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[icecold1983]

expected more architectural improvements. This isnt really any bigger than any of the previous gcn improvements despite amds claim that it would be the most substantial. Its still more forward looking and robust than maxwell/pascal but meh. Also looks like production didnt go as planned. Card seems to have trouble maintaining clockspeed

 

[ethomaz]

What is this? Does this mean AMD's GCN improvements have fixed some of their driver overhead?

That means DX12 is not a thing yet and there is little to no advantage over DX11 while the engine not start getting being made in DX12 from the ground.

And performance changes from game to game and you can't compare different games when trying to make a point about which card runs a better patched API.

 

[Aztechnology]

As silly as it sounds I wish more of the benchmarks were done from the perspective of someone upgrading. People with GeForce 600, 700 and Radeon HD 7000/8000.

I don't think it's silly at all. I'd at least like to see the comparisons as well. Contrary to popular belief on GAF, most people on PC only upgrade their GPU every 3-5 years. However these websites wanted to get these out quick with limited time and resources and it focused on the bleeding edge of hardware. Plus I guess they figure people will just extrapolate and compare to existing benches.

 

[Infinite Xero]

To think, the rumors had me on the edge of selling my Fury.

Crisis averted.

 

[Derko1]

Anyone know when these might start getting game bundles? I want to buy two of these, but want to see if I can get one of those get 3 games free bundles that AMD usually does.

 

[ZOONAMI]

I don't think it's silly at all. I'd at least like to see the comparisons as well. Contrary to popular belief on GAF, most people on PC only upgrade their GPU every 3-5 years. However these websites wanted to get these out quick with limited time and resources and it focused on the bleeding edge of hardware. Plus I guess they figure people will just extrapolate and compare to existing benches.

I wish I had that patience. I had a 6gb 780 3 years ago that I imagine would have served me well til now. On second thought, holding onto shit that long = little to no resale value. I'm basically on a rental program when it comes to gpus, and technology and general. Or, hopefully, buy low, and sell for what you bought it for or at least greater than 2/3 of what you bought it for.

 

[element]

I don't think it's silly at all. I'd at least like to see the comparisons as well. Contrary to popular belief on GAF, most people on PC only upgrade their GPU every 3-5 years. However these websites wanted to get these out quick with limited time and resources and it focused on the bleeding edge of hardware. Plus I guess they figure people will just extrapolate and compare to existing benches.

It just seems silly to read and watch some of these reviews and I keep hearing "If you have a 970, you probably shouldn't sell it and get a 480." but I hear nothing of if you have a 660 GTX and $250, which card should you buy and what are the increases you will see.

It is just painful to hear in this benchmark it is 4% slower than X, but 2% faster than Y. Who cares because people aren't going to buy an 480 if they already own those cards that benchmark close to it.

 

[Zojirushi]

expected more architectural improvements. This isnt really any bigger than any of the previous gcn improvements despite amds claim that it would be the most substantial. Its still more forward looking and robust than maxwell/pascal but meh. Also looks like production didnt go as planned. Card seems to have trouble maintaining clockspeed

What do you mean by "forward looking and robust"?

 

[ZOONAMI]

To think, the rumors had me on the edge of selling my Fury.

Crisis averted.

How much is a used fury going for these days? I really wouldn't think that 4gb of vram helps.

 

[Olli128]

Ordered the 8gb 480, I'm guessing its going to be a significant jump from my 270x 2gb that died last month

 

[ZOONAMI]

It just seems silly to read and watch some of these reviews and I keep hearing "If you have a 970, you probably shouldn't sell it and get a 480." but I hear nothing of if you have a 660 GTX and $250, which card should you buy and what are the increases you will see.

I would a absolutely sell a 970 and get a 480 for the vram alone. As long as you can get at least $200 for the 970. Especially an aftermarket 480 if they do end up clocking well.

 

[Infinite Xero]

How much is a used fury going for these days? I really wouldn't think that 4gb of vram helps.

Based on eBay prices, $300-$350.

 

[nightside]

It just seems silly to read and watch some of these reviews and I keep hearing "If you have a 970, you probably shouldn't sell it and get a 480." but I hear nothing of if you have a 660 GTX and $250, which card should you buy and what are the increases you will see.

I have a 6850,and this card seems perfect for me (unless the 1060 has a similar price point)

 

[Delusibeta]

1080 reviews: "great card, reference cooler's crap, wait for AIB versions"

Week later, 1070 reviews: "great card, reference cooler's crap, wait for AIB versions"

Couple of weeks later, RX 480 reviews: "great card, reference cooler's crap, wait for AIB versions"

Probably next week, 1060 reviews: "great card, reference cooler's crap, wait for AIB versions"

I'm greatful that I'm not planning on building my PC until October. :lol

 

[element]

I would a absolutely sell a 970 and get a 480 for the vram alone. As long as you can get at least $200 for the 970. Especially an aftermarket 480 if they do end up clocking well.

Where are people reselling hardware like that? ebay? craigslist?

 

[chaosblade]

It just seems silly to read and watch some of these reviews and I keep hearing "If you have a 970, you probably shouldn't sell it and get a 480." but I hear nothing of if you have a 660 GTX and $250, which card should you buy and what are the increases you will see.

It is just painful to hear in this benchmark it is 4% slower than X, but 2% faster than Y. Who cares because people aren't going to buy an 480 if they already own those cards that benchmark close to it.

You could use those as a basis to see where the upgrade would put you though.

660 vs 970
660 vs 390

And the 480 would be equal to or slightly better than those two right now. And with this being a brand new card drivers will inevitably provide some performance increases, but who knows how much.

 

[TransTrender]

Whelp I was hoping the 480 was going to be better at 1440P so it looks like I'll have to get the 1070.

 

[Aztechnology]

I wish I had that patience. I had a 6gb 780 3 years ago that I imagine would have served me well til now. On second thought, holding onto shit that long = little to no resale value. I'm basically on a rental program when it comes to gpus, and technology and general. Or, hopefully, buy low, and sell for what you bought it for or at least greater than 2/3 of what you bought it for.

That's where I'm at. But remember most people are far too lazy for constant upkeep. The vast majority of people I know on PC gaming do not sell their old computer hardware at all, which blows my mind. I usually buy something hold it for a few years and then sell to upgrade. It really is as you say a rental program. I bought two 770's about 7 months prior to the 970 launch and sold them right before the 970 launch for a loss of like $30 per card on Amazon. It was really nice. Then I sold my 4670k, motherboard , PSU and case that I had been using for two years and used it to fund my 5820k build. I really only lost about $200 total on that trade upgrade too. I'm quite invested in upkeep of my hobby and the best current bang for buck options too and search out the best deals as opposed to my buddies who just sit on their hardware for long periods of time. I know that I'm the exception though, not the rule.

 

[slapnuts]

Well at default clocks on all Dx12 games is where the Rx 480 shines. Some review sites are ignoring this fact and frankly, the Dx12 results are most important. The Rx 480 Reference card when overclocked even furthers the performance vs older cards as you can see below. These are 1080p but 1440p results are about the same

Also, when the 6+8 pin cards come out, those cards get 1500mhz+ with acceptable fan speed and heat. So these reference cards are not really showing what the Rx 480 was built to do, which is OC nicely with great perf results. We'll see this shortly once the AIB partners start release their cards.

 

[Caffeine]

I caved on a 390 I found

 

[belushy]

I'm not too knowledgeable on the market, but companies like MSI will create their own version of this card, correct? How much more would those normally be, or should I just dive in on the MSI one that is currently out?

 

[DonMigs85]

I'm not too knowledgeable on the market, but companies like MSI will create their own version of this card, correct? How much more would those normally be, or should I just dive in on the MSI one that is currently out?

The ones with custom open coolers should run cooler and quieter and have better overclocking headroom, but the ones out now are fine otherwise.

 

[rrs]

Whelp I was hoping the 480 was going to be better at 1440P so it looks like I'll have to get the 1070.

a 1070 is also nearly double the MSRP, though. The 1060 might be more of the card you are looking for when it's annouced next week, if it fills the $300 market.

 

[railven]

This card is not for me, but I do admit at one point the overclocking hype almost got me.

Makes me weary of what Vega has in store. Polaris 10 is smaller than GP104. But it uses almost the same amount of power and ends up being almost 80% slower @1080p.

That is a huge hill to climb. Vega is going to have efficiency out the ying-yang to even compete with GP104 let alone big Pascal.

I don't think anyone was expecting that power consumption. At this point, it's cheaper to get GTX 1070 with a mild OC. Get to around 95% of CFX 480, less power, less heat, and no multi-GPU headaches.

AMD is in for hard times on the higher end, and if GP106 competes, price goes out the window too.

 

[wachie]

snip

Since you are intentionally being thick, let me spell how the math works

HITMAN	DX11	DX12	
480	64	67
980	59	58
480 perf gain versus 980 in DX12=7%		

ROTR			
480	52	52
980	65	48
480 perf gain versus 980 in DX12=28%

The findings are consisten in other sites too. The breakdown of overall performance, 480 falls in between 970 and 980. In DX12, it squeezes out the 980.

http://www.comptoir-hardware.com/articles/cartes-graphiques/31854-test-radeon-rx480.html?start=15

Well at default clocks on all Dx12 games is where the Rx 480 shines. Some review sites are ignoring this fact and frankly, the Dx12 results are most important. The Rx 480 Reference card when overclocked even furthers the performance vs older cards as you can see below. These are 1080p but 1440p results are about the same

Also, when the 6+8 pin cards come out, those cards get 1500mhz+ with acceptable fan speed and heat. So these reference cards are not really showing what the Rx 480 was built to do, which is OC nicely with great perf results. We'll see this shortly once the AIB partners start release their cards.

https://s31.postimg.org/wga4snrm3/untitled_1.png[IMG]

[IMG]https://s31.postimg.org/z1hhy80a3/untitled_4.png[IMG]

[IMG]https://s31.postimg.org/wlfokdi7f/untitled_31.png[IMG]

[IMG]https://s31.postimg.org/j5x98nz3f/untitled_34.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
You probably haven't heard that people will have to wait till 2018/19 for DX12 gains for AMD to show up.

 

[lensoftruth]

When did the term AIB come about? Never heard this before and I've been PC gaming since '84.

Also, why is reference used in a negative way? For Audio and Video it is the highest standard.

 

[joecanada]

a 1070 is also nearly double the MSRP, though. The 1060 might be more of the card you are looking for when it's annouced next week, if it fills the $300 market.

All the 480 vs 1070 talk , It's a bit akin to saying " I had hoped the civic was a bit faster I guess it's Audi a4 for me" but it's all good for whatever your needs are you should go.

480 is looking fantastic to me instead of a 970

 

[wachie]

When did the term AIB come about? Never heard this before and I've been PC gaming since '84.

Also, why is reference used in a negative way? For Audio and Video it is the highest standard.

Add in Board partner. It's been around for a quite a few years, especially if you followed GPU and rumours.

Reference is the bare minimum cooling solution while the AIB partners do some exotic custom designs with an added premium for their versions.

 

[Aztechnology]

a 1070 is also nearly double the MSRP, though. The 1060 might be more of the card you are looking for when it's annouced next week, if it fills the $300 market.

The 1060 will be a 1080p card as well is my bet. The 1070 is a 1440p card because it requires that much power to do 1440p at higher settings and get 60+fps. Honestly I have a great 1440p 144hz monitor and it looks just fine at 1080p for most newer games to me. If I was absolutely set on doing 1440p I'd go for the 1070 but as it is I care more about performance at 1080 and utilizing the highest framerate I can get on my monitor. Usually I'm in the 60+ fps range for my games on a 970 now so I'm pretty happy jumping to the 480 as a stopgap measure for now to use the Free-sync etc until the prices drop or new cards come out.

 

[chaosblade]

I think I've seen "AIB" used standalone more around this card launch than I've ever seen it previously, but I assume that's just on me not noticing before. Any GPU is an "AIB." Seeing "AIB version" makes me chuckle and think "as opposed to the integrated version?"

 

[lensoftruth]

Add in Board partner. It's been around for a quite a few years, especially if you followed GPU and rumours.

Reference is the bare minimum cooling solution while the AIB partners do some exotic custom designs with an added premium for their versions.

AIB suggests the board is identical and the cooling solution is different?

The use of reference is great marketing shite then, as I assumed it meant it was up to the best standards.

Gaming eh?

 

[Cerity]

I just think it's dudes using the term more as we're seeing it more in industry reports lol. The term has been around for awhile but it's definitely being used more recently.

 

[rrs]

The 1060 will be a 1080p card as well is my bet.

yeah, nvidia could leave a big market hole again and seeing how many people they can attract to higher margin cards

AIB suggests the board is identical and the cooling solution is different?

The use of reference is great marketing shite then, as I assumed it meant it was up to the best standards.

Gaming eh?

bingo, the thrist for faster and better is a big money making opportunity

 

[lensoftruth]

I just think it's dudes using the term more as we're seeing it more in industry reports lol. The term has been around for awhile but it's definitely being used more recently.

Add In Board just sounds odd though. I mean a graphics card is an Add In Board by definition

 

[napata]

Since you are intentionally being thick, let me spell how the math works

ROTR			
480	52	52
980	65	48
480 perf gain versus 980 in DX12=28%

There's something wrong with these results. Most places have the 980 ahead of the 480 in ROTR DX12. Even the link you provided shows this.

 

[Cerity]

Add In Board just sounds odd though. I mean a graphics card is an Add In Board by definition

Yeah, it's meant to be AIB Partners but I guess it's easier to drop the partners bit.

They'll always be 3rd party vendors to me.

 

[data]

Lol, an online pc store in my country has the R9 390 for €289

the RX 480 8GB is €329


AMD please

 

[Sinistral]

Yeah, it's meant to be AIB Partners but I guess it's easier to drop the partners bit.

They'll always be 3rd party vendors to me.

It's still stock vs custom internally for me, and I have to catch myself and correct it to Ref vs. AIB...

 

[Aztechnology]

yeah, nvidia could leave a big market hole again and seeing how many people they can attract to higher margin cards

I think that's why they are so reluctant to talk about the 1060. I posit they were trying to see how many people they could woo over to 1070 from the previous $200-300 tier people as there was no competition any boy oh boy were people thirsty. Then AMD announced the 480 and honestly it's an amazingly priced, performing and supplied card with a lot of benefits coming from DX12 and future console titles being better optimized for the GCN architecture as we've seen with a lot of "exclusive" Microsoft titles. Right now Nvidia has pure performance advantage but they are leaving a market sector dark because they were hoping people would be tempted up like you said. I think it's just a bit too pricey though for most people on the 1070. So that leaves their 970 which isn't being produced anymore and then their new 1060 which they are worried might cannibalize their sales and weren't planning to release at the $200 price range. i think they had planned $300/350 founders for 970-980 performance with the new 16nm process and features for entry level VR etc. Just like AMD has done. It was probably supposed to take their previous 970 position for new budget minded consumers and people jumping from older bang for buck cards like the 660ti and such.

It's going to be really interesting to see what Nvidia does now with their 1060. If they had really good news to announce I think they would have already done it. I think at this point they're working on marketing stuff to convince buyers than the 1060 compares favorably to the 480 even at a higher price point.

 

[Fermbiz]

I picked up the XFX Radeon RX 480 at Microcenter. Cant wait to try it out.

 

[DPB]

What is this? Does this mean AMD's GCN improvements have fixed some of their driver overhead?

It doesn't look like it, since according to this review performance still drops off much more than Nvidia cards when using a slower CPU like a locked i5 or i3.

 

[wachie]

There's something wrong with these results. Most places have the 980 ahead of the 480 in ROTR DX12. Even the link you provided shows this.

HC doesn't seem to use the built-in benchmark and have their own script.

Rise of the Tomb Raider has both DX11 and DX12 API paths and incorporates a completely pointless built-in benchmark sequence.

The benchmark run we use is within the Soviet Installation level where we start in at about the midpoint, run through a warehouse with some burning its and then finish inside a fenced-in area during a snowstorm.

and

For DX12 many of these same metrics can be utilized through a simple program called PresentMon. Not only does this program have the capability to log frame times at various stages throughout the rendering pipeline but it also grants a slightly more detailed look into how certain API and external elements can slow down rendering times.

Since PresentMon throws out massive amounts of frametime data, we have decided to distill the information down into slightly more easy-to-understand graphs. Within them, we have taken several thousand datapoints (in some cases tens of thousands), converted the frametime milliseconds over the course of each benchmark run to frames per second and then graphed the results. This gives us a straightforward framerate over time graph. Meanwhile the typical bar graph averages out every data point as its presented.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I'll probably be buying one eventually. My old gtx 560 just died on me. Although I'll probably wait a bit to see how the wind blows. They're launching a new cpu/mobo by the end of the year too right? I'd like to upgrade a couple pieces so I might wait to see how those turn out.

 

[TransTrender]

a 1070 is also nearly double the MSRP, though. The 1060 might be more of the card you are looking for when it's annouced next week, if it fills the $300 market.

Don't really care about the MSRP overall I'm just looking at it knowing I'm not spending 1080 money and need something that runs well enough at 1440P and has some legs. The performance gap at 1440P between the 480 and the 1070 is too large to ignore. Also, never in my life has a videocard in the "1060" segment ever satisfy my needs and I don't think this time it will be any different.

 

[Aztechnology]

Don't really care about the MSRP overall I'm just looking at it knowing I'm not spending 1080 money and need something that runs well enough at 1440P and has some legs. The performance gap at 1440P between the 480 and the 1070 is too large to ignore. Also, never in my life has a videocard in the "1060" segment ever satisfy my needs and I don't think this time it will be any different.

Cool, than obviously this card is not for you. Wait for the 490 or go with the 1070. Go with your needs.

 

[Miker]

I think that's why they are so reluctant to talk about the 1060. I posit they were trying to see how many people they could woo over to 1070 from the previous $200-300 tier people as there was no competition any boy oh boy were people thirsty. Then AMD announced the 480 and honestly it's an amazingly priced, performing and supplied card with a lot of benefits coming from DX12 and future console titles being better optimized for the GCN architecture as we've seen with a lot of "exclusive" Microsoft titles. Right now Nvidia has pure performance advantage but they are leaving a market sector dark because they were hoping people would be tempted up like you said. I think it's just a bit too pricey though for most people on the 1070. So that leaves their 970 which isn't being produced anymore and then their new 1060 which they are worried might cannibalize their sales and weren't planning to release at the $200 price range. i think they had planned $300/350 founders for 970-980 performance with the new 16nm process and features for entry level VR etc. Just like AMD has done. It was probably supposed to take their previous 970 position for new budget minded consumers and people jumping from older bang for buck cards like the 660ti and such.

It's going to be really interesting to see what Nvidia does now with their 1060. If they had really good news to announce I think they would have already done it. I think at this point they're working on marketing stuff to convince buyers than the 1060 compares favorably to the 480 even at a higher price point.

I'm definitely one of those people who bit on the 1070 because the 1060 announcement still hasn't come. It doesn't hurt that the 1070 is still a great bang for buck card in its higher price bracket, either.

Another point regarding more expensive nVidia cards is that their software support - not just raw driver performance - seems to be better than AMD's. I'm talking about stuff like Geforce experience, Shadowplay, DSR (I know AMD has VSR, but nVidia implemented it first), driver-level SGSSAA and HBAO injection, and stuff like Ansel coming down the line. Stuff that I didn't think I would really need, but after 4 years on the team red (coming from a 7850!), it's stuff that I would definitely appreciate in a new GPU. Similarly, people who are already on team green might miss these features when switching to AMD and take that into account when looking at a, say, $50 difference.

 

[icecold1983]

What do you mean by "forward looking and robust"?

theres fewer limitations on what developers can do with the gpu

 

[Megabat]

It doesn't look like it, since according to this review performance still drops off much more than Nvidia cards when using a slower CPU like a locked i5 or i3.

That really sucks. Well, continues to suck. You could build a fantastic system for ~$600 now - i3-6100, 16GB DDR4, 240GB SSD + 1TB HDD, RX 480 - and be let down by sub-par DX11 drivers.

I was very excited when I saw benchmarks this morning. I was also glad to hear the reference board isn't bad (I like reference boards for their heat management). The breaking-PCIe-spec thing, though? That's a dealbreaker.

 

[SneakyStephan]

DX11 cpu overhead will continue to outweigh any dx12 async advantage for the lifetime of these gpus.

Even more so for the price bracket the rx480 is aimed at, these are people with budget builds, not 300 dollar cpus

If this wasn't an amd vs nvidia scenario then noone would contest the above.


Current dx11 pc game library outnumber dx12 games 10.000 to one, but I guess for amd owners playing games from the past few years is for nerds.

A large majority of releases in the next few years will continue to be dx11


The strawman pc gamer put forth by some people in here:
-doesn't play cpu intensive games (so doesn't like pc exclusives , mmos or open world games guess)
-has a kickass cpu but had no money left for a gpu
-is not interested in playing that large majority of dx11 games in the coming years or how those perform
-is not interested in how the entire pc gaming backlog performs
-does not give a hoot about frame pacing


I don't believe this is representative of the average pc gamer at all.

 

[Boss Mog]

A lot of people in here act as if the GTX 1060 doesn't exist. It does exist and it'll be out in two weeks so if you're in the market for a card around $250, it would probably be best to wait for the GTX 1060 reviews to decide between the two cards.