• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

PS4 to PS5 transition will take 3 years, more cross-gen games coming - SIE VP Hideaki Nishino confirms.

Bittermich

Banned
Sep 4, 2020
516
1,674
340
So let's see the change in narratives now:

Old narrative: PS MUST produce AAA 1st party exclusives as next-gen only.
Result: Not happening for at least 3yrs.
New narrative: If they have decent enough graphics differences from PS4 to PS5 like Spiderman MM, then we are OK with that. ALthough we fail to see these same differences in multiplat games from console to high end PC graphics features..

Old narrative: PS will have native 4k/60FPS games.
Result: PS5 will have "dynamic res" 4k/60FPS and native 4k/30FPS
New narrative: We can deal with that as long as the game continues to look like past gen PS4 exclusives.

Old narrative: PS will have full RT features in games.
Result: Only RT reflections are available right now.
New narrative: RT is too expensive anyway. We'll be happy with the RT reflection games though.

Face it, you guys will accept anything Sony withdraws from the old narrative.

Truthfact. Very good observation skills you have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kazekage1981

longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
Jun 7, 2004
8,706
6,351
1,890
So let's see the change in narratives now:

Old narrative: PS MUST produce AAA 1st party exclusives as next-gen only.
Result: Not happening for at least 3yrs.
New narrative: If they have decent enough graphics differences from PS4 to PS5 like Spiderman MM, then we are OK with that. ALthough we fail to see these same differences in multiplat games from console to high end PC graphics features..

Old narrative: PS will have native 4k/60FPS games.
Result: PS5 will have "dynamic res" 4k/60FPS and native 4k/30FPS
New narrative: We can deal with that as long as the game continues to look like past gen PS4 exclusives.

Old narrative: PS will have full RT features in games.
Result: Only RT reflections are available right now.
New narrative: RT is too expensive anyway. We'll be happy with the RT reflection games though.

Face it, you guys will accept anything Sony withdraws from the old narrative.

A part of the blame is on Sony. Sony half hearted attempt to disclose details about PS5, led to their fanbase rabid speculations. Fanbase being fanbase, always speculate on the bright sunny side.

We can see the difference between how Sony and MS each approached this next gen, from hardware to software to communications. :messenger_winking: :messenger_ok:
 
Last edited:

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
895
1,074
415
lol do people really believe this?

how many of those 20m PS5 user will have their PS4 around. Lets just agree that majority of people who would be buying AAA games in a year or two would have transition to new generation. More so this time since its backward compatible

That makes absolutely zero sense on any level. There has never been a console that managed to sell > 50% of it's predecessors install base in the first year (which is what would be needed to hit your "majority .. would have transitioned to next generation" criteria) - and the presence of backwards compatibility means that a game that's capable of running on the PS4 will also run on the PS5 - so you have to add both install bases together to get the size of the potential market for PS4 compatible software.

So if we assume my 20 million first year sales we get:

Machines capable of running PS5 software: 20M
Machines capable of running PS4 software: 130M

It we assume your crack-smoking "more than half the install base" theory and go for 60M units then we get:

Machines capable of running PS5 software: 60M
Machines capable of running PS4 software: 170M
 

The_Mike

Member
Nov 5, 2017
5,029
8,076
650
Denmark
Sony is launching with a major PS5 exclusive with others coming in a couple months.
It's totally different the Microsoft that couldn't even have their big cross gen game ready and would need to have raytracing patched in.

It's funny seeing people desperate to pretend they are anywhere near the same level.
This "outrage" will disappear in a couple months when The exclusives that we already know about are being talked about nonstop making the people who are trying to act up hear look even dumber when they ignore reality.



I'm almost certain I've seen a similar post before and that exclusives are the only argument.

Chill man. I was making a joke about a piece of hardware, not your mom. I ain't gonna get any of these machines but I really enjoy watching the fights.

But, just to answer your post.

Remember, while we all know ps5 will dominate and crush Xbox, keep in mind that some people are actually still picking a xbox over a PC. Hell, there's even players who only plays on pc and don't care about any of the console (like this guy).

PS5 exclusives are popular, yes. While many actually enjoy them, they are also used as a fanboy argument.

We've also seen that it could technically possible that if Naughty Dog or Insomniac made exclusives games to any other platform than PlayStation, then the very same people would say these games were shit.

Dont belive me? Take a look in the threads about Microsoft buying Bethesda. Bethesda games, despite being very buggy, we're always popular games, and suddenly they became a trash developer because Microsoft acquired them.
 

chasimus

Member
Aug 3, 2020
58
44
190
Can't blame em. With this stupid virus screwing up the world, this has to put at least a little delay on Sony's long term plans. I hope it doesn't take three years after release of the PS5, but as long as it puts out mostly new-gen games then I can't really complain. I guess we'll see what happens over the next few years!
 

sinnergy

Member
Jun 16, 2007
5,032
2,740
1,435
But it is all about generations? New generations, that’s what Sony promised the past 3 years?
 

Rikkori

Member
May 9, 2020
2,438
4,523
425
This doesn't even make sense to me looking at some of the RT options you get for $400 on console. I guess if you're spending more, then yeah you should get way more, but... you're not really unless you're at 3080 levels from what I've seen. And even then it's a let down in terms of price to performance.
Huh? These consoles are 2060 Super / 2070 Super equivalent, which are all gonna be replaced soon by newer cheaper parts for the same or better performance. So that XSX performance? It's gonna be a $300 GPU. PS5 even cheaper. Considering how you can save more money on PC on games and not having to be subbed just to use online, I'd say that's a major win value wise. Never mind all the other things a PC can do besides just game (including letting it run during down-time and earn crypto!). And remember, what you're seeing in games on consoles are ray-tracing quality below the LOWEST available on PC. You can't actually run RT on PC that low, eg in Legion!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ShirAhava

GAMETA

Banned
Jun 3, 2014
2,710
3,770
905
Microsoft: we want to support our previous console while offering a better experience on One X
Neogaf: haha cross gen sucks, Craig sucks and its because of cross gen and not 343i.
Sony: we believe in generations.
Gaf: Yes Sony you just keep on going
Also sony: alright we make cross gen games and you have to buy the game two times.
Gaf:
I mean, at least they are consistent :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

synce

Member
Sep 18, 2012
3,656
162
625
So essentially everyone's just buying a $500 GPU upgrade for a PC sized console that lacks 99% of the functionality of an actual PC and shares 99% of the games. Interesting value proposition on Sony's part.
 

Romulus

Member
Mar 21, 2019
6,324
7,479
555
Huh? These consoles are 2060 Super / 2070 Super equivalent, which are all gonna be replaced soon by newer cheaper parts for the same or better performance. So that XSX performance? It's gonna be a $300 GPU. PS5 even cheaper. Considering how you can save more money on PC on games and not having to be subbed just to use online, I'd say that's a major win value wise. Never mind all the other things a PC can do besides just game (including letting it run during down-time and earn crypto!). And remember, what you're seeing in games on consoles are ray-tracing quality below the LOWEST available on PC. You can't actually run RT on PC that low, eg in Legion!

First off, where are you getting the 2060 super comparison exactly?

"Gonna be a $300 gpu soon" lol, and not even counting the CPU, 4k drive, SSD or anything else.

And not only that your assessment on the specs doesnt sound right. Seems to of course downplay it, along with the price. And not account for how consoles are optimized further to meet higher specs as the generation goes on. You're basing it on launch titles when devs are maxed out with 6 console versions of most every game, and PC and still the 2060 super comparo is difficult to make. But again, you need it to work for your argument. In the future-the lowest end comparable card. Lol

And when did gamepass become so expensive? And all the other things a PC can do? What exactly can a gaming PC do that a laptop/tablet/phone that everyone else already has not do?
 
Last edited:

OrtizTwelve

Member
Aug 11, 2020
713
1,451
515
USA

In a recent interview with AV Watch, Sony Interactive Entertainment Vice President Hideaki Nishino confirms the PS4-to-PS5 transition period should last around 3 years. During that time Sony will release a mix of next-gen exclusives and cross-gen releases

"The current assumption is that the transition from PS4 to PS5 will take about three years. In the meantime, how can I keep buying games on PS4? Can the purchased games be played on PS5? That is important. At a certain time, we ask developers to develop on the premise of "cross generation" of PS4 and PS5. Of course, we also need to improve the library to make it easier."


Not surprising. PS4 has an install base of over 100+ million customers... not all are going to buy a PS5 right now.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Dec 26, 2008
11,978
6,651
1,560
Spain
I looked at last gen and one year later, in 2014, we had infamous.
Two years later, we had bloodborne.

Three years is atrocious.
 

Game Analyst

Member
Feb 10, 2009
5,993
1,924
1,295
soundcloud.com
So, until the year 2023, the PS5 is a PS4 Pro Plus? This would mean that in 2023 PS5 Pro will be released for non-cross-gen games to run PS5 games in 8K and with Full Raytracing.
 

ZywyPL

Member
Nov 27, 2018
5,008
8,494
685
Maybe when Ryan said that "we believe in generatins" he ment himself and his dog, not the Sony company?
 

Miles708

Member
Sep 11, 2019
1,528
1,990
415
I would love for Sony to just go totally all-in for cross generations, and release both Ratchet And Clank and Demon Souls Remake on PS4.

I don't even want them, I just want to enjoy the meltdown on my comfy villain armchair.
 

Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
12,713
7,782
1,365
I'm talking in terms of the PS4 consoles' technical limitations. Devs don't like to deal with PS4's severely limited Jaguar CPU and design their games around the painfully slow laptop drive. I understand you don't want to abandon the huge PS4 install base but it's also a big headache.

They've been doing fine with the "severely limited" status quo for over 7 years, so its not suddenly a problem now!

Also, it needs to be understood that PS4 and Xbox One are basically joined at the hip technologically. If you support one (no pun intended) you may as well support both. So when people talk about pre-existing install-bases they should really consider the two platforms joint total as the size of audience that's being left behind.
 
Jun 15, 2011
3,339
173
845
England

In a recent interview with AV Watch, Sony Interactive Entertainment Vice President Hideaki Nishino confirms the PS4-to-PS5 transition period should last around 3 years. During that time Sony will release a mix of next-gen exclusives and cross-gen releases

"The current assumption is that the transition from PS4 to PS5 will take about three years. In the meantime, how can I keep buying games on PS4? Can the purchased games be played on PS5? That is important. At a certain time, we ask developers to develop on the premise of "cross generation" of PS4 and PS5. Of course, we also need to improve the library to make it easier."

Aka, we believe this might be the last generation of consoles, and we're gonna milk it as long as we can.
 

Kerotan

Banned
Oct 31, 2018
2,196
2,881
465
Gamers are goldfish confirmed.

Every generation Sony does this. Every generation.

The PS1 was on sale for well over 2000 years. Even Jesus had one.
The PS2 was on sale well in to the life of the PS3.
PS3 games were coming out well in to the life of the PS4.
They're still bring out Vita games.

But nahh. Let's get out hot-off-the-press quips of "buh generations" in to boost the reaction score.
Sony really look after their player base. After each gen has begun the old gen gets well looked after for some time. They'd be idiots to abandon 100m+ players.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: Slings and Arrows

ManaByte

Gold Member
Jun 10, 2004
36,058
54,461
2,510
California
manabyte.com
I would love for Sony to just go totally all-in for cross generations, and release both Ratchet And Clank and Demon Souls Remake on PS4.

I don't even want them, I just want to enjoy the meltdown on my comfy villain armchair.

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if they do a Demon's Souls PS4 version in early 2021.
 

YeulEmeralda

Member
Aug 8, 2020
835
788
285
Gamers are goldfish confirmed.

Every generation Sony does this. Every generation.

The PS1 was on sale for well over 2000 years. Even Jesus had one.
The PS2 was on sale well in to the life of the PS3.
PS3 games were coming out well in to the life of the PS4.
They're still bring out Vita games.

But nahh. Let's get out hot-off-the-press quips of "buh generations" in to boost the reaction score.

There is a difference between first party and third party. I don't recall Sony bringing out games for PS3 after the PS4 was released.
 

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
2,832
9,317
695
India
They've been doing fine with the "severely limited" status quo for over 7 years, so its not suddenly a problem now!

Also, it needs to be understood that PS4 and Xbox One are basically joined at the hip technologically. If you support one (no pun intended) you may as well support both. So when people talk about pre-existing install-bases they should really consider the two platforms joint total as the size of audience that's being left behind.
I'm not the one saying that.




 
Last edited:

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Mar 31, 2011
5,709
3,265
1,090
So let's see the change in narratives now:

Old narrative: PS MUST produce AAA 1st party exclusives as next-gen only.
Result: Not happening for at least 3yrs.
New narrative: If they have decent enough graphics differences from PS4 to PS5 like Spiderman MM, then we are OK with that. ALthough we fail to see these same differences in multiplat games from console to high end PC graphics features..

Old narrative: PS will have native 4k/60FPS games.
Result: PS5 will have "dynamic res" 4k/60FPS and native 4k/30FPS
New narrative: We can deal with that as long as the game continues to look like past gen PS4 exclusives.

Old narrative: PS will have full RT features in games.
Result: Only RT reflections are available right now.
New narrative: RT is too expensive anyway. We'll be happy with the RT reflection games though.

Face it, you guys will accept anything Sony withdraws from the old narrative.
OOoooooffffFFF
VFX you dont have to go so hard on them......the fire is already burning.

But yeah whatever these companies do is either the second coming or downplayed when its negative.

When Jim Ryan was all "we believe in generations" SonyGAF celebrated and teased XboxGAF for transitional generations as if MS basically said we wont make any games at all for Series consoles.
Now we know Jim Ryan is a liar and Sony is indeed doing a transitional generation......ohh wait yeah its cool.

The Jaguar CPU in the Xbox One will hold back the Series X
The Jaguar CPU in the PS4 wont however hold back the PS5......why?
Because Sony.

Double downed by Head of SIE
#webelieveinXgen


Sony of America still report to SIE Japan right?
Maybe GAF should have actually waited for SIE to say "webelieveingenerations" before going to town with the notion.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: VFXVeteran

YeulEmeralda

Member
Aug 8, 2020
835
788
285
Not even close. PS4 had one first party AAA game that released after launch. GT7 just a month after launch. PS3 had one. GoW 2. Released four months after launch. Everything else, all the big first and third party exclusives were next gen only.

They do NOT do this every generation. They support the consoles for 10 years by keeping it on the market and letting third parties support it with yearly sports games. But we are talking about first party titles and they have never released AAA exclusives 2-3 years after launch. You cannot be more wrong.

Yes that's what I was thinking too. What we are seeing here is indeed a break in tradition.
 

Karmic Raze

Gold Member
Aug 16, 2018
1,041
1,176
705
It kinda sucks, but let’s be honest here. The installed user base of the PS4 is huge and they aren’t just going to abandon it. I only hope they give us significant upgrades to the cross-gen games for the PS5 versions. That and I hope we see a good bit of PS5 exclusive titles that just don’t go cross-gen at all.
 

reptilex

Banned
Jul 13, 2020
363
332
235
Good, the PS5 is a catastrophe and neither I or anybody around as an interest in getting one, which means the PS4 Pro will allow me to even play PS5 games (the dumbest irrational strategic choice, one in a succession of many)
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Member
Dec 8, 2019
1,789
3,201
515
Gee, how thin must your skin be that a little fun gets under it so easily?

Cross-gen has been a thing for a long time. If you wanted to believe in blatant marketing talk, the joke’s on you.

Want the old gen to be ditched faster? Buy the new machine ASAP. It plays the same games but better anyway, and the more it sells, the faster its install base reaches critical mass, the sooner the old machine will be abandoned except for those quick-buck yearly “legacy” games.

I mean, you are getting a PS5 anyway, ain’t ya?
 

Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
12,713
7,782
1,365
I'm not the one saying that.





Pretty much every heavy computational job can be offloaded onto either the GPU or in the case of the new systems the inbuilt hardware blocks for decompression, sound, and i/o. I'd advise you to consider exactly what the cpu is being mainly used for these days!

I thought it was funny when in that long Demon's Souls breakdown John tried to ask what they were using all the grunt of the Ryzen for, and they kinda demurred by saying they just looked for stuff to parallelize on their beefed up job system. As they pointed out in regards to decompression, even with these more powerful cpus at full occupancy, they wouldn't be able to match the performance of these custom hardware blocks.

The bottom line is if you can run RDR2 for instance on Jaguar cpu, it isn't so underpowered its holding anything back. I mean its weird to me that some people seem to laboring under the misapprehension that the new systems are going to transform game design, when most game-types and genres are pretty much codified at this point. Any advancement is going to come in terms of structural and essential visual grammar changes due to massively enhanced i/o capabilities of the new gen. Something that is entirely unrelated to cpu performance!
 
Last edited:

Kazekage1981

Member
Apr 7, 2019
1,247
2,157
410
Within 3 years, PS5Pro will come out. By that time, there should be enough PS5 units sold for developers to let go of PS4and PS4Pro to finally fine tune and optimize their development to:

Zen 2, RDNA 2, Integrated SSD, GDDR6 RAM, etc..
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZywyPL

Pagusas

Elden Member
Jun 9, 2006
12,966
4,788
1,835
Prosper, Tx
Next Gen exclusives will start when the "Pro" grade console mid-gen revision hits. That way they have a reason to sell it to you. At which point the narrative will shift from PS5 playing upscaled PS4 games, to PS5 Pro playing upscaled/higher frame rate ps5 games.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Kazekage1981

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
16,329
76,172
965
35
Salalah, Oman
Some are missing that so far Astro's Playroom, Demon's Souls, Returnal, R&C Rift Apart, and even garbage like Godfall and Destruction Allstars are all next-gen only. Potentially God of War: Ragnarok and Grant Turismo 7 as well.

Agreed. Some great responses we have in this thread. Lets all pretend PS5 exclusive Ratchet and Clank isn't coming out on June 11th.

Trolls gonna troll.
 

TonyK

Member
Aug 13, 2020
836
1,379
400
3 years of transition? I will be tired of PS5 in 3 years. I dislike these 5 to 7 years console generations. It's soooooo sloooow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Animagic