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[bitbydeath]

Is this what Sweeny was talking about?

"[The PS5] puts a vast amount of flash memory very, very close to the processor," says Sweeney. "So much that it really fundamentally changes the trade-offs that games can make and stream in. And that's absolutely critical to this kind of demo," Sweeney explained.

PS5 SSD Is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO Says - IGN

The PlayStation 5 breakthroughs on SSD and storage are ahead of any PC alternatives.

www.ign.com

 

[iJudged]

no no, keep reading, this thread is useless.

 

[FrankWza]

no no, keep reading, this thread is useless.

I'm learning a lot. You already knew about this? I think it's pretty cool stuff to learn since next gen is going to be heavily focused on SSD

 

[MrFunSocks]

$2 is 100% more expensive than $1. "That's significant."

People like you who rationalize by manipulating perspectives are a joke tbh. Relative and absolute measurements both matter.

Here let me try...

Total PS5 SSD w DRAM = $500
Total PS5 SSD wo DRAM = $475

So, 5.2% more expensive? That's insignificant

$25 is a *massive* difference in BOM for a console. Like legit a bit difference. You're thinking in terms of 1 single console, not in terms of 100 million consoles. An extra $25 per console costs on the PS4 would mean that Sony made $2.5 BILLION less than they had after selling 100 mill consoles. That's big money.

They should be giving us a list of compatible drives soon but I'm annoyed that they haven't yet.

They haven't because it's a very, very, short list.

 

[Maybe It's Medicine?]

I'm still waiting for real world mind-blowing "only on ps5*" ssd performance to manifest itself. Last time I saw it mentioned was people showing off a relatively slow respawn in Astrobot. Nevermind I get literal instant respawns on Ghostrunner most recently, an unreleased game that puts Astrobot to shame on max settings with an hdd.

Sony needs to pay Tim Sweeney to shill a bit harder before we see these "only on ps5*" games running on pc and xbox.

*not actually only on ps5

 

[MrFunSocks]

I'm still waiting for real world mind-blowing "only on ps5*" ssd performance to manifest itself. Last time I saw it mentioned was people showing off a relatively slow respawn in Astrobot. Nevermind I get literal instant respawns on Ghostrunner most recently, an unreleased game that puts Astrobot to shame on max settings with an hdd.

Sony needs to pay Tim Sweeney to shill a bit harder before we see these "only on ps5*" games running on pc and xbox.

*not actually only on ps5

Not to mention the other "only possible on PS5" showcases like Horizon 2 and Spider-Man Miles Morales lol. We all saw how that turned out.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

$25 is a *massive* difference in BOM for a console. Like legit a bit difference. You're thinking in terms of 1 single console, not in terms of 100 million consoles. An extra $25 per console costs on the PS4 would mean that Sony made $2.5 BILLION less than they had after selling 100 mill consoles. That's big money.



They haven't because it's a very, very, short list.

The $25 delta I used is for retail PRICE and not COST. Therefore it's not a $25 delta in BOM.

Try again.

 

[NT80]

I'm still waiting for real world mind-blowing "only on ps5*" ssd performance to manifest itself. Last time I saw it mentioned was people showing off a relatively slow respawn in Astrobot. Nevermind I get literal instant respawns on Ghostrunner most recently, an unreleased game that puts Astrobot to shame on max settings with an hdd.

Sony needs to pay Tim Sweeney to shill a bit harder before we see these "only on ps5*" games running on pc and xbox.

*not actually only on ps5

It's probably gonna take years before we see this really put to the test. The machine isn't even out yet and the launch games of a new consoles have rarely ever been indicative of what a new system's actually capable of.

 

[EverydayBeast]

SSD in next gen hardware is meaningful leave it at that.

 

[Godzilla Emu]

Fact: PS5 is an absolute beast. It's going to be amazing.

Also a fact: I can't stop laughing every time I read SSD and PS5 in the same sentence. It's NeoGAF's secret best meme. The local SDF pushed this narrative a bit too hard.

 

[FrankWza]

The $25 delta I used is for retail PRICE and not COST. Therefore it's not a $25 delta in BOM.

Try again.

There's nothing to try again. You're wrong. You're going back and editing posts and changing YOUR perspective at every turn. First when I said it was 30% more you tried to argue in hard dollars from$1-$2. Then you changed to percentage when you included the dram into the console price as a whole which LOWERS the percentage to 5% but it's stays at $25. Now delta and bom?!!! You are rationalizing math like you're good will hunting. Including dram is a significant increase in price. However you slice it. And I'm not even wicked smahht

 

[onQ123]

Maybe the next generation Play-Go chip is connected to the memory controller & the 2GB of DDR RAM will also be used for background OS stuff

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So if the PS5 SSD has its own DRAM cache, im guessing they will mandate expansions cards to also have a DRAM cache of equal or similar performance.

Or is the DRAM cache on board for the internal and expansions NVMe?

Does anyone one know anything or are we just flinging shit at the each other and hoping some tastes good.

All high-end NVMe m.2 SSD's have DRAM's. No worries there. Only low-tier don't have.

 

[Black_Stride]

All high-end NVMe m.2 SSD's have DRAM's. No worries there. Only low-tier don't have.

So strong chance Sony mandates a DRAM cache on Nvmes to pass the test right?
I was wondering this because if the DRAM cache on the console could also work for the Nvme they theoretically could allow lower cost Phison E18 drives to work, which would make expanding the PS5 storage alot more affordable for the user.

Since the PS5s SSD would take on the DRAM job sustained speeds might be possible even with lower cost SSDs.

 

[Physiognomonics]

So strong chance Sony mandates a DRAM cache on Nvmes to pass the test right?
I was wondering this because if the DRAM cache on the console could also work for the Nvme they theoretically could allow lower cost Phison E18 drives to work, which would make expanding the PS5 storage alot more affordable for the user.

Since the PS5s SSD would take on the DRAM job sustained speeds might be possible even with lower cost SSDs.

No. All Nvme SSDs will use the existing I/O hardware: SSD controller, cache etc.

 

[Black_Stride]

No. All Nvme SSDs will use the existing I/O hardware: SSD controller, cache etc.

Im sure thats the case.
But im talking theoretically, the XSX uses a DRAMless SSD with the cache being on a separate piece of hardware.
Couldnt the PS5 use its onboard DRAM cache for an SSD plugged into the port?

 

[IntentionalPun]

Is this what Sweeny was talking about?

PS5 SSD Is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO Says - IGN

The PlayStation 5 breakthroughs on SSD and storage are ahead of any PC alternatives.

www.ign.com

I think he's just talking the SSD itself here.

 

[FrankWza]

No. All Nvme SSDs will use the existing I/O hardware: SSD controller, cache etc.

wouldnt that only apply to playingPS5 games?

Im sure thats the case.
But im talking theoretically, the XSX uses a DRAMless SSD with the cache being on a separate piece of hardware.
Couldnt the PS5 use its onboard DRAM cache for an SSD plugged into the port?

It wouldn't be enough for another drive to piggyback to play PS5 games and for anything else it wouldn't be necessary.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So strong chance Sony mandates a DRAM cache on Nvmes to pass the test right?
I was wondering this because if the DRAM cache on the console could also work for the Nvme they theoretically could allow lower cost Phison E18 drives to work, which would make expanding the PS5 storage alot more affordable for the user.

Since the PS5s SSD would take on the DRAM job sustained speeds might be possible even with lower cost SSDs.

Yes, all high-end NVMe m.2 SSD's have them, don't worry about it

 

[Entroyp]

No. All Nvme SSDs will use the existing I/O hardware: SSD controller, cache etc.

I believe Cerny said that external SSDs (in the M.2 drive) will use their own SSD controller, which will have different architecture, cache, etc etc. That would be the reason compatibility tests are needed.

All SSDs will use the I/O subsystem though.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I believe Cerny said that external SSDs (in the M.2 drive) will use their own SSD controller, which will have different architecture, cache, etc etc. That would be the reason compatibility tests are needed.

All SSDs will use the I/O subsystem though.

No, he never say that. the external SSD is just the ram, nothing more. The most important part of PS5 I/O is not the ram, it's not even the SSD controller, it's the cache + Kraken decompressor + I/O coprocessors + coherency engine + DMAC and the custom filesystem. The SSD part (the replaceable nvme ssd) is only the part with the 12 chips at the bottom:

 

[Entroyp]

No, he never say that. the external SSD is just the ram, nothing more. The most important part of PS5 I/O is not the ram, it's not even the SSD controller, it's the cache + Kraken decompressor + I/O coprocessors + coherency engine + DMAC and the custom filesystem. The SSD part (the replaceable nvme ssd) is only the part with the 12 chips at the bottom:

Ok, what do you mean by SSD controller then? The custom Flash controller?

 

[Physiognomonics]

Ok, what do you mean by SSD controller then? The custom Flash controller?

Yes.

 

[Zato]

This seems a relatively minor difference between the two consoles? The Tweet is baiting replies with "Cheap PC SSD's don't have DRAM cache and are fine for light work loads".

Cheap SSD's don't have a DRAM cache. Statement of fact.

 

[Entroyp]

Yes.

Forward to 22:00 onwards...

The M.2 external drive will use its own flash controller, cache, etc etc... not the custom Flash controller in PS5's soldered SSD.

The I/O complex with its own cache is a different story though. All data going to RAM goes through it.

 

[onQ123]

So the old rumors about PS5 having 18GB of RAM had a little truth to them

 

[Bankai]

Oof, this is another gamechanger for sure.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Forward to 22:00 onwards...

The M.2 external drive will use its own flash controller, cache, etc etc... not the custom Flash controller in PS5's soldered SSD.

The I/O complex with its own cache is a different story though. All data going to RAM goes through it.

No. you are misunderstanding him. There is no controller on the external drive at all (he is talking about the first comparison with a commercial M2 drive). It must use PS5 controller with its 12 channels so it must be faster than PS5 onboard SSD. Rewatch it.

He says: "our custom I/O unit has to arbitrate the priorities rather than the M2 drives flash controller (in the commercial units)" so this is why the SSD needs to be faster than 5.5 GB/s