Support NeoGAF

[Vandiger]

Stick with the status quo is for the best despite the multiplayer paywall.

 

[Curufinwe]

Check Aegeis' Twitter. He was like, "OMG SONY LIARS".



https://twitter.com/aegies/status/344503850734084098

The most disreputable person in games journalism strikes again.

 

[Bunta]

Oh so this is what the media is doing today.

Yep. It's just like PS3, do they really think Sony would say this on stage at E3 and lie?

 

[RobbieH]

So Sony has dropped online passes for first-party games (makes sense as multiplayer is behind the PS+ paywall), they're allowing publishers to implement online passes for used games only and the implication is they're not allowing anything else. The message is even more clear than yesterday.

Also, can we finally ban all mentions of Arthur Gies?

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I still think there is much more to this than has been said, from both sides.

 

[Suikoguy]

I didn't know about Polygon's existence until the TLoU review and since then all I have seen is a bad reputation coming out of them, are they like Kotaku or something?

Kotaku has had some legitimate journalism going on since the original MS press conference a few weeks ago. They have gone a long way repairing the reputation.

 

[maabus1999]

Quoting myself from the other thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=62609296&postcount=65



This information comes from a third party publishing source. PS4 is exactly the same as PS3 when it comes to DRM and used games. Publishers (including SCE) can put online content behind a paywall if the game is used. Online passes.

Loophole: How many games have an excuse to be online now to make sure everyone "gets a pass?

Also, until I see EA bring some form of online pass back, I would be suspicious of whatever they plan to do. That goes along with Ubi.

And they even have an excuse due to MSFT "well since we built the game to take advantage of the online X1 capabilities, we decided to bring that benefit to the PS4!"

You know they are going to tap dance this. Best folks can do is I guess not buy.

 

[nampad]

Already heard all those "Sony isn't telling the truth", "remember PS3 Linux?" crap all over the place from the usual suspects on other sites. At least Sony clarified this soon enough.

They even get rid of their own online passes? That's good, I hated them. Should have started with this years PS3 games with that.

 

[Fruitster]

Some pretty desperate stuff from some of the fine members of the gaming press. It almost seems as if certain sites and people involved with them are a wee bit salty about Sony giving the finger to drm.

 

[teiresias]

So is Jason going to come in here and tell us how long Evan's article is going to be allowed to stay on Kotaku without an update concerning what Tretton actually meant? It's sitting there passing on false information.

 

[Rodhull]

Man the way some members of the press were more concerned about saying "called it" rather than whether the story was true or not is pretty sad.

 

[illmatic22]

Gies is such a damn shill.

 

[Minions]

News sites (including kotaku) are saying that publishers can disallow used games... this shit is amazing. Pretty much post whatever the hell you want without fact checking any of it.

 

[Suikoguy]

So is Jason going to come in here and tell us how long Evan's article is going to be allowed to stay on Kotaku without an update concerning what Tretton actually meant? It's sitting there passing on false information.

Yep, they need a correction stat. Whatever goodwill they gained is being lost as it sits there.

 

[Sephiroth503]

#PS4nodrm, Gies gonna Gies

Fixed

 

[Tallshortman]

Loophole: How many games have an excuse to be online now to make sure everyone "gets a pass?

Also, until I see EA bring some form of online pass back, I would be suspicious of whatever they plan to do. That goes along with Ubi.

And they even have an excuse due to MSFT "well since we built the game to take advantage of the online X1 capabilities, we decided to bring that benefit to the PS4!"

You know they are going to tap dance this. Best folks can do is I guess not buy.

On the xbone the magic cloud is owned by MS, so EA would need to invest in their own servers. Anyway, that's an interesting situation but seeing as blizz dropped always online for diablo 3 on consoles it seems likely most publishers won't try that nonsense.

 

[Pug]

Why don't these so called Journalists just grab an interview with EA and the other major publishers and ask them straight. What type if any kind of DRM do you have planned for PS.
EA have got shot of online passes and my guess is they won't be returning and personally I can't see them adding any DRM function at this point.

 

[teiresias]

Yep, they need a correction stat. Whatever goodwill they gained is being lost as it sits there.

I've emailed Evan about it, but Jason frequents NeoGAF so he really needs to get in here and explain himself and why Kotaku is letting this misinformation sit uncorrected.

 

[Touch]

It's going to be interesting to see what third parties take on this platform. If the PlaySation 4 blows up the market due to the lower price, it's not like they can make the easy decision to just not be on that platform. They would lose more money by not being there than the money they gain from these policies surely.

 

[TAJ]

System DOES NOT, publishers MIGHT.

I can read just fine - thank you. How about you?

And then they can fail cert.

 

[scitek]

Is the ps4 going to be all dedicated servers too?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/11/44...ty-publishers-can-dictate-their-own-drm-terms

"Well, I mean, we create the platform, we've certainly stated that our first-party games are not going to be doing that, but we welcome publishers and their business models to our platform," Tretton said. "There's gonna be free-to-play, there's gonna be every potential business model on there, and again, that's up to their relationship with the consumer, what do they think is going to put them in the best fit. We're not going to dictate that, we're gonna give them a platform to publish on.

"The DRM decision is going to have to be answered by the third parties, it's not something we're going to control, or dictate, or mandate, or implement," Tretton added.​

In short:

The PS4 will be exactly like the PS3 as it is now. That means publishers can implement some kind of DRM on their games e.g. online passes.

Unlike Microsoft, however, Sony will not facilitate this by making the PS4 always-online. So there are two immediate questions that spring to mind from this.

1. How could publishers implement an authentication system for PS4 games? Are they limited to online passes? Does EA backtrack?
2. Does the PS4 make it so unrealistic for publishers to pursue DRM that they we may see them pull back from this on the Xbox One? Could Sony’s decision be good news for Xbox fans?

#2 on that list is what I am wondering. I mean for starters, what is to stop publishers from going beyond a simple online pass? What if they can do a whole game pass? And used game functionality, Sony originally said this was up to publishers. Is this still the case?

If Sony is putting some sort of lockdown on SP, offline content DRM.. then even though publishers have the option of enforcing that on Xbone.. would they? It seems like it would alienate one userbase. Everyone loves to mention EA so lets use them. Say BF4 comes out. Ok, on PS4 you can play the game offline, you can loan the game out, you can sell it, you can trade it in. If you buy it used, you can play it. On Xbone, you can't play offline past a 24 hour mark, but this is beyond EA's control. But then you start getting into the areas they do control. Would they ban loaning the game out, since the PS4 version allows it? Would they ban trading it in, since the PS4 allows it? Would they ban buying used, since the PS4 version allows it? I am not too keen on whether or not publishers decide if Xbone games can be privately sold or how that would even work.

So in the face of all of that, could this actually be a good thing for Xbox One? Could this mean that since PS4 games are barred from certain DRM, that publishers will look for parity on Xbox One wherever possible?

And if Sony actually is putting the hammer down on used game and offline DRM, will 3rd party companies react well? What if we see Battlefield 5 as an online only MP shooter, completely forgoing SP content so they could enforce DRM? Among other franchises and genres. It's all very confusing and very interesting.

Personally I have a strong Internet connection and don't mind a daily check-in. It's the issue over used games and controlling my content that has me pondering PS4 over Xbone. But this could potentially mean good things for 3rd party games on the Xbone.

 

[RobbieH]

Why don't these so called Journalists just grab an interview with EA and the other major publishers and ask them straight. What type if any kind of DRM do you have planned for PS.
EA have got shot of online passes and my guess is they won't be returning and personally I can't see them adding any DRM function at this point.

Geoff asked Eric Hirshberg who said historically Activision never really implemented online passes or any kind of DRM and their priority was making games people didn't want to trade in. Ubisoft said the way it works today is absolutely fine, but when everything goes digital the revenue model might have to change.

 

[winstano]

" @J0EL_G: Just spoke w/ SCE UK boss Fergal Gara who confirmed NO CHANGE to what was outlined last night re: used games. Same on PS4 as PS3"

So there we go. No change whatsoever. Games will be loanable, shareable, sellable, what-the-fuck-ever-able, but publishers might throw an online pass in.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

This thread has quotes from key publishers on what their stance on DRM is. Surprisingly it isn't getting much attention

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=62681386#post62681386

 

[gofreak]

#2 on that list is what I am wondering. I mean for starters, what is to stop publishers from going beyond a simple online pass? What if they can do a whole game pass? And used game functionality, Sony originally said this was up to publishers. Is this still the case?

If Sony is putting some sort of lockdown on SP, offline content DRM.. then even though publishers have the option of enforcing that on Xbone.. would they? It seems like it would alienate one userbase. Everyone loves to mention EA so lets use them. Say BF4 comes out. Ok, on PS4 you can play the game offline, you can loan the game out, you can sell it, you can trade it in. If you buy it used, you can play it. On Xbone, you can't play offline past a 24 hour mark, but this is beyond EA's control. But then you start getting into the areas they do control. Would they ban loaning the game out, since the PS4 version allows it? Would they ban trading it in, since the PS4 allows it? Would they ban buying used, since the PS4 version allows it? I am not too keen on whether or not publishers decide if Xbone games can be privately sold or how that would even work.

So in the face of all of that, could this actually be a good thing for Xbox One? Could this mean that since PS4 games are barred from certain DRM, that publishers will look for parity on Xbox One wherever possible?

That'd be nice, but there's a limit on how much pubs can allow on Xbox One within MS's system. The one time gifting, the trade-in via approved retail, the online checks etc. are part and parcel of the system. What pubs have control over there is business terms with retail, and simply whether to enable that controlled trading/gifting etc. or block it completely. From what MS has said, pubs wouldn't be able to give parity with a unrestricted PS4 game.

 

[Megatron]

I think they've seen the backlash but well see online passes from a few companies, maybe just EA to start.

Maybe, but then again there is this:

"We listened to the feedback from players, and decided to do away with Online Pass," EA said in an FAQ. "We hope that eliminating Online Pass will allow more people to play and enjoy EA games for a long time to come."

So EA is going to stop listening to the feedback from players and bring it back?

 

[Evenbillybob]

Check Aegeis' Twitter. He was like, "OMG SONY LIARS".



https://twitter.com/aegies/status/344503850734084098

Some "journalists" really are the biggest instigators and dramaqueens on the internet.
Jesus!

 

[crazygambit]

IMO - 'publishers can use online passes, not general disc drm, same as PS3' - or something like that.




Sure, they can't stop pubs designing online only games, no more than they could on PS3 or even PS2. Although they could maybe police very superficial usage just to try and skirt inclusion of offline content, but I don't know if they will or not. Making a game online only on a system that doesn't require an online connection will limit your potential audience though, so pubs have to trade off against that...

Good point. Hopefully the boxes have a big "Online Required" logo.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

That'd be nice, but there's a limit on how much pubs can allow on Xbox One within MS's system. The one time gifting, the trade-in via approved retail, the online checks etc. are part and parcel of the system. What pubs have control over there is business terms with retail, and simply whether to enable that controlled trading/gifting etc. or block it completely. From what MS has said, pubs wouldn't be able to give parity with a unrestricted PS4 game.

You know what's interesting about this entire affair is that the publishers, at least publicly, are saying they didn't know about the details of this policy until very recently or until just yesterday. So if it wasn't them making these demands off Microsoft, then why would MS do this?

 

[Megatron]

So is Sony going to stop implementing project ten dollar? Now that they are charging for multiplayer, I hope so.

 

[Soi-Fong]

Man, Kotaku is just letting that article sit on their website just to shit on the goodwill Sony gave out yesterday... My god... The bias in these websites...

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I wonder how long we have until we find out that Sony will allow third parties to require "always online" for their games while not requiring it for their own.

 

[Fushichou187]

Can't wait for the swift return of online passes.

I'd like to see how EA frames the course reversal-- if they reinstate their OP model that is-- since they only dropped it a month ago.

 

[gofreak]

I wonder how long we have until we find out that Sony will allow third parties to require "always online" for their games while not requiring it for their own.

They allowed third parties to have online only, always-online games 10 years ago...

 

[BigDug13]

And then they can fail cert.

Oh come on, they'd never do that. Sony isn't bending us over a barrel like MS, that's it. They're still partnered with third parties and will give them the freedom to do what they want. They're just not doing the work for them like MS is.

 

[Audioboxer]

What the fuck is wrong with gaming journalists. You have one job, in your personal views say whatever you want else just do your damn job.

 

[RobbieH]

Some pretty desperate stuff from some of the fine members of the gaming press. It almost seems as if certain sites and people involved with them are a wee bit salty about Sony giving the finger to drm.

So many of them held back initially by saying "it's not finalised and Sony will just do the same because there's no way they'll go against publishers" that any opportunity they get to say "aha! We were right" they'll take, even if they're totally fucking wrong and spread patently false information.

Throughout this entire thing it's been the same people doing things the right way: Jim Sterling, Marcus Beer, everyone on 8-4, Eurogamer, Klepek and up until now Kotaku. Who was on Twitter trying to stop this nonsense from spreading? Jim Sterling and Marcus Beer.

 

[Neuromancer]

Phew, got worried for a sec there. I don't like online passes but I can live with them.

 

[Paches]

I've said it before and I will say it again. This whole conversation has separated the corporation mouthpieces and apologists from the consumer advocates.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Some "journalists" really are the biggest instigators and dramaqueens on the internet.
Jesus!

Well, they got a 750k check from Microsoft.

Gotta pay the debts...

edit: to say that kotaku have already corrected a post about the status of the last guardian, but the post with wrong info about ps4's lack of drm stands...

 

[Replicant]

Fud-spreading MS loyalists like Gies tried to spin this pathetically. I guess it's time to counter them.

 

[Tallshortman]

#2 on that list is what I am wondering. I mean for starters, what is to stop publishers from going beyond a simple online pass? What if they can do a whole game pass? And used game functionality, Sony originally said this was up to publishers. Is this still the case?

If Sony is putting some sort of lockdown on SP, offline content DRM.. then even though publishers have the option of enforcing that on Xbone.. would they? It seems like it would alienate one userbase. Everyone loves to mention EA so lets use them. Say BF4 comes out. Ok, on PS4 you can play the game offline, you can loan the game out, you can sell it, you can trade it in. If you buy it used, you can play it. On Xbone, you can't play offline past a 24 hour mark, but this is beyond EA's control. But then you start getting into the areas they do control. Would they ban loaning the game out, since the PS4 version allows it? Would they ban trading it in, since the PS4 allows it? Would they ban buying used, since the PS4 version allows it? I am not too keen on whether or not publishers decide if Xbone games can be privately sold or how that would even work.

So in the face of all of that, could this actually be a good thing for Xbox One? Could this mean that since PS4 games are barred from certain DRM, that publishers will look for parity on Xbox One wherever possible?

And if Sony actually is putting the hammer down on used game and offline DRM, will 3rd party companies react well? What if we see Battlefield 5 as an online only MP shooter, completely forgoing SP content so they could enforce DRM? Among other franchises and genres. It's all very confusing and very interesting.

Personally I have a strong Internet connection and don't mind a daily check-in. It's the issue over used games and controlling my content that has me pondering PS4 over Xbone. But this could potentially mean good things for 3rd party games on the Xbone.

Did you read the whole thread? Confirmed for online content only just like this gen, so multiplayer pass or downloadable content like Rage did. Only way they could do a whole game pass is if it was a multiplayer only game.

 

[Nokterian]

Blocked, everything about Gies has been blocked.

He is not worth it,said it before he is a douche and a liar. Since i pwned his ass on twitter a few months ago and got blocked since i was right and he was wrong. (Still have the tweets in screenshot form).

 

[Loudninja]

I still think there is much more to this than has been said, from both sides.

I really don't know how they can be anymore clearer.

 

[Y2Kev]

Last night as I got into bed I thought to myself about how Arthur promised how MAD I'd be after the day's events...

...and I wasn't mad at all...

And it felt so good

 

[synce]

The good news is there's no online check-in, but that doesn't mean a publisher can't require it or some other form of online validation. And you know the big ones will.

Oh consoles are becoming more and more like PCs, but you just can't upgrade them or do anything productive on them

 

[Curufinwe]

Did he say that on twitter or on a Polyon show/podcast?

 

[MeBecomingI]

Yeah, there is no reason to be freaking out. The systems policy is the same as the PS3. But, I've seen so many people bitching and crying all aided by the press freaking out and trying pump out articles on the quote without properly researching or verifying the policy with Sony first that there has been some damage done already though. People will fail to see the statement from Sony and will continue to spread misinformation.

Arthur Gies freaking out is hilarious though. He needs to calm down and step away from everything for the time being so he can organize and ease up on his emotions a bit.

 

[Biker19]

Just to add, even if it's not just pertaining to online passes, this pretty much guarantees that Japanese devs will not do any kind of DRM / used game restrictions lest they want to destroy the entire game market in Japan. Used games are arguably as important as new games to Japan's game economy, so any Japanese dev restricting used games would be really alienating their home base.

This. At the very least, 3rd party Japanese publishers aren't dumb enough to risk sales & their reputations over it. I'm not so sure about 3rd party Western publishers &/or PC publishers, though.