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PS5’s SSD is a Technical Gem, Fast Loading Broke Martha is Dead Levels During Development

Lysandros

Member
So you think there's no mathematical ground for Cerny's words? I'm pretty sure the calculations come from Zero Dawn and how they did the stream from an 5400RPM HDD to APU.

This isn't the same technique described in Road to PS5. This is essentially standard fustrum culling, much of the world outside of FOV is still in memory.
 

Dr Bass

Member
This isn't the same technique described in Road to PS5. This is essentially standard fustrum culling, much of the world outside of FOV is still in memory.
There isn’t any use trying to explain it anymore. I can’t tell if it’s willful ignorance or straight denial at this point. We have games on the market that use the built in hardware decompression that only exists on PS5. We have clear technical explanations of how it works and what the benefits are.

And yet ”that group” continues to fall back on mockery and derision to try and deny reality. It’s borderline pathological and for the life of me I cannot fathom being so dedicated to a plastic box that I ignore real cool stuff in a different plastic box.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Im talking about cerny saying thanks to the superfast ssd you could turn around and 4gb of assets would stream directly from the SSD.
We dont know what the benifit of 4gb vs 2gb is yet in this scenario. A tech demo comparing these two would of been useful.

You are kind of derailing the thread with this… start by dividing the speed by the framerate and then think about latency of getting data, compression speed vs ratio, and think about making it transparent to developers (how to map large files and chunks of large files so that it can be streamed and uncompressed small region by small region transparently to devs) and then you see that speed is one of the many factors they spent transistors and R&D time on: custom SSD controller with DRAM cache and additional priority levels compared to NVME specs, custom I/O unit with custom do processors, dedicated DMA, dedicated low latency local memory pool, dedicated HW decompressor…

You keep focusing on a single element as if you had a gotcha, as if it was about how many GB you are able to transfer per second in a scene and how fast you can make smaller data transfer happen (how many ms to transfer X blocks of Y MB is a good question, how many parallel transfers, how can you suddenly get some small data chunk you have an immediate need of).

Then again people discussed it to death and you know it.

Cerny’s designs seem to have dual purposes: 1.) make it a lot easier to make games that take good use of the HW and 2.) if you invest your good time there are custom puzzles for you to solve to go even further. I think it is where the balance is with both the I/O stack and the custom Geometry Engine.

So, for some games, especially cross generation ones, the point is not how impossibly majestic they look, but how easy are they to make on PS5. Without wondering if you lost the tools or not.
 
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Talk is cheap.

The PS5 SSD is nice and performs well but we still have not seen it show any worthwhile advantages over a slower NVMe system.

But of course we are early in the gen, but based on the GPU caperbilities of the systems I dont thinks its going to be anything major and SSD wont help lighting, particle, fluid simulations and other GPU +CPU intensive visual components.

You're arguing against yourself. Nobody said the SSD/IO Complex would replace either the GPU or the CPU, especially not the developer here...😐
 

Banjo64

Member
It is amazing tech. My Series S loads extremely quickly, but the PS5 is notably quicker. Even just an additional 2 or 3 seconds is huge if the Xbox loads something in 10 seconds. MM lack of loading in game is extremely noticeable.

I hope for PS6 they do partition some SSD for quick resume though.
 

3liteDragon

Member
You are kind of derailing the thread with this… start by dividing the speed by the framerate and then think about latency of getting data, compression speed, and think about making it transparent to developers (how to map large files and chunks of large files so that it can be streamed and uncompressed small region by small region transparently to devs) and then you see that speed is one of the Many factors they spent transistors and R&D time on: custom SSD controller with DRAM cache and additional priority levels compared to NVME specs, custom I/O unit with custom do processors, dedicated DMA, dedicated low latency local memory pool, dedicated HW decompressor…

You keep focusing on a single element as if you had s gotcha, as if it was about how many GB can you transfer per second in a scene and how fast you can make smaller data transfer happen (how many ms to transfer X blocks of Y MB is a good question, how many parallel transfers, how can you suddenly get some small data chunk you have an immediate need of).

Then again people discussed it to death and you know it.

Cerny’s designs seem to have dual purposes: 1.) make it a lot easier to make games that take good use of the HW and 2.) if you invest your good time there are custom puzzles for you to solve to go even further. I think it is where the balance is with both the I/O stack and the custom Geometry Engine.

So, for some games, especially cross generation ones, the point is not how impossibly majestic they look, but how easy are they to make on PS5. Without wondering if you lost the tools or not.
Someone with some common sense in this thread at least.
 

Amiga

Member
I thought the "NEXT TO NO LOAD TIMEZ," shit was just promo fluff, but having spent a couple of months with my PS5, I can really say the snappiness of the console is a literal game changer.

Made me complete Hades. thought "that's it" after frustrating runs then turn of the PS5. Later the turn on the TV (synced to turn on the console on powerup)to find the game ready so I just say "OK, just one more time".
 
I'll never get over the hilarity of people mocking or questioning Sony's design choices for the PS5, yet don't stop to question how a "9 Tflops RDNA 1.5" console is performing on par with, or sometimes beating, a 12 Tflops RDNA 2 monster eater. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Question it all you want, but I'll continue to enjoy my fraction of a second quick traveling. And games that either load faster than the Series X, or ones that load about the same, but use compression to make them smaller in size. Of course, we're only a year in. Can't wait to see what Sony's 1st party studios do once they get their head around all of the things they can do when solely focusing on the PS5.
 
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Azurro

Member
I thought the "NEXT TO NO LOAD TIMEZ," shit was just promo fluff, but having spent a couple of months with my PS5, I can really say the snappiness of the console is a literal game changer. I was never one to mind loading times unless they were *absurd*, but playing FFXII right now, a title that I have a good bit of experience with starting with it's PS2 release, and hitting a zone line only to be essentially immediately met with the next zone is fucking legit.

True, I got AC Valhalla when it was heavily discounted and they didn't optimise the loading times, they are unbearable.
 

tommib

Member
The loading is spectacularly fast at times. I really wish they'd let you jump right into games from the dashboard though, because 10 or 20 seconds of splash screens etc kind of defeats the object.
You can. Go into a PS5 game hub and select where you were with the cards. Most games take you directly to the level bypassing all logos and menus.
 

Hunnybun

Member
You can. Go into a PS5 game hub and select where you were with the cards. Most games take you directly to the level bypassing all logos and menus.

I've tried that before but it seems hit and miss. And more than anything I usually just want to go straight to the main menu.
 

oldergamer

Member
Crl+f “road to ps5”
Yep people still believe that marketing video

If u think that a fast ssd is going to give you more than faster loading times in a game


We will still be at the same position we are in now in 5 years time…you only have to see the last 10 years of pc games as a reference
Ive been saying this from the start. People are falling for marketing speak. Fast ssd means quick loading. Of assets but it has its limits. There's an optimum size to files that load. Large files will benefit from the speed more then small files. We can talk io speed all we want but there are other factors that can limit performance.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Ive been saying this from the start. People are falling for marketing speak. Fast ssd means quick loading. Of assets but it has its limits. There's an optimum size to files that load. Large files will benefit from the speed more then small files. We can talk io speed all we want but there are other factors that can limit performance.

Which is why they did not just focus on large file optimised bandwidth :).
 

Loxus

Member
Buddy. Give it a rest. Show us a game on both consoles that shows a large benefit other then load times. Even that seems minimal.
Again, these are the only advantages that were mentioned by Cerny.


Which not only benefits the gamer, but also the developer when creating games.
We are already seeing fast streaming, no load times and fast boot times. Look at Demon's Souls and Ratchet & Clank.

These things are not automatic and needs to be implemented, which is why we're not seeing all games on PS5 with these features.

Not to mention game development start time can be a reason as most games started development before PS5 dev kits came out or some devs don't/ gotten dev kits at a later time.

I'm starting to believe both of you are trolling at this point.
 
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