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PS5 And Next Xbox Won’t Be Discless, Might Use Cartridges – Hellpoint Dev.

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
https://gamingbolt.com/ps5-and-next-xbox-wont-be-discless-might-use-cartridges-hellpoint-dev

Marc-André Jutras, technical director of Cradle Games, the developers on the promising looking upcoming science fiction action RPG Hellpoint, feels like discless consoles are unviable for the next generation for precisely that reason. He feels that discless SKUs might be a thing, but there will also be versions that accept physical media.

“I think they will have a discless version, but I think that for the next generation there will still be a version with discs,” he said while speaking with GamingBolt. “There are a few reasons: not everyone has internet, and if you do have internet, a lot of people don’t have enough bandwidth to download 80GB per game. The current generation of games is huge. Not everyone can afford to download a game and its patches, there are still internet providers who have bandwidth caps. And if we have bandwidth issues here, you can imagine that it might be worse in other countries.

“The second issue I see is that if you go with a version of a console that has no disc, then why would GameStop sell those consoles? The whole market is you sell the games for profit. So you pretty much say, “hey, sell our console that makes you no profit, and sell no games”. So I don’t think you will see discs die this generation. But one thing I would like to see is, because right now I have issues with Blu Rays, they are slow to load. So that’s why in the last generation of consoles, you have games with long loading times, and the games needing to be installed.”

So if not discs, then what? Jurtras feels like cartridges or USB keys would be a far better alternative to discs.

“One thing I would like to see, is some games should be able to be offered on cartridges or USB keys,” he said. “For developers when we end up trying to ship games on a disc, it’s pretty much always the same issue, you have not have your game ready ahead of time by two months, so they can be pressed on disc. I think the issue of having a disc or a USB key or a cartridge is pretty much the same. I could see that printing Blu Rays takes time, just to do it properly. Flashing a USB key with an existing image on the other hand is much faster.

When the question of the cost of cartridges was brought up, he said that while there were well publicized issues with higher capacity cartridges being expensive on the Switch, time and technology should have resolved the issue by next generation.

“The Switch came out almost two years ago,” he said. “Time flies so fast! But if you look at it, it’s insane how storage capacity has exploded in the last two years.”
 
"Guys, our game is coming out in a few weeks. How can we draw attention to ourselves and make gamers know we exist?"

"What if we were to say something inflammatory about the next gen consoles?"

"What like?"

"Well, we could say that Sony and MS will use cartridges instead of discs?"

"That's ridiculous! A 64GB SD card costs way more to manufacture than a Blu-Ray. Even BDXL is cheaper. The cost of 4K targeted games on cartridges would be astronomical."

"Exactly, and such a statement will start flame wars in forums and gamers will then wonder who we are, and then see that Hellpoint is coming out. Also, if we always call ourselves 'Hellpoint dev' instead of 'Cradle Games', we'll have all our marketing done for us."

"Genius."
 

TONX

Distinguished Air Superiority
Switch games literally cost more because cartridges are more expensive to make. If they have the option to go to the cheaper and safer route, i'd imagine they'd take it. This sounds like a wish list.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
This is what annoys me about GamingBolt. Piecemeal interviews to make separate click articles, and always the most asinine comments about the new consoles; before and after they are announced and come out... by indie devs with very little economical hardware sense.

My favorite are the interviews of one's saying how "insanely powerful" they are, developing their 8 or 16bit retro projects barley pushing the resources of a Firestick.

But hey, at least it makes for conversation on here I suppose.
 

TLZ

Banned
Man I'd love if we go back to some sort of cartridge form for consoles. If it's feasible of course.
 
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Tarkus98

Member
How much would a 100GB thumb drive or “key” cost? Even with large volume it would have to be way more then Blu-Ray disc.
Just stick with the Sony install solution and have developers code the game to have it load up in the background while playing. Works pretty well on PS4 when done properly, no?
Oh b-chicken, your post is brilliant lol.
 
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Shin

Banned
A piece of plastic such as discs will always be the cheapest option, the laser/optics don't cost much either.
Add improvement to compression and that other thing color... and BD-XL is more than enough so nay.
 
Considering next gen games will likely hit 50-100GB mark the price of cardridge would be in area of comparably sized memory cards.

So it's not gonna happen.
 
This is what annoys me about GamingBolt. Piecemeal interviews to make separate click articles, and always the most asinine comments about the new consoles; before and after they are announced and come out... by indie devs with very little economical hardware sense.

My favorite are the interviews of one's saying how "insanely powerful" they are, developing their 8 or 16bit retro projects barley pushing the resources of a Firestick.

But hey, at least it makes for conversation on here I suppose.
What more do you expect from a System Wars moderator at GameSpot lol? That's who Pramath is, he's Charizard1605 on GameSpot.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
What more do you expect from a System Wars moderator at GameSpot lol? That's who Pramath is, he's Charizard1605 on GameSpot.

Another one is on N4G as well who always posts his links there. So that does not surprise me that it is the site's MO.
 
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Stuart360

Member
They will use BluRay imo. Bigger games will just use 2 or 3 disks, kind of like the 360 last gen with DVD. A lot of people will be downloading games next gen so i expect them to just keep with BluRay for people that want physical games.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
They will use BluRay imo. Bigger games will just use 2 or 3 disks, kind of like the 360 last gen with DVD. A lot of people will be downloading games next gen so i expect them to just keep with BluRay for people that want physical games.

I would think (hope) they would at least jump to BD-XL.
 

Fahdis

Member
Buying physical now is diminishing returns just like digital licenses... both have their pros and cons but digital definitely has more pros.
 

thelastword

Banned
Are all these threads based on one interview or many?....I don't comment on the validity of threads if any or at all, but to me, most of these threads are based on lots of guesswork.....Just look at all these "might, could", such beautiful verbs...Then we have his take on ram count and BC.....I think these were seperate threads too.......He has no concrete information, he's just guessing like the lot of us and some of his guesses are not even revelatory, like BC......or why would a next gen console only have 8-12 GB of Ram, despite his argument for seperate pools.....I mean cartridges would be nice if they're NAND cartridges, I wouldn't mind tbh and that would certainly popularize NAND so it could reach the mass market, lower prices and production...Yet, I was thinking of SSD or Nand Drives for consoles, not discs/cartridges.....Yet, it's an interesting idea at least for the longterm, faster than a disc, but storage capacity is not there yet...So yes, still speculation, but we shall see...It's not a bad idea though.....Hey, that next gen fever....
 

shark sandwich

tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Doesn’t matter if it comes on physical media. You’ll still usually have to download GBs of updates and install the whole thing to the HDD.

The idea of having “a game on a disc/cartridge” died in the PS3/360 era. I kind of wish they’d just kill off physical media altogether.
 

Fahdis

Member
Can you give a list of the pros and cons?

Physical Pros

- Forever Yours
- Give to Friends
- Vanilla on Disc, saving large downloads (Time Saving).
- Sweet Disc Cases with Cover Art

Physical Cons

- Physical Space Required
- Hassle when Moving
- House Burns Downs and so does your Collection
- "Friends" Steal It
- Can Break or Get Stuck in your System

Digital Pros

- Convenient since Digital
- Digital Libraries on the Go
- Never lose them even after Services Go Down
- Streaming now an option besides Downloads

Digital Cons

- Licensing Issues where games get taken off Digital Storefronts
- Large Downloads (not Timesavers)
- Can't access without internet if not already downloaded.

Feel free to put in opinions.
 
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How much would a 100GB thumb drive or “key” cost? Even with large volume it would have to be way more then Blu-Ray disc.
Just stick with the Sony install solution and have developers code the game to have it load up in the background while playing. Works pretty well on PS4 when done properly, no?
Oh b-chicken, your post is brilliant lol.
Costco sells 256GB sandisk pen drives for like 30$ and that likely is without the quad level cells and at a profit.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Physical Pros

- Forever Yours
- Give to Friends
- Vanilla on Disc, saving large downloads (Time Saving).
- Sweet Disc Cases with Cover Art

Physical Cons

- Physical Space Required
- Hassle when Moving
- House Burns Downs and so does your Collection
- "Friends" Steal It
- Can Break or Get Stuck in your System

Digital Pros

- Convenient since Digital
- Digital Libraries on the Go
- Never lose them even after Services Go Down
- Streaming now an option besides Downloads

Digital Cons

- Licensing Issues where games get taken off Digital Storefronts
- Large Downloads (not Timesavers)
- Can't access without internet if not already downloaded.

Feel free to put in opinions.
You left out one major con: Publishers can remove games from your digital library so Never lose them isn't always true.
 
You left out one major con: Publishers can remove games from your digital library so Never lose them isn't always true.
Theres another these companies have even lost all original copies easiest way to ensure future preservation is not just one central entity but multiple indidividuals backing up conten
 
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Oh sure. These assholes can't be bothered to press an extra disc if the game is over 50gb, and they make a separate download.

But for some reason we'd get the more expensive, less dense storage format next gen lol.
 

Solarstrike

Gold Member
Plenty of plastics floating around the world's oceans to recycle and make some sweet, sweet collectable cartridges.
 

SonGoku

Member
Can we fucking ban gamingbolt "hellpoint devs say" threads its a meme at this point
 
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Fahdis

Member
You left out one major con: Publishers can remove games from your digital library so Never lose them isn't always true.

You've legally paid for the license that essentially is the same as buying a physical copy to be used. Trust me, if they take out something you have "bought" then you have a lawsuit on your hands. Plus I covered that on cons for Digital as the first point. If you haven't bought it before it gets taken off the store, tough luck.

P.T. doesn't count because it was free and a Demo.
 

SonGoku

Member
Costco sells 256GB sandisk pen drives for like 30$ and that likely is without the quad level cells and at a profit.
How fast are thos pendrives? are they over 3 MB/s read?
If true then no backwards compability for ps4 ps3 ps2 and psone games :(
I hope its not true
Its not... its clickbait from gamingbolt
and "hellpoint dev" doesnt know dick, they are just throwing shitty speculations
 
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Fbh

Member
Sounds like a guy with no insider information just speculating based on the same info most people on GAF know.

Also, I know buying stuff in the millions make it cheaper but I still don't see how 100Gb+ SD cards will in any way or form be cheaper than discs
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
You've legally paid for the license that essentially is the same as buying a physical copy to be used. Trust me, if they take out something you have "bought" then you have a lawsuit on your hands. Plus I covered that on cons for Digital as the first point. If you haven't bought it before it gets taken off the store, tough luck.

P.T. doesn't count because it was free and a Demo.
Steam had a policy several years ago where if your account had a game that was purchased illegally they could lock your entire account. Purchasing illegally sounds horrible and it usually is, but people who made honest mistakes got severely punished as well.

This happened to several people who bought Modern Warfare steam keys off of ebay and it turns out those keys were acquired illegally with stolen credit cards. Yes, the argument is valid that people need to be more careful, but mistakes do happen.

You sit here and say lawsuit, how many gamers have the kind of dough necessary to take something like that to court? Suing somebody or an entity requires a lot of money and the reward gained has to justify the attorneys fees.

Just an FYI. So yes, all of these entities do have the ability to remove games from your digital library without your consent
 
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Fahdis

Member
You sit here and say lawsuit, how many gamers have the kind of dough necessary to take something like that to court? Suing somebody or an entity requires a lot of money and the reward gained has to justify the attorneys fees.

Just an FYI. So yes, all of these entities do have the ability to remove games from your digital library without your consent

Cumulative suing, like when Sony got fucked for removing "other OS".

And FYI, you're correct. However, they risk losing everyone on their ecosystems if they don't do BC next gen. I'm definitely moving to PC exclusively and borrow a PS5 Pro from a friend to play the exclusives on my account.
 

kraspkibble

Permabanned.
i never thought we'd have totally discless next gen consoles. too many people live in countries where internet is too slow or expensive. having a discless option would be fine with me. i'd go with it for sure since i've not bought a physical game on my PS4 since....shit i don't even know. yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears ago.

as for cartridges...yeah i'm sure Sony will just ditch bluray /s

i'd love cartridges in my PS5 but i doubt it'll happen. why i'd like cartridges:

1. cartridges are cooler than discs

2. take up less space

3. better for the environment with less paper/plastic.

4. higher capacity/faster speeds.
 
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Virex

Banned
Typical Gaming Bolt trash. Gaming Bolt should be a blacklisted site on NeoGAF. Gaming bolt is pure shit
 

Tarkus98

Member
Costco sells 256GB sandisk pen drives for like 30$ and that likely is without the quad level cells and at a profit.
Well damn. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to pop a game into a high speed USB port to play but compared to the $1 or $2 cost per Blu-Ray there’s no way publishers will absorb the extra cost for the drive or key.
I mean maybe in large quantities we are looking at $10 per key?
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
Doesn’t matter if it comes on physical media. You’ll still usually have to download GBs of updates and install the whole thing to the HDD.

The idea of having “a game on a disc/cartridge” died in the PS3/360 era. I kind of wish they’d just kill off physical media altogether.

This.

We're at the point where publishers release incomplete physical media with updates being mandatory to even get the game running.
 
How fast are thos pendrives? are they over 3 MB/s read?

Its not... its clickbait from gamingbolt
and "hellpoint dev" doesnt know dick, they are just throwing shitty speculations
usb3.0 i think iirc
Well damn. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to pop a game into a high speed USB port to play but compared to the $1 or $2 cost per Blu-Ray there’s no way publishers will absorb the extra cost for the drive or key.
I mean maybe in large quantities we are looking at $10 per key?
These are usb3.0 they could set up download stations at gamestop and other stores and reuse your own pendrives which will keep getting cheaper. Just need to work out the drm and the intermediaries cut.
cruzerglide 3.0
  • USB 3.0 enabled (USB 2.0 compatible)

  • Transfer Speeds of Up to 90MB/s

  • Transfer up to 5 times faster than standard USB 2.0 drives

  • 2 Year limited Warranty
 
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Nymphae

Banned
Digital Pros

- Convenient since Digital
- Digital Libraries on the Go
- Never lose them even after Services Go Down
- Streaming now an option besides Downloads

Huh? I've already lost digital games I've paid money for because they were delisted from the store. Forcing me to keep it on a drive at all times is not "never losing them" in my opinion. I mean yeah, I guess I would still have that copy of Scott Pilgram if I hadn't deleted in from my PS3, but that's a big difference to me. The games on my shelf aren't disappearing because I uninstalled them for a while. Also digital games are subject to forced updates that can modify the games, my hard copies can still be played as released. Wasn't there a Tony Hawk re-release that removed all of the music?
 
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Huh? I've already lost digital games I've paid money for because they were delisted from the store. Forcing me to keep it on a drive at all times is not "never losing them" in my opinion. Also digital games are subject to forced updates that can modify the games, my hard copies can still be played as released. Wasn't there a Tony Hawk re-release that removed all of the music?


We need a combination between gog and steam, something drm free but that can somehow either insert advertising or some revenue even from sharing, lending or gifting to the original creators. Something akin to blockchain to give fractional rewards to fanfiction, mods and original creators and that the very popularity and sharing of the content and derivatives enriches all contributors along the way.

Fair use and copyright need to be updated for the new millenium these strikes and content and ideas held hostage need to come to an end, we need the free exchange of information to speed up the rate of art and science production which was the original reasoning behind patents and copyright to incentivize art and science generation the laws right now are an impediment to art and science production rather than foster such they are hindering such and we need to put the interests of humanity above that of the individuals, while allowing the artists to profit not mindless corporate middlemen with onerous contracts extracting from dead artists the lifeblood and essence or inspiration for a new generation of artists.
 

Shifty

Member
"For developers when we end up trying to ship games on a disc, it’s pretty much always the same issue, you have not have your game ready ahead of time by two months, so they can be pressed on disc."

Allow me to translate.

"Our bean-counters have once again failed to take into account the two-month overshoot that sems to happen to every disc-shipping project because there are safety net patching mechanisms in place and abusing them to the fullest possible extent is an industry standard practice at this point."
 

Tarkus98

Member
usb3.0 i think iirc

These are usb3.0 they could set up download stations at gamestop and other stores and reuse your own pendrives which will keep getting cheaper. Just need to work out the drm and the intermediaries cut.
cruzerglide 3.0
I like this idea, a lot actually. Should keep GameStop and others happy, and would actually save publishers money as well so they can get rid of all their micro transactions (yeah, right).
In a fair world customer takes small initial hit on drive but saves money on every game purchase following. Of course this won’t really happen but it has potential if everyone embraced it from the get go.
Oh well, here’s to hoping we at least get double/quad layer Blu-Ray discs/readers.
 

JordanN

Banned
Leaked Playstation 5 devkit. :eek:

46Br4Wn.jpg
 
I like this idea, a lot actually. Should keep GameStop and others happy, and would actually save publishers money as well so they can get rid of all their micro transactions (yeah, right).
In a fair world customer takes small initial hit on drive but saves money on every game purchase following. Of course this won’t really happen but it has potential if everyone embraced it from the get go.
Oh well, here’s to hoping we at least get double/quad layer Blu-Ray discs/readers.


I think Holographic versatile discs should also be supported they are emp resistant.


And the superman memory crystal is rumored could reach 360TB and 2Billion+ year lifespan + emp resistant. Could serve to give us our steam library backup, as well as our playstation, xbox and switch backups + all prior consoles. A few of these discs, and unlock keys for the content you own, and we'd ensure the games will survive the history far into the future for mankind's legacy.

 
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