Support NeoGAF

[New002]

Maybe they were feeling generous and wanted to toss the One S some sales? D:

But really, I'd love to know all of what went into making this decision, but I can't imagine we'll ever know the full picture and will just have to settle for the "we wanted to focus on the games" paraphrase. Hopefully I'm wrong though!

 

[Iced Arcade]

I don't think Sony was expecting the Xbox one s and scorpion and when they did, it was already to late to add or alter the PS4 Pro.


Just like Microsoft finding out the PS4 was 8gbs of gddr5 instead of 4gbs at E3.

 

[autoduelist]

While I'm not in the market for a PS4 Pro or a UHD player or a 4K tv... I can say I'm among those who rarely use physical media. I hate having to switch discs, and if I do end up with a physical game I hate taking it out to play a movie. Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Hulu are my go tos [we cut cable last year]. So while I have no idea if it's a good strategic decision overall or not, I do know it'll never affect me, even if I was buying one. the few times I rent physical are from either the library or redbox, and I doubt i'd ever get 4k discs from them anytime soon.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

You honestly believe you'll see Scorpio launch without 4K Blu-Ray support?

He said Xbox one s...

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Did they ever call it a premium device?

PS4 Pro

 

[MUnited83]

Depends if it would have effected the price. $399 for what you currently get is great. Available this November and puts squeeze on competition. Long before their launches. If UHD would mean $449-499 then they did the right choice.
Personally I would have no problem paying extra though for UHD but I'm likely a minority.

It wouldn't mean $449 or $499 though. Considering the manufacturing numbers Sony usually do, it wouldn't cost them more than a extra couple bucks per unit. They could've still sold the damn thing at 399$ and still make a profit.

 

[Fdkn]

What is this?? This is an insane train of thought. A huge majority still buy physical movies.

You can argue all you want about how physical movies are still a relevant market and that's true.

but they're not a majority.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

The 1TB Xbox One S has a UHD drive
The 1TB PS4 Pro doesnt.

399$ Who wins?

PS4 has a better GPU.

I win.

 

[outunderthestars]

Well the Pro moniker still sort of implies that.

It's called "Pro" for crying out loud.

isn't that what Pro signifies?

It's $50 more than what a PS4 or 1TB Xbox One S costs right now. Not sure what people are wanting from a $400 console. I'd rather have the money put into GPU rather than a niche feature for film buffs.

 

[teiresias]

He said Xbox one s...

And you brought up spec differences, the Scorpio is higher spec than Pro and I can pretty much guarantee it's going to have 4K Blu-Ray playback.

It's $50 more than what a PS4 or 1TB Xbox One S costs right now. Not sure what people are wanting from a $400 console.

Not what Sony is offering.

 

[family_guy]

I like the fact that Sony is going all out on gaming as someone who doesn't watch movies or TV at all. I would like to think that it was a decision to keep the price down. Something that every press outlet actually focuses on. The pressure to make the thing cheap was obviously strong enough.

Not everything is created equal but here's a quote about the cost of the Xbox One S Bluray drive:

The new console also includes a UHD BD-ROM player, with a bill of materials (BOM) cost of $33.50, versus the previous $18 conventional Blu-Ray drive.

http://press.ihs.com/press-release/...icrosofts-xbox-one-s-brings-significant-value

Doesn't seem like that much money. They could have saved some money by keeping 500GB HDD in and removing the optical port. 1 TB isn't enough after 3 years of game purchases, so I'm already swapping that out anyway.

 

[icespide]

No, just biased

okay so if someone is not outraged over 4k bluray they have a Sony bias?

 

[phant0m]

I would have prefered $399 with UHD player, but the next best thing is $399 without UHD player. If removing UHD player was to keep the price down, then yeah, I'm all for it.

Except MS put one in a box that's $100 cheaper.

 

[Audioboxer]

The other topic is having many arguments beaten to death.

For a quick post by me in here, I think it's unfortunate but to do with pricing and a preference to focus on games. A 1TB Pro at $399 seems pretty cheap next to a $349 1TB One S.

Good thing for this decision though is we'll have sales figures in a mere few months! As for those flying to mention the XB1S. Maybe keep expectations in check as didn't it only win by 7k in the NPDs just there? This month will be interesting to see what it wins by.

 

[LowSignal]

Sony didn't notice someone(MS) buying a boat load of 4k drives? I mean if they are selling the X1S for $299 how much is the 4k drive?

 

[Diprosalic]

Not everything is created equal but here's a quote about the cost of the Xbox One S Bluray drive:


http://press.ihs.com/press-release/...icrosofts-xbox-one-s-brings-significant-value

Doesn't seem like that much money. They could have saved some money by keeping 500GB HDD in and removing the optical port. 1 TB isn't enough after 3 years of game purchases, so I'm already swapping that out anyway.

times that 15 bucks by a couple millions.
that makes a huge difference.

 

[fallingdove]

People worried about 4K and HDR, but not by inherent compression/low bitrate of streaming.
I have yet to understand that one.

This is just incredibly dumb.

Jesus - what is with this narrative?

You are on a goddamn gaming forum. For some people - Maybe gaming is the priority with a gaming system? Maybe playing disc based movies is just a nice to have?

Not hard to understand.

Everyone is also still clearly upset about not being able to play compact discs on the PS4, why did they have to eliminate another dying form of media with UHD bluray?

 

[tiredheadcrab]

The crowd that is most concerned about how their games play at the best resolution and graphics possible, doesnt care that they didnt include a better blue ray player that will make their movies look amazballs and instead will opt for streaming. Because streaming provides the best picture possible compared to a 4k blue ray player.

 

[Skux]

It's a measured decision, the same as removing the optical port on the slim. People just aren't using it enough to justify the extra production costs.

 

[Toki767]

Except MS put one in a box that's $100 cheaper.

That's like saying we could've had a 500GB PS4 Pro for $350 instead.

 

[JP]

Except MS put one in a box that's $100 cheaper.

This has a GPU that is 300% as powerful in terms of TFLOPs though, you just can't have both things at that price.

EDIT:
Xbox One S GPU = 1.4 TFLOPs
PS4 Pro = 4.2 TFLOPS

Although it's never quite that precise in the real world, 4.2 is exactly 3x1.4.

 

[BigEmil]

Yeah strategic to lose buyers!

I'll stick with PS4 Slim this whole gen.


I'll buy PS5 when that's out or whatever it is that's after PS4 Pro

 

[snickothemule]

Gotta keep that planned obsolescence train running.

Except MS put one in a box that's $100 cheaper.

yo.

 

[Jumeira]

The crowd that is most concerned about how their games play at the best resolution and graphics possible, doesnt care that they didnt include a better blue ray player that will make their movies look amazballs and instead will opt for streaming. Because streaming provides the best picture possible compared to a 4k blue ray player.

Means nothing if youve got network issues, which is fairly common. Not sure about 4k streaming matching 4k Bluray quality either.

 

[JustenP88]

Yup. It is crazy. For months there was nonstop speculation of how PS4 Pro will be a media machine and now that it doesn't have UHD blu-ray support, oh most people already stream, most have other players etc.

C'mon... UHD Blu-ray was never one of the things that people have been clamoring for in the many threads since the leaks began. Not saying I wouldn't like it, if all other things were equal (price). Maybe someone will bring a 4K Blu-ray over to my house some day...

I sure as shit am not planning on starting to buy physical movies and TV shows again. Noooo thanks.

Gotta keep that planned obsolescence train running.

Get on the physical media train or risk obsolescence?

 

[Toki767]

Yeah strategic to lose buyers!

I'll stick with PS4 Slim this whole gen.


I'll buy PS5 when that's out or whatever it is that's after PS4 Pro

Good for you? The PS4 Pro isn't for everyone.

And I suspect Sony is going to be making most of their sales and profit from the PS4 Slim.

This has a GPU that is 300% more powerful in terms of TFLOPs though, you just can't have both things at that price.

200% more powerful if you're using percentages.

 

[outunderthestars]

This has a GPU that is 300% more powerful in terms of TFLOPs though, you just can't have both things at that price.

This right here.

 

[Miasma]

I can see why people are annoyed, personally I haven't purchased a Blu-ray in about 3 years so that lack of a UHD drive does not bother me.

 

[Aaron]

If their strategy was to keep me from buying one, they succeeded. I already have an Xbox One, so I was looking for an all inclusive 4k experience, and this isn't it.

 

[JackBauer24]

If the Xbox One Scorpio comes out within a year, I'll upgrade to that. Don't see any point jumping to the PS4 Pro now. Don't plan on getting a VR, so I'm looking at which gives me more options.

 

[border]

Here's the problem with this "strategy":

The people who care about 4K will very much care about being able to watch pristine UltraHD BluRays. Videophiles who invested thousands of dollars in a giant 4K TV set aren't as interested in watching low-bitrate streams from Netflix.

 

[Fdkn]

Yeah strategic to lose buyers!

I'll stick with PS4 Slim this whole gen.


I'll buy PS5 when that's out or whatever it is that's after PS4 Pro

so they didn't lose you as a buyer? the ps4slim could probably have bigger margins and you're still on their ecosystem.

 

[Arklite]

It's $50 more than what a PS4 or 1TB Xbox One S costs right now. Not sure what people are wanting from a $400 console. I'd rather have the money put into GPU rather than a niche feature for film buffs.

People expected a UHD drive and a reasonable price, $400 isn't an unbreakable wall, more features would justify higher. They delivered well in price and absolutely flopped in features. It's bad news for now, even if some of us couldn't care less about movies.

 

[MazeHaze]

The crowd that is most concerned about how their games play at the best resolution and graphics possible, doesnt care that they didnt include a better blue ray player that will make their movies look amazballs and instead will opt for streaming. Because streaming provides the best picture possible compared to a 4k blue ray player.

The crowd that is most concerned about how their games play at the best resolution and graphics possible have PC's though. So those same people who would have liked to upgrade their current ps4's for UHD blu ray playback are all no longer on board.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

If it would cost them $50-$100 extra then how could the XB1S be $299? I don't know the actual cost though to include UHD bluray playback though... does anyone?

Do we even know how much is the BOM cost to manufacture XB1 S?

Are Microsoft taking a huge loss on every XB1 S sold?

If I remember correctly MS never made profit off the original XB1 based on a interview Phil Spencer had we Ryan Mcaffrey in 2015. So my guess is it would be the same on XB1 S

On the other hand Sony this gen have made profit on every PS4 sold after 2014, PSVR also will make profit on every headset sold based on Shu interview with Greg & Colin and PS4 Slim with no Optical and cheaper componets will probably will make profit too.

My guess they wanted to make profit on PS4 Pro too and decided to cut UHD out because physical media is more on a decline every year that passes. Digital is the future.

 

[family_guy]

times that 15 bucks by a couple millions.
that makes a huge difference.

Doesn't really matter if they price the hardware at a profit. They're already increasing their revenue stream significantly by increasing PS+ by $10.

 

[ClearData]

Sony didn't notice someone(MS) buying a boat load of 4k drives? I mean if they are selling the X1S for $299 how much is the 4k drive?

MS bought them from this guy and he keeps his sales quiet.

 

[entremet]

Even Sony is aware that physical media is on its way out.

It was a surprising decision after the XB1S, but UHD is very niche market.

 

[Branduil]

Considering the thread about no UHD playback is the biggest PS4 Pro thread right now I'd say it's a stupid mistake more than anything else.

 

[Toki767]

People expected a UHD drive and a reasonable price, $400 isn't an unbreakable wall, more features would justify higher. They delivered well in price and absolutely flopped in features. It's bad news for now, even if some of us couldn't care less about movies.

To be honest, I think the PS3 and Xbox One have shown that yes, $400 is an unbreakable wall.

 

[dcx4610]

Sony definitely lost sales. A lot of people on blu-ry.com forums were waiting for the Neo as their first UHD player. Niche or not, people like physical media and with 4k movies average around 100GB, it's not easy to download or stream that and with data caps, you could theoretically only watch around 3 movies a month and you are over.

I really want to hear Sony's legit reasoning. They lost a ton of sales and a lot of people will purchase the Xbox One S now since it's the cheapest player on the market.

 

[outunderthestars]

People expected a UHD drive and a reasonable price, $400 isn't an unbreakable wall, more features would justify higher. They delivered well in price and absolutely flopped in features. It's bad news for now, even if some of us couldn't care less about movies.

No way Sony launches another console at $500 after the shit they took last generation. This is a gaming console. Want a UHD player that also has a underpowered gaming features that can barely run games at 1080? Get a One S.

I'd personally rather have a more powerful gaming console. I would be willing to bet that the NPD numbers will show that more people agree with me.

I really want to hear Sony's legit reasoning. They lost a ton of sales and a lot of people will purchase the Xbox One S now since it's the cheapest player on the market.

Sony will still end up winning the holiday NPD's. Mainstream gaming audiences simply don't give a shit about UHD movies.

 

[Dunlop]

I sure as shit am not planning on starting to buy physical movies and TV shows again. Noooo thanks.

Which is great if you have an ISP infrastructure that can support this, many do not. North America in particular is horrible with many ISP not having a unlimited option

To stream in 4K Ultra HD with HDR, Netflix recommends you have a consistent minimum download speed of at least 25 megabits per second. That multiplies out to roughly 11.25 gigabytes per hour. With the average Netflix user now streaming two hours of video per day, according to one third-party estimate, HDR TV owners would consume 675GB of bandwidth to watch just one Netflix stream.

http://www.techhive.com/article/306...t-data-caps-will-stifle-video-innovation.html

 

[Audioboxer]

To be honest, I think the PS3 and Xbox One have shown that yes, $400 is an unbreakable wall.

I already had a debate in the other topic with someone wanting Kutaragi back and PS3 like pricing all in the name of UHD/more power.

So yeah, there's some insane opinions over pricing going around. I assume it's trolling as if it's not I have no idea what these people took away from the PS3 and MS' launching of the XB1.

Not to mention this isn't classed as the PS5 so Sony know they are asking for people to shell out new gen likes prices for a supposed iteration.

 

[Fisty]

MS went with TV-in, Sony made their own TV streaming service. That alone should give you a fair assessment of where both companies are trying to attack from. You can also tell which one has a bit more foresight as far as multimedia features go

 

[ClearData]

Do we even know how much is the BOM cost to manufacture XB1 S?

Are Microsoft taking a huge loss on every XB1 S sold?

If I remember correctly MS never made profit off the original XB1 based on a interview Phil Spencer had we Ryan Mcaffrey in 2015. So my guess is it would be the same on XB1 S

On the other hand Sony this gen have made profit on every PS4 sold after 2014, PSVR also will make profit on every headset sold based on Shu interview with Greg & Colin and PS4 Slim with no Optical and cheaper componets will probably will make profit too.

My guess they wanted to make profit on PS4 Pro too and decided to cut UHD out because physical media is more on a decline every year that passes. Digital is the future.

Family Guy checked out the cost of the drive.

Not everything is created equal but here's a quote about the cost of the Xbox One S Bluray drive:


http://press.ihs.com/press-release/...icrosofts-xbox-one-s-brings-significant-value

Doesn't seem like that much money. They could have saved some money by keeping 500GB HDD in and removing the optical port. 1 TB isn't enough after 3 years of game purchases, so I'm already swapping that out anyway.

 

[Detective]

OMG

 

[Branduil]

Here's the problem with this "strategy":

The people who care about 4K will very much care about being able to watch pristine UltraHD BluRays. Videophiles who invested thousands of dollars in a giant 4K TV set aren't as interested in watching low-bitrate streams from Netflix.

This.

Even Sony is aware that physical media is on its way out.

It was a surprising decision after the XB1S, but UHD is very niche market.

UHD is a niche market, yes. But so is the market for this console, and the niches pretty clearly overlap.

 

[rtcn63]

Their accountants probably told them that the small percentage of potential PS4 owners who want 4K playback (and are willing to pay for it) won't be enough to compensate for the added costs of UHD + the lost revenue from releasing it at a higher selling price.

 

[Arklite]

I'd personally rather have a more powerful gaming console. I would be willing to bet that the NPD numbers will show that more people agree with me.

I'm less sure about the Pro, but the base PS4 should still do well. For an enthusiast forum the Pro isn't so great for 4K, and for current PS4 owners we have to really depend on independent developers to put in the extra features and make the Pro shine. Nothing guaranteed there.