I agree with all of this, when I was really getting into the story it came to an end.
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Quantum Break Unmarked Spoiler Thread
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I agree with all of this, when I was really getting into the story it came to an end.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
At the start I was digging how much effort had gone into the design of the time machine and such, and at the end I was getting into the story and a lot of the characters were finally clicking, but there was a bit for the first couple of acts where you're basically just on the run and it was pretty dull / uninteresting to me. The fact that Jack was such an idiot until about 4/5 of the way through the game was also a source of frustration. He was like 5 steps behind where the player was at in terms of figuring out what was up for most of it. Every time he stares dumbly at one of those murals on the wall I wanted to reach out and strangle the dude, lol.
As far as the TV show goes, I would not say it's good TV. The stutter effects looked much worse than they did in the game which felt strange to me, but eh. The security guy with his kid on the way was pretty awful for the most part, he kind of just pinged around with only half a clue what was going on and then showed up in the finale just in time for his pregnant wife to get held hostage. He and his wife just felt like such superfluous characters, like they'd written them in just to have scenes where they tug on your heart strings but it never felt natural. The computer hacker character was pretty obnoxious overall.
Or does she?
This was very irritating.
The only reason the stutter effects look any good to us is because we're playing Jack. They billow out around him. From everyone else's perspective they're just time stopping. With a tiny bit of "fragmenting" going on.
I didn't think the show was great either until episode 4.
The wife stuff was pretty gash - although in my timeline she was never held hostage? - but the game's texts explain why the security head was running around like a headless chicken. It was intentional. Hatch kept him clued down re the Lifeboat, time travel, and everything, so that he'd be a frustrated and ignorant grunt to the end. Loyal in the face of ignorance. And he plays up to the part, even saying at one point to his wife "they tell me nothing. I'm kept in the dark".
That was well handled imo.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Is there a quick text guide I can read to the variations somewhere?
Play it a second time
or just replay the junction points to watch the different episodes with different choices 
Alx
Member
Until 4/5 of the way through ? I think Jack was clueless all along. His brother was the brain, he was the muscles. He's actually not so different from Burke, he's only focusing on saving one person by gunning his way through. He does what people tell him to do to reach that goal even if he doesn't really understand what's happening.
Jack's whole plan was basically :
1. save Will
2. ask Will to solve whatever is happening
Even in the last act he hadn't understood that "the past already happened" (even if it's the first thing Paul taught him in the introduction), he was all "hey Will I saved you, now let's change the future like Michael J Fox in that funny movie..."
It is infuriating to see him so ignorant, but it's also what makes the characters interesting. As a matter of fact not understanding what's happening is a defining point of most characters (save for Hatch, maybe), and that's what makes the story appealing.
wackojackosnose
Member
So if I replay via Timeline and change my junction choice, do I still need to do the collectibles again? I just want to kill things with my full powers!Play it a second time
Remedy - make a kill box mode please!!!
Alx
Member
You'll keep your upgraded abilities if you replay levels from the timeline, but you will only have access to the powers you're supposed to have at that time (no blast nor time rush in act 1).
Different choices will change some of the collectibles (emails and such), so if you're going for the 100% collection achievement and you're currently at 99%, maybe you'd prefer collecting everything with your current junctions first, and only change things afterwards.
Different choices will change some of the collectibles (emails and such), so if you're going for the 100% collection achievement and you're currently at 99%, maybe you'd prefer collecting everything with your current junctions first, and only change things afterwards.
wackojackosnose
Member
Ah thanks for that! I've already 100%ed so I'll just kill everything and read things later.
Am I the only person who finds Jack ignorance perfectly understandable... Everyone around him has spent decades coming to grips with the ins and outs of time travel.
He had just over 24hrs to do what he thought was neccisary to save the universe. I don't think we can fault him for not being an expert.
She was definately killed in 2010.
He had just over 24hrs to do what he thought was neccisary to save the universe. I don't think we can fault him for not being an expert.
She was definately killed in 2010.
Alx
Member
Yes that's 100% understandable. Even if there are some concepts he could have grasped faster (but he probably didn't want to), it's more realistic that way rather than have him become a chronon expert in the span of one day. Especially since his bio suggests he's more of an action man than an intellectual.
As a matter of fact the thing that bothered me the most was how easily he became familiar with the time machine after operating it only once.
Well, so did Hatch in 2016.
But I agree that I'd rather have her definitely dead. The possible explanations of her surviving her 2010 death are too unlikely. And it adds to the tragedy of the character.Yes that's 100% understandable. Even if there are some concepts he could have grasped faster (but he probably didn't want to), it's more realistic that way rather than have it become a chronon expert in the span of one day. Especially since his bio suggests he's more of an action man than an intellectual.
As a matter of fact the thing that bothered me the most was how easily he became familiar with the time machine after operating it only once.
Well, so did Hatch in 2016.
Yeah, well Hatch was a shifter. I don't think we have any reason to believe Beth had he chronon exposure neccisary to fully succumb to the disease.
She was there when The CFR went off, but It took Jack a failed time experiment + 2 CFR events to start showing symptoms.
AusRoachman
Member
Great game and an amazingly deep story. Hurts my brain trying to put together all the time jumps .
Can't wait to replay it to find all the things I missed and choose new junction points.
My game of the gen so far , remedy knocks it out the park again imo.
Can't wait to replay it to find all the things I missed and choose new junction points.
My game of the gen so far , remedy knocks it out the park again imo.
boredJonathan
Member
There are several collectibles that will change depending on junction choices. The most obvious being the first junction HARDLINE versus PR. That choice influences all of the radios you find, and who is broadcasting on them. This means that if you are close to getting 100% collectibles, and care about the trophy - I'd go back through and play each Act you are missing items on EASY to collect any missing bits - then go back and change the junctions.
I actually did my first play through on Normal, went back and did each mission I was missing collectibles for on Easy, and then started from the first mission on HARD and played through the game again changing my junction points.
In the end, I'd almost recommend most people play on HARD as it really does force you to use your powers much more aggressively, and in the end made the game much more fun. While I enjoyed my play through on Normal -- Hard made it one my favorites in a long time. It helped that the alternate story choices also played out better (imho).
Honestly there weren't so man time jumps, just the final act really get's in. And then the game ends
I felt like it was only starting from here on out.
Roni
Gold Member
Why? In 2016 both Paul and Jack look like they are around their 30's. That fits the timeline.
In any case it doesn't matter because Paul says they BOTH were 12-14 when that happened and he was never able to travel further back than the 28th of February of 1999, which was the first activation of Will's time machine.
EDIT:
You're right it fits the timeline. We don't know exactly how old these two are at the start of the game, but it's mentioned that they appear to be in their 30's. We know that the vagrant event took place shortly after paul returned to1999. And when Paul is talking to Jack, he's giving a rough range of their childhood ages.
EDIT:
You're right it fits the timeline. We don't know exactly how old these two are at the start of the game, but it's mentioned that they appear to be in their 30's. We know that the vagrant event took place shortly after paul returned to1999. And when Paul is talking to Jack, he's giving a rough range of their childhood ages.
But what about "I'll come back for you"
TBH, could easily be read as his complete idiocy surrounding 'closed loops', but it could also mean he's on-hand in the background to step in and save her. Or he gives her a bullet-proof vest immediately before hand, on the down-low?
Your first statement is totally on-point - but the problem we're discussing ITT is that in-game texts explain things which, half an hour later, Jack needs to be asked about. There's a big break there between the player's experience and the player's character
Paul shoots her in the head, right?
Jack coming back for Beth, without breaking the loop, can only be done in one particular way:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201582654&postcount=291
Well, he CAN go back for her, but whether or not he can successfully save her is a different story. There are 11 years between 99-2010 where a Jack from after the events of 2016 could have gone back and interacted with Beth before her demise.
But as with everything else in the game, it would mean that it has already happened (unbeknownst to current Jack), and the outcome will be the same.
I think it also goes without saying that Jack doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. The guy runs on pure emotion.
BlackProdigy
Member
Beat the game last week and I miss it so much
Did you only beat it once? If so, go back and choose the different choices and play the game with all of your supped up powers (obviously use Timeline for this). You actually feel like a super hero at that point.
Except from Paul's point of view, she's this woman who's been pursuing - and trying to kill - him ever since the Riverport experiment. At a time when they were both stuck in the End of Time, I seem to recall one account (from the audio diaries?) from Paul that suggested that she attacked him. And Riverport Experiment Paul is fundamentally innocent; tinkering with things he probably shouldn't, but not a callous manipulator.
Given the whole nature of the subject matter, they might be people who use the time machine in the future. Neither the University machine or the Bradbury machine are destroyed (Indeed, I assume they can't be destroyed, because the core needs to be active at the EoT to be able to send/receive people)
One question that does linger in my mind; it's established that clockwise through the machine goes forward in time, anticlockwise goes backwards. Okay; fair enough. So Beth and Jack are preparing to head back to 2010, with Amaral at the controls, and as Amaral adjusts them to point to the EoT, the door closes on Beth so she has to go clockwise and forwards.
Why on earth is Beth even in the doorway to go clockwise in the first place? They're planning to go back, they need to be looking at the anticlockwise door.
I'm not sure if this is a case of the idiot ball, or of Beth accepting her destiny (although she does seem somewhat surprised by it, rather than fatalistic at that point)
sertopico
Member
Yeah you might be right about the people, that's the only explanation which makes sense. The expressions on their faces looks so troubled and hopeless though, like they lived those moments over and over, that is why I thought about Beth. This game, story wise, feels depressing on so many levels, everybody is bound to its own destiny and you cannot change it at all. This reconnects me to your doubt: I think Beth perfectly knows what's going to happen, after all she wrote everything on her diary. It cannot be a mistake in the narrative, that would be too big. What surprised her probably was the fact Jack wasn't getting inside along with her, or maybe she knew it already, seeing events happening exactly as they've been described could cause some commotion.
So here's a fun bit of weirdness that struck me: What caused the fracture? I don't think that's ever really established beyond "Something went a bit wrong with the time machine". I was expecting - before playing the game - the fracture to turn out to be related to some sort of paradox causing everything to break down but everything that actually takes place in the game is shown to be 'predicted for' in the timeline. There's no event that's suddenly obviously 'this can't happen', no Grandfather-shooting, no time-machine-destroying...
...in the normal execution of the storyline. But, well, the storyline ends with no fracture? And what stands in the way of that event? GAME OVER.
I put it to you, audience, that the death of Jack before successfully containing the fracture is, in fact, the very paradox that causes the fracture to occur.
I'm struggling to find a flaw in this logic - although I'll happily concede that it's making more than a few assumptions - and conceptually, I adore it.
...in the normal execution of the storyline. But, well, the storyline ends with no fracture? And what stands in the way of that event? GAME OVER.
I put it to you, audience, that the death of Jack before successfully containing the fracture is, in fact, the very paradox that causes the fracture to occur.
I'm struggling to find a flaw in this logic - although I'll happily concede that it's making more than a few assumptions - and conceptually, I adore it.
Wasn't it implied that Will thought Paul's calculations were off or something? Presumably he had a key part of the math wrong, and when meddling with such forces that can be disastrous.
I don't think he's ignorant, he's stubborn. There are these characters telling him that you can't change the past, but that's not necessarily true from his perspective. I think that's what's great about the game—it lays out a way of time travel being possible but leaves open exactly what the rules actually are; we just hear people talk with absolute certainty what they think the rules are.
You can read the fracture as being as simple as bad math on Serene's side. Alternatively, I think you could argue it was the countermeasure's "ground zero" that started things off badly and perhaps the time machine interacted badly with that source of chronons; that gets messy quickly though trying to tie everything together in a causal loop.
Fracture started with the start of the university's time machine. Time broke only down after the activation. The Counter Measure didn't really fix the fracture at the end of the game; it only "postponed" the End of Time. The world will go DOWN in the upcoming five years! They are all doomed! lol
"One world's end is another's beginning. My world will see balance, my world will see renewal (or was it my goal is renewal?)."
Watching all the different choices on my second playthough and Hatch says some interesting stuff to Charlie at the end of episode 4. He's so mysterious.
Also, I really wish I knew the name of the tune that plays whenever the lifeboat stuff comes into play. A nice, short ditty.
Watching all the different choices on my second playthough and Hatch says some interesting stuff to Charlie at the end of episode 4. He's so mysterious.
Also, I really wish I knew the name of the tune that plays whenever the lifeboat stuff comes into play. A nice, short ditty.
SenseiAsad
Member
Goddamn, finally got around to beating the game, and this thread is eye opening. Didn't realise the writing was going to be this deep. I think Remedy pulled off the time travel stuff really well, fingers crossed we get a sequel, or at least some DLCs. Hoping I get a chance to read the book too.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Great game. My only question is this:
How did Paul and Beth find Will's time machine at the end of time to travel back to 1999? It clearly couldn't have been at the swimming pool, as "Future Monarch Paul with time powers" had no idea where it was in 2016 until the very end of the game.
How did Paul and Beth find Will's time machine at the end of time to travel back to 1999? It clearly couldn't have been at the swimming pool, as "Future Monarch Paul with time powers" had no idea where it was in 2016 until the very end of the game.
If I recall correctly it was Future Beth who had will move the time machine there. Before that it was at his workshop on the docks.
Future Beth must have told baby Beth were it would be...
You might ask how the first future Beth found it the first time... And the answer is "this is the first time"
OrbitalBeard
Member
Yes, this is true.
...but it couldn't have been at the pool at the end of time, as Future Paul never knew where Will's time machine was later on (he doesn't find its location until the very end of the game). I'm guessing Future Beth had Will move it to the pool in 1999 for this very purpose, to keep its location a secret from him.
I'm assuming Will's time machine was moved again after 2016 and they somehow found it by chance at the end of time. Or, like the above poster said, Future Beth relayed its end of time-location to her 8 year old-self when they met.
Edit - Oh, I just thought of something else. Near the end of the game in 2016, everything is crashing together and getting jumbled up (like the train in the Monarch building, car accidents everywhere, planes crashing, etc.). It's possible by 2021, the world looks very unrecognizable to Paul and Beth, so even if the time machine had never been moved from the pool after 2016, they would have been unable to recognize its location, which is why Paul had no idea where it was later on. That seems to make sense....or that might not be it lol. Doesn't really matter, I'm just thinking too deeply about this little plot point.
Lol it's hard not to think too deeply. This game will screw with your mind.
I'm gonna stick with the theory that Beth grew up with knowledge of the Time Machines location thanks to Future Beth. And Future Beth knew where it was thanks to Future Future Beth. We'll never get a resolution as to where the information originally came from due to the inherent paradox.
There are other such paradoxes in the game. My favorite is that Beth's Time Harness lead to Paul's breakthrough's at Monarch.... so monarch tech from the future is the basis for current Monarch tech, which leads to the future tech....
LukasTaves
Member
He means a different point though, that Paul found out the machine in the end of time (as far as we know in the swimming pool), but after these events he never knew where it was before.
That is indeed badly explained, or even a plot hole. Didn't Beth came out in Will's machine in the end of time? But it's said before that she and paul found Will's time machine when they were fighting, how could she not found for herself if she came out of it?
But there's indeed a paradox there, Beth says she asked Will to move it to the swimming pool because in the future it was there and Paul never found it. So she was the reason the machine was moved, but she only moves it because it was moved before.
Coming to think of it, Beth is pretty much the cause for the entire plot. She's the one that makes Will move the machine causing Paul to create a defective one (instead of stealing a one that could work), her shoot out with Paul causes him to change, she wearing a monarch tech makes him create Monarch and develop that tech, and she trying to get the counter measure only gives it to Paul who them becomes deadly set that the only way out of the end of time is to wait for it to occur and them try to fix it. It makes her plot even more dark because she probably realized that herself, that she dedicated her life to prepare for this event only to find out she was the one that caused it.
It doesn't matter where the machine is located, but it matters where the core is. The core at the end of time could be in a completely different time machine then.
The book handles this a little bit differently.
I doubt the machine or core was at the swimming pool at the end of time... They'd almost certainly have to move it after the events of 2016, since the secret got out.
Regarding Beth, I too agree that she has the most tragic timeline. I've mentioned it earlier in the thread. In addition to all that, she gets Jacks parents killed, helps enable 9/11 twice! It makes so much sense that she was distraught when Jack joined her in 2010. I really wish she could have been incorporated as a playable character as originally planned...
One thing I like about this games story is the matter of "perspective". Many movies/games/books create these antagonists who believe they are doing the right thing, and everyone else is the bad guy. But this game nails it. Beth IS the antagonist, in a way.
Care to spoil how the book handles this?
Edit: on another note, are there stutters in the past? I know that the 2016 event causes the fracture, but with time breaking down, are the effects retroactive?
OrbitalBeard
Member
Yeah, this is the conclusion I've come to.
I really, really loved this game, despite a few issues I had with it. I'll probably do another playthrough sooner than expected.
In the book
Paul knows that Wiliam is doing something at the swimming pool.
As far as I know stutters never occured before the activation of the university time machine.
Nostremitus
Member
So... Martin Hatch...
He's a shifter. He exists everywhere and nowhere. Does this mean he's jumping from one reality to another in the multiverse trying to bring them all down? Quantum Break just happens to be one reality in which he is operating?
I mean, his eye drops had to come from somewhere and we know Monarch doesn't have the tech to make a medication that works that well, otherwise Paul would be using them instead of the breathing treatments that are losing their effectiveness.
He's a shifter. He exists everywhere and nowhere. Does this mean he's jumping from one reality to another in the multiverse trying to bring them all down? Quantum Break just happens to be one reality in which he is operating?
I mean, his eye drops had to come from somewhere and we know Monarch doesn't have the tech to make a medication that works that well, otherwise Paul would be using them instead of the breathing treatments that are losing their effectiveness.
transformer
Member
I finished the game a couple of days ago and working my way through a second time to explore other branches of the story and obtain collectibles. I just finished the act where Paul kills Beth and noticed something I thought was telling. Paul pulls the gun on her and Beth says "you can't" right before Paul shoots her. Kind of an odd thing to say, but given her experience and beliefs in time travel, I'm led to believe that she believes she couldn't die at that point in time. Perhaps she has already seen her future self. This could lend some credence towards jack saving her, or perhaps I'm reading into it too much.
When meeting Beth in the past you can see Beth's painting that illustrates how she met her younger self. She knew from that point on, when she met herself, that she can die every moment.
"You can't..."
I think she wanted to say something like "You can't change anything" or "You can't fix it". She probably wanted to say more, but he cut her off.
â Narayan
Member
Beat my first run last night. This is probably the best time travel fiction I've encountered. I would really like to see a sequel, but it seems like Remedy is moving towards smaller scale projects since this game, at least from what I've heard, didn't sell too well. Also squashes any hope for seeing an Alan Wake sequel.
Hatch is the most interesting character for me. In the message he leaves for Jack, he mentions that he encountered a naturally occurring time corridor in a cave. Where would he find such an occurrence to begin with? I'm very curious to see where this could be taken.
Was the cause for the acceleration towards the End of Time event ever mentioned? Looking at the timeline in Paul's office, it's supposed to occur in 2021, but the increased incidence of stutters implied that it would be occurring much earlier than expected until Will's countermeasure is utilized, which probably only delayed the event more than anything.
Seeing Jack entering the Junction-shifter phase is pretty cool. Would definitely like to see the outcome(s) of that.
Also: Beth's outcome is soul crushing. I would like to see a positive resolution for her.
Hatch is the most interesting character for me. In the message he leaves for Jack, he mentions that he encountered a naturally occurring time corridor in a cave. Where would he find such an occurrence to begin with? I'm very curious to see where this could be taken.
Was the cause for the acceleration towards the End of Time event ever mentioned? Looking at the timeline in Paul's office, it's supposed to occur in 2021, but the increased incidence of stutters implied that it would be occurring much earlier than expected until Will's countermeasure is utilized, which probably only delayed the event more than anything.
Seeing Jack entering the Junction-shifter phase is pretty cool. Would definitely like to see the outcome(s) of that.
Also: Beth's outcome is soul crushing. I would like to see a positive resolution for her.
â Narayan
Member
I have not, but your mention of it prompted me to read a synopsis of it. Interesting!
∀ Narayan;219529229 said:Beat my first run last night. This is probably the best time travel fiction I've encountered. I would really like to see a sequel, but it seems like Remedy is moving towards smaller scale projects since this game, at least from what I've heard, didn't sell too well. Also squashes any hope for seeing an Alan Wake sequel.
It is. Now, get the god damn book and read it
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