well.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Sep 5, 2007
12,059
13,860
1,820
UK
/thread

They have screwed up the PS4 since launch. Great system, powerful but with only a smattering of exclusives then shitting the bed on the Pro it's like Ken K. is back. I just want Bloodborne at 60fps and that's not even on the enhanced list. The UHD BD omission is glaring. I am holding off on the xbone S for scorpio as I am 70/30 PC to Console as far as time spent on those platforms. I was looking forward to selling my launch PS4 and grabbing the neo but it's just..bad. I'd rather get a 1070 for the same price
If Ken K was back it would have 4k Blu-ray , hell the original PS4 would have had 4k Bluray and would but stupidly powerful hybrid that would be hard to develop for.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Feb 10, 2011
13,652
416
1,010
Well I hope it wasn't.



Just bought the 299 XBO S off amazon.



I already have a DOE XBO, and I am getting the Scorpio next year. I have a PC, and a PS4, and have the PS4 Pro preordered.

I didn't need a XBO S at all, that is until it was revealed the Pro wouldn't have a UHD BR Player. This forced my hand, and 300 extra dollars out of my wallet.