angular graphics
Banned
And my point is that you can't make that point from that example.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
PS4 will out-power most PCs for years to come Avalanche Studios
- Thread starter Toxa
- Start date
And my point is that you can't make that point from that example.
The only reason I'm more excited about the higher RAM is because of what it means for developers in terms of art direction, gameplay, and level design. I think it will open up even more possibilities which is always a plus in my book.
With that said, I don't see how that dooms the NextBox. The NextBox will probably have huge improvements just like the PS4 as compared to the PS3. It might not be the exact same, but the very fact that it has increased is better than not at all. It's just that in this case, the more the merrier.
I do appreciate higher resolution assets, AA, and/or higher framerate. Those help determine it's art direction and level design/gameplay. Again, the more the merrier. It's just in my case, I'm going to likely miss out on the PC side, because I'm not willing to spend $600+ just for that. To me, an investment like that requires good games (games that I would be interested in).
EDIT: Also, I guarantee you are no more confused than I am.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
In terms of raw computing power? Absolutely. Zero controversy when it comes to that statement.
However, there are no PCs out there with 8GB of DDR5 RAM in a unified architecture. The PS4 is distinctly different from what's available to consumers on the PC end at this point in time. We'll see how that changes in the coming years, though.
SirButterstick
Banned
Doesn't Sk3tch have a PC with a 3-way SLI Titan setup? I have a hard time believe that a shitty console will beat that, even if he doesn't upgrade through it's 'ten year lifecycle.'
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
/thread
1st Course
Member
How so? No GPU from 2004-2005 had more than 256mb of VRAM and yet a new 2006 next gen game like Lost Planet: Extreme Condition came out and suddenly it had an absolute minimum requirement of 256mb of VRAM. I expect the same to happen next gen with game suddenly requiring at least 2GB VRAM.
Well no shit, but you don't need a 3000 rig to blow out the specs in the ps4 either. a 680 is just fine.
GHG
Member
You're not factoring in the fact that most of us have had a huge bump in resolution in those 9 years that have passed.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I think you're absolutely right.
How many people will be willing to drop 3k on their GPU setup alone?
+
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=517479
People really dont remember the previous cycle that accurately.
Lost Planet was also pretty poorly optimized, LP: Colonies looked just as good and ran much better on the same hardware.
SneakyStephan
Banned
PS4 got outpowered by single gpus 2+ years ago... both memory bandwidth, texel and fill rate wise , and it's not out for another 8 months...
By then the next gen amd gpus are out and a year after that there'll be another gen that'll probably put it in a worse position than ps360 were in 2010
I give it a year until pc ports will be back at 60+fps higher LOD higher resolution with more AA compared to the ps4 versions on a single gpu.
8GB vram is nice but 176GB/sec isn't much to write home about these days, that's midrange bandwidth right now. Hell a stock hd4890 had 125GB/sec 4 years ago.
By then the next gen amd gpus are out and a year after that there'll be another gen that'll probably put it in a worse position than ps360 were in 2010
I give it a year until pc ports will be back at 60+fps higher LOD higher resolution with more AA compared to the ps4 versions on a single gpu.
8GB vram is nice but 176GB/sec isn't much to write home about these days, that's midrange bandwidth right now. Hell a stock hd4890 had 125GB/sec 4 years ago.
It's the Xbox version.
What's the DDR3 bandwidth when the average 660GTX hits its 2Gb ram limit and has to start fetching textures in from main memory?
PC GPUs will be ram starved. Raw grunt won't matter until GPUs have at least 4GB as standard. Even then you'll be back to 1080p target resolutions. Higher res/more AA and you'll be wining you had a Titan with 6GB or even more
Literally the only thing PS4 has that a high-end PC doesn't is the VRAM amount. Bandwidth? Nope. GPU? Nope. CPU? Hell no.
That said, focusing on a single spec and having access to more of the hardware during development is a plus for consoles. But you can't create power magically where there isn't any. An AMD HD7850 in a console will perform, at best, like an AMD HD7850 at full power. My wording may be a bit off in that last sentence....
That said, focusing on a single spec and having access to more of the hardware during development is a plus for consoles. But you can't create power magically where there isn't any. An AMD HD7850 in a console will perform, at best, like an AMD HD7850 at full power. My wording may be a bit off in that last sentence....
dragonflys545
Member
Titan's should have nothing to worry about.
Ain't nobody got money for that.
Where the fuck is he getting "most PCs" from? You mean the shit that comes boxed up, pre-made at BestBuy? Yeah. Hell yeah it's going to beat out those PCs and that's a huge majority of the market. For those of us who buy our own parts and put our PCs together specifically for gaming... get the fuck out of here.
Seriously? What the fuck is he going to play on that rig. Crysis 3?
What a complete waste of money.
What was the biggest thing holding PCs back this gen? Developers leading on console and reusing console assets.
high end PC GPUs risk being hit with poly counts and GPGPU work that they can handle fine, but ram usage they can't match.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Not if sony want to be on feature parity with with it. I sincerely doubt microsofts console OS team has suddenly gone full retard and learned how to not code a console backend efficiently.
And targeting the lowest common denominator is the developer maxim these days.
As i said, welcome to our hell.
angular graphics
Banned
You said: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=49656117&postcount=269
And then proceeded to post a benchmark running with settings the console versions didn't even have. Not the best example to prove your point.
Piracy rate.
Except that this won't be the case forever, PC GPUs will catch up fairly quickly I reckon, we are still comparing a next-gen machine of 2013 to 2012 PC parts....
At 4GB of RAM Sony were heavily rumored to be reserving 512MB for OS functions. At 8GB it's reasonable to expect that they would be reserving 1-1.5GB for OS functions, especially since the push for 8GB apparently came from game developers.
This topic doesnt include processors which were the strongest points of current-gen consoles. 6 threads in Xenon and 8 cores in CELL made huge difference.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
That wasn't the case.
I think the biggest hit would be textures. Most other things, not really since the PS4 is only using a 7850 variant, and more RAM is not more horsepower. How intensive is texture streaming in terms of bandwidth?
How long do you think? I'd expect 2014 midrange GPUs to have 4Gb as standard, and that might be enough for parity with console (assuming consoles have 6-7Gb free and some of that will be for streaming/caching from disc. But I think you'd want GPus with 8Gb to start using higher res or more AA. That'll be high end/expensive for a couple of years at least I think?
dragonelite
Member
Will 2.5D and 3D stacking be available for consumers to put into their pc.
If so then the ps4 bandwidth advantage will be lost soon too.
If so then the ps4 bandwidth advantage will be lost soon too.
Yup, but there's nothing any console manufacturer can do about this.
Gloating that your PC is more powerful than a console, is like gloating that you can beat up a 4th Grader.
googleplex
Member
Awesome for Sk3tch, but his set up means exactly jack shit for the VAST majority of PC gamers and for PC game development. This is what kills me when PC gamers hit console gamers over the head with the insain setups.
Some one some where built a 5000 dollar rig..... So what?
What? Yes it was.
Except there are a lot of GPU set ups that are already well above 2x more powerful than the PS4.
And that doesn't include the CPU imbalance which is near exponential.
Most of this thread has just been educating the masses on what is a RAM, what is actually available on the market, how cheap these parts actually are, etc. Actually most of these threads devolve into this, I wish people would do some research, I sound like a broken record every page. Convince/educate some people, then new people come into the thread, repeat.
angular graphics
Banned
+1, agreed.
Lord Carmack has spoken.
The 360 and PS3 are very CPU-centric, actually.
Devs were complaining about how bad the 360 and PS3 CPUs were on day 1, I have no idea why you're just looking at the # of cores/threads and making that kind of judgement. The PS3's SPEs aren't even cores in the traditional sense either. The 360's best component was it's GPU which had unified shaders.
I'm talking about the PPU portion of Cell, which is poor when it comes to general purpose operations.
I went as far back as July 2011 and still didnt see the tweet. Pretty sure he never tweeted that.
Thats true to a certain extent but I thought we were all arguing about the GPU ..
Oh my God. I need a new keyboard now.
archnemesis
Member
A fast Google search will result in this link: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176
