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Racist Twitter user jailed for 56 days
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
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Did people have to read his tweets? Yes, what he said was stupid and hateful but deserving of being removed from society? Come on. If being a racist, internet tough guy is worthy of severe punishments then XBL would be a pretty lonely place.
Like I said before, his name being associated with those opinions is punishment enough.
I also don't want to be around hated filled people so I avoid them. It's pretty easy as a society to shun them without the help of the law.
Wishing violence on him on top of everything else he's getting? lol
No, I'm not saying racism is acceptable. I guess not supporting unnecessary gov action = tolerant of racists and this hatred. "It's only twitter and it's easy to avoid" was a response to your point that offline and online actions shouldn't only be treated the same but are the same.
You want to know how many people have threatened to "kick my ass" in the ~13 years I've had internet access? You know how many have followed through with it? Zero. Was there any reason to believe he would follow through with the threat? I just saw the youtube vid with the tweets and it seemed like pretty standard internet tough guy when you remove the racism.
edit: rereading those tweets it sounds like he responded to a threat with that threat.
I know right? I was locked up most of my life growing up there and if I tried to write an essay, or a poem, a van would arrive and lock me up.
It's a different country, with different laws.
Here in the US, for example, I can follow a teenager around, confront him after being told not to, shoot him dead, and then go home and have a cup of tea, with the blessing of the police.
Another example: I can be jailed for life for stealing three consecutive cans of whipped cream, on separate occasions. Or executed because I am illiterate. It's so much cooler here than in Britain.
Spehornoob
Member
"You can't take away people's right to be assholes."
- Simon Pheonix
Sure he was a psycho killer in a Stallone movie, but I thought he was kind of dead on. Don't like this guy's being jailed at all.
- Simon Pheonix
Sure he was a psycho killer in a Stallone movie, but I thought he was kind of dead on. Don't like this guy's being jailed at all.
That's a great idea since obviously if you stop saying them, you'll stop believing them. *physicstroll.gif*That sucks. I guess I'll just have to stop saying mean spirited and racist things
It sure is!
Agreed you can't lock up racists to teach them the error of their ways. By all accounts this guy isn't a racist, he's playing a prank, like so many other people on the internet and in real life, especially in university, and just like in real life if you take pranks too far you get in trouble. I doubt very much this guy would have ever played a racist prank in real life, but on the internet it's fair game, people think that line doesn't exist online but they are wrong and this guy crossed it.
Im sure 99% of people wont go to prison for these offences but some times cases are so high profile that judges have to set an example, this guy has fallen foul of one of those times.
You guys clearly have enough on your plate... why don't you leave this topic for us fragile and insecure brits to reflect on. we'll try to do it without giving each-other a ring around the robbledy goo skipperroo.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
i'm trying as hard as I can to be outraged, I really am.
The Incarnation
Member
Frankly anyone who calls someone a wog cunt, insinuates that someone has Aids because they're African and calls them a nigger is a racist in my book..
radioheadrule83
Banned
Beliefs are fine, however stupid. We have some repugnant racists and weirdos at the margins of society, we have the EDL and BNP too...
what isn't fine is feeling you can spend an entire evening abusing other members of the public, calling them all manner of epithets and threatening physical violence - using language of such a disgusting nature and timing that overnight, you become a high profile lightning rod for racists and outrage a great majority of the largely decent public. That he did so from the safety of his PC only makes him a coward as well as an idiot. I don't think anything excuses his behaviour. If his timing had been different, and his attacks less incendiary - he might not have been made an example of. The judge merely gave the mob what it wants. Nobody wants people like this prick behaving this way.
Like I said, harsh, but fuck him.
TheNatural
My Member!
It's sports. When people get involved in sports they want to troll other people or fans in any way possible. The lowest common denominator then gets used to piss people off or say something controversial. Some dumb bitch said something about 9/11 to taunt the Giants about the Super Bowl.
It's a racist thing to say, and maybe the guy is some type of one, who knows. Chances are, he just used the most obvious and inciteful thing to piss someone off knowing it would.
I don't think that's worth jail time. A stupid ass thing to say? Yes. Banned from Twitter? Yes. Hell, even kicked out of his University for behavior? Sure. It's really scary though if this is the way things go nowadays in other countries, putting people in jail for absolute stupid shit they say on the internet. That's getting into '1984' territory I think.
Clairvoyance
Member
But it's the internet, so it's totally cool. >_>
Rabbit Lord
Member
At first I was really bothered by people in this thread saying this was a good thing.
Then I thought, oh, it's not that bad, they're just going overboard in their efforts to signal that they think racism is bad.
Then I thought, yeah, which is probably exactly what got these laws written to begin with.
:/
Then I thought, oh, it's not that bad, they're just going overboard in their efforts to signal that they think racism is bad.
Then I thought, yeah, which is probably exactly what got these laws written to begin with.
:/
I hope you posted that from a government mandated Free Speech Zone. I'd hate to crack out my pepper spray.
Yeah until you say something someone doesn't like.
radioheadrule83
Banned
People should be put in prison for invoking 1984 arguments. They make me want to headbutt a desk. Or make someone else headbutt a desk. Until they die.
No-one in Britain would stand for serious free speech suppression... the caveat is, nobody particularly minds when a horrible cunt is treated like a horrible cunt. Because he's been a horrible cunt. I am glad he is being inconvenienced at her Majesty's pleasure. I am glad he's unhappy. I'm sure tonnes of other people who read his bile are as well. I can't bring myself to give a shit about him.
Bay Maximus
Banned
You know what? The UK is alright with me. Hope he has a fun vacation and takes care of himself in there.
Americans don't want racists either. And if you haven't noticed, we talk about racial issues a lot. But unless someone is specifically inciting violence, you do not throw someone in jail for expressing an opinion, no matter how vile the opinion is. You just don't. Freedom of speech is so deeply enshrined in American sociopolitical culture that if American culture was a religion, the First Amendment would be scripture. People here talk about freedom of speech all over the place, even in situations where it doesn't apply.
So you have to understand that for Americans looking at this, the idea of the government throwing someone in jail for expressing even the most evil, sick, twisted opinion ever just doesn't make sense. It doesn't compute. We don't know wtf we're looking at. "Jail? Really?"
TheNatural
My Member!
You just caled him a cunt, so what if someone thinks that is deragatory speech and puts you in jail? Who draws the line on this bullshit?
Get over it. People say stupid shit on the internet all the time and the populace and private institutions deal out their own brand of justice for it. The government has no place in getting involved with that and deciding what is, or isn't acceptable forms of speech. That is, in a true free country.
Vermillion
Banned
Late, but agreed.
No such thing as a true, free country sorry.
TheNatural
My Member!
Semantics, you know what I meant.
My sentiments exactly.
TheNatural
My Member!
I can't imagine its too harsh if this is the type of "crime" people are jailed for in whatever those categories are.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Not really. A "free country" can be a very personal and nebulous concept.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I would prefer community service to jail time.
cultofweaver
Member
An important point that I haven't seen raised.
This is not the erosion of freedom of expression or anything else hyperbolic. The UK has a law which makes it a criminal offence to discriminate against minorities, and a further law stating that it is a criminal offence to incite hatred or violence.
The UK, like all European Union member states, has a law enshrining the freedom of expression. However like all countries with these laws, including the USA, if the expression is in contradiction of another law then it will be outlawed. This is why you can't shout fire in the USA or hoax call the emergency services, and why it is illegal to sell pornography to minors (or in some states at all) and yet legal to sell unrated DVDs of art films. Some forms of expression break other laws and are punishable.
I fully agree with anti-discrimination laws, and especially the incitement laws. As another poster said very eloquently, we do not want these scumbags here.
However this specific case is a clear example of a judge being a prick. He even says in his judgement that he is imposing a custodial sentence because of overwhelming public opinion. This judicial grandstanding and hopefully the guy appeals and gets his sentence reduced to community service (which is by far the most common sentence for this type of offence.)
I can understand the sentiment against the guy. He wasn't just being a racist prick. Fabrice Muamba's collapse was an horrific event. I should know I was sitting the Park Lane when it happened. It was extremely emotional to see a 23 year old athlete collapse face down on the turf and be given CPR by the medical staff for 10 minutes. Pretty much everyone in the ground thought he was dead. His recovery is extraordinary and will make the replayed game (which I am going to in a few minutes) less difficult to watch than it so easily could have been.
But despite that sentiment, he should have got a lighter sentence.
This is not the erosion of freedom of expression or anything else hyperbolic. The UK has a law which makes it a criminal offence to discriminate against minorities, and a further law stating that it is a criminal offence to incite hatred or violence.
The UK, like all European Union member states, has a law enshrining the freedom of expression. However like all countries with these laws, including the USA, if the expression is in contradiction of another law then it will be outlawed. This is why you can't shout fire in the USA or hoax call the emergency services, and why it is illegal to sell pornography to minors (or in some states at all) and yet legal to sell unrated DVDs of art films. Some forms of expression break other laws and are punishable.
I fully agree with anti-discrimination laws, and especially the incitement laws. As another poster said very eloquently, we do not want these scumbags here.
However this specific case is a clear example of a judge being a prick. He even says in his judgement that he is imposing a custodial sentence because of overwhelming public opinion. This judicial grandstanding and hopefully the guy appeals and gets his sentence reduced to community service (which is by far the most common sentence for this type of offence.)
I can understand the sentiment against the guy. He wasn't just being a racist prick. Fabrice Muamba's collapse was an horrific event. I should know I was sitting the Park Lane when it happened. It was extremely emotional to see a 23 year old athlete collapse face down on the turf and be given CPR by the medical staff for 10 minutes. Pretty much everyone in the ground thought he was dead. His recovery is extraordinary and will make the replayed game (which I am going to in a few minutes) less difficult to watch than it so easily could have been.
But despite that sentiment, he should have got a lighter sentence.
i feel really bad that you got arrested for stealing whipped cream but you should have gotten a job and bought it
I don't know what you mean. Do you mean that a 'true, free' country has the exact same restrictions on freedom that your country has specifically? No more, no less?
There are no 'free' countries, you've been sold a lie.
fixed
TheNatural
My Member!
Outside of threatening someone's life (especially the President) or exploiting children or something, I think the US is as pretty close to a free speech country as it gets. You can basically call anyone whatever you want or say whatever you want, as long as you're not endangering someone's life. And even then, the idiots stupid enough to say something about the President will probably only get a secret service visit and nothing else. If you slander or libel someone, you can set yourself up liable for a civil suit, but not a criminal one.
radioheadrule83
Banned
The government didn't get involved in this guy's punishment... they don't have some kind of EPSILON system monitoring Twitter! The only reason the police did anything at all is because they were inundated with complaints about some prick in Swansea causing an offence and furore. In a sense - this IS the populace dealing out its brand of justice.
Most people will agree with me that he is a cunt, and disagree with him being able to call other people cunts who should have their heads stamped on purely because they are black. That is an attitude that is manifestly rejected in this country... nobody wants it here. He didn't express an opinion, he spent an entire evening verbally assaulting and threatening people.
Htown said:
I do understand, and I think its a noble principle to have enshrined in a constitution.
My response though is again, that he wasn't expressing an opinion. If I call you some of the things he was calling people, that's not an opinion. You can't opine that someone is a n***er or a w*g as those words have no qualitative meaning in modern life outside of being incendiary and insutling. It may seem like madness to have the law almost malleable to the winds of public opinion, because that is almost like rule-by-mob, but when passions run high enough here - that is exactly what it is. The racist woman on the London underground, the guy who mugged the tourist during the riots, this guy... they all caught huge amounts of public attention, media coverage and scorn. Members of the public made complaints, and unfortunately for this guy - they can claim, on a technicality, that he has fallen foul of laws against incitement to racial hatred. The way he behaved is viewed as unacceptable and intolerable by such a large proportion of the country. That is the only reason he is able to be charged and sentenced with so little sympathy. This is how we morally moderate ourselves here.
There will be plenty of people in the UK crying crocodile tears for this guy's civil liberties but I'm not one of them. He was a troll playing with fire, he publicly insulted millions, threatened others (whether he meant it or not)... he got burned.
Bay Maximus
Banned
Like, I don't know. I used be all for the US version of free speech since that was most familiar to me. But the arguments I've seen over the last few months makes me seriously question which version is more beneficial for society. Yeah, slippery slope etc etc is a legitimate concern but as pointed out earlier, no country has 100% free speech outside of Best Korea. So I think it could be contained while still treating some of the outright cancers to society.
Him going on vacation is the best kind of community service.
___
Edit: I also agree with the post above mine.
Him going on vacation is the best kind of community service.
___
Edit: I also agree with the post above mine.
Do you support people's right to say what they believe?
The Incarnation
Member
Depends on how you view Jail.
A lot of us here view them like Holiday camps.
God knows how they view them in Norway.
People don't complain about folks being thrown into jail because of not paying a fine. Personally I don't think people should be sent to jail for that.
With so many being thrown into jail for frivolous things it is no longer viewed as being as bad as it once was. Most people in them aren't even in for violent crimes.
But people reap what they sow.
They stayed silent on pensioners getting thrown into prison for not paying their TV licenses, or council tax.
Readily championed the almost automatic 3 month prison term for people who steal even a loaf of bread from the shops, even if they happen to be homeless.
Almost begged for harsher sentences for the people involved in the riots, regards of how small their acts were.
Like the two lads who jokingly said on Facebook, let's start a riot to no effect, who then in turn got 4 years in prison.
But when people are at risk of putting a foot wrong themselves and being punished for it, it's now a BIG problem.
Freedom of speech is great, over here most people stay silent when it is truly needed.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Why do the assholes always have to blame alcohol or mystical hackers for their problems?
Jenga please enlighten me as to where you got the term "rooty tooty" from? You are severely misinformed if you think British people say this. If anything it sounds American.. you know, like: "Boy howdy, what a rootin', tootin', hootin', hollerin', grandma humpin' time that was! I can't wait til next time!"
I'll accept mate, mate.
I'll accept mate, mate.
It's quite easy to identify the American posters from the non-American in this thread.
I agree that jail time seems a little pointless and unnecessary in this case but I am overall okay with the outcome. Let's not forget that the man also issued a threat in one of his tweets about stomping someone's face in.
But there is nothing wrong with jailing someone for hate speech.
I think one thing Americans don't understand is that other countries, even English speaking ones, have different cultures. Specifically, the view of law enforcement officers and the cultures surrounding them are quite different than in America. I've seen shocking cases of police abuse and an overwhelming sentiment that the state law enforcement is not to be trusted from citizens of the USA. This is something almost alien to where I'm from. So, a law that limits speech specifically in the department of inciting hatred is viewed as the worst possible thing because American citizens just see it being used for abuse.
An example:
This is an incredibly ridiculous example and the sort of "fear-mongering" that isn't typically present in discussions outside of America. Primarily, illegal immigrants aren't a race. If you were sitting in a cafe and said to your friend "All blacks are horrible and stealing our jobs - every one of them should be be strung up on trees," I think everyone can agree that is entirely unacceptable.
And I believe that the above statement is an incitement for hatred and if there are laws against it in a country then you should be punished for it. There is no reason for anyone to say such stupid shit and people not in America are going to be quite aware of this.
I agree that jail time seems a little pointless and unnecessary in this case but I am overall okay with the outcome. Let's not forget that the man also issued a threat in one of his tweets about stomping someone's face in.
But there is nothing wrong with jailing someone for hate speech.
I think one thing Americans don't understand is that other countries, even English speaking ones, have different cultures. Specifically, the view of law enforcement officers and the cultures surrounding them are quite different than in America. I've seen shocking cases of police abuse and an overwhelming sentiment that the state law enforcement is not to be trusted from citizens of the USA. This is something almost alien to where I'm from. So, a law that limits speech specifically in the department of inciting hatred is viewed as the worst possible thing because American citizens just see it being used for abuse.
An example:
This is an incredibly ridiculous example and the sort of "fear-mongering" that isn't typically present in discussions outside of America. Primarily, illegal immigrants aren't a race. If you were sitting in a cafe and said to your friend "All blacks are horrible and stealing our jobs - every one of them should be be strung up on trees," I think everyone can agree that is entirely unacceptable.
And I believe that the above statement is an incitement for hatred and if there are laws against it in a country then you should be punished for it. There is no reason for anyone to say such stupid shit and people not in America are going to be quite aware of this.
In the UK it comes from the term gollywog and is incredibly racist.
This is the typical gollywog doll:
Obviously I don't need to say anything else.
Looks like a Zwarte Piet. Yeah I went there Dutch Gaf. 56 days in a British prison for all y'all.
That is a danger, but the mistake is make it a crime since there's very little evidence that is tweets did nothing more than backfire n him. It was more of a testament to people not putting up with it.
The guy is facing plenty of repercussions so what exactly does jailtime do that public scorn and being branded a loser college flunky didn't already do?
Vermillion
Banned
And that's where it is for you? That so long as others agree, it's okay? Lemme bring you back some years, where people agreed that speaking out against God was wrong.
"We don't want those people here."
In that time, would jailing someone for speaking against God be correct? Or would you say that they had a right to express their opinion?
As a side note - you realize that there are a few people here who are of minority races, correct? You realize that we don't like racists, yet we're still defending their right to free speech? Because no one else has posted it yet:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Your insinuation that we don't mind racists in the US is grossly inaccurate.
- Status